Stefan 008 Bond
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- Stefan 008 Bond
Hi everyone, I know we have numerous 2.0 threads going but I wanted to see if we can clarify a few things I see as almost contradictory statements that we have received from MA about the big Loot 2.0 update...
While i am most assuredly overthinking the statements myself, I would like to see if we can mostly get on the same page as a community as far as what MA is trying to tell us.
From the original Dev Notes:
"Loot calculations will be optimized and improved to better factor in the various costs associated with hunting activity, including: healing, ammo consumption, buffs, tool and armor deterioration, attachments, and more."
no mention of enhancers but ok easy enough..
and then
"A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations. This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects."
As we have already deduced, this new economy/efficiency parameter is exactly the same as our old dpp models so I'm not sure this statement is accurate. While I'm sure MA has changed the system to possibly move away from supreme dpp model, this added Efficiency statistic in game does not change anything by itself. But I follow..
also:
Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization."
so here we have MA stating that both quantity and quality are affected by these variables..
this seems to make sense as a lot of hunters use more than 1 weapon on a hunt so the penalty should only apply if your trying to use a Mann mph to kiil a Daspletor all the way.. using the mph as a finisher should not right?
...at this point I am under the assumption that MA wants us to kill mobs fast and furious with the caveat of overdamage is a penalty. In this system, which could be very interesting, skills, gear and actual user skills would all come into play. Since they are saying that excessive cost and time to kill will enact penalties of some sort, but we cant just annihilate mobs either since overdamage is a penalty. This could be very engaging!
then we have the follow up:
"The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc."
So, ok, are we trying to be eco now or not?? Everyone wants more loot AND better loot, now you are saying the primary value of loot comes from our own costs... So this is a completely reactionary system now? We should be running up costs because it is all involved in loot value calculations? or not?
"The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value)."
Well everyone is having a field day with this quote, something you will hear ppl referencing from now on so I hope that is a fully accurate quote. The community is taking this as uneco crap items vs imk2 is 7% difference in loot quantity. The value of items will certainly reflect this in the future if true.. still this isn't anything new
And then we have this:
"To best achieve Optimal Loot:
Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.
In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time."
Right so now I'm more confused...
In the original notes you say to avoid inefficiencies like excessive time and cost to kill a mob, and then you state there is no timer... ok what again now??
Additionally you say healing costs are part of the calculations for loot quantity now, then you say to avoid healing for optimal loot!
Also stated is that armor decay is factored in loot calculations as well now, then again you say the lower cost to kill a creature, the higher proportion of optimal loot.
In other words, you are saying that you have altered the once dominant dpp model to include other things in loot calculations. But then you make a statement it is best to kill mobs cheap as possible afterall (which is how it has always been?)
I am fully aware of the difference now between what MA is saying is loot quantity and what is quality. Are they now mutually exclusive? Did you turn hunting into a crafting quantity/condition slider or what? I surely hope that these changes are for normal hunting loots only. While I am certainly fine with optimal loot packages being found in minis and globals vs shrapnel, I would like to feel that all players have an equal chance to loot the same large mutipliers as these are game changers (whats actually in the loot doesn't really matter, as long as the tt value is there!)
I am also very interested to see how the mentioned "specializations" and incremental net return increases can be implemented. I am on arkadia right now and Zadul are not dropping their hides. When i first started hunting them, not only were the hides missing but i wasnt seeing any corria boards either.. later after around 2-300 kills i started to see them a few times in loot (along with a different color of paint). I thought a system like this could be very cool, so maybe hides wont drop until you have a record of killing 1k zaduls (as exmpl)... just thinking out loud here
I am looking for everyone's interpretations of these statements. I am not looking for someone to tell everyone how to make profit under the new system... as it feels already like the first rule of loot 2.0 is you don't talk about loot 2.0!
seriously, I do feel secrets will be kept this time around as figuring out the system will net you more mu% than others, there isn't really a need to save the players who cant figure it out anymore as they will/should be fine (they just loot endless shrap!)
Thoughts?
008
While i am most assuredly overthinking the statements myself, I would like to see if we can mostly get on the same page as a community as far as what MA is trying to tell us.
From the original Dev Notes:
"Loot calculations will be optimized and improved to better factor in the various costs associated with hunting activity, including: healing, ammo consumption, buffs, tool and armor deterioration, attachments, and more."
no mention of enhancers but ok easy enough..
and then
"A new Economy rating parameter will be introduced, on a scale of 1-100, that indicates the efficiency of a tool and which influences loot calculations. This change from the once dominant damage/pec model will provide the design team with more freedom to release exciting and interesting items with a wider range of damage output and special effects."
As we have already deduced, this new economy/efficiency parameter is exactly the same as our old dpp models so I'm not sure this statement is accurate. While I'm sure MA has changed the system to possibly move away from supreme dpp model, this added Efficiency statistic in game does not change anything by itself. But I follow..
also:
Loot value calculations and the composition of the items in loot will be affected by properly matching avatar skills and gear to the creature being hunted, rewarding efficient kills with more interesting loot. For optimal loot, it will be important to avoid inefficiencies such as low damage output compared to creature health, excessive time and cost to kill, overkill damage, unmaxed weapons and other factors. This system is intended to reward game knowledge, which has traditionally been an important and unique aspect of success in Entropia Universe, and to provide opportunities for participants to improve their loot returns via experimentation, optimization and specialization."
so here we have MA stating that both quantity and quality are affected by these variables..
this seems to make sense as a lot of hunters use more than 1 weapon on a hunt so the penalty should only apply if your trying to use a Mann mph to kiil a Daspletor all the way.. using the mph as a finisher should not right?
...at this point I am under the assumption that MA wants us to kill mobs fast and furious with the caveat of overdamage is a penalty. In this system, which could be very interesting, skills, gear and actual user skills would all come into play. Since they are saying that excessive cost and time to kill will enact penalties of some sort, but we cant just annihilate mobs either since overdamage is a penalty. This could be very engaging!
then we have the follow up:
"The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc."
So, ok, are we trying to be eco now or not?? Everyone wants more loot AND better loot, now you are saying the primary value of loot comes from our own costs... So this is a completely reactionary system now? We should be running up costs because it is all involved in loot value calculations? or not?
"The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value)."
Well everyone is having a field day with this quote, something you will hear ppl referencing from now on so I hope that is a fully accurate quote. The community is taking this as uneco crap items vs imk2 is 7% difference in loot quantity. The value of items will certainly reflect this in the future if true.. still this isn't anything new
And then we have this:
"To best achieve Optimal Loot:
Be sure to have the Hit Ability and Damage profession requirements maxed (10.0/10.0) on the weapon your avatar is using.
Avoid over-amping (using a weapon amplifier that adds more than 50% of the maximum damage of the weapon to which it is equipped).
Minimize healing costs and the need to interrupt damage dealing to heal.
In general, the lower the cost to kill a creature, the higher the proportion of loot composition will be Optimal Loot. There is no inherent “kill timer” for each creature; Optimal Loot is calculated based on costs, not on time."
Right so now I'm more confused...
In the original notes you say to avoid inefficiencies like excessive time and cost to kill a mob, and then you state there is no timer... ok what again now??
Additionally you say healing costs are part of the calculations for loot quantity now, then you say to avoid healing for optimal loot!
Also stated is that armor decay is factored in loot calculations as well now, then again you say the lower cost to kill a creature, the higher proportion of optimal loot.
In other words, you are saying that you have altered the once dominant dpp model to include other things in loot calculations. But then you make a statement it is best to kill mobs cheap as possible afterall (which is how it has always been?)
I am fully aware of the difference now between what MA is saying is loot quantity and what is quality. Are they now mutually exclusive? Did you turn hunting into a crafting quantity/condition slider or what? I surely hope that these changes are for normal hunting loots only. While I am certainly fine with optimal loot packages being found in minis and globals vs shrapnel, I would like to feel that all players have an equal chance to loot the same large mutipliers as these are game changers (whats actually in the loot doesn't really matter, as long as the tt value is there!)
I am also very interested to see how the mentioned "specializations" and incremental net return increases can be implemented. I am on arkadia right now and Zadul are not dropping their hides. When i first started hunting them, not only were the hides missing but i wasnt seeing any corria boards either.. later after around 2-300 kills i started to see them a few times in loot (along with a different color of paint). I thought a system like this could be very cool, so maybe hides wont drop until you have a record of killing 1k zaduls (as exmpl)... just thinking out loud here
I am looking for everyone's interpretations of these statements. I am not looking for someone to tell everyone how to make profit under the new system... as it feels already like the first rule of loot 2.0 is you don't talk about loot 2.0!
seriously, I do feel secrets will be kept this time around as figuring out the system will net you more mu% than others, there isn't really a need to save the players who cant figure it out anymore as they will/should be fine (they just loot endless shrap!)
Thoughts?
008