Question: Do you think there really is a loot pool and is it different for different areas?

[CozMoDan]

Do you think the loot pools differs by area? Another words maybe by TP location, say ashi and jura or is the whole planet the same loot pool? Moreover, what if you goto CP or one of the other planets do you have a seprate loot ( I would thing so for the other plants but maybe not CP and ND) I don't know if this makes any sense or not but I would like your views.

 

[Dave Stevens]

My gut says the pool varies by server. My gut also says its a blended pool (some shared across players, some personal).

 

[aridash]

yes. .........

 

[Satans]

I personally believe that every creature has it's own loot pool. Have been wondering about maturities too, but don't really know...

 

[narfi]

I believe there is Loot.

 

[Spawn]

There is a reason why some mobs are hunted at certain areas and not in others, while the spawn and maturity are the same. Some areas are simply "fatter" than others. Of course you could argue that the areas where mobs are hunted are fatter, because there are hunters hunting.
which came first the chicken or the egg? in this case the chicken. Go hunting now on planet cyrene, and count your globals or minis. At the end of the day, you can count them on one hand. Why? the loot pool has to be filled first before it gives out a bit more than "typical" loot.
Same idea applies to events. During events the global count in that area is way higher, because more ped is being put into the loot pool at that area. Of course it's also higher because more hunters hunt there because there is an event.. but there you go again.. the chicken and the egg.

 

[mastermesh]

Read the Q&A on Rocktropia Forums (it's a sticky over there I believe). Planet Partners control what loot is in what mob according to Neverdie... so yes, there is a loot pool and someone tells the system what to put where on each planet. PPs don't know exactly when the loot they tell the system to provide in x mob will show up since I think there's a bit of randomness (dynamicness) to it, but they do know what mob will loot what when (with when being the vu that the changes they suggested are implemented and any time after that, etc.), so they likely know which LA will loot what when as well on the mining side of things... Because of that Planet Partners absolutely have some little bit of info you or I don't have (unless maybe you or I become a PP later on). That's why PPs should not have personal avatars, but they do anyways (Neverdie, Deathifier, other PPs, etc.), so the system is really pretty unbalanced if you think about it. Folks without a clue about what loot is where are in direct competition with those that actually told the loot system to put stuff in and where to put it.


http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/the-quote-from-rafael/

Excerpt from an email that I received from Rafael Espinosa de los Monteros Iglesias, CEO of Pyxel Arts, on June 8, 2011:

“Our employees are playing (and some have played for a long time) in Entropia Universe. We believe it’s important for any planet partner to do so, to check and understand other planets and players’

http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/a-couple-of-support-issues/


http://!!!!!!!!!!!!!.wordpress.com/...-who-cancannot-participate-and-at-what-level/

 

[narfi]

Go hunting now on planet cyrene, and count your globals or minis. At the end of the day, you can count them on one hand. Why? the loot pool has to be filled first before it gives out a bit more than "typical" loot.

Then why did I get a hof within my first couple of drops with a small amp the moment Hell was released?
(within the first hour or two, maybe less I forget except that I set my alarm to get up early when it was released)

 

[Magix]

I believe it's avatar based. Two avatars in the same area at the same time always have vastly different results, especially if one of them hits a hof or better. I've also done tests where two miners run the same paths with the same finder seconds apart and get different (and sometimes opposite) results. I've also seen situations where people hunting the same monster in two different areas get similar results. I've also seen where the same person can have similar results doing vastly different professions.

 

[Dennis blighter]

Personal loot pool is what i beleive. Too many personal loot pool related things has happened to me to show different.

My main concern/ question is: how do they make loot fair?

A ask this because a person getting a 1k esi is much diff than a 1k ped oil drop.

 

[Magix]

Personal loot pool is what i beleive. Too many personal loot pool related things has happened to me to show different.

My main concern/ question is: how do they make loot fair?

A ask this because a person getting a 1k esi is much diff than a 1k ped oil drop.

Alas, I think that is what they consider "fair."

It's just bad luck that oil isn't 5000% MU, but to MA, I believe this is true.

Actually the example I use is one person getting a 350 ped basic filters (1,000 multiplier on full condition) while another person gets a 1k leviathan hof (100X multiplier.) The first person was way way luckier but the result was a fraction of the 2nd person's loot.

Edit: Another thought just occurred to me: if there is a personal loot pool, how does teaming affect it? Does good luck get shared? Is bad luck infectious? Personally, I just don't team enough, but it seems to me that potentially good luck can be shared between avatars, and the impact of bad luck can be lessened.

 

[Svarog]

No, I believe only in mob-specific lootpools, no matter where the mobs are located within the planet. Countless times I had been given a 40+ pedder at the very moment someone globaled on this mob at completely different place (e.g. Twins / New Switzerland / Shinook for argos).

 

[Artrat]

No, I believe only in mob-specific lootpools, no matter where the mobs are located within the planet. Countless times I had been given a 40+ pedder at the very moment someone globaled on this mob at completely different place (e.g. Twins / New Switzerland / Shinook for argos).

Yea, I believe in mob-specific lootpools too. But I do think that some decay (tp costs, vehicle costs, auction fees etc) go into a shifting "ATH fund" that can drop a big one on any mob (up to the limit for that mob of course.)

 

[3-J]

server based in a way.

loot is decided by a mathematical algorithm including but not limited to: current area, skills, weapon/tool used, ped spent, ped owed, loot available, and then possibly a RNG to top it all off.

a percentage of loot is allocated to the 'noob pool' to keep things interested and people guessing.

with everyone getting 90% long term TT returns, there is absolutely 100% certainty, of there being 'personal loot pools'.

 

[Artrat]

with everyone getting 90% long term TT returns, there is absolutely 100% certainty, of there being 'personal loot pools'.

This is not logically implied. In fact I would say that the large variance in return rates (particularly over smaller amounts of ped cycled) strongly indicates general mob and/or server-based lootpools. Over enough ped cycled, the average would tend toward 90%, even with a general lootpool model.

I'm open to the idea of a general/personal pool mix, just saying that, mathematically speaking, the 90% trend does not prove anything one way or the other.

 

[xillonz]

In all my years on this forum, I have never seen a shred of evidence for loot pools. I have seen a lot of people not know what counts as evidence however.

 

[Neil Stockton]

with everyone getting 90% long term TT returns, there is absolutely 100% certainty, of there being 'personal loot pools'.

I don't think that is proof of a personal loot pool. Another explanation is simply that the loot mechanism returns a loot distribution which averages around 90% of what the typical eco player spends. In order for your personal loot to average out to "90%", the system doesn't need to keep track of how much you've been given. You just have to play long enough. You see a player with a low average return jump up toward 90% or a player with high average return jump down toward 90%. This can be explained by simple regression toward the mean.

 

[aridash]

Edit: Another thought just occurred to me: if there is a personal loot pool, how does teaming affect it? Does good luck get shared? Is bad luck infectious? Personally, I just don't team enough, but it seems to me that potentially good luck can be shared between avatars, and the impact of bad luck can be lessened.

teaming (and shared loot) proves it cannot be 100% avatar based.

 

[3-J]

I don't think that is proof of a personal loot pool. Another explanation is simply that the loot mechanism returns a loot distribution which averages around 90% of what the typical eco player spends. In order for your personal loot to average out to "90%", the system doesn't need to keep track of how much you've been given. You just have to play long enough. You see a player with a low average return jump up toward 90% or a player with high average return jump down toward 90%. This can be explained by simple regression toward the mean.

This is not logically implied. In fact I would say that the large variance in return rates (particularly over smaller amounts of ped cycled) strongly indicates general mob and/or server-based lootpools. Over enough ped cycled, the average would tend toward 90%, even with a general lootpool model.

I'm open to the idea of a general/personal pool mix, just saying that, mathematically speaking, the 90% trend does not prove anything one way or the other.

Good points. Except for the fact that 100% of the time for 100% of people (that i've seen who have kept records) it ends up being 90% +- 2-3 points. There are no extremes, if it were random or mob based there would be many people with far less and far greater returns.

The 90% TT return coupled with many other 'loot events' makes me believe that there are personal loot pools. There is clearly a pattern of loss leading up to a big gain. If loot were 'random' and not determined by how much you are putting in, owed etc, this wouldn't happen as often as it does. There are clearly 'welcome back hofs', this happens too often to be coincidence once again saying that loot is directly determined by your previous playing and 'dues'. There are other points along these lines that indicate personal loot pools too.

 

[Artrat]

Good points. Except for the fact that 100% of the time for 100% of people (that i've seen who have kept records) it ends up being 90% +- 2-3 points. There are no extremes, if it were random or mob based there would be many people with far less and far greater returns.

The 90% TT return coupled with many other 'loot events' makes me believe that there are personal loot pools. There is clearly a pattern of loss leading up to a big gain. If loot were 'random' and not determined by how much you are putting in, owed etc, this wouldn't happen as often as it does. There are clearly 'welcome back hofs', this happens too often to be coincidence once again saying that loot is directly determined by your previous playing and 'dues'. There are other points along these lines that indicate personal loot pools too.

You may very well be right, all I'm saying is that you have inferred conclusive proof from insufficient information. As for 100% of 100%, that is I'm afraid definitely not true. I have friends who have recieved significantly more in TT than they have cycled (over a long period, not just noob hofs), and my own returns are at 76% over 100k cycled.

IMHO, you have fallen into the trap of assuming that the relatively small data set that you are able to observe is representative of the whole. I also think you are seeing patterns where there are none. The "lose big before/after hof", "noob hof", "welcome back hof" and "post-deposit hof" theories are just that, theories. There is no data to support this. Personally I've never seen these patterns, so it's all subjective.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that there insufficient data to conclusively prove anything, and there are many plausible explanations for the loot-behviour we observe in EU.

KijkkiJikki posted the following link in another thread, I think many of the folks on this forum would benefit from reading it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

 

[slasha]

i see it like this

Area servers collect the local data ,they tell the brain server (the one which controls loot) local expenditure /returns . server brain computes new loot totals and sends that to area servers . there is one pool per mobtype (v possibly maturity ) which all servers update too and receive from . The area server combines area rules(like asteroid/hell) and your avatar loot formula to the equation .

I think it is wrong to say your avatar has a loot pool, it just has numbers associated with it that interact with the loot algorithm in a certain way or forms a part of the equation . The numbers change according to your habits and deposits and returns in some way .(personal loot pool implies that what u spend accumulates and is payed back over time , i fear this is not exactly true , it may or may not ,so it could be dangerous to believe in personal loot pool. Also if it is possible to ath on your first ever loot or probe then it cant possibly have come from a personal loot pool. )

we can only throw logic at the possibility's .

 

[mastermesh]

IMHO, you have fallen into the trap of assuming that the relatively small data set that you are able to observe is representative of the whole. I also think you are seeing patterns where there are none. The "lose big before/after hof", "noob hof", "welcome back hof" and "post-deposit hof" theories are just that, theories. There is no data to support this. Personally I've never seen these patterns, so it's all subjective.

I think you are correct in these thoughts. With statistics, if you want to see different results, you just need to change the size of the population being tested. Pure and simple math. At one point in history, a majority of the population thought the earth was flat... Luckily some realized that this 'truth' was not true at all.

 

[Ace Flyster]

Unfortunately with the big variance of loot, none are prooveable, unless you bribe an MA coder

Personally i am a big believer in personal loot pool, people that record tt returns and cross mulitple professions often see average 95%-100% tt returns. Myself included

And the fact that Marco quoted (cant be arsed to find it now), "if you cross more than one profession your average return increases" or something like that. I have seen this in evidence from myself and friends ingame

Still cannot prove it of course...but the little info we have, it would be silly to throw it out. Alhtough it was a long time ago now and could have changed

The only issue i have is teaming / shared loot. I cannot explain it, possible a combination of each avatar? who knows

Rgds

Ace

 

[dr3w]

The only issue i have is teaming / shared loot. I cannot explain it, possible a combination of each avatar? who knows

I think, there is principle: "Shoot'em all, the God will sort'em out!" Due to massive lag'o'drome stuff splitting by dmg done (dunno how items splitting tho), and you can go over your TT-return easily (like noob-ATHs).

But for sure it will even out in your solo-suckotage later.

 

[Uvas]

No.

too short

 

[CozMoDan]

Very interesting replies.
A couple of things I do think after all of the reading on the forums.
1. Loot IS NOT RANDOM. I know that because according to Marco Swiss law forbids gambling and if the loot was completely random then it would be gambling and EU would be in violation of the law and shut down. I can't find that thread but it is here somewhere.

2. I think the avatar does have something to do with the loot simply because what other way could you make the loot not completely random. I don't know how that is done but I think it is.

3. I did not know about the cross professions like hunting and mining that was mentioned in one of the post but it makes a little sense to me because I was/am mostly a hunter and when I was a very low lvl miner maybe in the 10 area I hit a 2000 ped iron HOF. I doubt that I have dropped more 1000 bombs and I only mined to see what it was like.

Lastly, my first gbl was actually an HOF, an armax cow 659 ped, I was using a merc(did not know about skills and lvl and what it took to use a UL weapon) I think I was 1.9/10 on hit. My point is that sometime you just get lucky but in the long run I think it has to do with mobs, avatar and luck.

As far as the OQ it seems like most believe the loot pool is a combo of server and mob together.
Just what I think and thanks for all the replies they were for the most part very good.

 

[dr3w]

Very interesting replies.A couple of things I do think after all of the reading on the forums.1. Loot IS NOT RANDOM. I know that because according to Marco Swiss law forbids gambling and if the loot was completely random then it would be gambling and EU would be in violation of the law and shut down. I can't find that thread but it is here somewhere.2. I think the avatar does have something to do with the loot simply because what other way could you make the loot not completely random. I don't know how that is done but I think it is.3. I did not know about the cross professions like hunting and mining that was mentioned in one of the post but it makes a little sense to me because I was/am mostly a hunter and when I was a very low lvl miner maybe in the 10 area I hit a 2000 ped iron HOF. I doubt that I have dropped more 1000 bombs and I only mined to see what it was like.Lastly, my first gbl was actually an HOF, an armax cow 659 ped, I was using a merc(did not know about skills and lvl and what it took to use a UL weapon) I think I was 1.9/10 on hit. My point is that sometime you just get lucky but in the long run I think it has to do with mobs, avatar and luck. As far as the OQ it seems like most believe the loot pool is a combo of server and mob together.Just what I think and thanks for all the replies they were for the most part very good.

Often see very funny stuff, in one message is two opposite things: deny of gambling and... admitting luck same time. But gambling - is a luck as it is? (smile.jpg)

 

[mastermesh]

Very interesting replies.
A couple of things I do think after all of the reading on the forums.
1. Loot IS NOT RANDOM. I know that because according to Marco Swiss law forbids gambling and if the loot was completely random then it would be gambling and EU would be in violation of the law and shut down. I can't find that thread but it is here somewhere.

would be interesting to see that quote... However, that quote is by am employee that no longer is with the company, so it might not be relevant any more...

 

[Spawn]

Then why did I get a hof within my first couple of drops with a small amp the moment Hell was released?
(within the first hour or two, maybe less I forget except that I set my alarm to get up early when it was released)

could you count the hofs on one hand?

 

[narfi]

Yes. I don't like hell/foma mining/gambling.