Developer-Notes--2

[Ragna Rock]

lets make an experiment,... Since there is no personal lootpool its basically a game of chance, if you hit the right button in the right place at the right spot you might actually get something big, or just big enoug to cover some of your previous losses.

Experiment:
Budget:
2k PED = 200 USD
Level 8 amp (not calculating markup) = 0,5 USD or 5 PED per drop on ore
49 drops per amp = 8 amps for the experiment necessary - I know many miners who use this ammount of amps per run.

on the other side: Some of the online cassinos with demo play for their masines like skyvegas or similar. check how much return you get on a video slot with 0,5 USD per spin and how much in EU after 200 USD spent...


you will not get any standard amount, doesnt matter how many times you do this experiment and try to take out a return rate, sometimes it will be big, sometimes you will not get 50% back in total...


Sorry Im bullshitting, and I know the admin, the player base, and MA officials dont like talking about it, I dont like it either, but isnt it funny that a game which is a so called RCE, and which doesnt allow to be brought into connection with any gambling activity looks like, smells like, and even feels like a big gambling platform?

Im probably dissapointed like most of you that there is no cyber god of justice who will one day just give me back 90% of all the PED / USD Ive lost during my in game activities, and god knows I havent shot that much in the sky but I spent most of it into playing, most of it came trough trading, but even that doesnt matter, I generated a lot of turnover, even before entropiatracker arrived, so the ammounts there are probably flawed and not showing the real state of my gameplay. It just pisses me off that the "Normal" players base, including myself, is on the loosing end when playing... I like the game, I like to mine, hunt, craft, but it doesnt make any sense unless I believe that some day I might end up close to a total break even to all my losses, and seeing now that this probably never will happen, just hurts...

 

[Fifth]

most of it came trough trading...

... break even to all my losses

Hmmm? Not that i have anything against traders and resellers, but i believe their profit comes from other peoples deposits. I know it's a hard job and terribly boring but still - all that the trader really loses is his time and energy.

Well, you will never get these back, personal loot pool or no personal loot pool.

 

[Ragna Rock]

Hmmm? Not that i have anything against traders and resellers, but i believe their profit comes from other peoples deposits. I know it's a hard job and terribly boring but still - all that the trader really loses is his time and energy.

Well, you will never get these back, personal loot pool or no personal loot pool.

So this means if someone lootes a rare DNA part, and sells it for 100k, spends it in the game he will never get their shit back? Personal loot pool or no personal lootpool, also I know plenty of storries of non depositors f. I. Svba Qrava who was in the same soc with me at the time of his ATH, hitting over 100k... erhm... erhm... loot pool and shit (rant) (smart bullshit about right and wrong) (rant) (connection between EU and cassino) and so on and so on

BTW: Star is a reseller too... High end one, but yet...

Sorry me drunk

 

[Cail]

So this means if someone lootes a rare DNA part, and sells it for 100k, spends it in the game he will never get their shit back? Personal loot pool or no personal lootpool, also I know plenty of storries of non depositors f. I. Svba Qrava who was in the same soc with me at the time of his ATH, hitting over 100k... erhm... erhm... loot pool and shit (rant) (smart bullshit about right and wrong) (rant) (connection between EU and cassino) and so on and so on

BTW: Star is a reseller too... High end one, but yet...

Sorry me drunk

That is correct, you loot an item worth 100k, it's the same as you just deposited 100k peds (given that you spend them), your earlier activities won't be accounted (nor what you do with those 100k acquired), you'll just keep going on with the flow.

 

[crazy]

infact i can also read into this statement that MA has released

Why pay to play? seems you gain no benifit in providing this company with lots of your spare hard earned cash over a number of years.

All your losses are forgotten, you have no advantage over a noob miner who sweats for 5 weeks and buys some probes

 

[Ragna Rock]

infact i can also read into this statement that MA has released

Why pay to play? seems you gain no benifit in providing this company with lots of your spare hard earned cash over a number of years.

All your losses are forgotten, you have no advantage over a noob miner who sweats for 5 weeks and buys some probes

 

[mrproper]

Hmmm? Not that i have anything against traders and resellers, but i believe their profit comes from other peoples deposits. I know it's a hard job and terribly boring but still - all that the trader really loses is his time and energy.

Well, not that I have anything against depositing crafters but I believe their fun comes from sitting on their asses at the crafting machines and briefly temporarily moving to the auctioneer NPCs. I know it's complicated to talk to many people or loot all your desired materials but they are asking for resellers to manage the flow of materials or they can't play.

Ontopic, I just realized MA signaled that people can exploit the loot process, some players can spend small to get into good loot periods then roll hard to capture all the big loots. Since there is no correction or tracking, they get to keep those goods. If there were a personal loot pool (as in a mediating mechanism, not an actual sum of ped that could limit your loot), then even hacking the client to create exploits would be futile.

Not only the system takes a 10% default tax on loot (even on tool uses like the skill extraction, texturing and painting tools), but they keep all the fuel, armor and fap decay, auction fees, event fees, planet fees, decay from non-loot generating tools and so on.

The cost of play is high. They say skills are important and you get "better" as you progress. Better at what? Needing more money to stay in the game?

 

[Ragna Rock]

The cost of play is high. They say skills are important and you get "better" as you progress. Better at what? Needing more money to stay in the game?

My point in one of the previous responses, the impact of skills is best seen in hunting where your average dmg rises with the same tool, meaning you spend less for the same ammount of killed mobs, in miing you can use better gear with more skills, but this means almost nothing since the cost / drop stays the same, crafting also, you have the option to use higher lvl bps, which are proportionally higher TT value / klick, you get a rise in the ROI, but the ROI is still < 100% which means if you dont have a market to the goods you craft you loose all the time.

in the end it all comes to this that 99% of the time you are actually trying to get a big one and not rly working towards some stable positive return, since the in game mehanics are laid out like this.... on the other hand the market demand for 99.9 % of the stuff, crafted, looted in hunt etc is not satisfactory big enough so you could pull out the lost % out of the MU, so in the end, if you are not a lvl 60 Attachment engeneer with lvl 13 bp, or landowner, or big investor into CLDs there are not planty many ways to cover the "playing expenses". and most of the inovations (not including rookie mining gear) are laid out to make it even more tempting to get out and spend more, thus making it harder to return a part of your "playing budget"

 

[Cail]

infact i can also read into this statement that MA has released

Why pay to play? seems you gain no benifit in providing this company with lots of your spare hard earned cash over a number of years.

All your losses are forgotten, you have no advantage over a noob miner who sweats for 5 weeks and buys some probes

Yup, best tactic would be to create new avatar for yourself every week or so, do some cheap mining, if it doesn't work out, make new ava.
That has seemed to work pretty well for some people (creating new avatars, that is), which leads me to think that "luck" is avatarbound.

 

[nutrageti]

what's with all the avatar luck guys? been playing for 5 years and I can say that I got returns from 7 % (don't ask, i guess I didn't kill more then 40-50 mobs so maybe unfinished hunt) to 2400% (got hof on first mining drop and stopped). These didn't come after depoing, or bad/good losses or anything. They came with me playing somewhat normally. Uneco works, so does eco, overall same return for me. Want to confirm some of these things here? Go out and shoot

 

[wizzszz]

... to 2400% (got hof on first mining drop and stopped).

You had a 24 PED HoF??

 

[Jimmy B]

You had a 24 PED HoF??

Maybe he was using a big amp.

 

[FallenAngel]

Ontopic, I just realized MA signaled that people can exploit the loot process, some players can spend small to get into good loot periods then roll hard to capture all the big loots. Since there is no correction or tracking, they get to keep those goods. If there were a personal loot pool (as in a mediating mechanism, not an actual sum of ped that could limit your loot), then even hacking the client to create exploits would be futile.

MA signalled that people can exploit the loot process? i looked around for exploit signals but i did not see any.
So now unless you "roll hard" when loot is bad you are exploiting??
And this personal loot pool protecting against hackers, this is some amazing FUD you serve, would evil exploiting hackers not hack their personal loot pool then?
you do realise that in this one paragraph you equate not participating at maximum level when loot is bad to hacking the game client?

I just cant believe some of the rules some people seem to want to make, for others, on how they should play.

And MA only said there is no personal loot pool, and no tracking of individuals losses for people playing inefficiently to compensate them later.
They make no mention of their being no "global" corrective mechanisms in place, or a statistical average applied universally or any other method of governing the system, just that it is not personal or individual. The statement they made is quite precise and limited.

 

[Fifth]

MA signalled that people can exploit the loot process? i looked around for exploit signals but i did not see any.
So now unless you "roll hard" when loot is bad you are exploiting??
...

I didn't read it this way either, but i can see what mproper is referring to. No tracking mechanism means less means to detect exploits. However, this is not the only protection mechanism possible and we have no info whatsoever to make any valid conclusions about security.



What about breaking even, i thought it works like this:

1. you deposit 100 ped
2. you buy and sell and trade and craft.. and you end up with 2000 ped
3. you buy and sell and trade and craft.. and you end up with 100 ped
4. you withdraw 100 ped

ofc you can "forget" #1, start counting from #2 and then say: "omfg i have lost 1900 ped!!!"
... but in this case we can only talk about your inability to track your income and loss, not MA's.

well idk, that's how it works on my planet at least

 

[aia]

MA signalled that people can exploit the loot process? i looked around for exploit signals but i did not see any.
So now unless you "roll hard" when loot is bad you are exploiting??
And this personal loot pool protecting against hackers, this is some amazing FUD you serve, would evil exploiting hackers not hack their personal loot pool then?

Maybe the smart people do something like this (this is just a guess):

Let's say they're mining.

They learn, that in a certain area, first they get small lysterium hits. Then after 10 drops, they hit a modest let's say belkar - with some variation (let's say sometimes belkar, sometimes cupper).

Now they go out mining, dropping one bomb, unamped, each 15 minutes.
If they hit a lyst, they try let's say 3 more bombs within 2 minutes. If they get a second lyst, they quickly drop 5 more probes unamped (to quickly increase the "counter"), now they put on a fat amp, and drop 10 bombs (out of which at least one is intended to be "timed" for the hit that used to be modest unamped).

Alternatively, if loots really are avatar independent, they have a "drone" who does mindless mining - but they track the outcome. When the "drone" seems to begin to hit something, they immediately stop the drone, and send out pro miners to the area and bomb with big amps.

(At least there isn't that exploit I think there were in the beginning of amp mining - that a miner could drop a bomb, and if found something, abort the finding and either drop a new bomb again, this time amped, or letting another avatar drop a bomb nearby.)

 

[SpikeBlack]

Depends on if they've changed the mining system drastically since they removed having to find the claim.

We had the occasion on FOMA then CND where two miners got the same claim but only the first could claim it. If it were avatar specific that should never happen.

 

[Matho]

Not a good info for ppl who lost a lot here.

But i have no doubt about the "spirit of typical entropia player". He will keep losing, depositing and whinning, no matter there probably isnt any chance to have part of his losses back.
Funny, funny

 

[dr3w]

Yup, best tactic would be to create new avatar for yourself every week or so, do some cheap mining, if it doesn't work out, make new ava.
That has seemed to work pretty well for some people (creating new avatars, that is), which leads me to think that "luck" is avatarbound.

It doesn't work. Still many trying. Looks like they thinks that MA is bunch of idiots and will leave such obvious "hole".

 

[Piotr]

Looks like they thinks that MA is bunch of idiots.

They might be for expecting me to turn peds in mining after 4 months!!!! of 60-70% returns WITHOUT any fkin tracks of my losses to compensate it.

 

[Ace Flyster]

They might be for expecting me to turn peds in mining after 4 months!!!! of 60-70% returns WITHOUT any fkin tracks of my losses to compensate it.

You sound ideal for this challenge and win yourself 1000 ped!!

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?228443-Throwing-down-the-gauntlet

Rgds

Ace

 

[Piotr]

Thx but thats like an MA event, lose 3k peds to have a chance to win 1k

 

[Wollongong]

infact i can also read into this statement that MA has released

Why pay to play? seems you gain no benifit in providing this company with lots of your spare hard earned cash over a number of years.

All your losses are forgotten, you have no advantage over a noob miner who sweats for 5 weeks and buys some probes

You pay to play. The benefit you gain from it is entertainment.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Thx but thats like an MA event, lose 3k peds to have a chance to win 1k

It is nothing like an MA event, just carry on what you are doing and log the results, thats all, if its under 70% returns he gives you 1000 ped. There is no downside

Rgds

Ace

 

[Piotr]

Except im semi retired from mining (maybe finally after 2 lvl5 amps with 100 peds return, 1 on planet (100 bck) other on hell (100 nrf bck XD))

 

[Ace Flyster]

Except im semi retired from mining (maybe finally after 2 lvl5 amps with 100 peds return, 1 on planet (100 bck) other on hell (100 nrf bck XD))

Right okay

Rgds

Ace

 

[mrproper]

MA signalled that people can exploit the loot process? i looked around for exploit signals but i did not see any.
So now unless you "roll hard" when loot is bad you are exploiting??
And this personal loot pool protecting against hackers, this is some amazing FUD you serve, would evil exploiting hackers not hack their personal loot pool then?
you do realise that in this one paragraph you equate not participating at maximum level when loot is bad to hacking the game client?

I just cant believe some of the rules some people seem to want to make, for others, on how they should play.

And MA only said there is no personal loot pool, and no tracking of individuals losses for people playing inefficiently to compensate them later.
They make no mention of their being no "global" corrective mechanisms in place, or a statistical average applied universally or any other method of governing the system, just that it is not personal or individual. The statement they made is quite precise and limited.

I'm not going to comment on what you said, but rephrase what I said in a different way, so future readers don't get as confused as you did. As you can probably tell, especially in activities involving rapid looting (crafting, mining), loot follows a compounded return curve based on harmonics of various frequencies and sources, some shorter or longer periods of time offer strongly biased loot, either too low or too high.

Should someone create special software that can plug into EU's client data (be it on-screen, in-memory or logged files) and follow statistical analysis on loot levels and variance, they would be able to predict near future high loots, or perhaps indicate the current state, one player would be able to cut back on major losses by reducing his "bad loot" periods spending and increasing it in his "good loot" periods. The effect would be minuscule for each loot, but since there is no compensation for over-returns, it would snowball.

Linking such a software with a peer or client-server network and corroborate the live data could offer a stronger precision, and benefits for all participants using the software. The hacking part involves breaking the EULA and creating systems integrated around MA's client, thus the definition applies.

In the end, some people (no money needed, any level is available) will obtain constant gains at the expense of the other players. The other players would still get regular returns slightly biased by "loot pool drain", but their looted stuff will be worth less due to amazingly lucky players selling their extra returns at lower prices.

I am going to attempt to build such a system because someone needs a lesson in proper game design and hatters gonna hat!

 

[FallenAngel]

blabla

Im sorry but this sounds like pure fantasy to me on so many levels i am not even going to bother to dissect it, all i need to say is that if someone had these talents and a dedicated group of people willing to go to these lengths they would not be doing it in entropia to earn a few peds a hour they would be hacking banks or exploiting the stock market.
I also dont know how much mining you do but i would like to note that mining does not involve rapid looting, have you looked at how many uses a minute a finder has lately?
You know, instead of building that complex system based upon monitoring "a compounded return curve based on harmonics of various frequencies and sources" you could just get a low damage/sec weapon and a high damage/sec weapon and watch your loot window, something that im sure many players do and have done in the past, and im sure those same players will tell you this guarantees you nothing.

and sorry to say this so bluntly but what you say makes no sense at all, it is not a question of me being confused.

i think you, and others need to get over the fact that some players will do well, and others dont, it is the way the system is designed to operate, the same is true in the real world, you dont need to make anything sinister out of it.

 

[Sloe]

In all honesty i rarely saw such odd rants. The very way the system is made makes it unpredictable, and much better math minds have given up b4 even committing to it, simply because it's impossible. Chaos theory comes to mind quickly. You can't predict an ever changing system with so many variables, in fact u don't even know for a fact which variables are used. Nevermind how do u judge in what way it affects the system. If time was the only variable then maybe it would b simple, but i think people misjudge how complex a system can be just cause they can't imagine that kind of complexity... But they sure as hell will argue none-the-less. People reading into what MA said also completely backwards and equating what they said to random gambling... When MA stated the EXACT opposite; that in fact u have control over how fast u lose ped. Some of the strangest rants i've seen in a bit.

 

[nutrageti]

You had a 24 PED HoF??

forgot a 0...

 

[mastermesh]

I am going to attempt to build such a system because someone needs a lesson in proper game design and hatters gonna hat!

designing such a system would be a violation of eula and terms of service... but if you must be a hatter, then build your hat. Just doing complain when that grey hat is seen as a black hat by Mindark and it gets you this hat for becoming banned as a result of your actions: