Dev Notes #20 - Mission System

LMTR14

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It's the exact opposite, now you have 3380 new missions (130 groups of mobs x26 ranks) to complete and the last stage is repeatable on all 130 of them. And you can always customize to your heart's desire what type of skill you want. It's a huge step forward, old missions look already so yesterday.
I was (like I wrote) talking about COMPLETIONS. they are counted! e.g. on caly I have (dunno) 500 something. do those go away? will the counter be reset to 0? that is what I asked, and nothing else.
 

Svarog

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I was (like I wrote) talking about COMPLETIONS. they are counted! e.g. on caly I have (dunno) 500 something. do those go away? will the counter be reset to 0? that is what I asked, and nothing else.
The mission log will probably just be removed after the 1 year grace period, along with your counter.
 

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Like most people in game I was excited that we would now see rewards for ALL mobs. I was not however prepared for the frequency and tiny values of the rewards. At first these frequent skill gains seemed exciting but tbh I am no longer sure I like this, and am getting concerns for the future.
I know it is early days and I hope, that this is therefore just a starting point and that something will develop to give us things to strive for, give us that sense of achievement that large mission completion gave.

Plusses :thumbup:
I like that all mobs will now have missions
I like that we don't have to try and find terminals/NPCs etc to hand in the new missions

Hmmm... :scratch2:
I am not sure how we will feel about the game when we no longer have the old missions
When we no longer get that sense of achievement when we complete stages or the kudos among our friends
When we get tired of having to click to claim rewards several times a day, or stand there and click a load once a day. I am already finding it a distraction and getting bored of it.
a wider choice of skills would be nice as current lists seem limited especially for those hunters that are not gun users

Problems (things overlooked ?):rolleyes:
Seriously did no-one at MA consider/realise that other missions in game hang off some of the Iron Missions or their planet partner equivalents ?
Already it is impossible to complete missions to unlock cave on CP
On Ark there are concerns that players will be unable to complete smuggler missions to unlock warehouses as these are dependant on completion of stage 6 of IFN mission on relevant mobs.
I have heard a similar problem exists with 1 or more missions on RT also, but not sure of details
Attribute tokens, many players have small stacks they need to be able to add to in order to claim the skills. Are these to be converted somehow into an attribute gain, or are we to see them re-introduced, perhaps after completion of level 26 or a specified number of repeat missions

so my concerns long term are
what will be the reaction of players that have invested a lot of time, ped, effort to work towards these now broken / potentially broken missions and see it all wasted
will the constant repetition of the new mission rewards and frequency, just make this seem more like another boring shoot em up rather than have the challenges we are used to.

come on MA, you have made a great start :) but you need to continue with communication and let us know how you intend to fix things and how it can be developed, and show us you can really make this game somewhere we want to be for another 15 years :bowdown:
 

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Like most people in game I was excited that we would now see rewards for ALL mobs. I was not however prepared for the frequency and tiny values of the rewards. At first these frequent skill gains seemed exciting but tbh I am no longer sure I like this, and am getting concerns for the future.
I know it is early days and I hope, that this is therefore just a starting point and that something will develop to give us things to strive for, give us that sense of achievement that large mission completion gave.

Plusses :thumbup:
I like that all mobs will now have missions
I like that we don't have to try and find terminals/NPCs etc to hand in the new missions

Hmmm... :scratch2:
I am not sure how we will feel about the game when we no longer have the old missions
When we no longer get that sense of achievement when we complete stages or the kudos among our friends
When we get tired of having to click to claim rewards several times a day, or stand there and click a load once a day. I am already finding it a distraction and getting bored of it.
a wider choice of skills would be nice as current lists seem limited especially for those hunters that are not gun users

Problems (things overlooked ?):rolleyes:
Seriously did no-one at MA consider/realise that other missions in game hang off some of the Iron Missions or their planet partner equivalents ?
Already it is impossible to complete missions to unlock cave on CP
On Ark there are concerns that players will be unable to complete smuggler missions to unlock warehouses as these are dependant on completion of stage 6 of IFN mission on relevant mobs.
I have heard a similar problem exists with 1 or more missions on RT also, but not sure of details
Attribute tokens, many players have small stacks they need to be able to add to in order to claim the skills. Are these to be converted somehow into an attribute gain, or are we to see them re-introduced, perhaps after completion of level 26 or a specified number of repeat missions

so my concerns long term are
what will be the reaction of players that have invested a lot of time, ped, effort to work towards these now broken / potentially broken missions and see it all wasted
will the constant repetition of the new mission rewards and frequency, just make this seem more like another boring shoot em up rather than have the challenges we are used to.

come on MA, you have made a great start :) but you need to continue with communication and let us know how you intend to fix things and how it can be developed, and show us you can really make this game somewhere we want to be for another 15 years :bowdown:
To be honest the only real issue I see here is the attribute token stacks and hopefully they will allow them to be converted.

The smaller/faster rewards I personally have really been enjoying and they add up fast. For those that don't have alt of time to play or hunt each day and possibly don't have a lot of ped they are great! Ive gaind approx. 2.5hp with the new missions so far and that would have been impossible so fast on previous system :)
 

LavaSparks

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To be honest the only real issue I see here is the attribute token stacks and hopefully they will allow them to be converted.

The smaller/faster rewards I personally have really been enjoying and they add up fast. For those that don't have alt of time to play or hunt each day and possibly don't have a lot of ped they are great! Ive gaind approx. 2.5hp with the new missions so far and that would have been impossible so fast on previous system :)

The new mission system is a game-changer for sure. We can now tailor our skills and gain levels a lot faster than before. That's good news for new players especially. Reward size has also increased (To get 1 ped of Set 1 skills in old mission, you had to cycle 230-300 ped per ped gained - now it's 200 ped per ped gained). You will also get more value of Set 2 skills than before (ratio changed).

All skills (that can pe picked as reward) will be devaluated and will approach ESI price pretty fast since all mobs have repeatable free-to-choose Rank 26, but that's just part of the RCE.

Melee - well, both light melee weapon skill and melee combat skill have jumped one set up (they were Set 2/3, now Se 1/2 respectively), so they are a lot easier to skill up. Same goes for mind force - From Set 3 to Set 2 (i..e doubling of reward value).


With some pressure, MA will add tokens and what not as optional mission rewards. The generic setup may become boring for some, so they will have to address that. (TBH I was hoping every/many mobs hade *some* special reward at some point during the mission chain, be it pills, combat/daily token,or some special mission token and a new mission token trader)
 
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When we get tired of having to click to claim rewards several times a day, or stand there and click a load once a day. I am already finding it a distraction and getting bored of it.
It is probably a bit annoying because all starts anew and the first few stages are small, just like in the old system, only even more fine-grained. This will outgrow itself as we move on to the longer stages.

Does someone know whether rewards can be lost if you skip claiming them before completing the next rank? I saw the question posited already but not sure if there was an answer I overlooked in the mass of posts. If there is no loss you can claim at your leisure and will probably no longer feel a distraction after just a little while.
 

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It is probably a bit annoying because all starts anew and the first few stages are small, just like in the old system, only even more fine-grained. This will outgrow itself as we move on to the longer stages.

Does someone know whether rewards can be lost if you skip claiming them before completing the next rank? I saw the question posited already but not sure if there was an answer I overlooked in the mass of posts. If there is no loss you can claim at your leisure and will probably no longer feel a distraction after just a little while.
I have completed stages 1 and 2 and then claimed the rewards for both stages (separately). I don't know if you can do more than that.
 

mspatterson

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ive done upto 3 stages complete so far without claiming and was able to click claim 3x after so it seems to save them properly
 
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It is probably a bit annoying because all starts anew and the first few stages are small, just like in the old system, only even more fine-grained. This will outgrow itself as we move on to the longer stages.

Does someone know whether rewards can be lost if you skip claiming them before completing the next rank? I saw the question posited already but not sure if there was an answer I overlooked in the mass of posts. If there is no loss you can claim at your leisure and will probably no longer feel a distraction after just a little while.
I have around 40 rewards unclaimed so far.
 
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San

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Good to know! Thanks
 

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If someone from MA could please give some kind of answer to the following questions please, especially #2:

1. When will the Codex be implemented on other planets/moons?

2. When the Codex is implemented on other planets/moons will we also have a year *from that time* to finish old style missions?
 

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[h=2]Dev Notes #20 - Mission System[/h] Hunting Mission System

Implementation
As this is a completely new system that will replace the current mission system, progress in existing missions unfortunately cannot be carried over into the new system. Therefore, we are taking this opportunity to give all participants an alert to the upcoming changes several months in advance so that they have time to complete any active missions.

There will also be a grace period where both the new and old systems will work in tandem, during which time kills on qualifying creatures will result in progress on both the old and new versions of the Hunting Challenge missions. This grace period will extend approximately one year from the implementation of the new mission system.

Example
You have the current “Iron Atrox IV” mission active. After the implementation of the new mission system, for each kill of a qualifying Atrox creature, you will receive progress on the new Atrox Hunting Challenge mission as well as on the legacy "Iron Atrox IV" mission. If you fulfill the requirements for the Iron Atrox IV mission during the grace period, you will receive the usual reward, but you will not be able to begin the legacy Iron Atrox V mission. Instead, you will automatically receive the next stage of the (new system) Atrox Hunting Challenge mission.​

When the one year grace period has elapsed, all missions from the old system will be disabled for all participants. Progress will no longer be possible for the deprecated missions, and uncompleted missions will not provide any rewards.

There will be a similar grace period of one year from the implementation of the new mission system for Planet Partners. More info and specific dates will be provided as the Planet Partner implementation draws nearer.
This is just awful. I don't know any reputable game developer who makes changes that will erase progress. I like to jump from mission to mission, so most of my kill counts are either working toward the 5k or the 10k, having planned to complete maybe half a dozen or so at a time. We're talking 60+ missions on Calypso alone. Erasing my progress will permanently remove my desire to work toward completion on anything.

As far as I can tell, the new missions do not offered attributes or attribute tokens, so the majority of us are going to be screwed out of attributes as well as kill counts. It seems like a load of bullshit that you cannot implement a system where we won't be screwed in one way or another. Who did you get to design this idiotic system that can't transfer progress, Bernie Madoff? As a long time depositor, my desire to deposit further has dropped to zero.

:mad:
 

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If someone from MA could please give some kind of answer to the following questions please, especially #2:

1. When will the Codex be implemented on other planets/moons?

2. When the Codex is implemented on other planets/moons will we also have a year *from that time* to finish old style missions?
bottom paragraph of dev post

There will be a similar grace period of one year from the implementation of the new mission system for Planet Partners. More info and specific dates will be provided as the Planet Partner implementation draws nearer.
 

DavinFelth

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As far as I can tell, the new missions do not offered attributes or attribute tokens, so the majority of us are going to be screwed out of attributes as well as kill counts. It seems like a load of bullshit that you cannot implement a system where we won't be screwed in one way or another. Who did you get to design this idiotic system that can't transfer progress, Bernie Madoff? As a long time depositor, my desire to deposit further has dropped to zero.

:mad:
Sounds like MA... idiotic system that screws people. I've just tried to focus on the few missions I either care about finishing or are close enough to finish. If I'm 500/10k something and I loose that I don't care, but yea it's still some bogus stuff. It's also lame that the rewards for codex just repeat over and over - there are a lot of other skills.
Also I know MA is slow as hell and never makes good on statements, plans, or roadmaps so I feel confident in not seeing them end anytime soon.
 

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This is just awful. I don't know any reputable game developer who makes changes that will erase progress. I like to jump from mission to mission, so most of my kill counts are either working toward the 5k or the 10k, having planned to complete maybe half a dozen or so at a time. We're talking 60+ missions on Calypso alone. Erasing my progress will permanently remove my desire to work toward completion on anything.

As far as I can tell, the new missions do not offered attributes or attribute tokens, so the majority of us are going to be screwed out of attributes as well as kill counts. It seems like a load of bullshit that you cannot implement a system where we won't be screwed in one way or another. Who did you get to design this idiotic system that can't transfer progress, Bernie Madoff? As a long time depositor, my desire to deposit further has dropped to zero.

:mad:
Yes, this trust violation has destroyed my interest in working towards completions also. The reasonable solution is to put irons back in as they were, except make none of them repeatable.

As an afterthought, it wouldn't hurt to throw in a few token-reward missions that amount to long grinds on boring super low level stuff, to help level the attribute field a little bit and bring Icarus a little closer to the sea... yes it would mean the Ubers would be not quite so extremely Uber in comparison, but it would improve the game for everyone by improving its overall balance. My two pecs
 
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Bolivar

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I love it! Finally a chance to do different kind of grinding. Because let's face it.. nobody would ever be able to finish all missions. I really wanted to though. :laugh:
Finishing Gold Argonaut soon, then taking a crack at Silver Atrox, but will be difficult to finish that one. When is the deadline anyway? Is there a date set?
 

Rock Stone

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09-24-2019, 09:10

One year from 09-24-2019, 09:10
I had a bunch of Iron I missions that I recently finished.
In my first year I signed up for all the Iron missions I could so I didn't miss out on any exp while hunting.
Most of these I would not have been able to finish with such low skills and armor.
This year I was able to solo everything but one of the robot missions.
I finished a few IVs and Vs

I have one Iron IV left with 2800 kills to go.

Mob diversity is mute now as far as experience is concerned!
I can kill the same creature over and over till the end of time and get the same reward.

Now if MA ever listened to anyone? they could add a mission at the end of rank 24, a new mission that could be done and disable the Codex for that particular mob.
A reward like a trophy, with a bigger PED experience reward, and an attribute.
"Congratulations you have completed level 24, "Report to Captain Obvious for Iron Mission I?" "Repeat Rank 24?"

I know it can exist in parallel with the Codex because it already does.
That would give the I want it now crowd a choice as well as the grinders!
The experience would still flow better than before and we could have more fun with both as we are now..

They have done lots for the game the last 2 years and I appreciate that!
It's not all bad.
Please keep an open mind!
 

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Bumping this thread for players and MA to see.

Look at the list of players and names in here and how everyone felt.
Thought it would be a good fresh reminder before MA pushes that button.

I really think MA should convert progress over.
Maybe the community can help you with the calculations if it is hard, or too much work.

P.s. not looking to start any fights, I consider this serious stuff. And Im allowed to have my opinions.
 

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Hi everyone!

Thanks for all the feedback and to hear all your concerns. We take them seriously and we hope that you will be happy with this new system in the end.

Here are some answers to your questions plus a small teaser :D.




Monria will not be in the first release.




Correct.




Space creatures will be included in the first release of the Hunting Challenge.




It is now updated.




This is not true. We will still have other types of missions that might be more specific to a location or more advanced objectives. Now with the Hunting Challenge we know that every player will have access to the previous know Iron Missions for all creatures so that we focus on creating better and more interesting missions.




This is one of the reasons why we are doing this.




We don’t want you to be unhappy with the new system and the transition from the old. We will have a look at this again when we are closing in on a year after this release to see what actions are necessary to make it feel fair.




After the release and during the grace period you will not be able to start the next part of the chain. The first stage of the new system is available on the release as soon as have it unlocked.

We are on schedule for the release which is at the end of September if all goes as
Quotes from MA to show its not too late to enact change!
 

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Bumping this thread for players and MA to see.

Look at the list of players and names in here and how everyone felt.
Thought it would be a good fresh reminder before MA pushes that button.

I really think MA should convert progress over.
Maybe the community can help you with the calculations if it is hard, or too much work.

P.s. not looking to start any fights, I consider this serious stuff. And Im allowed to have my opinions.
They totally don't care about the playerbase, it's been like that for years and it's getting worse and worse. Why would they listen to the players ?
Those hunting challenges were too good for us, giving us a goal to achieve; once again, they remove something that is good for "their """"beloved"""" community.
 

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They totally don't care about the playerbase, it's been like that for years and it's getting worse and worse. Why would they listen to the players ?
Those hunting challenges were too good for us, giving us a goal to achieve; once again, they remove something that is good for "their """"beloved"""" community.
Sadly, that may be true but I refuse to believe that.

I believe there is still hope.

What they should still care about is their profits:

I'm not sure if MA understands what they are enacting by this strategy of this conversion which is now set to drag on for another year at least with all of the planet partners....

I can try to explain:
For the entire userbase that is not uber or has unlimited funds, the correct strategy for the past year and for the next year is going to ONLY hunt what is conceivable to finish. Full stop.
Common game strategy would dictate to target all missions you can set yourself up for double rewards.
This means no big hunts, stopping any long term larger mobs you might have been chipping away at everytime you were flush with some extra peds, no giving events a shot, less time spent mining... on and on.
Yes MA stands to lose a lot by forcing its playerbase into a game strategy that neither the player enjoys nor promotes the most profit for MA.
 

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@Stefan 008 Bond Look, you joined 2007 (at least to the forum) and even if you were just playing off and on since then you should know that MA follows its strategy/path and not necessarily something that gets input from the player base.

Another thing: Initially they gave us one month to finish iron missions and then they said they give us one year. Now think: Was that really because of players complaining? Maybe some heavy depositors helped them think? Or was it a planned stunt all together, because they knew complaints would be coming in?

I really think MA should convert progress over.
That simply is not possible. For this to work they would have needed to collect data about each and every shot (weapon decay + ammo) and mob activity (armour decay) as far as cycled PEDs is concerned or at least on a per-mob basis. And if their mission system didn't include that in their math there was no reason to implement/store this. Hence, you could only do an (unfair) conversion now based on averages across players that nobody would agree on. I mean I would definitely win here, because I don't use armour (yep, my strategy).

Who knows, maybe they didn't even count the different kills on maturities?
 

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For the entire userbase that is not uber or has unlimited funds, the correct strategy for the past year and for the next year is going to ONLY hunt what is conceivable to finish. Full stop.
Common game strategy would dictate to target all missions you can set yourself up for double rewards.
This means no big hunts, stopping any long term larger mobs you might have been chipping away at everytime you were flush with some extra peds, no giving events a shot, less time spent mining... on and on.
That's pretty wrong. Any player with a bit of experience would recommend their disciples to not for Iron Missions because it's a sure loss if the mob is bad, as in it loot is not in demand enough to make up for the tt loss. Encouraging this bad play style leads to more frustration and slow down and even stop any activity. Getting skill from rewards is pretty silly of it ends up costing you a lot....
Common sense and logic should dictate that the game strategy would always imply to farm markup, uber or noob, rich or poor, because the skill would follow, much faster and cheaper if not free or on profit....

The total number of players with started Irons is so large that a compensation is most likely not possible technically. The two systems are based on different calculations so it's probably not possible to transfer progress either.
Instant boosting everyone with bits from mission would also not be fair to those who finished them a to z so what the players can hope to get extra on the new codex is probably the attribute tokens everyone desires so bad...
An extended period of grace is probably useless since if you haven't done the missions in the past year, probably you wouldn't have done it anyway, in a decent potential grace period (say 2 years).

It's not ideal to loose the irons but I'm pretty sure everyone that wanted to finish their most important stages, did. Let the old system go and let's see some new stuff on the new system soon.
 

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@Stefan 008 Bond Look, you joined 2007 (at least to the forum) and even if you were just playing off and on since then you should know that MA follows its strategy/path and not necessarily something that gets input from the player base.

Another thing: Initially they gave us one month to finish iron missions and then they said they give us one year. Now think: Was that really because of players complaining? Maybe some heavy depositors helped them think? Or was it a planned stunt all together, because they knew complaints would be coming in?



That simply is not possible. For this to work they would have needed to collect data about each and every shot (weapon decay + ammo) and mob activity (armour decay) as far as cycled PEDs is concerned or at least on a per-mob basis. And if their mission system didn't include that in their math there was no reason to implement/store this. Hence, you could only do an (unfair) conversion now based on averages across players that nobody would agree on. I mean I would definitely win here, because I don't use armour (yep, my strategy).

Who knows, maybe they didn't even count the different kills on maturities?
MA has definitely considered input from the user base before, they have their faults, but credit where its due.
It is nearly as complicated for a conversion or payout of achieved progress as you make it out to be, even using the new system.

Something as simple as taking all hp killed = 2.55dpp or even 2.0dpp would more than suffice and underestimate to the downside.

So: 500 mobs killed with 1000hp at 2.5 dpp or 2.0dpp would be the conversion formula.
Does that seem difficult?
 

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I don't see why MA is not able to just keep going like this, not being able to add new iron missions but letting the players who have missions in progress finish at their own pace,
it's a long term game , why MA will oblige that playerbase to abandon there missions . it's stupid
 

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Evey, i wrote some other things showing how easy it could be to convert and that they owe us 3 more weeks even if they are planning to move forward.

We also cant assume everyone has a mentor or has anywhere near the sophisticated game strategies that you or I or other longntime players employ. Thats why i said common game strategy.
And still, even with our strategies lets be honest, its going to be a heavy dose of that basic strategy for the next year with some other mu% things mixed in. There are plenty of mobs with irons that have some salvageable mu% especially on the other planets
 

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The total number of players with started Irons is so large that a compensation is most likely not possible technically. The two systems are based on different calculations so it's probably not possible to transfer progress either.
Instant boosting everyone with bits from mission would also not be fair to those who finished them a to z so what the players can hope to get extra on the new codex is probably the attribute tokens everyone desires so bad...
There is no technically challenging part to awarding partial rewards. It would likely require a lot of database reads and take a bit of time, but if that was the desired outcome, it should not be a problem. Converting progress should not be much of a problem either, since it's just based on cost, award progress based on average playerbase and be done with it.

It would not be fair to those who finished them, that is indeed true, and in my opinion the best reason of not giving partial rewards. This could however also be remedied by attaching a multiplier. Say you only get 50% of the reward of a partially completed mission, or even 25%. This would likely be enough to make some players feel like they didn't "waste" the progress entirely, while still being decently fair to the rest of the playerbase..

The problem I see as the main one for not giving partial rewards is the multiple-choice aspect of missions. If it was as simple as "kill X mobs get Y reward" it would be trivial to come up with a way to satisfy most customers in a non-technically demanding way. But the multiple choice aspect of missions means that you would either have to "keep irons in" and award partial rewards that way (while disabling progress) which would likely require a "new" interface. Or that MA would choose the reward, either at random or by design.


I finished most of the Irons I wanted to, so I don't really care either way. Sure, if I would get a bunch of free skills, I'd be thrilled. But on the other hand, the missions I have left is basically worth nothing to me (otherwise, i would have finished them). Just pointing out that if they wanted to take the route of rewarding partial completions, it wouldn't need to be hard to make it somewhat fair.
 

Flash

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Blixt "Flash" Gordon
I don't see why MA is not able to just keep going like this, not being able to add new iron missions but letting the players who have missions in progress finish at their own pace,
it's a long term game , why MA will oblige that playerbase to abandon there missions . it's stupid
This says it all !!
 

j4ck3ss

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gaetan J4ck3ss cochet
All ego all responsible

DEV NEED GIVE SKILLS TO PLAYER COMPARED STAGE ADVANCED

Totally irresponsible for taking away money and times for a big change of game
 
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