Question: Do we need CLD's owner register ?

[shoti]

I am wondering what CLD's owners think about idea of "CLD's owner register".

It will be place where will be displayed who (optional) and how many CLD's. Ofcourse only both that information will give needed clarity.

Problem is that after latest MA "buyback" of CLD's it is possible that they may do that again, and again....and we will never know if thats already same initial 60 000 CLD's or new ones made by MA to gather more money.

Precedence happened already.

 

[Luckycharm]

Could be an option privided it's anonymous still but we do not need it imo.

 

[Mr-Joey]

no - i think there are many ppl dont want to make it public how many shares they hold.
Also it is much work to maintain the info - too many sales.

 

[shoti]

no - i think there are many ppl dont want to make it public how many shares they hold.
Also it is much work to maintain the info - too many sales.

I can imagine it as auto updating register ingame.

...but are is there any other way to make such info 100% sure without names ? Maybe it is just i didnt think it out yet.
I think its not worse than info provided by entropia tracker (not more RL money sensitive anyway)

 

[Mikass]

Great idea. Otherwise there's no way of knowing how many shares there really are. Companies bigger than MA did stock dilution without telling anyone, burning investors. The fact that dividend keeps decreasing is a worrisome sign which may point in this direction.

Having a register would put people's mind at ease and encourage investors to buy more.

 

[Few Scars]

I voted yes. I think it would be good to see how many are in players hands roughly. We already know that players who own Mod FAPs, LAs etc have the financial capacity to own a lot of CLDs.
I suggest you start a thread. "How many CLDs do you own"?, and players can update it.

I'm not shy to say I own 9. The $3.50 I make each week is awesome The number has gone up and down, but I am keeping at 9 for the voting rights and tiny LA.

Cheers
Bjorn

 

[Harmony.]

as long as people get upset over two hours spend on a new dance move (which a lot of people seem to enjoy), i really don't think they should waste any time on this.

 

[RickEngland]

So the main purpose of the register is to check if MA have issued more than 60,000 CLD’s (which they’ve implicitly stated they would not regardless of buyback and resales).

Therefore you need 100% of the owners to participate or you will not have a complete list. The reality is you won’t get 100% of owners contributing (probably 30% at best), and even if you did you would need those 100% owners to update on the status of any sale or purchases? I very much doubt that would happen. At worst you could create fear in the market if you build a list of 65,000 CLD’d because a few people had not updated.

The second point is true worth of CLD’d. I think it’s pretty clear that MA are attempting to make the game cheaper, and give us more hours for our money. Asset values and the desire of prior VU items are falling fast, meaning deposits for items will be less (no one knows if such purchases are included in CLD revenue anyhow).

So my point being CLD income will only increase if the player base grows significantly, and if existing players contribute more time and effort developing their avatars. A lot of CLD’s owners are sitting on the fence, in effect devaluing their own investment.

The truth is in the numbers, the latest two consecutive weeks of dividend has been under 4 ped, I would suggest this is a mixture of the above and other factors (trying to keep post short).

The greatest mistakes with investments is “self denial”, people don’t want to believe what they see in front of their eyes, because they need to justify their investment decision. I have made such mistakes in real life, but I’m very aware that ‘facts’ should sway any investment decisions not dreams.

I’m not saying CLD’s are a bad idea, I’m just saying that the game is now positioning itself for “cheaper” player retention growth, many existing players might not like this positioning phase/nerfs (we are feeling the effects already). Cheaper means less CLD income. Once that positioning is complete, then comes the grow part of the master plan. How much growth and how fast is how you should base your investment.

If you own one or two deeds, then no big deal really, it was fun. If you own a lot then constantly reconsider the facts.

Rick

 

[Uvas]

I am wondering what CLD's owners think about idea of "CLD's owner register".

It will be place where will be displayed who (optional) and how many CLD's. Ofcourse only both that information will give needed clarity.

Problem is that after latest MA "buyback" of CLD's it is possible that they may do that again, and again....and we will never know if thats already same initial 60 000 CLD's or new ones made by MA to gather more money.

Precedence happened already.

Another buyback is possible if the large investor decides to sell again. That is not a problem. Mindark has stated that NO future additional CLD's will ever be created.

By the way, it is impossible for them to create additional deeds without our knowledge. We have the audited revenue number. We have the amount of shares. We have the amount of payouts. Any discrepancy in the payouts would be noticed.

 

[Steve_saber]

I can imagine it as auto updating register ingame.

...but are is there any other way to make such info 100% sure without names ? Maybe it is just i didnt think it out yet.
I think its not worse than info provided by entropia tracker (not more RL money sensitive anyway)

And there's a section of the population that had fits over invasion of their privacy over tracker and had themselves blocked...

What you propose is more of a privacy invasion, since it actually concerns finacial holdings of avatars.....gl

 

[Dan59]

as long as people get upset over two hours spend on a new dance move (which a lot of people seem to enjoy), i really don't think they should waste any time on this.

I like emotes. Im not good in role playing but if i see someone doing it i stand still and look with pleasure
Seem is wery easy to implement player movement and emotions in two hours.
But if i had to choose between new dance and sit down , lie down , crouch, crouch and shoot, lie down and shoot im sure you know the answer.

 

[Mikass]

Another buyback is possible if the large investor decides to sell again. That is not a problem. Mindark has stated that NO future additional CLD's will ever be created.

By the way, it is impossible for them to create additional deeds without our knowledge. We have the audited revenue number. We have the amount of shares. We have the amount of payouts. Any discrepancy in the payouts would be noticed.

Not really. The downtrend we have seen in revenue could indicate ongoing stock dilution, same as inflation in RL due to money printing.

It amazes me that so many people voted "no" on such an issue. I thought Entropia had a smarter player base. Guess I was wrong.

I understand that some may want to stay anonymous for certain reasons and system could be made in such a way as to allow those who wish to be displayed as such(change Player Name to Anonymous134 for eg), but other than that I don't see any valid reason why one should oppose such idea. Guess some are oblivious to the risks involved.

 

[RickEngland]

It amazes me that so many people voted "no" on such an issue. I thought Entropia had a smarter player base. Guess I was wrong.

It is the smart people that voted "No".

 

[~CHOPPER~]

Problem is that after latest MA "buyback" of CLD's it is possible that they may do that again, and again.....

I agree that the buyback looks pretty suspicious, But I believe in anonymity in what people own in game.

I also doubt that MA will try this stunt again...

 

[Leona]

Problem is that after latest MA "buyback" of CLD's it is possible that they may do that again, and again....and we will never know if thats already same initial 60 000 CLD's or new ones made by MA to gather more money.

I can imagine it as auto updating register ingame.

I understand that some may want to stay anonymous for certain reasons and system could be made in such a way as to allow those who wish to be displayed as such(change Player Name to Anonymous134 for eg), but other than that I don't see any valid reason why one should oppose such idea. Guess some are oblivious to the risks involved.

Hold on a second. Just so i get it right: First you buy virtual "shares" with no clear definition what they are. As revenue is undefined you didn't have a idea what the base is for your return calculation. Any external audit is also completely worthless because it is unknown what has been audited.

No published definition of revenue means MindArk can internally change the basis for your share calculation at any time without you ever knowing.

Considering that the platform provider and the planet partner are not really separate entities in this case they can just decide that in example auction fees are not going into revenue anymore (if they ever was, we do not know, that is my point) but pay it to the PP by other means.*

But that doesn't worry you? The only thing that is clear and defined and promised, the limit of 60.000 shares, that worries you?

Ok, fine. You are worried they pull an share dilution scam on you? So you want the company that you think would pull such a scam to program a system that shows who holds how many "shares", but with the option to stay anonymous. How hard would it be to code such a system in a way that merges some Mr. and Ms. Anonymous (and a lot would take that option) who hold same number of shares together to only a few entries and delude the total number?

So the company you don't trust to hold the simple promise of the 60K CLD limit you trust enough to code the controlling tool for us?!

It amazes me that so many people voted "no" on such an issue. I thought Entropia had a smarter player base. Guess I was wrong.

And call the people who vote against such a idea out of stupidland "not so smart"?



* Not that i think they would do something like that, but if things get rough thats the first idea that would pop up in any CEO's mind.

 

[Neil Stockton]

The transparency would be nice, but I think it would target too many players for account hacking.

 

[Kemp]

You actually want a tool to be able to check if MA can be trusted...?!
Don't you just know ... They cannot be...

 

[aridash]

So the company you don't trust to hold the simple promise of the 60K CLD limit you trust enough to code the controlling tool for us?!

i know, odd isnt it? if anyone is worried MA will secretly dilute the CLD amount, they shouldnt be holding CLDs. they shouldnt really be playing the game either as they lack any trust. i think MA is incompetent, but act with good intent. if they were to dilute the CLD it would be immidiately obvious through a substantial drop in revenues, and why would a new investor place a substantial amount with a company they know is doing somthing underhand... doesnt make sence does it. only if they were issuing new CLD against a seperate proportion of the total revenues would any sane investor enter into a unannounced deal.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Need I voted no....


If the poll said "usefull" I would say yes =)

absolutely not needed but indeed it would be cool!


only if it is optional to show your name tho, imo..

 

[Akbar]

You actually want a tool to be able to check if MA can be trusted...?!
Don't you just know ... They cannot be...

Oh yes Kemp...

--

CLD owners were supposed to have an impact on the future of the game,
so Mindark should respect what they announced in the main page, and give the opportunity to CLD investors to hear their voice (which was the official deal), and to give new directions than only mindark's.

Great idea. Otherwise there's no way of knowing how many shares there really are. Companies bigger than MA did stock dilution without telling anyone, burning investors. The fact that dividend keeps decreasing is a worrisome sign which may point in this direction.

Having a register would put people's mind at ease and encourage investors to buy more.

Exactly, I voted yes.

 

[Mikass]

Don't see why some transparency would hurt. Perhaps some voted "no" for tax purposes though I see that resolved by having set ID as anonymous followed by some number. Would it be perfect? No, ofc not, but it would provide some transparency and set some boundaries and make it harder for MA to bend the rules, because once you have a level of transparency things change a bit. I know for a fact it would encourage more players to jump in.

Some asked how come you'd want something like this after buying shares. Doesn't that mean you already trust MA implicitly? No, not really. I trust MA to be MA and to rip off and cut corners systematically, as it happened in the past. I also know, like most investors and players here, that we are like some abused kidnapped victim that fell in love with its captor. Most people here suffer from severe case of Stockholm syndrome. Click here for more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome Ironical isn't it, considering MA is Swedish.

 

[Mr-Joey]

I can imagine it as auto updating register ingame.

If you have an auto register ingame its from MA - if they wont to sell more than 60k shares they also can adjust the register ;

There is a external company monitoring the shares/outcome - so i don't think they will provide fake data.

 

[Uvas]

Not really. The downtrend we have seen in revenue could indicate ongoing stock dilution, same as inflation in RL due to money printing.

It amazes me that so many people voted "no" on such an issue. I thought Entropia had a smarter player base. Guess I was wrong.

I understand that some may want to stay anonymous for certain reasons and system could be made in such a way as to allow those who wish to be displayed as such(change Player Name to Anonymous134 for eg), but other than that I don't see any valid reason why one should oppose such idea. Guess some are oblivious to the risks involved.

No, it could not indicate "ongoing stock dilution".

The downtrend is a lessening of revenue into the company.

 

[Raffaele Meiers]

Isnt it in RL so that holders of a certain amount of the Stock of a certain Company have to be publicly known?

Lets say if a avatar holds more than 3% or 5% or whatever lower limit is decided of Deeds he is listed.

So the List is not too long and the thousands of owner of a very small amount would not be listed.

 

[valivill]

I think its a good idea.
Just wondering if this register would take a lot of time since CLD swap day to day.
How often it would be updated for example.
Also considering there are MORE important things to develop or fixed.

 

[Mikass]

No, it could not indicate "ongoing stock dilution".

The downtrend is a lessening of revenue into the company.

Right. And you are sure of this why exactly?

For many years now summer has been a period of low player activity in Entropia, while the autumn-winter came with a boom in activity. Why would this trend shift now after the CLD sale? The fact that revenue doesn't even match summer activity is really strange. It should be at that level the very least.

While you have no proof to backup your speculation, I have none to back up mine. Both can be correct or wrong at the same time. I`m not sure mine is correct same as I`m not sure yours is. Fact is more transparency would help put such concerns at ease.

Also, when those voting rights will be enforced... think about that. At that point it would be mandatory to have a share registry of some sort to see who has most voting power and such, otherwise people won't really trust a voting system.

 

[shoti]

I think its a good idea.
Just wondering if this register would take a lot of time since CLD swap day to day.
How often it would be updated for example.
Also considering there are MORE important things to develop or fixed.

U can change mentor register every 30 seconds and changes are visible instantly. I dont see any reason why CLD's one shall be not. It's even easier to implement ingame as it will be contain only 1 or 2 data. Mentor register has lot more and custom description.

 

[Harald]

If there was to be surch a registre it only needs to be updated once a week with every payout....

Since if you sell, the new owner will not recive a payout untill a week is gone if i remember rigth

 

[Wollongong]

A register would be good, but only if it is NOT optional, and those with low amounts of CLD are not listed. I'd say... those holding 1% or more should be public. (So that is a whopping 600 deeds).

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Rather than a register which would be a constant drain on resources (as clds change hands a lot sometimes).

Why not just have a serial number on each one on the info page. #1 of 60,000, # 4323 of 60,000 etc.