Dev Notes #20 - Mission System

Granny Rowan

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It will be at least one year which means it will include next years migration.
Thank you for the prompt reply and clarification, I am sure that will make a lot of difference to how myself and others will play for the next month or so until end of migration, especially as we now have a year to tidy up other missions :)

Gone from despair to cautious optimism and curiosity of how new system will refresh the missions and take EU forward to the next phase :)
 

endermigne

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One year now, OK, that's better.

I assume that all you posters also have

created a
support
case

? Yes? Give them something to type.

Besides that you just have to look at it from MA's POV:

  • they force you to finish the mission(s) you've started -> directly more income
  • they cut everybody who fail to finish a mission in time -> indirectly more income as the player has to restart a similar mission in the new system and do something to be where he/she was at the time of the cut as far as the progress in a mission is concerned
I mean they count on the numbers and they usually say that some will leave, but some will join -> 's all good, man (Better Call Saul reference...)

Currently they force me to get 30k kill points out of Berycleds. Doesn't sound like much, but I'm not printing PEDs here...
 

Joat

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also if we are in teams hunting say wombana for example, there are missions to kill x amount of them so will we each get credited kill count on a killed mob or will it be whoever did the most damage as b4?
....
My guess is that if you have a team of 10 and everyone do damage of 10% of hp, everyone get 10% of
a point in the progress of that mission.
 

jambon

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As the systems are not compatible this is not possible. They will also have more ranks/steps than the previous Iron Mission chain. As the rewards are different too, where you can choose from a larger selection of skills, we feel that it is better for everyone to start from first rank to gain the most benefit from it.
Yes, I can see this as being good to give people a whole new chain of iron missions to go through with new rewards.

However, beyond the extended grace period is it possible to some how compensate people for the progression in missions that will be lost? There must be some way to allow people to feel they aren't losing all the progress with nothing in return?

Maybe a ton of those robot data fragments that can be exchanged for boxes that can be resold or something? Or maybe come up with a new set of boxes with a SERIOUSLY BAD ASS ring and make an event of it? All progression on existing missions will be rewarded with "Skill Data Fragments" that can be exchanged for the new Skill Strongboxes which contain some awesome shit like mayhem amps, candy canes and a new ring.

Very little cash out of pocket for you and I'd be happy getting a few hundred boxes I could sell for a few hundred peds or open with the chance for some sweet high markup loot.
 
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valentin

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Dear MA give one date to us and then wait 1 year before you do this new thing with missions that in my mind is ok.
 

thewebbie

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It will be at least one year which means it will include next years migration.
So is this a change of language of "approximately one year"?

We will all hold your feet to the fire on this promise.

It is still BS your can't migrate data. If you won't do that how about some compensation for all the points on all the missions we are going to be loosing?
 

LuisArkadov

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So is this a change of language of "approximately one year"?

We will all hold your feet to the fire on this promise.

It is still BS your can't migrate data. If you won't do that how about some compensation for all the points on all the missions we are going to be loosing?
Totally agree!

So these 2 systems are totally incompatible yet you plan to run them in parallel for 1 year. What could possibly go wrong?

As an aside, are the fundational services running behind the scenes already and that's why we have this insane lag?

I so want to like the changes as going forward I believe some of the proposals will improve the social interaction. team, shared etc...

Yet inevitably losing possibly 100ks of ped cycled (even with 1 year 'grace' period) is really an outlandish suggestion to me.

I could even see how a conversion is too much hassle to take forward into the new system. However in such case you guys gotta find a way to compensate. Skill as a commodity is near dead so what's the big deal?

Pay out pro rata and i'd still just accept with grinding teeth. Getting 50% reward on stage 5 still means i won't continue to last (possibly repeatable) stage 6 but instead may have to start from 0.

Have you done the numbers game? Suppose 100% of players now finish 50% of their pending missions/mission stages and lose the other 50%. How much cycled ped would that equate too? The anger level will be proportional to that.
 

ImUp2Mischief

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Seriously?

Take my years of slow progress away, dozens of mission midway, say goodbye to another longterm player.

What happened to MA keeping their promises? things from the recent AMA but again new useless crap.

Entropia is becoming, Different, not better..

EDIT.. just read it will take at least a year.. Lol
This is 1-2 weeks work max.

This is a distraction or scare tactics to get ya spending..
 

lilmoo

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I'm not so sure about everyone starts the new ones from zero because Berth's post said:

If you fulfill the requirements for the Iron Atrox IV mission during the grace period, you will receive the usual reward, but you will not be able to begin the legacy Iron Atrox V mission. Instead, you will automatically receive the next stage of the (new system) Atrox Hunting Challenge mission.

I don't know if by the "next stage" they mean stage I or stage V of the new Atrox missions.

Also, if I understand this correctly during the year long grace period you will only be able to finish your current stage on any iron missions. You will not be able to advance past that point. So for the next two months or whenever they begin the grace period, those interested should be bumping up iron missions chains they are close to entering the next stage as they will have a year to finish the next level.
 

Geo

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My understanding is that contribution in the new system is based on decay of weapons and tools used to kill the mob at that time.
This is why they can’t simply transfer progress.
How can they represent the contribution from decay for a mob that was killed years ago?
There is also the difference in kills to kill points.

Also, they mentioned there will be more stages for each mission and this could mean that the new stages would have varying amounts of kill points required compared to the current ones.

But I agree, the very least they can do is compensate with a % of the reward that would of been earned based on current progress in that mission or introduce new tokens for each kill point that can be exchanged for skills or something.
 
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Aloisius

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My understanding is that contribution in the new system is based on decay of weapons and tools used to kill the mob at that time.
This is why they can’t simple transfer progress.
How can they represent the contribution from decay for a mob that was killed years ago?

But I agree, the very least they can do is compensate with a % of the reward that would of been earned based on current progress in that mission or introduce new tokens for each kill point that can be exchanged for skills or something.
or think of something to compensate.

this game is a lot about avatar status and reputation. often bragging points are discussed on soc chat(oh fuk fix the soc chat puh-leeese). so it would be nice to have something to hang with your trophy heads and certificates of acheivements. not like consolation (because, uh well, nm), but like proof that we did something that no longer exists. (side note: i hate trophys and apartment stuff because - real estate has no intrinsic value with not much use past storing trophies.)

my soc chat channel also revealed to me the fact that we'll be running both old and new missions which would be equal to double rewards for some that finish. all in all i think it's better than it sounds. when i looked over my missions they are not like 100% losses. some are sacrificeable and some are important to finish.

lots of ubers dont even bother with missions, so, theres that. the new system sounds intriguing, as well, possibly making team hunting way better. overall, i think it's gonna be a positive, if not great, change.
 

Edward-James

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or think of something to compensate.

this game is a lot about avatar status and reputation. often bragging points are discussed on soc chat(oh fuk fix the soc chat puh-leeese). so it would be nice to have something to hang with your trophy heads and certificates of acheivements. not like consolation (because, uh well, nm), but like proof that we did something that no longer exists. (side note: i hate trophys and apartment stuff because - real estate has no intrinsic value with not much use past storing trophies.)

my soc chat channel also revealed to me the fact that we'll be running both old and new missions which would be equal to double rewards for some that finish. all in all i think it's better than it sounds. when i looked over my missions they are not like 100% losses. some are sacrificeable and some are important to finish.

lots of ubers dont even bother with missions, so, theres that. the new system sounds intriguing, as well, possibly making team hunting way better. overall, i think it's gonna be a positive, if not great, change.


Yes..would also love something as "writing over to the new system"...even its its like -->you had 50% on old systems stage-->new system has this stage divided in halfs ( bec ludvid said..there will be more stages/parts withing a chain)-->so then you get like 70 % on new system --> its still a bit of % lesser for the player but it is something to work on and noone has then any fear to "migrate"

or create an npc with token or something who cuts off your % of stage-> and you hand in some token or % within the new stage...
or the npc has a list to convert 20%,40%,60%,80% where the player can choose the conversation rate (many possibilites would be there in theory)
Then also the ppl could then convert their own missions manually within the time period given and start to work on within the new system....way lesser stressier :))


--> Alosious you said soc chat revealed double rewards....for my understanding you get only the credit within both systems but only 1x time the reward (double credit becuase then the new systems stage can advance and suit your old systems progress)

And yes as also said in my former posts...this change takes the game to the 21st century..with many new options (new bestiary /mob info display,new scanning thingies +infos,teams for high end mobs..etc etc)

i dunno if i will make with my like 15 open thingies in the 5k/10k area within the time period given(thx tho for extending to 1 yr instead of 1 month), i also am willing to safcrifice some missions there (not counting for other planets)...but there has to be something.....

Eddie
 
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trance

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If you won't do that how about some compensation for all the points on all the missions we are going to be loosing?
THIS. the only way to be fair to your customers! Yes, MA we are your customers, and get handled like a pain. You know we are the ppl, pay your company ond jobs?
 

wizz

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My understanding is that contribution in the new system is based on decay of weapons and tools used to kill the mob at that time.
This is why they can’t simply transfer progress.
How can they represent the contribution from decay for a mob that was killed years ago?
.
Interesting.
This would imply that, in the new system, you would need to kill more mobs if you hunt with a high eco/eff weapon than with a low eco weapon. :rolleyes:

So, with a low eco rifle you would progress faster?

Price drop on uber eco weapons?
 

jetsina

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It will be at least one year which means it will include next years migration.
Thanks from me too for the quick reply.
The other points made are a bit more complex, but I understand if you don't yet know the answers yourselves.

Like Granny, I am more relaxed about not being pushed around and robbed if the timeframe is more than one year from now. I would, however, hope for progress on more of the things we have been waiting for, rather than on new systems such as this one. Still, maybe you wish to add taming missions or harvesting missions or whatever, but don't want to let the secret out yet. ;)
 

thewebbie

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Compensate us!

I don't expect anymore statements from MA. Each time the foot goes further into mouth.

Personally I am not comfortable logging in and playing anymore. I have been told that all the years of effort and the $$$$$ Thousands of DOLLARS (not ped, real USD) is going to be wiped out. The claim is a real world economy. If this is the case not transferring progress to the new missions is just the same as if my employer said.

"We are changing to a new retirement program. The two programs are not compatible so you will loose all your contributions made to date and start over with a $0 balance."

That what this looks like to me. We are being robbed of our investments into the "real world economy".

For me mission progress is my account statement. Zero out my missions you zero out my money.

These are options I will accept for me to even consider logging in again.

1. Transfer progress in real data or a % of progress.
2. Compensate me in PED, skills or quality UL equipment.
3. Run both mission systems concurrently forever. I finished Kerbs. So give me the new kerb mission. Let me finish all others.

This is unfortunate. I am very close to Master BLP. I was going to depo enough to buy a high quality UL gun as my personal reward. I am 5 levels away from Force Merge. Its taken more than a DECADE to get to this point!!!

Migration is the ONE event every year that I enjoy the most. Where I make the most progress. I feel like I lost my best friend. This sucks.
 

Geo

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Interesting.
This would imply that, in the new system, you would need to kill more mobs if you hunt with a high eco/eff weapon than with a low eco weapon. :rolleyes:

So, with a low eco rifle you would progress faster?

Price drop on uber eco weapons?

I still think killing a mob solo will award the same amount of kill points, in the new system, regardless of how eco you are.
The difference would be when hunting in a group or shared mob. Your contribution reward will be based on decay rather than damage done.
 

trance

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I don't expect anymore statements from MA. Each time the foot goes further into mouth.

Personally I am not comfortable logging in and playing anymore. I have been told that all the years of effort and the $$$$$ Thousands of DOLLARS (not ped, real USD) is going to be wiped out. The claim is a real world economy. If this is the case not transferring progress to the new missions is just the same as if my employer said.

"We are changing to a new retirement program. The two programs are not compatible so you will loose all your contributions made to date and start over with a $0 balance."

That what this looks like to me. We are being robbed of our investments into the "real world economy".

For me mission progress is my account statement. Zero out my missions you zero out my money.

These are options I will accept for me to even consider logging in again.

1. Transfer progress in real data or a % of progress.
2. Compensate me in PED, skills or quality UL equipment.
3. Run both mission systems concurrently forever. I finished Kerbs. So give me the new kerb mission. Let me finish all others.

This is unfortunate. I am very close to Master BLP. I was going to depo enough to buy a high quality UL gun as my personal reward. I am 5 levels away from Force Merge. Its taken more than a DECADE to get to this point!!!

Migration is the ONE event every year that I enjoy the most. Where I make the most progress. I feel like I lost my best friend. This sucks.
This is exactly what i feel, if i think at this all. I be also a miner, and crafter and hunter too, I be a allround skiller. This means, some times i hunt, some times i mine and also craft my mining stuff. So, there is less time for me to mine and craft, if i will finish all my open missions. I also will loose the LT mission about i dont get much kills while the event is. That way i cant get enough points this year and also next year in event.

It is also a pain to get forced to finish all missions, just so we dont loose it, and in same case we can't mine nor craft, about all the time would be used to finish open missions. This game is about hunt, mining and craft and some ppl doing all 3! So ppl like me, doing more as just hunt, will be not able to finish a lot of the missions.

If i loose this mission , then i loose a lot of my time, effort and also peds, i invested to this missions.
As a customer, i will feel like some one has stolen all this, and the painfull part, the thief would be the company, i support with my time, and real life money. This will break all my thrust i have to this company and also to the game. This would be the end of my avatar and life in EU. Maybe some will call this crying, but no it is just what will hapen here on my side. There are plenty of nice games out, i can play.

I realy ask for a reward of the missions we will loose. Or enough time to finish all mission, where 1 year is not enought for some ppl.

All other things of the new mission system are nice and welcome, but delete for what we worked and invested, is a no go for me!
 

Darth Revan

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I suggest they just let us take whatever time we need to finish the mission we currently have in progress, once you have finished that stage, thats it, you can no longer progress in that mission on the old system and must move to the new system. I'm sure there are ton's of people still on the first stage of kill 100 mobs, etc, so wont take long for majority of those missions to get completed. That way all the progress one has made in a specific mission is not lost and MA will slowly gain the resources back as stages are completed.
 

BBpunisher

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Boss: One year to complete existing missions.
Intern: I still don't think that's enough time.
Boss: Start off by telling them one month and then later we will tell them one year and they'll be happy.
 

trance

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Boss: One year to complete existing missions.
Intern: I still don't think that's enough time.
Boss: Start off by telling them one month and then later we will tell them one year and they'll be happy.
this is called tactic! :wise: ;)
 

jetsina

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One reason for not letting people finish in their own time is that MA may wish to remove the old code. While I agree that people with multiple 5-10k missions open may feel a bit rushed, one year is a compromise. Whether one month was a (stupid) tactic, or just stupidity, we may never know.

My feeling is that EU players have GOALS, more strongly so and with far more patience and slow determination than players of anything else that shall remain nameless. Don't lightly mess with our goals, MA, it is what drives us (=keeps us paying you).

On the other hand, all those missions which are not changing use code which will have to be kept, surely. But what do I know? ;)
 

LavaSparks

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EU player base spot on!


Surprisingly found this in my YouTube feed

That's a video everyone should see. Almost all EU players (5 % skimming club not included) tick most or ALL boxes:

- They (me included) are victim of the sunken cost fallacy
- People who rage when they see someone else hoffing on "their" mob = victim of gambler's fallacy
- Need to use credit card to deposit (gamble more than you can afford) = gamble addict
- Using ingame banks/pawn shops to squeese out a few more kills (combo of the above)
- loot boxes = microtransactions that won't satisfy you even when buying 1000s
- High withdrawal fee to keep most small/medium players from withdrawing (+ skills worth close to nada, not worth it)
- Hof list and swirlies clearly made to hook people (how boring without the swirlies! How not addicting!)
- when losing, people cook up reasons why MA is against them, how unfair the game is, raging, fuming = clear signs of gambling addiction
- I can go on and on.... watch the vid!
 

moondog

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I have a few comments :

About the video, very informative but probably not anything the majority of the player base are not already aware of and if they are not they should be. Most players here play their own game which is the beauty of EU. You can choose to play however you want, if you get dragged into the psychology and marketing techniques of the gaming companies then you only have ourself to blame. What does concern me is the impact the gaming companies have on younger players who may not have the experience or the common sense to look at how the companies operate. I am sat on a quite a few boxes but I will no open them until I need to depo or decide to sell them.

On a separate note, after the original announcement on Saturday, I finished my LT bronze on Sunday and then stopped hunting LT's. I may have managed to complete the silver but with holidays approaching it was touch and go, which is a shame as they have always been my favourite mob. Thankfully the extension to the grace period and the confirmation that next years migration will be included in the current mission system has meant I can start pew pewing them again.

I am interested to see how the new mission system develops so am watching this space.
 

Jan Universe

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There will be not many people against the change in the big picture. (Including me)

Simple solution:
Set a date and time in Q3.
At that time, flag all open iron missions as finished.
(On the kills or killpoints that is achieved at that point)
let the people walk to the NPC, and they can choose between the rewards they want that was available for that mission.
Maybe give 2 weeks time to walk to NPC for those that can't login earlier?
If reward was 10PED on 10000
Customer A: 5000/10000 kills, results in 50% completed, reward 10PED*50%
Don't let them proceed to next stage on the old missions.
And the new style can be released also at that set date and time.
No grace time needed, I assume then. (Less so called heavy load on your servers way earlier)
And no Customer would feel the presure that you are trying to apply on them.

People have a problem with you publicly stealing their invested time and money spend on missions without any decent loot table, to progress on their ava, not to get ripped of again and again.

As I mentioned somewhere else:
You should be mentioned in the guinness book of records, for creating the most shitstorms in history.

And Ludvig, I know you never liked me, but come on, you were also a customer back then, you did not want to get ripped of either, so go kick those muppets in the balls.
 
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Granny Rowan

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MindArk if you are reading this..
This is my heartfelt plea...

Pretty Pretty Pretty PLEASE with a cherry on top, fix the chat system before the vu for the missions. You know and have already stated it will likely need to be tweaked so we can expect several updates/mini updates/server crashes, every one of which causes chaos to those of us that operate private chat channels for societies/ships/customers etc.
It takes literally hours for me and others every time we have to do all the re-invites. If I have to do it more than once a week I strongly suspect I will do it for the convenience of others, and then log off discouraged, disappointed and wondering why I even bother logging in.
If you cant fix it, re-write it, list handling in modern programming is simple.

and before some bright spark tells me to get others to help..I can't, the biggest chat channel I operate is for Kronan (approx. 400 members) , and only the owner can see who is currently on guest list and keep the chat list to match it
 

Detritus

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PCF users: MA, you don't communicate enough!


*MA shares an idea they are working on*


PCF users: WTf thIS is UnACCeptAble I demAnd yOu Do WhaT I WaNT Im uR cuSTomER EU is MY LiFe Im nEVer logGing IN aGAIn YoU guYS canT do ANYthinG riGHt
 

Alina

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PCF users: MA, you don't communicate enough!


*MA shares an idea they are working on*


PCF users: WTf thIS is UnACCeptAble I demAnd yOu Do WhaT I WaNT Im uR cuSTomER EU is MY LiFe Im nEVer logGing IN aGAIn YoU guYS canT do ANYthinG riGHt
they even demand compensation LMAO
 

Jan Universe

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*MA shares an idea they are working on*
Shouldn't they think about what they publish upfront?
And prevent a shitstorm?
Well I don't care, it's not my company, and ceased playing anyway, just scrambling some pec here and there.

Anyway have fun with the Muppet show.
 
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