30-45% return

[ermik]

If you have deposited 40k usd in-game for example in some years there will probably simply be little to nothing left of it. It eats and eats. Statements claiming everyone gets 90% return are total BS. Maybe 90% of all deposits are returned to the playerbase in general and what's withdrawn won't be recycled at all.

tt returns on cycled tt tend to be 90% if you play with gear and skills efficient for the mob you choose.

deposits have nothing to do with returns.

if you cycle 100 ped ( as an example to make calculation so easy anyone can see the logic )
you will on average come back with 90 ped in tt, maybe 85% i you use non eco gear.

that leaves you with 90 ped left.

if you repeat this 100 times, you will still have a 90% return on avg, but the total loss is 1000 ped in tt

the part where entropia universe becomes a challenge is to spend as little MU as possible on the cycling part, while making sure you sell your loot at the highest possible MU. only then can the gap between your 85-90% tt returns be filled.

also, the hp of your mob determines how soon ( or how much peds you need to cycle ) you will reach the 85-90% tt avg return.

i usually see the 90% tt in my graphs after around 1000 mobs of the same kind killed.

so, in order to not freak out and whine while hunting proterons, you better make sure you can afford killing atleast 1000 of them, otherwise just dont hunt them cause that would be a gamble and you may end up broke before you have a chance to make the mob reach payout zone.

 

[Luckycharm]

tt returns on cycled tt tend to be 90% if you play with gear and skills efficient for the mob you choose.

deposits have nothing to do with returns.

Well I kinda assumed you would have figured out I it was about cycling after depositing. Would I mention depositing as in putting 400k ped on the card to buy things with it or just let it sit you think? Seriously what makes you thnk that?

I think a 1-day player understands the peds need to be burned...


You can also repeat all you want every single avatar's return will never be 90% as you quote. All avatars are different regardless of what some MA official stated. It's total nonsense. For example look at some noob-ATH's there already you theory goes wrong. That's not 90% return already.

 

[Az Bloodz]

You can also repeat all you want every single avatar's return will never be 90% as you quote. All avatars are different regardless of what some MA official stated. It's total nonsense. For example look at some noob-ATH's there already you theory goes wrong. That's not 90% return already.

If the average return for all players is 90% you will reach this number if you cycle enough PEDs. Any player getting more or less just need to cycle more and more...

 

[dr3w]

You can also repeat all you want every single avatar's return will never be 90% as you quote. All avatars are different regardless of what some MA official stated. It's total nonsense. For example look at some noob-ATH's there already you theory goes wrong. That's not 90% return already.

1. All avatars is equal. They became different, cuz of actions of player. You are that, what you're eat.
2. Noob-ATH (towers and such shit) - skills doesn't matter, all avas (see above) is equal, anyone have chance to hit big, at any moment. Your problem is in wrong view "I need to put something to get something back".

No. You can hit in "advance", but then you will "pay" for this. That road doesn't have beginning and end. For someone it's circle, I am, for example, looking at it like spira... oh shit. No, let it be circle!!! In the long run, - this is same 90% anyway.

That system is perfect. It works like PR stunt, also it shows that everybody can do that, at any moment.

 

[aridash]

...
No. You can hit in "advance", but then you will "pay" for this. That road doesn't have beginning and end. For someone it's circle, I am, for example, looking at it like spira... oh shit. No, let it be circle!!! In the long run, - this is same 90% anyway.

nope. whaty happens when a noob gets an uber, can withdraw then close avatar and create a new one? you dont pay for a big loot later any more than you pay for it up front, other wise alot of old high spending players should get alot of very profitable runs as they go on.

 

[Luckycharm]

1. All avatars is equal. They became different, cuz of actions of player. You are that, what you're eat.
2. Noob-ATH (towers and such shit) - skills doesn't matter, all avas (see above) is equal, anyone have chance to hit big, at any moment. Your problem is in wrong view "I need to put something to get something back".

No. You can hit in "advance", but then you will "pay" for this. That road doesn't have beginning and end. For someone it's circle, I am, for example, looking at it like spira... oh shit. No, let it be circle!!! In the long run, - this is same 90% anyway.

That system is perfect. It works like PR stunt, also it shows that everybody can do that, at any moment.

Well no. I know there are avatars for example that have never deposited and got a lot of ubertoys, big skills and the ones that hardly ever lose on any run.

Just that you may happen to be someone for who the equation seems to work does not mean it does so for others.

And perfect? Serious? Don't make me laugh. Look at all the bugs around. Some for years. And perhaps you have learned by now that things that do not cost MA money are often not looked into in a certain timeframe if at all.

I've seen a lot over the years out here. Not a lot is perfect in here...

As for noob ath not mattering that's bull as well. Yes you may read sometimes they spent it all. But fact is that may not be true and for sure some have withdrawn without putting anything in. No spiral 90% or circle at all. You seem to see it as a perfect world. Not the case.

Ever thought of why a certain ava sometimes at twins keeps begging for a trip to foma with hardly any ped? Well have you? Because if he hits it he makes another ava. It has already happened a few times. And they make a new one...

 

[Infinity01]

Well there are only 3 options possible:
1) You are hunting high regen/high hp mobs with too small gear
2) You hunt with unmaxed gear (shouldn't be the case if you are playing 9 years already)
3) You are one of the unluckiest entropian I have ever seen

EDIT: Can you tell what mobs and with what gear you were hunting?

OK you are wrong on all accounts.

I can say something similar outcome... but not as low as his numbers ... in my case i'd say 50 to 60% for months (last year)....

So i've tested it time to time.... same crap in various place mobs in-team (same place but different mobs), without team. consistently I got worst result..

Yesterday, after some time I went to hunt Kiana> My plan was to finish kiana 400 to get agility.
So after the first kiana killed MA gave me a global with an item! That was my first solo global after almost 2 months (can't blame MA here ... coz I really didnt' hunt enough to get globals)

But guess, what was my response.... .... yayy and victory lap...right!
.... actually no....I had the opposite response....
I said "what?! ..... again this same crap" .......So... I was thinking.... what to do? ............to go after the mission or not....finally after 38/75 I quit with a profit..... coz based on my previous experience... I'm gong to face the same crap over and over again... the system has not changed for me..

As I'm writing this,,, I''m still debating with myself whether to go after the mission or wait until the launch of Planet Cyrene!

I might endup doing it ................. LOL the lure of avatar advancement .... one of the powrful incentives that is keeping my in EU, and as part of another tests (crude and not scientific)

 

[dr3w]

nope. whaty happens when a noob gets an uber, can withdraw then close avatar and create a new one? you dont pay for a big loot later any more than you pay for it up front, other wise alot of old high spending players should get alot of very profitable runs as they go on.

TRY it, hehe. You think, MA is stupid? You think - many doesn't try it? (smile.jpg)

 

[Spawn]

unlucky avatars do exist.. If I would be one and I had played for 9 years, I would chip out, sell all my stuff.. buy all the cld's I could get. And start over. This time with the knowledge that each week you get a nice bulk of ped to play with.

 

[dr3w]

Well no. I know there are avatars for example that have never deposited and got a lot of ubertoys, big skills and the ones that hardly ever lose on any run.

I know that USA is pure fake. Everybody speaks about it, some TV shows it, it's ever have place on some "world" map. I never saw USA, it doesn't exists. And many others thinks like me.

Just that you may happen to be someone for who the equation seems to work does not mean it does so for others.

And perfect? Serious? Don't make me laugh. Look at all the bugs around. Some for years. And perhaps you have learned by now that things that do not cost MA money are often not looked into in a certain timeframe if at all.

I've seen a lot over the years out here. Not a lot is perfect in here...

Yeah I am just luckbox and my ava is "flagged" by MA.

As for noob ath not mattering that's bull as well. Yes you may read sometimes they spent it all. But fact is that may not be true and for sure some have withdrawn without putting anything in. No spiral 90% or circle at all. You seem to see it as a perfect world. Not the case.

Ever thought of why a certain ava sometimes at twins keeps begging for a trip to foma with hardly any ped? Well have you? Because if he hits it he makes another ava. It has already happened a few times. And they make a new one...

Yes, I already answered above about that funny shit.

 

[R4tt3xx]

1. All avatars is equal. They became different, cuz of actions of player. You are that, what you're eat.
2. Noob-ATH (towers and such shit) - skills doesn't matter, all avas (see above) is equal, anyone have chance to hit big, at any moment. Your problem is in wrong view "I need to put something to get something back".

No. You can hit in "advance", but then you will "pay" for this. That road doesn't have beginning and end. For someone it's circle, I am, for example, looking at it like spira... oh shit. No, let it be circle!!! In the long run, - this is same 90% anyway.

That system is perfect. It works like PR stunt, also it shows that everybody can do that, at any moment.

It does not matter what the system looks like, the player's own actions shape and change it. I also think that Dr3w is correct, hit something big early, you will pay for it later.

The point is that there is a control system in place to regulate the skill or lack of player skill, even a diceroll can be adjusted to provide a decent enough normal distribution over time, if it does not do this already.

 

[dr3w]

Well, as you can see, R4tt3xx is here, so he will help you in your further questions.

*rushing away, fearlessly dodging lighting strikes*

 

[R4tt3xx]

Well, as you can see, R4tt3xx is here, so he will help you in your further questions.

*rushing away, fearlessly dodging lighting strikes*

LOL. The most important question as a player you should be asking yourself is, how much money do I have to burn in this game as individual skill over time evens out.

At this precise moment in time, my personal answer is NO

 

[ermik]

nope. whaty happens when a noob gets an uber, can withdraw then close avatar and create a new one? you dont pay for a big loot later any more than you pay for it up front, other wise alot of old high spending players should get alot of very profitable runs as they go on.

depends on what the old high spending players burned the peds on, just tt or markup....

 

[aridash]

depends on what the old high spending players burned the peds on, just tt or markup....

we're talking in TT terms, so by high spending i mean high activity driven expediture. im sure there are a few focused individiuals who do ok, but generally i'm unaware of hundred of old un-eco players routinely getting high returns. seems everyone cites this 90% as a fact, whether they're a 2yo eco warrior or a 5 year old hard camper. i see this is a running average in the system, but its easy to get less and possible to get more if you hunt dumb/smart. Once MA has taken a skim of activity (some of the decay, remember?) i dont know they would care if you make 50 or 150% TT return, as others are winning/losing the balance.

 

[R4tt3xx]

we're talking in TT terms, so by high spending i mean high activity driven expediture. im sure there are a few focused individiuals who do ok, but generally i'm unaware of hundred of old un-eco players routinely getting high returns. seems everyone cites this 90% as a fact, whether they're a 2yo eco warrior or a 5 year old hard camper. i see this is a running average in the system, but its easy to get less and possible to get more if you hunt dumb/smart. Once MA has taken a skim of activity (some of the decay, remember?) i dont know they would care if you make 50 or 150% TT return, as others are winning/losing the balance.

If the game does not treat all players equally, it should then be classified as a casino

 

[forgo]

Either MA is deliberately not treating all players equally

OR

its a static system that allows for players to make their own decisions, however good or bad, on how they want to play, thus making 30% returns a real possibility. We usually cannot blame anyone but ourselves in this case though, for whatever reason we choose to play a certain way, and usually as is by design, there are far more options that cost us more PEDS than there are options that will return more. (weapons/mob/skills || finders/ore/skills || BPs/QR/ skills and the relations of the 3 per profession)

As far as how to maximize the returns, plenty of good advice offered already. The system never changed, it is designed to consume so much per hour as entertainment, the (L) items and various other complexities of the game make it extremely hard for us to see clearly how to maximize, and truly what the returns are, or even the accurate rate per hour.

Consider you are using a massively huge weapon at crappy eco.
Example low skills and a kismet laser: skill gains on kismet laser are massive compared to say a justifier mkIV, this is due to decay vs return formulas, and skill return being a factor in that formula.

You may be gaining massive skills that make up for a percentage of the loss. (Before chipping out last time I had assumed a percentage of loss overall on hunts, in the end though the skills pushed me well over profit, skill value is underestimated and often forgotten.)

But in the end it is the same as ever, costing us a portion per hour played and averaged out to a degree nearly impossible to tell.

I can only suggest to take some of the advice here to alter the play style. In any case though look at skills vs mob vs weapon, if you match all 3 up as close as possible you will maximize returns. Of course, how to match these accurately is a diff topic, and a complex one, which always works in MA's favor while people figure these things out....or try.

If anyone thinks MA has had no oversight or has never been subject to an audit of how the returns work, and required to prove it is not luck based (casino) by various governments, they should rethink that thought. 9 years into an RCE game and I am certain they have had their fair share of proving to do, (seem to recall mention of a US investigation many years ago, around the same time as the big online poker shakedowns).

Probably a few tax auditors/mathematicians out there with full knowledge of the system but sworn to secrecy.

 

[aridash]

If the game does not treat all players equally, it should then be classified as a casino

i think you are confused. a casino does treat all players equally, each game, each bet is a individual event with no regard for history of the better or the value of the bet. but EU is not a casino, its a computer game.

what we must ask ourselfs is, does the computer game have a regard for the avatars history or the value of the current event? does this work across all scales and all time. does the system track every single loot so if i run at 80% loss for 2 years, then it gives me a 5k hof am i now at 90% or over and expect to see continued poor returns? or does the system track loot only over a shorter period, a login session, a week, a 40 day cycle? and, the really deep question, are there other influences on my return? can one work with the system to gain better than the expected average? as i say, what does it matter to MA once their revenue is taken how smooth the remaining pool is distributed?

 

[mastermesh]

i think you are confused. a casino does treat all players equally, each game, each bet is a individual event with no regard for history of the better or the value of the bet.

Whit it is true that in a casino, the slots are rigged and don't count individual histories, each machine is rigged with it's own history.

Also, in many real casinos there are cards given out to players, which actually do track the amount you paid in, etc. That information is used in some states where there are laws about how much you are legally allowed to spend per hour, etc. It's also used to tell who the big spenders are so that the casino can send them special perks like free buffet coupons, free cash coupons that can be cashed in on the floor, etc.

 

[aridash]

Whit it is true that in a casino, the slots are rigged and don't count individual histories, each machine is rigged with it's own history.

its own history, in isolation of all others and with no regard of the player. draw that back into EU, bearing in mind the machine pays back at a certain rate without regard for who put in the coins. what is the "machine" in EU?

(if there are card/loyalty systems they are detail, not essential to the business model).

 

[XII]

..and I have a feeling that none of the loot is not random - everything is directed.
Aasiest write - MA removed me from the "list of players" who can get anything (anything significant).

from another barrel..
After the last update was reduced minimum standard loot, for example before updating I not experienced 50pec from trox young (regular 55-99pec), now I see 20-45pec very often from same mob, other mobs/loots changed too - checked. ..but aside from this - I think that MA decide who, when where and what to get without regular loots of course. I'm wrong?
MA must have for weeks gross pay from deeds..

and next other barrel..
I think too that a lot of big loots (including ATH) got substitution player - and or MA know it and control it or not (MA workers can do it without the knowledge MA)... two good business at a time: draw cash from the system and instigation to action for other players.

This all is my personal opinion - please do not comment me negatively, to respect.

Best regard.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Yeah MA is paying a employee for each and every player to monitor his or her activities. That's just too absurd. Just think about the easiest and cheapest way to implement a system paying out less than pumped in. You will have a fixed return rate which will vary but even out over the time just like a slot machine in a casino. If you play long enough you will have as much loss as everyone else. Stop looking for the magic control, the black list, the golden list or sth like that it does not exist.

 

[XII]

this is not casino! at the casino you have a better chance of winning!

how do I stop thinking in black? the whole situation in the game forcing it on me.

 

[Az Bloodz]

this is not casino! at the casino you have a better chance of winning!

how do I stop thinking in black? the whole situation in the game forcing it on me.

Nope at the casino you have no markup to cover your losses. Be patient, play smart and cycle enough PEDs. That's the key. Also track your runs. I do not believe into <40% returns without seeing a proper log. But neither you nor Argh seem to be able to show me some.

 

[XII]

Take into account the fact that I'm not talking about returns at this level all the time - but that they happen more often again.. it's a 33% of all my runs now, 63% my runs give me around 50-90% back, rest give me 0 or very small nothing changing, meaningless profit. In result is a loss.

of course there were those moments in which he was at the level max 50% of returns in 90% runs for several days without break - at this time, it inspired me to create this topic. I admit that since then little but has improved.

..and I bet that's not just me so I.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Where did you get these numbers from? Can I see your logging or is it just a feeling you have?

 

[R4tt3xx]

this is not casino! at the casino you have a better chance of winning!

how do I stop thinking in black? the whole situation in the game forcing it on me.

Yes a casino would be easier, Mindark would have to explain the rules for each profession in order to make it fair to each player.

 

[Az Bloodz]

Yes a casino would be easier, Mindark would have to explain the rules for each profession in order to make it fair to each player.

If you need any help with understanding the game I could be your mentor. Just ask but don't bother anyone with your wicked theories when you in fact admit that you do not get it.

 

[XII]

my old small log - completely invalid because.. There you can see what it was cool in comparison to what I am today, now

I have somewhere else old allo log too.. you can find it.

 

[Az Bloodz]

no need ppl for advices to mr. XII cose he doesn't care. I have spent almost 3 years trying to show him how to hunt properly...still nothing. Absolutely nothing, he plays like 6 yo kid with a 200hp avatar whos dad has said "here, take these peds, go, hunt now my son, enjoy".

He so hard believes in dumb conspiracy theories, that he doesn't believe in anything like "eco, prober armor and gun, etc"... I'm still asking myself "so why is he still playing ?...a miracle ? wtf is a mirlace ? do you believe in miracles like 100k ped hunting hof ?"

What can we see here ?

Pointless minimal deposits.
Almost non-existant hunting budget...
He's got "uber" gun and good skills...but he burns less peds/day than h400/p5a hunter + I sign under everything what STYRM wrote. It's soo focking true, unfortunatelly or more likely...probably...XII doesn't understand this. Well...I wish all the best in this project my soc m8, cose you will need a hell of a lot of luck...yes luck...cose smth strange occured and Your brain vanished

my 2 pecs You know I like you, just wanted to be honest and save You and vievers from unnecessary "Advice-posts" .

This guy got it. Nothing to add maybe you listen to some of the advice people gave and give you instead of spreading conspiracy theories about unlucky avatars?