Convert L$ to PED

[Guardian]

Hello all - n00b question here (and thank you all for having a n00b forum!):

I play Second Life and am just starting to play EU, and I was wondering if there is any way to convert some of my L$ (Linden Dollars) into PED. I know Anshe Chung (famous SL resident) bought one of the Entropia Banking Licenses, so I'm hopeful that this can be done.

Alternatively, if there are any EU players in this forum looking for some L$ in SL, let me know and maybe we can do a private trade between the two games.

Thanks for the help!

 

[Caoryn]

You might want to move this thread to Anshe's parts of the forum...

 

[Shadowsong]

Anshe Bank Entropia currently offers this facility. Check out the sub-forum for details.

 

[sob]

8. Transactions between Participants
The Entropia Universe is fitted with an economy system that enables Participants to carry out secure transactions with other Participants, in which buyers and sellers exchange Virtual Items, Virtual Funds and Real-Life Items (the "Approved Transaction").

You acknowledge that any exchange carried out using any Non-Approved transaction procedure is at your own risk. MindArk reserves the right to take any necessary measures for the purpose of preventing and acting against frauds and Non-Approved Transactions, including, but not limited to, making a reservation against a suspected Transaction, and terminating a directly or indirectly involved Account, if MindArk judges that the Transaction was not performed in compliance to this Agreement.

Additional terms shall apply upon any transaction with Real-Life Items between you and Third Parties. For further information see Third Party's Items Purchase Agreement, available when making transactions with Real-Life items within the Entropia Universe.

i would file a supportcase to make sure they dont lock your account because of it. dealing with anshe at this point is not approved according to the EULA, and accounts have been locked because of this. (this = trading peds outside the universe)

EDIT: sorry i was abit unclear there. accounts has been locked where people traded peds outside entropia. no accounts has been locked dealing with anshe directly that i know of. sorry for my bad choice of words.

 

[aridash]

i should point out that section 8 has nothing to do with this question, you want to read section 12 of the EULA. support have implied to me that this is OK. though they wouldn't be drawn on if this was a bank related feature or not, or if anyone can perform such trades.

 

[sob]

i should point out that section 8 has nothing to do with this question, you want to read section 12 of the EULA. support have implied to me that this is OK. though they wouldn't be drawn on if this was a bank related feature or not, or if anyone can perform such trades.

12. Accounts and Funds Transfers
The Participant may deposit funds and may withdraw funds from his or her PED Card. MindArk may refuse a withdrawal, if unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide or if it is suspected that the withdrawal may involve fraudulent activity. MindArk acknowledges the responsibility to maintain records of all funds transactions. MindArk's transaction records shall be conclusive proof of the transaction carried out to or from your PED card. Account deficits in any situation apart from those described herein are the responsibility of the Participant. MindArk accepts no responsibility for funds misplaced or misused in any incidence, regardless of reason.

All funds transactions into or from the Entropia Universe must be through MindArk's Approved Transaction system. For further information please see the "Deposit" and/or "Withdrawal" sections of the Entropia Universe website.

Additional terms shall apply to any funds withdrawals using the Entropia Universe Cash Card. For further information see the Cash Card Holder Agreement at the Entropia Universe website.

depends if you classify the convertion as a trade or a deposit/withdrawal. personally i would think that both sections are valid here.

the rules are very unclear so my best advice would be to get a clear answer from support or stay away.

 

[Nell]

I am also an SLer and it would be great to be able to do this. Must check out the AC forum.

 

[aridash]

the rules are very unclear so my best advice would be to get a clear answer from support or stay away.

yes it is unclear. problem is support refuses to be drawn on a straight answer. rather than going into my exhustive interogation of support on the matter, i refer you to Marcos comment on the orginal press realease from Anshe, where she announced her Ped/L$ exchange:

I think the press release (which of course was cleared by MindArk before Anshe's release of it) pretty much sums it up. We like enterprising participants in Entropia.

 

[sob]

that makes it even more unclear, especially if you take the clarification regarding the banks and the new way of preventing scam in to consideration.

anshe bought a bank licence to run a pawnshop ingame (according to the information that has been released), not a license to do trades outside the game. if she can do it, anyone can do it. now theres a nightmare that marco was conserned about.
and what stops me from making an avatar and a fake clan deathstalker-soc (or whatever they are called) so i can accept money from people that want to convert through ACE?

this is nothing but a huge mess! and why MA wont make any clear rules does not make sense at all. are they to afraid to do it or are they not capable?

dont take the chance and stay safe... that my advice. you never know what will happen unless MA is 100% clear.


they obviously didnt think entire banking thing through.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

the rules are very unclear so my best advice would be to get a clear answer from support or stay away.

No problem at all. I filled a support if it's forbidden and demanded an answer quickly... got non in two weeks so i assume it's okay.


Ag.

 

[aridash]

anshe bought a bank licence to run a pawnshop ingame (according to the information that has been released), not a license to do trades outside the game. if she can do it, anyone can do it. now theres a nightmare that marco was conserned about.

exactly. but the point is trades outside the game were not explictly banned and Anshe capitalised on this. All funds are still transfered into and out of EU through the approved system, just via Anshe Chung's account.

while everyones been concerned about the bank "clarification", we've all overlooked this new interpretation of the EULA. far more scope for scams here. im sure there would have been a clarification about this too, except the fact that Anshes share issue went ahead and 300k ped was invested. MA is rather stuck with it now.

 

[Wistrel]

Theres no problem with dealing through the anshes website and I can tell you I never got my account locked for chucking peds her way. You shouldn't have any trouble transferring lindens to ped. its pretty cool really

 

[Shadowsong]

dealing with anshe at this point is not approved according to the EULA, and accounts have been locked because of this.

This is not fact, it is opinion.

I have not heard of anyone's account being locked for dealing with Anshe Bank Entropia. I have deposited, traded shares and withdrawn PEDS without any problem. One of my RL friends has transferred L$ to PED, also without problem.

There are many who will attest to this. I would like to hear from anyone whose account has been locked for using ABE, but I suspect there are none.

 

[sob]

This is not fact, it is opinion.

I have not heard of anyone's account being locked for dealing with Anshe Bank Entropia. I have deposited, traded shares and withdrawn PEDS without any problem. One of my RL friends has transferred L$ to PED, also without problem.

There are many who will attest to this. I would like to hear from anyone whose account has been locked for using ABE, but I suspect there are none.

where does it say that Anshes business is approved?
and no, no one has ben locked for dealing with anshe, but people have been locked for dealing with others in the same way (trading peds outside the universe).

 

[Shadowsong]

...
no, no one has ben locked for dealing with anshe
.....

That is the sum of my point. Your initial post made it appear otherwise.

 

[Aziphirael]

Anshe's website allows the transfer of L$ to PED. From I can gather seems to be quite a straightforward system to use. Get into SL and find one of the deposit terminals and deposit your L$. Log into website, check to see if you have your amount and then transfer over. Then withdraw on the other end, which maybe slower as you will need to manually trade with the ACS Avatar in New Oxford.

As to whether it breaks the EULA, MA have been a bit vague but Marco has said they don't believe ACS is breaking the EULA in what they are operating.

 

[psychnosiz]

with anshe at this point is not approved according to the EULA, and accounts have been locked because of this.

I'm sure they'll keep an eye closed as she does have an ingame banking license, and is already waiting for some time to have that setup ... how long will MA "sit" on the cash before allowing the licensees their trade right.

I'm convinced MA is happy with any option or suggestion that allows more ingame peds. (as long as you're not converting peds into L$ that is)
They only don't allow all options because, as history has point out already enough, there are lots of unethical people wanting to do the same thing. So for the coming two years, there will only be 5 with an agreement. After that I'm sure there will be more.

 

[Vap0r]

I'm all about promoting the game and supporting 'free enterprise' but remember where you are and what that means. Your not in kansas nor are you asking questions in a official Mindark forum. This is one of the more popular community run websites- that being said, logic should steer you in the direction of filing a official support case on Mindarks website :http://www.project-entropia.com
That is truly the best way to get a clear ruling on what is ok and what should be avoided. Not to take anything away from Neo or the moderators here, this forum is a good resource with some good people

 

[sob]

That is the sum of my point. Your initial post made it appear otherwise.

ah i see what you mean. i made a bad choice of words there. sorry about that. i edited my initial post.

 

[Shadowsong]

ah i see what you mean. i made a bad choice of words there. sorry about that. i edited my initial post.

Fair enough, your point is much clearer now.

 

[SB2]

I have had no problems transferring L$ into my ACS-Dreamland account... Also, I have withdrawn PED twice and the first trade at New Oxford took less than 3 minutes while the second took less than 5... very fast and "Lovely Sunny Chung", the avatar that meets you in New Oxford is very polite...

 

[kira-red]

while everyones been concerned about the bank "clarification", we've all overlooked this new interpretation of the EULA

some of us haven't and have been making the same point all along.

far more scope for scams here.

yes, there certainly is.

MA is rather stuck with it now.

not really. MA could grow a spine and tell ABE to stop or be sanctioned. end of problem. by permitting ABE to continue with its unsecured operations; MA are effectively saying there will be no punishment for this sort of behaviour unless we get a bunch of complaints and it looks like you're up to something fishy.

so, basically, the door is now wide open for any type of service which is not expressely forbidden an in-game "licence".

I should extend my coin trading service into EU. I'll accept PEDs an in return ship you the coins of your choice from my online trading site. I shuold point out that this business is real and I've been running it for years. it's a member of a well respected coin trading group.

I might even issue shares.

 

[Aziphirael]

not really. MA could grow a spine and tell ABE to stop or be sanctioned. end of problem. by permitting ABE to continue with its unsecured operations; MA are effectively saying there will be no punishment for this sort of behaviour unless we get a bunch of complaints and it looks like you're up to something fishy.

Its tricky, on another forum Marco basically said that what ABE is doing dosen't break the EULA. The press release was released after it had been submitted and approved by MA as well, which seems to be a standard practise of approving something without getting your hands tied.

 

[kira-red]

Its tricky, on another forum Marco basically said that what ABE is doing dosen't break the EULA.

obviously.

the effect, though, is that now anyone can use the very same model and point to the continued unsecured operations of ABE as ascent.

I can run my coin business through EU.
I can run my jewellery manufacturing business through EU.
I can run my photography print business through EU.

(all of these are real business' which I run; and with the exception of the prints they have an internet presence. I'm in the process of updating my sites to include the prints.)

further, I can tie all these together with my in-game activities and sell shares for the whole lot on my own captive exchange.

all of this is not forbidden.

of course, I'm an honest person and would never think of cheating anyone because my reputation is important to me. not everyone else will be so principled. soon there will be "x-treme inventory warehouse" which will purchase goods for resale and other balloon operations which will be legitimite until the owner (money holder) walks away with it all (a la other space game) and laughs.

oh my, marco's nightmare about newcomers being scammed out of their few peds by confidence swindlers is coming true and he helped facilitate it.

The press release was released after it had been submitted and approved by MA as well, which seems to be a standard practise of approving something without getting your hands tied.

in all honesty, any corporate propagandist would not have "approved" anshe's press release. the proper and safe response, after making sure there was nothing offensive, would have been "no comment". saying anything else make it look like you are agreeing. anshe really played MA - in a way it's kind of funny, that is if it wasn't so tragic.

 

[DrPaddo]

I can run my coin business through EU.
I can run my jewellery manufacturing business through EU.
I can run my photography print business through EU.

(all of these are real business' which I run; and with the exception of the prints they have an internet presence. I'm in the process of updating my sites to include the prints.)

As I am working in webhosting I think that involving EU in my work will give advantages both ways:

A: I get more clients for wich I can charge PED (wich is easier for me to Account then changing from € to $ and vice versa), and I can get my client base from around the Globe, instead of turning just to 1 Country (Netherlands)!

B: MindArk gets more promotion (and therefore money (depositors)) as people will need site's to promote Entropia on, and build an own Business, wich is good for economy.

Well this is just looked @ from my perspective...
But you can imagine that more people will eventually benefit from this action

Now if only MindArk would clear things up...

 

[SB2]

I think what people continually fail to realize is that financial functions outside of the trade, repair and auction are areas that need to be experimented with in order to find the right way to move forward integrating the EU economy into a larger spectrum of virtual worlds.

**** QUALIFIER !!!! ****
I DO NOT agree with the conflicting statements made by MA regarding CBE and its board!!! I believe they could have found a more diplomatic means of addressing CBE in the greater context of EU and the bank licensees.
**** END OF QUALIFIER ****

That being said.... (and I really can't believe that I am actually saying this about MA given my more vocal rants in the past)

The only way that MA can safely experiment with various methods of financial functions is to do it in a controlled environment. The controlled environment is what MA created with the banking licenses. This allows the license holders and MA the ability to test these operations in a more or less controlled way by granting the license holders more freedom in how they operate (with prior approval, of course).

I do not believe that anyone on this forum thinks that the banking licenses were designed for one thing and one thing only. No matter what someone (including myself) reading the statement thought about the banks' initial functions, MA also stated that more types of operations were available to the holders. Pawn shops were never going to be the "be all and end all" of banking operations in EU.

MA, in their usual inept way, did everything wrong when they presented the banking system to the player base. They compounded their ineptitude by their actions with CBE. That's a given....

But.... They have now, a controlled environment where they can explore the potential of various financial operations, gauge the effects on the economy and, by restricting these operations to the license holders for the next 2 years, provided a relatively safe means of doing so.

I know I'll take a bunch of negs for this, but these posts have gotten so centered around one or another aspect of the licenses or the holders that people are not seeing the bigger picture. This is new territory for MA and, in my opinion, it needs to be explored. I don't agree with how they present it but I do agree with the big picture.

As for the topic of this post... Anshe is a license holder who received approval from MA to provide shares in her company to players in EU and SL. As a license holder with prior approval from MA, she is allowed to move this experiment forward. This DOES NOT open the door to anyone outside the license holder to do the same because ONLY LICENSE HOLDERS CAN BE APPROVED BY MA TO DO THIS.... Some of these experiments may fail, some may succeed brilliantly. But the experiments have to be done to determine their effect on EU....I know that NEVERDIE as a license holder can, with approval from MA, also sell shares in CND if he so wishes...

We will see many financial ideas come and go as EU opens more and more to the world. But these ideas will, and must be, tested in an environment that can be controlled and reasonably protected.

I know it's a long post... sorry... For those who've reached the end and forgot the qualifier i put at the start, read it again before flaming... thanks...

 

[TrinketSoul]

Hello all - n00b question here (and thank you all for having a n00b forum!):

I play Second Life and am just starting to play EU, and I was wondering if there is any way to convert some of my L$ (Linden Dollars) into PED. I know Anshe Chung (famous SL resident) bought one of the Entropia Banking Licenses, so I'm hopeful that this can be done.

Alternatively, if there are any EU players in this forum looking for some L$ in SL, let me know and maybe we can do a private trade between the two games.

Thanks for the help!

I was wondering how long this would take...

 

[aridash]

not really. MA could grow a spine and tell ABE to stop or be sanctioned. end of problem.

It isnt as simple as that, it would create more problems. 300k has been passed to ABE for shares. How does MA resolve that? Tell Anshe to pay everyone back? but all trades are final. Maybe MA tell Anshe not to honor the shares or allow people to liquidate shares back to Ped? ABE name and business is destroyed. The horse has well and truely bolted, so start up your coin trading.

MA could really get bold and openly permit such practices and openly deal with those that scam, theres an idea. Or go further, id rather see open regulation than the status quo.

 

[aridash]

As for the topic of this post... Anshe is a license holder who received approval from MA to provide shares in her company to players in EU and SL. As a license holder with prior approval from MA, she is allowed to move this experiment forward. This DOES NOT open the door to anyone outside the license holder to do the same because ONLY LICENSE HOLDERS CAN BE APPROVED BY MA TO DO THIS.... Some of these experiments may fail, some may succeed brilliantly. But the experiments have to be done to determine their effect on EU....I know that NEVERDIE as a license holder can, with approval from MA, also sell shares in CND if he so wishes...

But the share issue is not part of the banking licence. The banks have not been implemented yet and you conduct business with ABE through third party, who happens to be an employee of ACS. If MA want to add this ability to the licence retrospectivly, id suggest they would find themselves with more problems especially after their other "clarifcation".

 

[Commodore]

of course, I'm an honest person and would never think of cheating anyone because my reputation is important to me. not everyone else will be so principled.

Yes, your reputation is held in high regard, as I pray mine is with other people. It seems like a lifetime ago, when the majority of ppl respected each other. A negative reputation placed you firmly outside of society and doors would close.

I think that MA has some very good people working for it. Unfortunately they are not countered by equally good ppl in each sector of the company. This leads to a situation where the balancing manager has a bigger schlong than the society manager, net result is EU is very proactive with thumb-screws while the society falls apart. With the excessive tightening of the EU budget, I rarely get to log-off without feeling weary. A whole raft of changes have resulted in negative issues for EU society. Ranging from the economy of TT, resulting in everything of zero value and maximum hassle hitting the TT. Margins that are so tight, little or nothing can be given in charity. Mentoring that has become a sickening charade, I feel so angry when I hear 'OK whatever, when do you give me my gun and ammo and armor'. Where are we heading?

With the spat of ppl leaving EU (um I wonder where to....) and the resultant changes to ESI's that allowed it. I'm amazed that MA protects it's money by allowing for direct exchange from PED (or should that be EUD and EUC) to Linden Dollars. Why I'm I so concerned? Cos sometimes I get tempted to travel to a different place and setup home.