An idea on how to get new players to stay! (Kim, MA or FPC i'd like some input)

[InDaHouse]

Lets start with the topic:

MA/FPC say they have an issue getting new players to stick with game which is why they have not started advertising yet.


Here's my Theory:

Beacon missions have brought yet MORE new guns and armours (L) & Unlimited.... This inturn will affect price's of guns and armours currently in game, but will create an quick influx of cash by people trying to buy these new items or by people wanting to do beacons to loot them.

This to me is MA/FPC's downfall and what is IMO killing our beautiful game, it seems like always a quick fix of cash with no longterm plan being looked at, take FPC tital deeds - They are giving away 50% of thier profits so they can score a cool $6 million, if you need money why would you give away half of your income.....


My possible sollution:
(i'd like feedback from Kim or someone with some serious punch at HQ)

Re-introduce unlimited guns and armours back into loot but not like pre gold days, set the number dropped in a ratio based on a growing player base.

Say:

1x ML-35 can be looted for every 500 new players joining game (just an example)
1x Supremacy Set can be looted every 2000 new players

I for one would love to spend my peds knowing I stand a chance to loot the great stuff instead of playing the usualy monopoly of me vs the ubers when events come round to try and loot something nice, i'd happily grind Atrax know that the "Extremelly Rare" thats shown on Entropedia does mean i COULD actually loot it and not that its a myth and they have just not made the "never again to be looted option".

What made me come up with this crazy idea you might ask?

Well back when i started things were busier and we never had (L) weapons or armours I used a Ep-40 Merc and then upgraded to a a Karma Killer laser pistol I used these guns even tho I only had like 2.0 hit ability on them, my theory is that I must have been paying more into loot pool back then due to being un eco but we all must have been like this unless we had huge skills making us more eco on our weapons.

This idea of bringing us back to using the UL and maybe even phasing out the (L) even if only from loots and leave crafted (L) for reasons i'll add below would also bring value back to our skills and and make things much more atractive to new players.

Picture the ad:

Entropia Universe

Multi planetary game where anything IS actually possible!

Current ad would be:

Entropia Universe

Multi planetary game where anything could be possible!

Which is more attractive? Does not take a rocket scientist to see...


Ok reason for phasing out (L) from just loot and not from crafting:

As I see it just now most of the (L) guns crafted have similar or equivelents in loots, and 9 out of 10 times the looted version is cheaper to get hold of due to its drop rate or in some case's the insane cost to make the crafted versions. If we only have (L) crafted then this means if i'm only say lvl 20 laser pistol I could use Karma Killer if I wish but i'll not be eco, but I could buy a P5a (L) which i'll almost be maxed on (maxes lvl 21), this makes me more eco which we can agree is good. But the fact that the P5a is crafted and there is no looted versions availible would mean the MU on the gun can grow and in turn the MU on the items used to craft it will grow too, which IMO would balance out any loss in MU by not looting (L) guns in loot.

This would also make crafting more atractable again to a wider range of people and with IMO an increase in the use of crafted (L) guns and/or armours will see an increase in Ore and Enmatter price's which will also see an increase in the attraction to mining.


Possible down falls I can see myself with my theory and idea's:

The value of some people's items either guns or armours or even faps might come down but the way the game is going just now they are coming down fast anyway!

Why will this make ppl stay, well i'm sure if the chance to loot these cool uber items is there and being advertised to new players they will come spend money and hopefull get hooked trying to loot a full set of something like I did when I first started i'd happily give $20 per week again with a chance to loot Supremecy, brining them in and getting them to spend money to loot this stuff will in turn increase our lootpools and with the lower amounts of (L) making us go back to UL we will also fill the pools, skill price's will rise making everything much more rewarding even if you do have a bad loot run!

Bring back something thats attractive to new players and not just a quick fix big publicity stunt like selling Crystal Palace, Medusa Island, giving away half your profits to title deeds owners. The more quick fix easy cash options you bring MA/FPC the more of your profit you give away! How much do you lose from Buzz owning Crystal Palace cos as much as he is an active player i'm sure he still makes enough from CP to make withdrals each month, same with Medusa many of the investors will be active but I bet they make withdrawls, also your title deed holders I bet alot more of this batch of players ONLY make withdrawls....

 

[InDaHouse]

P.s. It would be intresting to see some kind of atmospheric disturbance or pressure that cause's each planet's weapons maybe armours and faps too, to only be used within that planet? Giving all new comers to those planets a similar fighting chance to loot that planets cools stuff instead of say a calypsian going to Arkadia looting UL gun that the Arkadian new comers are months or years from getting to kill, then taking it back to Calypso never to return to Arkadia again.

Just an idea again

 

[Alan Mo]

I can agree on most of this.

But i can see how players that have bought UL weapons for one planet would get pissed if they couldnt use it on another. And in one suggestion maybe a TT item that you must buy and that decays well you use off world items on certain planets.

I wouldnt mind if the tt value was reasonable as i have full UL hunting gear. And i do like to visit other planets, but my home world is Calypso.

2pecs

Alan Mo

 

[InDaHouse]

A friend just said to me he is selling all tiems and storage and taking a year or more break to see how things go, what kept him depositing was the chance to own an expensive item, now all hopes are gone he says have has no faith anymore.

Older players need faith and desire, new players need the challenge and oppertunity!

 

[Miss Hilly]

A friend just said to me he is selling all tiems and storage and taking a year or more break to see how things go, what kept him depositing was the chance to own an expensive item, now all hopes are gone he says have has no faith anymore.

Older players need faith and desire, new players need the challenge and oppertunity!

i agree with all your propositions so far, i am a newbie, only in game for two yrs buy already i am questioning whether it is worth it to stay in, to know that there is a chance of looting stuff that you otherwise have no chance of accruing is more of an incentive to me than the lands deeds ever were.

 

[Dinivan]

how could you possibly think this would make new players stay? the problem is not the loot. the loot system is the only thing eu does right (everyone staying are here because of it - just imagine playing eu without real money involved...) the problem is killing stuff in eu is plain boring. make it less repetetive and more fun and you'll see more people here.

 

[Sibolovin]

Some good ideas, take as a bump for devs

 

[InDaHouse]

how could you possibly think this would make new players stay? the problem is not the loot. the loot system is the only thing eu does right (everyone staying are here because of it - just imagine playing eu without real money involved...) the problem is killing stuff in eu is plain boring. make it less repetetive and more fun and you'll see more people here.

Did you even read my post did anywhere in it I complain about the loot system???

The problem with the loot system is without a higher lvl of players pumping in, less and less of us get steady returns back from it, this is its flaw but i'm happy with how it works only want for the company behind it to feed it with players that want to stay and want to feed the system!

More players = more loot, more loot = more staying.

My Idea is how they can get players to stay and pay! The product needs to be attractive for ppl to pay, they just need to look at EA's Fifa 2012 and what they introduced this year to make more money!

 

[Profit]

This would go some way to adding incentive, to some degree.
But the biggest reason people don't stay, is the cost to play .vs. the enjoyment. EU isn't fun, it's only plus is the RCE, but no fun + extreme expense = tiny, miniscule niche market.

EU will NEVER have a big player base. Never has, never will.
Ever.

 

[InDaHouse]

This would go some way to adding incentive, to some degree.
But the biggest reason people don't stay, is the cost to play .vs. the enjoyment. EU isn't fun, it's only plus is the RCE, but no fun + extreme expense = tiny, miniscule niche market.

EU will NEVER have a big player base. Never has, never will.
Ever.

But people agree we need incentive to play this expensive RCE as I said i'd happily go back to $80-100 per month as I can afford this and at similar lvl's below me you can play all the way down to $10-15 per month depending on what your doing.

The game in current form offers no incentive to me anymore and i'm reluctant to deposit, as the dwindeling player base is creating bigger loot swings which i really dont like!

P.s. I'd like to add i've never made a withdrawl and i've had my fair share of good loots, I dont want a 100k ATH as much as i'd love it i'll setlle with lots more 1k-10k's being shared round.

 

[combo22]

This would go some way to adding incentive, to some degree.
But the biggest reason people don't stay, is the cost to play .vs. the enjoyment. EU isn't fun, it's only plus is the RCE, but no fun + extreme expense = tiny, miniscule niche market.

EU will NEVER have a big player base. Never has, never will.
Ever.

... as long as MA manage it.

EU=RCE, but every time you ask something about loot they answer that EU is dynamic and they can't tell more about, so basically is like you put your money in a bank and when you ask what's going on they will tell you it's dynamic, maybe you'll get something at the end of the month or maybe not.

EU is complicated to start, you can't give it a try without a small deposit, non-depositors are the only new players that stay for long(they don't add a real value to the game).

Trying to get better will only get you higher costs, see here:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?224739-Smilgs-hunting-log&highlight=girts
And I know he's not the only one, had the same losses when I was actively hunting.

Losing 1k$/month in a game for a whole year is not 'fun' for most of us.

 

[remontoire]

I really don't see why you think that advertising the ability to loot items people (new players) would have no use for years of game time would make them stay. The latest item introductions, both in waves and beacons and otherwise, have all been for the big masses of mid to upper-mid level players. This make sense - they are the ones carrying most of the load.

It is not as if new players could actually hunt the mobs that have the items you fantasize about as "extremely rare".

 

[mastermesh]

Say:
1x ML-35 can be looted for every 500 new players joining game (just an example)
1x Supremacy Set can be looted every 2000 new players

and... what would keep 1000 players from just making new avatars to force the system to think there are 2000 new players when the n00bs are really just alts?

 

[STYRM]

I remember the time when you actually could loot stuff like armour and guns just by hunting for a while.. hunting fungoids for a day or two and get a boar helmet and thighs, big exa and get vigi helmets.. ep-40s from armax.. mk2s from drones.. all that is no more and it sucks..

these days when something new drops its mostly from event mobs, usually with crasy hp and dmg so only big teams with ubers have a chance at those.

MA has done the whole loot experience kinda stupid in alot of things.. always when new items is about to drop MA shower us for a limited time then nothing.. if they changed this more of us would probably have more fun trying to get the item and not just give up after a little while.

 

[InDaHouse]

and... what would keep 1000 players from just making new avatars to force the system to think there are 2000 new players when the n00bs are really just alts?

Because if 1000 avatars all made a new avatar then the system would know that there is only 1000 new players and not 2000 .

Seriously why pick flaws, I think ppl like you are who work at MA/FPC just now, unable to see the whole picture.

MA have the ability to track multiple's, they could easily implement some parrameter where as each new avatar must have say $20-$50 of depo's before they are counted in the maths to help drop a new item.

The idea on the whole is to attract new players and bring back the intrest of the MANY older players that are inactive or like me refusing to deposit while things are as is and hopefully give incentive to new players that they will stand a chance of looting some stuff as they grow, it never took me long to be able to hunt Atrax youngs when i first started lets take Bear armour as example:

Bear Arms - Bristlehog
Bear Feet - Argonaut
Bear Gloves - Gradivore
Bear Harness - Armax Bull or Drone
Bear Helmet - SEG - might have to buy this part
Bear Shins - Kingfisher or Oculus - might need to buy this also
Bear Thighs - Armax Bull

So pretty low easy to kill say 50-1.50 ped per kill mobs for most of the parts.

 

[trance]

I'm full agree, that some nice UL items would be cool for the game. Maybe it would help me to depo more. But at the moment i depo as less as i can. I really miss to loot some UL items. L is cool, but it also needs a few of UL items in loot. Not noobish, usless items. It needs some goodies from time to time in loot!

 

[Teiwaz Storm]

Say:

1x ML-35 can be looted for every 500 new players joining game (just an example)
1x Supremacy Set can be looted every 2000 new players

It might look appealing at first but I do not agree that it is good idea.

This would lead to abuse of multiple accounts.
Instead 'new players', it could be new players who graduated and deposited at least X amount of PEDs' and it makes more sense.

If such thing would be implemented, better if MA balance it right to not piss old players who deposited loads of PEDs into game to buy such high end items!
After all those are people who support game more than few new players who can stick or not.

 

[Fifth]

No doubt, everyone would be happy to loot cool and useful UL items now and then.
Everyone would be even happier if we could know for certain that certain mobs can drop an uber UL gun or armor part. Even if it was very rare, even if the chances were close to zero.

On the other hand, if MA would overuse this, it's the same as printing more money - it would simply cause inflation, the prices of all (previously) rare stuff would go down the toilet. When rare becomes ordinary it's not that desirable any more.

I'm not saying the idea is bad, just that there's no magic medicine that would fix all the problems.


If we look at the big picture, all games are part of entertainment industry. The opposite of entertainment is boring, repetitive. For the game developer it all boils down to being creative and providing new features to keep people interested.

The ultimate, ideal game world is dynamic. Not in the sense of "we keep changing stuff here", dynamic by itself.

For example, hunters in a certain area have been overhunting certain birds
-> insects in that area will multiply and eat up all the vegetation
-> river that flows through the area dries up
-> the downstream village of bushmen moves over to the neighbouring area
-> etc etc ... that kind of dynamic.​

Regretfully all our game engines are still years away from that level of complexity.
Meanwhile, the next best option is to use human creativity - give new worlds for new groups of designers and programmers with fresh new ideas. That's exactly what MA is doing. If anything could really work out, this system will.
Just give it a time, the train is on the right track but those things don't happen overnight.

 

[sky west]

I think EU is unique in the sense that no other MMO has so much emphasis on the loot. It's all about the loot, the amount of loot you get, what makes up the loot, how much the loot costs and what it's worth. And the funny thing is, this has absolutely nothing to do with the game what so ever, or..... maybe this is the game?

 

[Sn0wst0rm]

Getting people to stay is a tough one. A lot of new players are probably tempted by the fact its passed off a free to download/play game but with the real ecconomy. Then they soon see how expensive it is to play for real.

Its nothing to do with boredom with the game its the real cost of being able to play the game properly. Those who get bored either have enough money to blow on everything or simply dont have enough to do what they desire.

To be frank, I think the only people this game is aimed at is people with copious amounts of spare money to invest and gambling addicts.

 

[STYRM]

To be frank, I think the only people this game is aimed at is people with copious amounts of spare money to invest and gambling addicts.

they are called grown ups.. the ppl who work and make money irl.

 

[Bjorn|MindArk]

There are several factual errors and misconceptions in the first post which I would like to clear up so to avoid unrealistic opinions forming.

MA/FPC say they have an issue getting new players to stick with game which is why they have not started advertising yet.

It is not entirely accurate when you state that "they have not started advertising yet".

MindArk has already begun several promotional campaigns this year, as I explained in a quick announcement on Entropia Forum-

MindArk's Current & Upcoming Marketing Efforts

It is true however that MindArk plans to gradually increase its marketing spending and efforts as the year progresses, especially once the overhaul of the Genesis new arrivals area and improvements to the overall new player experience are completed.

Mr. Timkrans also discussed this plan in his State of the Universe Address.

This to me is MA/FPC's downfall and what is IMO killing our beautiful game, it seems like always a quick fix of cash with no longterm plan being looked at,

We are actually in the process of conducting online surveys with both existing and former participants to identify the major complaints about the Entropia Universe experience. Based on the results received so far, the possibility of looting rare and valuable unlimited items was not one of the primary reasons for players leaving the game. In fact, it was not even in the top ten reasons given.

take FPC tital deeds - They are giving away 50% of thier profits so they can score a cool $6 million, if you need money why would you give away half of your income.....

Actually, the revenue share is 50% of the Planet Partner 50% gross revenue, so only 25% of the revenue generated on Planet Calypso is being shared.

My possible sollution:
(i'd like feedback from Kim or someone with some serious punch at HQ)

Re-introduce unlimited guns and armours back into loot but not like pre gold days, set the number dropped in a ratio based on a growing player base.

Say:

1x ML-35 can be looted for every 500 new players joining game (just an example)
1x Supremacy Set can be looted every 2000 new players

The system is already balanced based on population and activity.
Unlimited items are a very important part of the Entropia Universe economy, and can still be looted- including the items you mention.

 

[wizzszz]

1x ML-35 can be looted for every 500 new players joining game (just an example)
1x Supremacy Set can be looted every 2000 new players

The system already works like this, just more like
1x ML-35 for every 50000 new players
1x Supremacy Set for every 200000 new players


There is an obvious problem with this though, as 90% of the player accounts are dead or fake accounts, and if players knew they could make the system drop good stuff they'd create even more fake account.

Maybe if MA weeds out these false accounts somehow (inactivity alone won't work, obviously), then we face the next problem: The "real" playerbase is not growing, and that's why the formula produces zero new ML-35 drops and zero supremacy drops.

And even if we overcome this somehow, the chances for an occasional hunter to loot them is minimal, compared to people hunting pretty much 24/7 - which means the stuff (again) is looted by ubers.

I think it is pretty obvious why this won't work.


/Edit:
Should read all posts before posting - looks like Bjorn (MA needs to buy you swedish keyboards? Shouldn't it be Bjørn?!? Or Björn???) already confirmed what i said:

The system is already balanced based on population and activity.
Unlimited items are a very important part of the Entropia Universe economy, and can still be looted- including the items you mention.

 

[sky west]

There are several factual errors and misconceptions in the first post which I would like to clear up so to avoid unrealistic opinions forming.

Can't have that now can we.

Forum rule 8.2: Expressing Unrealistic Opinions

 

[Infinity01]

We are actually in the process of conducting online surveys with both existing and former participants to identify the major complaints about the Entropia Universe experience. Based on the results received so far, the possibility of looting rare and valuable unlimited items was not one of the primary reasons for players leaving the game. In fact, it was not even in the top ten reasons given.

Would you mind giving us the top 10 reasons!
We'd like to have some facts instead of speculations...
Thank you for your response!

 

[sid]

I think what is needed is an immersive story line - one where new players are brought right into it from the moment they step foot on Calypso. One that can keep them interested for a few days without feeling pressured to deposit until they get used to and comfortable with the Entropia environment.

At the moment, I think that new players don't get much sense of entertainment before they are unable to do much except sweating. If they enjoyed their first experiences more from the outset, I guess they would be more interested in staying longer.

 

[wizzszz]

Would you mind giving us the top 10 reasons!
We'd like to have some facts instead of speculations...
Thank you for your response!

I'll hazard a guess:

#1-#9 Loot sucks so much, i couldn't afford to play even if i sell my grandma.
#10 Support is a joke, no other company cares so little about their customers.


A survey, Bjorn?

A survey?

Are you being serious?



A goddamn survey????

Just read this forum a bit and you won't need no stinking survey!!!!!!

People try to tell you everyday what the hell is wrong with EU, right here and on pretty much every other forum! And you make a survey...

 

[JoseMTacoral]

how could you possibly think this would make new players stay? the problem is not the loot. the loot system is the only thing eu does right (everyone staying are here because of it - just imagine playing eu without real money involved...) the problem is killing stuff in eu is plain boring. make it less repetetive and more fun and you'll see more people here.

Yes!!! i´m agree with that! Do a mission means repeating over and over again, hundreds of times, the same action. There are no surprises. The same mob always react in the same way. What's worse is that the best way to increase the chances of getting good loot are just doing the same all the time. The same mob, on the same server for hours. If the mob has many HP, you can chat while autoclic take control of your weapon. The old beacons added, at that time, some magic to mining, hunting should have something similar: a beacon for hunters. From time to time, any player of any level can get the chance to do something with their friends for fun and report some extra peds.

 

[sky west]

People try to tell you everyday what the hell is wrong with EU, right here and on pretty much every other forum! And you make a survey...

I'm sure they'll take it into consideration with their next survey.

'Where do you feel most comfortable ranting about EU?'
A) This survey
B) Calypso Forum
C) Pretty much every other forum
D) All of the above

 

[Profit]

they are called grown ups.. the ppl who work and make money irl.

I know plenty of working adults who cannot afford $100's/month for a computer game. Infact, MOST people I know laugh at me for spending so much here.
I, myself, have higher than average income in my country and a larger proportion of disposable income than most and yet I find it incredibly hard to justify depositing anything in EU anymore.

I have to agree with the fact that the repetitive mindless gameplay of EU is the main factor. If at least EU was fun outside of the social aspects, maybe I could justify my deposits. But mindless grinding for hundreds a month with the prospect of ever-increasing expense, is just insane.

I remember Marco talking about FPS style hunting, with crouching, etc... these prospects sounded like they could add more value than ANYTHING done in the last 2 years. Yet here we are - same old target, auto, loot... target, auto, no-loot... equip, drop, no-loot... click, wait, no-loot.
*yawn*