6 Months to a New EU

[Steve_saber]

Nice thought John. But as the saying goes...be careful what you wish for mate.

History tells us, if they fix the arm, they'll break 10 more things in the process......then eventually fix it, then break it again 2 VU's later...

Sorry but it is what it is.

 

[Spawn]

Now add a poll!!!

And make sure everybody in this forum votes!

 

[kosmos]

I think you should check how many people there is in MA close concurent , and what is MA employer...
Some year ago SL and EVE had even less people than MA...
Main diference was , the top 10 in other compagny are out from coding , design , creation compagny and all made school related to those activities , MA top 10 was economist ,and PR people...

go now check what compagny have the most player , most profit,and biggest man power...

the old excuse " MA is small compagny , they dont have much people"...never was a so good one , but its total false now...
true you can not compare MA to blizzard , but there is tons of game compagny around with same or lower man power than MA , and they manage a way better work qualitie...
even if , i must admit , since VU 10 MA/FPC tend to have a better work than in past , they are still very long and slow to fix some bug or come with new things...
Dont forget vehicle is delivered with engine... MA didnt really had big work on that...

and personally , i would prefer see MA work on some MMORPG profession like farmer , lumberjack , fishing , taming...than se them make 3D chat or some other SL copy things they seems to want to do.

I hope to see beacon misson with area that change like in the old diablo 1...
they could also work a bit on AI...EU AI is ... hummm , how to say...the shamest AI i have ever see...Dune 2 on atari had a way way better AI...

you know whats sad there is a browser fishing game I play. the guy that made it runs 4 other browser games.. its just him, 1 guy. if something goes wrong he fixes it asap. he also updates his games frequently. admitily they are low tech games, but the point is he doesn't point the finger at someone else (fpc to ma) and says "they working on it."

he makes it happen

btw do i have to be a forum mod to get the same attention for similar topic?

mentioned simular

kosmos

 

[Einstein]

Everything you say sounds great, but also completely unrealistic and even naïve.

Having everyone bug squashing for 3 months is not gonna kill all the bugs, there will probably still be as many bugs in the game as before …
How often have we not seen that by killing one bug, they create 2 new ones?

In complex systems like EU, I’m pretty sure that no matter how big your bug fixing team is there will always be a certain amount of bugs. This may be even a constant?

Some of the mathematicians should get to work, wouldn’t surprise me if the % of bugs in any system is directly related to the size of the system ;p

This off course doesn’t mean that they should not do any bug killing, I’m just saying that having everyone only focus on bug killing will not do any good either.

About reimplementing the old systems. I think this is important, but the importance should really not be overrated.
EU atm has a veeeery limited playerbase. So MA should focus on making their platform as interesting as possible for new players.
New players don’t care about the beacon system or taming or facemask or … because they never knew it.

 

[vardath]

About reimplementing the old systems. I think this is important, but the importance should really not be overrated.
EU atm has a veeeery limited playerbase. So MA should focus on making their platform as interesting as possible for new players.
New players don’t care about the beacon system or taming or facemask or … because they never knew it.

I'm a new player, or was new a few months back, and I can honestly say, the reason I don't play anymore, and the reason EU has a veeeeery limited playerbase is because the old systems are not there, I never played the old systems, but from my understanding they were very enjoyable. Since I started playing I have found the game to be less and less enjoyable with every VU. If MA want EU playerbase to improve, all they have to do is listen to what players want.

 

[Nooba]

About reimplementing the old systems. I think this is important, but the importance should really not be overrated.
EU atm has a veeeery limited playerbase. So MA should focus on making their platform as interesting as possible for new players.
New players don’t care about the beacon system or taming or facemask or … because they never knew it.

Although even new players find fruit and sweetstuff and other items that are currently USELESS, so either these items stop dropping in loot, or new players DO have an interest in them returning.

 

[Einstein]

I'm a new player, or was new a few months back, and I can honestly say, the reason I don't play anymore, and the reason EU has a veeeeery limited playerbase is because the old systems are not there, I never played the old systems, but from my understanding they were very enjoyable. Since I started playing I have found the game to be less and less enjoyable with every VU. If MA want EU playerbase to improve, all they have to do is listen to what players want.

EU also had a limited playerbase with the old systems.

And they should not always listen to what players want.

In the old days players complained about too many items in loot.
So MA stopped dropping most items
Players then complain no items are dropping in loot.

In the old days ammo was dropping in loot. I don't remember if players complained about this but MA removed ammo from loot.
MA then removed ammo from loot.
Players complain that there is no ammo in loot.
Ma adds ammo in the loot and players complain that they can not calculate return rate.

......

Many examples like this.

Over the last 7 years, I don't think there was aaaaany time that players did not complain about the loot. Always there are people saying 'I wich loot was again like 6 months ago' blah blah blah. There will always be people that do worse than usual and people that do better than usual, so there will always be people that have something to complain about.

If MA would listen to players all the time this would probably be the worst game ever. Because everyone has a different opinion and very often it changes like the wind.

Although even new players find fruit and sweetstuff and other items that are currently USELESS, so either these items stop dropping in loot, or new players DO have an interest in them returning.

It is true that these items are useless atm, but they are not unsellable.
The price has gone down on fruit that is true.

But do you really think this has a big effect on new players? How big a % of new players really used fruit as an important source of income?

 

[Nooba]

It is true that these items are useless atm, but they are not unsellable.
The price has gone down on fruit that is true.

But do you really think this has a big effect on new players? How big a % of new players really used fruit as an important source of income?

Nah, they probably use the thriving sweat market to support themselves

 

[Menace]

Please note this program says nothing about any complaints about "poor loot" or anything like that. If you wish to complain about how bad your last hunting run was or something, please do it in another thread. Do not pollute this thread with that stuff. This is all about improving game play and entertainment value.

If you agree with this program, please send a support case, pointing them to this thread.

If you disagree, please explain how you think this schedule can be improved.

Thank you for your support.

Though I'm trying NOT to pollute this thread, and I understand the FINAL result WOULD increase revenue for MA, it has been shown that whenever MA has to spend money, they take it from the loot pool. There has been a constant decrease in returns (TT returns MU is another story) since MA started working on CryEngine. Long time players may say returns have decreased for the past 6 years but 2 years ago I could get 85% TT return roughly. If MA continuously skims off the top of the loot pool then I fear that before your 6 mth time frame comes to an end it may be too late.
We seen in the last financial statement that there is only about 25% of the PED value in-game accessible to MA ATM. There is absolutely NO reason for this. So... in order for your 6mth plan to be effective, MA MUST secure outside finances from somewhere. A completely bug free service with ALL old systems back will NOT save our game if avg returns drop to 40%.

Menace

 

[Miles]

I have to dissagree

In any system that is as complex as EU and is also under constant development will have plenty of bugs. It's just a fact. MA should work hard to fix bugs - but to think you could just wave a wand and say "Everybody fix all the bugs" is really naive.

John, you made many of you statements based on assumptions that may or may not be true. Let me give you one of mine. The EVIL radar bug - I assume that a critical bug like this is getting attention, and the only reason we have not seen a patch for it is that they have still not fixed it. Some bugs are much harder to solve than others. The fact that we've had updates and it has not been fixed means it is not easy. I also think we will get a mini update that is primarily to implement the fix once it is made.

Look, some bugs are bad, some are annoyances, and some are just silly, but they're not going away.

As far RT is concerned - I don't have any clue if your assumptions are valid, nor do I really care.

Regarding old systems. Sure bring them back, but bring them back when they are ready. I would rather wait for good system then have them rush some shite out to meet some artificial deadline. I also want new stuff. I want new stuff more than I want stupid pets or makeup. Face it, the problem with EU/FPC is not the lack of pets, or make-up, mentoring, or even beacons. FFS, nobody is going to start playing this game because makeup is back.

Sure avatars with skills in those areas are SOL for now - and they bitch and whine to high heaven, as is their right - but give me the choice between vehicles and taming, it's a no-brainer. Frankly, I think we have a had a healthy mix of old and new systems, but it is the new that keeps things fresh and interesting.

Also, the NAZ and the remade PA/Swamp Camp along with the Rookie Gear, have done far more to improve the new arrival experience (and almost certainly the retention rate) than mentoring ever could or will. Mentoring should come back, but to think it is more important is ridiculous.

Mentoring will probably be better and more effective when disciples have more knowledge already, and more activities they can do at low cost. I would say we are much better off without it now than we were when every newbie got mugged by scummy disciple farmers, and only the rare lucky noob met up with a good one.

I would much rather be in a growing, changing, dynamic universe, bugs and all, than in a flawless yet sterile and stagnant one. If wanted that kind of experience, I'd buy it in a box (and it would still have bugs).

So I say this to MA: Keep up with the mix of new stuff and re-worked old stuff. Give FPC (and RT, etc.) the tools they need to keep improving their games - FPC certainly has some good momentum right now - and fix that EVIL radar bug ASAP (but you knew that already).



Miles

 

[Razormat]

In any system that is as complex as EU and is also under constant development will have plenty of bugs. It's just a fact. MA should work hard to fix bugs - but to think you could just wave a wand and say "Everybody fix all the bugs" is really naive.

John, you made many of you statements bases on assumptions that may or may not be true. Let me give you one of mine. The EVIL radar bug - I assume that a critical bug like this is getting attention, and the only reason we have not seen a patch for it is that they have still not fixed it. Some bugs are much harder to solve than others. The fact that we've had updates and it has not been fixed means it is not easy. I also think we will get a mini update that is primarily to implement the fix once it is made.

Look, some bugs are bad, some are annoyances, and some are just silly, but they're not going away.

As far RT is concerned - I don't have any clue if your assumptions are valid, nor do I really care.

Regarding old systems. Sure bring them back, but bring them back when they are ready. I would rather wait for good system then have them rush some shite out to meet some artificial deadline. I also want new stuff. I want new stuff more than I want stupid pets or makeup. Face it, the problem with EU/FPC is not the lack of pets, or make-up, mentoring, or even beacons. FFS, nobody is going to start playing this game because makeup is back.

Sure avatars with skills in those areas a SOL for now - and they bitch and whine to high heaven, as is their right - but give me the choice between vehicles and taming, it's a no-brainer. Frankly, I think we have a had a healthy mix of old and new systems, but it is the new that keeps things fresh and interesting.

Also, the NAZ and the remade PA/Swamp Camp along with the Rookie Gear, have done far more to improve the new arrival experience (and almost certainly the retention rate) than mentoring ever could or will. Mentoring should come back, but to think it is more important is ridiculous.

Mentoring will probably be better and more effective when disciples have more knowledge already, and more activities they can do at low cost. I would say we are much better off without it now than we were when every newbie got mugged by scummy disciple farmers, and only the rare lucky noob met up with a good one.

I would much rather be in a growing, changing, dynamic universe, bugs and all, than in a flawless yet sterile and stagnant one. If wanted that kind of experience, I'd buy it in a box (and it would still have bugs).

So I say this to MA: Keep up with the mix of new stuff and re-worked old stuff. Give FPC (and RT, etc.) the tools they need to keep improving their games - FPC certainly has some good momentum right now - and fix that EVIL radar bug ASAP (but you knew that already).



Miles

I agree with that.

 

[vardath]

I agree with that.

I don't agree entirely. I would far rather have taming than vehicles. I say get rid of the new stuff, put PA back how it was, get rid of all the new quests, scrap the lot. When taming and mentoring and beacons make a return then and only then bring the new stuff in.

 

[Dr.D.C.]

In my opinion
1) First month: fix the umbalanced loot pool
2) What the guy said.


Ps

Please note this program says nothing about any complaints about "poor loot" or anything like that. If you wish to complain about how bad your last hunting run was or something, please do it in another thread. Do not pollute this thread with that stuff. This is all about improving game play and entertainment value.

How you can see i talk about umbalanced loot and you talk about poor loot. Those are 2 totally different issues, so i guess you have no problem with my post.
Cheers

 

[JohnCapital]

The fact that we've had updates and it has not been fixed means it is not easy.

You assume they are actually working on fixing it. I'll quote a story from a big bug that occurred a while back as an example:

Window mode was asked for and promised for a long time.

One VU (8.7 I believe) screwed up PEass and alt+tabbing screwed up the game, forcing you to close it.

About a week later (IIRC) VU 8.7.2 came out and hey-presto. Window mode.

They didn't work on it, didn't work on it, didn't work on it, until a vital problem occurred forcing them to work on it. Then it only took a week.

Regarding old systems. Sure bring them back, but bring them back when they are ready.

How will they ever be ready if they never work on them?

I don't agree entirely. I would far rather have taming than vehicles. I say get rid of the new stuff, put PA back how it was, get rid of all the new quests, scrap the lot. When taming and mentoring and beacons make a return then and only then bring the new stuff in.

There is no reason to scrap any new stuff. It's all good and fun and everything. I'm simply asking that these 3 issues not be ignored too much longer.

 

[Miles]

You assume they are actually working on fixing it. I'll quote a story from a big bug that occurred a while back as an example:

They didn't work on it, didn't work on it, didn't work on it, until a vital problem occurred forcing them to work on it. Then it only took a week.

I assume they are working on it while you assume they aren't. I base my assumption on Hanne's statement - "MA knows. MA is working on it, we are bugging them about" from last week, and you base yours on a circumstantial reading of a far less critical bug from over 3 years ago. I started playing prior to VU 9 myself - I have seen my share of bugs - this is the best you could do? What I have seen over the years is that some bug fixes take longer than others, but they get fixed.

It seems since VU 10 we have had less of the bugs that get fixed, only to come back in later update. In that respect, I thing the bug situation is much better than in the past. I also see a history of progress in the overall stability and performance of the entire system. It is a messy history, with false steps and setbacks along the way, but one must put on rose-tinted glasses and tighten ones headband to look back not to see an overall path of progress. I've read enough about the years before I arrived to know that this is not a new phenomenon, but a long term trend. Progress with complaints. The progress may or may not be popular, but it is undeniable.

Example - the client loader. It has gone through massive changes, and had some maddening bugs as it was upgraded for multiple planets, etc. - but now it performs reliably, can test and repair installations, and I have not had a single client loader related problem in a long time. Surely this is a better, more secure, and more stable client loader than before.

I could go on and on with such examples. I experienced rubber-banding for the first time ages. The occasion? Brand new PA (day one, the first few hours - with the server at its population capacity, while driving a vehicle at high speed). We all know rubber banding used to be endemic, and didn't even require a crowd, although a crowd guaranteed one, and we moved at a much slower speed.

How will they ever be ready if they never work on them?

Who says they are not? Only you (joined instinctively by the forces of negativity in all things that dwell on the forum). MA has said (via Marco) that all systems will be back by the end of the year. While I'll believe when I see it, I don't doubt that they are working toward that goal and the systems will all be back in the near future even if not by the end of the year. I would be surprised if we don't see at least one more old system back by year's end. I also expect the updated systems will be superior to the originals

There is no reason to scrap any new stuff. It's all good and fun and everything. I'm simply asking that these 3 issues not be ignored too much longer.

That a weakening of you case when compared to your OP. Personally, I don't think they are being ignored. I expect that development is occurring on multiple tracks, and we get what is ready when it is ready. I also hope that MA prioritizes based on a far more rational basis than what makes animal trainers and make up artists happy. In the big picture, we all will benefit if the Universe grows, and systems that serve the broadest populations should have a higher priority than systems with narrower interest.

Surely if I was an animal trainer I'd be feeling ignored, but with a longer view I would think that my banked skills will give me a big leg up when an actually useful pet system is reintroduced. Perspective is everything.



Miles

 

[XeroX2]

yeah sounds like a good plan to fix EU... however I think the loot issue should be adressed too...

 

[JohnCapital]

Miles, we'll simply have to agree to disagree. We have no proof 100% either way that they are, or not not working on these things on a daily basis.

 

[vardath]

Surely if I was an animal trainer I'd be feeling ignored, but with a longer view I would think that my banked skills will give me a big leg up when an actually useful pet system is reintroduced. Perspective is everything.



Miles

Well, having started after taming was taken away I have no banked skills, I do not play anymore for several reasons, the main one being no profit potential whatsoever, the second one being that the things that are in the game at the moment are not enjoyable (and that's for 2 reasons again, I don't enjoy vehicles and I have no money to do anything fun anymore). I would definitely find money to invest if they brought back some of the more profitable systems such as taming, mentoring and beacons, even if there's not much/any profit I would enjoy those things. I'm not a rev head so I am not served by this game.

 

[billairboy]

What do you think most players think are cooler: The vehicles or a mob hanging around used as an billboared? I pretty sure of that answer..... The vehicles have done the game so much cooler, so MA have my full suport for give that system priority before pets. But an improved pet system where they could be used as "vehicles" would be great and bring much coolnes too.

And after running around a bit in the new PA area i think FPC did a good job with it to make it better for new players.

 

[Robinffs]

I think these are really important stuff that should be addressed ASAP, I dont understand why it hasn't been fixed yet.

 

[Mits]

Very Nice, could you also add, Fix the loot pool? that would get an 250% deposit increase.

 

[JohnCapital]

5 months later and a new year now. Any new opinions on this plan?

In fairness:

• Yes some bugs have been fixed (not all, but I'm not expecting miracles)
• Initial BPs are dropping on RT now, though they're a far cry from being self-sufficient
• A 3rd planet is now open (sort of)
• FPC got sold
• We're no closer to having the old systems in place then we were 4 months ago

Considering this post, I'd say we're screwed for another year.

 

[Iphigia]

5 months later and a new year now. Any new opinions on this plan?

In fairness:

• Yes some bugs have been fixed (not all, but I'm not expecting miracles)
• Initial BPs are dropping on RT now, though they're a far cry from being self-sufficient
• A 3rd planet is now open (sort of)
• FPC got sold
• We're no closer to having the old systems in place then we were 4 months ago

Considering this post, I'd say we're screwed for another year.

Actually, I'd say another 2 years simply because we have Arkadia and Planet Michael in the works. These additions will simply bring MA's ability to do much of anything to a complete standstill in regards to Calypso.

The dismal state of RT shows that Planet Partners will have to pay 6 mil up front and then spend years of costly development with little to no return and Jon even said that everything worked perfectly on the test server but, when exported to the live server for NI, it was a total mess. Very difficult to develop when the systems are so disparate.

I just don't understand why JWT didn't expand the programming team prior to VU10.

 

[ranpha]

Considering this post, I'd say we're screwed for another year.

Now JC be carefull before you get banned.

But JWT clearly showed to use that MA doenst deliver. They have not even started designing new system which where promised till end of 2010. Being optimitsc .. space will come in summer and then MAYBE mentoring /taming end of 2011.

 

[juicy001]

i want just my pets back

 

[Calin]

I just don't understand why JWT didn't expand the programming team prior to VU10.

Maybe they had to wait til they had the 6 mil from SEE?

 

[melander]

Your order seems perfectly sensable however i think 3 months to bring back the systems is a bit much, would rather wait 5-6 months on those and have them properly tested so they arent buggy as hell when they arrive

 

[Princess_Fiona]

Don't worry about the bugs, we all know calypso is gonna be empty after planet MJ launches and everyone goes there...


Shamone heee heee...

Disclaimer- i don't really believe this would happen in a million years, just trying to spread some humour .

I hear Planet MJ will only be accepting little boys on their planet....

Furthermore, as far as RT goes, maybe ND should stop focusing on how to look like a proper hollywood posh celebrity, and start focusing on wtf his lil craphole needs.

As far as the rest of it goes, there's a saying that i've always been told, and it's that the less and less a person knows, the more ideas/opinions they will have. As you do NOT know how things work (which is usually a bunch of dudes tossing around paper airplanes and drinking Mt dew while getting high at grandma's house) then you could not possibly say for sure what will work if you do this or that.

Nice try tho, and i am in agreement with what you say, but you gotta realize that this IS MA/FPC/SEE/(insert failure of a company here) we're talking about.

If this was Blizzard Entertainment, we wouldn't even be bitching right now lol.

 

[Princess_Fiona]

Your order seems perfectly sensable however i think 3 months to bring back the systems is a bit much, would rather wait 5-6 months on those and have them properly tested so they arent buggy as hell when they arrive

I think his order is off period. Implement the shit first, THEN focus on fixing ALL of the bugs in one shot. That way we dont have to fix the bugs every other month every time we implement 1 new thing.