Camera & Control System Preview and Guides

MsPudding

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Terminal interfaces now automatically close when an avatar walks away beyond a certain distance.

One thing I like to do while crafting is position my avatar in a place where I can access the auction, storage, trade terminal, and the crafting machine. Without ever moving.

Has this already been answered? But, will I still be able to do that? Or am I going to have to move my ass a few feet?
 

Wistrel

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But they ARE trying to fix it. This game needs a ton of work, and it won't happen overnight.
Rather than reply to everything here, I'll simply say that I've been active in game on and off (but always following development) for over 14 years and have even published articles about it. So you can rest assured that I'm very aware that nothing MA do, will ever "happen overnight",... "over decade" would be pushing it even :laugh:

Wistrel
 

Wistrel

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From my history of contact with the rest of your playerbase I feel confident in saying that the majority of your longest lasting players will say the same. This type of emergent play challenge adds to the play experience.
If I can add some weight to this statement, Lefty spends a LOT of time in game talking to and socialising with many of the players, particularly the newer, less experienced ones.

Listen to what Lefty says.
 

mastermesh

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One thing I like to do while crafting is position my avatar in a place where I can access the auction, storage, trade terminal, and the crafting machine. Without ever moving.

Has this already been answered? But, will I still be able to do that? Or am I going to have to move my ass a few feet?
Come to rocktropia tangerine apartments.. all terminals are on same pole.
 

Wistrel

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Come to rocktropia tangerine apartments.. all terminals are on same pole.
I'm imagining something like the avatar totempole fun from 2003/4, but with with terminals stacked on top of each other instead. :laugh:
 

Evey

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One thing I like to do while crafting is position my avatar in a place where I can access the auction, storage, trade terminal, and the crafting machine. Without ever moving.

Has this already been answered? But, will I still be able to do that? Or am I going to have to move my ass a few feet?
Interacting with Storage, Inventory, TT and Auction all at the same time is a nice feature, since organizing one's stuff gets harder as you progress in the game and things start to pile up. Knowing there's a long way until a storage overhaul, you could make it less unpleasant to deal with all the inventory and keep this feature we have (on Calypso as well)
 

narfi

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a stretchable inventory window would be cool :)
a searchable window!
a sortable window!
Next I hope they get rid of this 1982 style inventory management and replace it with a tabbed list view.
We really do need a text list option for inventory. Sortable by different variables even better.


Is the next step going to be xbox controller support?
Using a controller now is very clunky and not enjoyable at all, please add native support. This seems like the time to do it.

Perhaps even nicer would be a companion mobile app for control and chat both. With options to display some game info on your mobile 'controller' screen, in addition to the controls.
 

Max Hec

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If I can add some weight to this statement, Lefty spends a LOT of time in game talking to and socialising with many of the players, particularly the newer, less experienced ones.

Listen to what Lefty says.
^this is very true.
I've even wondered how/why Lefty is so patient. :scratch2:

New players issues with game isn't the general UI:
How can I put fuel in car. Where's my car, its gone? Not in my inventory I just looked. Were is that other inventory? My car is blown up/broken were can I get another? How to repair car? etc.
How to reload magazine? I had thousands of shots and I shot a monster a few times and out of ammo where did it go! How to get another weapon mine won't work, I got another weapon and it won't work either I still have a dozen shots of ammo left... etc.
Seriously how do players like Lefty and CRT do it?

EDIT: Dear dev please consider logging into game and just watching rookie chat over a weekend for at least 8 hours each day to find out why player retention is an issue and be sure to thank those who helped the newbies...
 

TheGaijin

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well. its typical MA. they got one thing that is working pretty good and nearly bugfree so t hey decide to "fix" it so that nothing in this game is working good anymore. smart move.
 

jetsina

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A few years ago at least some of the Caly landscape was stretched vertically a bit in a wholesale move. The terrain was exactly the same in 2-d from above, i.e. map, but slopes were made higher, and thus steeper.
Maybe you can consider this apparently easy move again, but reversed, so that fewer areas are unaccessible on foot in the new system?

And I would like to say that I feel more immersed when I get slowed down occassionally by terrain. It's only annoying when in a vehicle which lags for some reason and ends up crashing. Still, if movement over terrain really is improved, then alright, but please be sure you are fighting the true causes. As mentioned, sometimes lag and stuttering is caused by a green dot appearing on radar, while at other times in the wilderness it's always in the same place but not a server border or anything else I have been able to identify.

And please do not continue to take away our emergent pleasures. I don't know if you know what butt-sliding was, and yes, I guess it was a bug, but it actually added FUN to the game. Several people have now mentioned that enjoyable gameplay is being lost, which is different from [complaining about] adjusting to new systems.

Finally, why are our keyboard maps being saved as some kind of file (text) ? Can't you add a default keyboard map for us all as an extra layer, or so, or just replace one layout number?
 
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Max Hec

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Did anyone tell Planet Partners about the planned 60 degree slope issue?
Lakes, rivers, oceans are going to be a big issue. Plus the removal of more fun factor. :(
 

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Why on earth are so many people in this thread spending so much time trying to climb up mountains?
 

Max Hec

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Why on earth are so many people in this thread spending so much time trying to climb up mountains?
Mountains are only a small part of the loss of fun factor, & obviously many people do not play the same as you.

But shorelines on Cyrene often have banks greater then 60 degrees, so getting out of water will be an issue.
Those screenies I posted are all taken during a 3 minute walk through a common part of Cyrene.

Also a fair number of spots along waterways on Calypso are also greater then 60 degrees, we all know around 80-90 degrees the avatar usually gets stuck on the shoreline but that doesn't stop everyone from trying.
 

Mega

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Why on earth are so many people in this thread spending so much time trying to climb up mountains?
If you do the Argo Daily Mission you can currently climb the mountain to the cave entrance from the mission broker. That wont be possible in future.


Just one example.


I remember when VU 10.0 arrived and we could barely get about if you remember back 10 years. Fortunately, we have vehicles now so there is a workaround.

I dont see the need for this change, but I guess we will be all be buying jetpacks from the trade terminal in the near future. ;)
 

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If you do the Argo Daily Mission you can currently climb the mountain to the cave entrance from the mission broker. That wont be possible in future.


Just one example.


I remember when VU 10.0 arrived and we could barely get about if you remember back 10 years. Fortunately, we have vehicles now so there is a workaround.

I dont see the need for this change, but I guess we will be all be buying jetpacks from the trade terminal in the near future. ;)
Flying over the mountain is much faster.
 

Oleg

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I remember when VU 10.0 arrived and we could barely get about if you remember back 10 years. Fortunately, we have vehicles now so there is a workaround.
God yes, that was horrendous, though mostly because we didn't have TP chips. It was well before vehicles were even introduced, but we were all used to using TP chips to get around, and suddenly we had to run everywhere. It was the pure waste of time that was the worst part, but the mountains certainly didn't help.

Those screenies I posted are all taken during a 3 minute walk through a common part of Cyrene.
Only one of those shots looks like it might be anywhere near 60 degrees, the others are clearly less. I'm not sure everyone here understands what 60 degrees is. 60 degrees is very steep.
 

Max Hec

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God yes, that was horrendous, though mostly because we didn't have TP chips. It was well before vehicles were even introduced, but we were all used to using TP chips to get around, and suddenly we had to run everywhere. It was the pure waste of time that was the worst part, but the mountains certainly didn't help.



Only one of those shots looks like it might be anywhere near 60 degrees, the others are clearly less. I'm not sure everyone here understands what 60 degrees is. 60 degrees is very steep.
60 degrees as per roofing or 60 degrees opposite of that norm?
And that was only a few quick screenshots, maybe try visiting Cyrene sometime you might be surprised how nice it is and hilly.

As for this discussion about 60 degrees it doesn't matter.
Its pretty appearant MA has already issued the marching orders to "planet partners".
http://www.cyreneforum.com/threads/cyrene-waters-edge-often-greater-then-60-degrees.7985/

Well best of luck to everyone in the days coming, you'll need it.

- unsub'd
 

Xen

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60 degrees as per roofing or 60 degrees opposite of that norm?
And that was only a few quick screenshots, maybe try visiting Cyrene sometime you might be surprised how nice it is and hilly.

As for this discussion about 60 degrees it doesn't matter.
Its pretty appearant MA has already issued the marching orders to "planet partners".
http://www.cyreneforum.com/threads/cyrene-waters-edge-often-greater-then-60-degrees.7985/

Well best of luck to everyone in the days coming, you'll need it.

- unsub'd


60 degrees is steep.
 

San

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Did anyone tell Planet Partners about the planned 60 degree slope issue?
Lakes, rivers, oceans are going to be a big issue.
Arkadia got alerted to the possibility of having to deal with support tickets regarding their Warehouse instances and removal of the status bars (credit to Forgo for pointing it out, I forwarded it to the team). About the rest, I'm sure all PPs are bracing themselves already.

Why on earth are so many people in this thread spending so much time trying to climb up mountains?
http://scihi.org/george-mallory-mount-everest/

Why on earth did anyone ever want to lie down with their avatar?
Why on earth are so many people spending so much time playing games? Why on earth is it a profession at all producing games for others to waste their time with? Think outside of your own box, man.

I do appreciate a sense of plausibility in VR. Jetpacks have been suggested since long, and climbing would be cool instead of this stiffly ramping up. If it also serves to address a problem as Dennis pointed out, then it's killing two birds with one stone. What is not cool is removing stuff or access to places, shutting everybody up with a promise to do something about it later, and then maybe discovering that it's optional while the next thing is more interesting. We probably wouldn't be so sensitive about it if it hadn't happened too many times already. I just hope they can see the value in not repeating past mistakes and make this change one well-rounded package. I know they can, it's just a matter of setting the right paradigm, which is precisely in the hands of the product owner. Weigh customer satisfaction and the stress imposed on support and the planet partners against the urgency to release. It will be good, since it addresses so many issues we like to see fixed. There is no need to spoil it.
 

Ace Flyster

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Let's be fair, this is MA, half of the new features won't work on release. So they can concentrate on the one or two that do work, and how they break the game ;-)

Remember MA are the worst testers in gaming history.

P.S. we seriously need healthbars for crafting. Not being able to drag auction, storage, tt etc will be a royal pain in the ass.

Rgds

Ace
 

Evey

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P.S. we seriously need healthbars for crafting. Not being able to drag auction, storage, tt etc will be a royal pain in the ass.

Rgds

Ace
But those terminals are big and standing still, not hard to aim at all (be it cursor mode or aim mode)
:scratch2:
 

fred5283

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Will we still be able to drag commands out from the action library and click them?
Asking for friend that plays exclusively using Splashtop (remote access software) :)

PS - hopefully hit boxes are fixed while using auto use tool
PSS - hopefully attack range is same when shooting 1st person vs auto use tool
 

Guarana

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MA really needs to stop playing other games and say "HEY! WE NEED THIS IN ENTROPIA!"

Seems botting will be easier with the new layout though.
 

Dennis|MindArk

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Thanks again for all the feedback!

For all the mountain climbers out there, we adjusted the maximum climbable slope to 68 degrees. A slope of 50 degrees or more will force an avatar into walking animation and speed. These changes should allow avatars to climb most terrain. Keep in mind that these changes also affect mobs, and we really would prefer not to have creatures moving around on those steep hills. Combat interactions on such steep and uneven terrain is not optimal and will behave unpredictably. If necessary, the currently planned settings can be tweaked if necessary.


Seeing the mob highlighted when in the distance does seem helpful, but seeing it flicker every time it is hit up close, especially when it is filling the whole screen... Not a fan. It can get tiring for the eyes really quick even just watching the videos in a day time hunt, and i do not know what effects all that flashing might have on people with photosensitive epilepsy.
There will be an option to disable the highlighting.

I hope every shortcut will be customizable..
Yes, all actions can be mapped however you please, except for the left and right mouse buttons.

I'm curious about the left mouse button. It is used now to shoot your weapon at a mob. By the sounds of it (according to the text in the videos), it will in the future change target?! What's the default mouse button for shooting your weapon at the same mob?
Left mouse button will activate the Use Tool action so there isn’t any change there. What you can do in cursor mode is select and lock on a target with Left mouse button and then press again on that target to use your tool. Tagging with this method is very easy and smooth.

Need some clarification... so if I am in aim mode and right after I kill a mob my aim happens to be lined up with another mob in the distance, will pressing F lock on that mob in the distance even if another mob is right behind me attacking? This would not be good.
The aim has to be precisely on the target in the distance for F to lock on it and attack. If not, F will prioritize the creature attacking you. Beware however that F can only lock onto something it can see so, being in first person mode will not allow F to lock onto a target behind you.

What is with third person and scrollin up to see more space around the Character? I hope the dont take this option out. I can not play in first person mode, because i have motion sickness. I need to scroll out and distance..
You can scroll out, though slightly less than before.

By the way Dragging and clicking health bars is my preferred style of playing. I dont think the new camera system helps me or is something i need. I also dont like go in front of Terminals and open it with F, the old system mit the computer mouse was ok.
Instead of clicking the status bar you will now click on the creature instead. It is still possible to interact with terminals using right mouse button.

I do hope healers will get some attention in the process.
Maybe some settings like:
- heal the most low HP party member;
- heal attacking mob's(or targeted mob's) targeted party member;
Status bars in the team interface are unchanged, so interacting that way will still be possible, and will even see some improvements.

With a healing tool equipped, it is now possible to double-click (left mouse button) a teammate’s status bar to heal. Alternatively you can mouseover a teammate’s avatar or status bar and use the Use Tool action to heal that target.

Seems to me this new system is a kick in the balls to people who prefer to use the mouse for interacting in the game. All these changes seemed geared to forcing more keyboard wasd play and making interaction feel more like a shitty console port game lol
Our goal is for the keyboard and mouse control systems to be more similar and integrated. Gameplay exclusively using the mouse in cursor mode is much more convenient and smooth in the new system, once you get used to it. I use it on my second monitor while working and it’s great!

My most frequent usage of the status bar is getting an overview of creatures within range in case of mixed spawns out of which I want to target something specific. For this purpose I designed my keyboard layout so that I can press next-target and activate-status-bar in quick succession. This captures also the ones outside the current field of vision so that time consuming turning around is not necessary. Will this still be possible somehow after the change?
No it will not. You will have to turn around but I do believe that it will not be an issue now with the new system. Also we don’t want you to be able to target something you cannot see.

To summarise responses so far we have teaming and healing, taming, overall area awareness (including maybe health check on a damaged mob which isn't yours), proximities in space, etc. If you mean 'reevaluate' as being 'at some point in the future', then that is going to be loads of grief right now.
You did put your quote right at the top of your response to us, but can you please revisit the points we have made please? Especially, will ALL status bars be gone, including mothership health sections, for example, or have we misunderstood?
I meant that we will resolve all the known potential issues in the best way we can as soon as possible, including some adjustments before implementation of the new system.

Not all status bars have been removed. Status bars for mothership health sections, vehicles and team members still exist. The main change is that status bars cannot be dragged out for entities that do no explicitly have a status bar.

My concern is the ammo burn in PvP whilst shooting mobs if you don't actually hit the mob. We never auto use as a gunner as its 1 ped per shot, even if your shooting blank space. Will this feature be able to be disabled? Or will there be a way in which no shot is spend unless its directly on a mob
You can still trigger Use Tool manually on a locked target.

When in a car, currently holding the right mouse button and moving the mouse left and right allows for analogue steering using the mouse. Similarly, pressing both buttons and then continuing to hold the right one, makes the avatar run and allows mouse control of direction. Will both these (essentially the same) features continue to work after the "camera update"?
Yes, it will still work that way.

What is wrong with aiming at a mob, shooting it (with left mouse button) till it is dead then looting it (with left mouse button)? Why do I need to use the right mouse button now? (I'm confused as to why this helps/is good)
In aim mode you can use F or Right mouse button. In cursor mode you don’t need to use right mouse button and looting can be done by double clicking left mouse button.

Currently zoom out/in limits in vehicles in 3rd Person are different to those when viewing an avatar in 3rd Person. They are not particularly good at the moment as the limit on zoom in (before switching to 1st Person) is actually quite far from the vehicle (I think this is only on the flying vehicles actually) will this be fixed so we can get in closer to our flying vehicles?
Yes you can get closer.

Either by using the Photo Camera mode to get a really nice close-up, or by using Scope action for a more zoomed in view.

There's a lot of people in this thread who have heavily invested in this or that which want to see their particular corner of the game worked on, but I think fixing these fundamental things that will benefit allplayers is smarter than working on systems that only certain people care about. Not saying those various systems shouldn't get their time in the spotlight, but I definitely think fixing the basics is the right priority. The camera controls, movement, and general interaction has been in bad shape for a long time so IMO this is long overdue.
Indeed, and you highlight much of our design philosophy when approaching the Camera & Control system.

This new system is a foundation that will enable our team to tackle many of the issues and design restraints that currently exist.

Once the camera system is implemented, we look forward to adding many other exciting new features and systems that are currently impractical.

Goodbye "open world play", hello sequence of scripted scenes? Well it does suit CryEngine much better, but how well does it suit this game?
We will still keep and expand the open world gameplay in a vibrant and dynamic virtual environment.

One thing I like to do while crafting is position my avatar in a place where I can access the auction, storage, trade terminal, and the crafting machine. Without ever moving.

Has this already been answered? But, will I still be able to do that? Or am I going to have to move my ass a few feet?
That all depends on how close the terminals are to each other but from what I can see there aren’t any specific limitations that would prevent that right now.

New players issues with game isn't the general UI:
How can I put fuel in car.
Refueling vehicles has been simplified and can even be done from inventory via the context menu.

Will we still be able to drag commands out from the action library and click them?
Yes.

PS - hopefully hit boxes are fixed while using auto use tool
PSS - hopefully attack range is same when shooting 1st person vs auto use tool
Big improvements with the Lock Target feature. The range is the same for first and third person.


Hopefully these answers give some clarity on how the new system works.
 

Detritus

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This is the kind of communication people have been asking for, cheers! :)
 

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{DELETED UNNECESSARY QUOTE}

Thank you for all the answers! Well done.
 
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nutrageti

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Please reconsider. I constantly use this and it seem like alot of other participants do as well.

The other changes looks interesting though
Well bring it on already, I can t complain now when you answer all the questions :)) I ll be back when it s launched
 

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Wow.... Wow!

All these guys crying about losing the ability to drag health/status bars from mobs and things... I've been playing this game since 2006 and I NEVER drag health/status bars from ANYTHING, in fact I find it quite annoying when I walk up to a TP to use it and a status bar pops out when all I'm trying to do is click 'Operate'...

I may be the only one who feels that way I guess, but good riddance to an annoying useless feature that has NO use in the game (except healers I guess).
 

fred5283

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Ty for answers - I might be able to hunt Rex now (with the way I play)!
 
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