EU Development & Planning Advisory Board

[HardWrath]

This is an important point, we possibly need to engage directly with MA managment more now than before.

I am totally convinced that MindArk|FPC won’t entertain any requests by us to be involved with the creative process and development of Planet Calypso unless a more "civilized" and an organized community is realized

- Marco wants a Government

- We want MA|FPC to be more open with their customer base and we want them to listen to our ideas, thoughts, and opinions.

With an organized, democratic, and civilized community perhaps we have a chance at meeting in the middle somewhere

 

[Thorn]

I`m going to go out on a limb here and probably an unpopular one. But hell I must speak the truth. One of the main things that bothers me besides not wanting a governing or advisory body by any one group representing the whole population of EU at present is who started this. Number one is from a person who has done more than their share to raise the cost to players and make sure most are never able to afford a set of so called uber armor among numerous other items. And the other is from a society which in my personal experience has bullied or tried to intimidate players from selling product that competes with theirs at prices lower than them to protect their monopoly and keep prices high. So in my eyes we have two factions that thus far have not helped but hurt many players for their own gain. And have profited handsomely. Now to come out and get up on a high horse saying they will do this for the betterment of all just reeks like a rotten bombardo!

I don`t know either of these two avatars personally but have heard at least one person I know speak good of one of them. But for the most part all I have heard and seen are bad actions. Reseller extrordinaire and monopolistic strongarm have come to save the day I`m sure. From my point of view they already have it good enough. But if there is one thing about greed we know is that no amount is ever good enough be it money, power or whatever.

I may have just put a bullseye on my back but that`s okay. I could`nt live with myself if I did`nt at least put this out there. It`s been stewing in me since the topic first came up days ago.

I`ll reiterate myself once again since no one has responded to this for whatever reason. Possibly because I speak the truth? But beyond that I would think by now if they had`nt already MA/FPC can clearly see why they would want to not go down this road and open this can of worms. The emotions and tension it has brought to EF clearly show why it would be a bad thing for EU. It might have been entertaining if it lead to all out war etc in game but that would hardly be fair since not everyone including myself has the deep pockets and the big gear for it. I truly hope MA sees that this is something they don`t want to touch. For many of us it is obvious.

 

[HardWrath]

I`ll reiterate myself once again since no one has responded to this for whatever reason. Possibly because I speak the truth?

As I stated in the original post: "This thread is for the discussion of how it could be created, not if it should be created"

Since now you are reposting and quoting yourself, Ill address your concerns, accusations and slanders one by one. This will be the only time.

But beyond that I would think by now if they had`nt already MA/FPC can clearly see why they would want to not go down this road and open this can of worms. The emotions and tension it has brought to EF clearly show why it would be a bad thing for EU. It might have been entertaining if it lead to all out war etc in game but that would hardly be fair since not everyone including myself has the deep pockets and the big gear for it. I truly hope MA sees that this is something they don`t want to touch. For many of us it is obvious.

Clearly you are short sighted if you think this thread, or others, have brought tensions to the EU. The tensions that you speak of have existed for a long time. Whenever there is a controversial subject being discussed, those tensions are projected onto whatever issue is at hand and whatever people are involved.

If anything, this debate is healthy for the community. Communication is good.
That said, there will always be people like yourself who want to stick their head in the sand, ignore the obvious problems, and then once in awhile take a drive-by analysis and start throwing bombs around at innocent people in the form of false accusations, insults, and slanders... just like you have done below.

I`m going to go out on a limb here and probably an unpopular one. But hell I must speak the truth. One of the main things that bothers me besides not wanting a governing or advisory body by any one group representing the whole population of EU at present is who started this.

You have got to be joking.

Number one is from a person who has done more than their share to raise the cost to players and make sure most are never able to afford a set of so called uber armor among numerous other items.

The demand for those items at the time is what drove up the price, not Star.

Demand exceeded supply therefore prices went up. It’s simple economics.

And the other is from a society which in my personal experience has bullied or tried to intimidate players from selling product that competes with theirs at prices lower than them to protect their monopoly and keep prices high.

How in the hell could any reasonable person say that the NBK Entrepreneurs, or any NBK society has a monopoly on anything?

How have we bullied or intimidated any players into selling anything at a higher price?

We have given guidance and advice to a couple of people who were utterly destroying markets. A dramatic difference from what you describe.

So in my eyes we have two factions that thus far have not helped but hurt many players for their own gain. And have profited handsomely. Now to come out and get up on a high horse saying they will do this for the betterment of all just reeks like a rotten bombardo!

Who exactly has been hurt? Where are the victims? Huh? Who in my society is supposed to have "profited handsomely" from what you claim?

I don`t know either of these two avatars personally but have heard at least one person I know speak good of one of them. But for the most part all I have heard and seen are bad actions. Reseller extrordinaire and monopolistic strongarm have come to save the day I`m sure. From my point of view they already have it good enough. But if there is one thing about greed we know is that no amount is ever good enough be it money, power or whatever.

What exactly are the bad actions? Where are the people who have been wronged? Who has it "good enough?"

I may have just put a bullseye on my back but that`s okay. I could`nt live with myself if I did`nt at least put this out there. It`s been stewing in me since the topic first came up days ago.

No, you didn’t put a bullseye on your back, you only displayed your ignorance and insulted some people who have done a lot of good things for the EU.

If anything, false accusations, insults, and slanders (like what you just did here) are what cause tensions in the EU.

 

[HardWrath]

Going forward, the only replies to this thread that I will address are the ones that are on-topic.

The topic of this thread is how the DPAB could be created with feedback (of all kinds) on the different components of the proposed framework, rules, etc.

This thread is not for the discussion of whether or not to create the DPAB or anything else. The thread for that topic is here:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...158058-entropia-government-good-idea-not.html

Please also note, the DPAB is not a "government" in anyway shape or form.

 

[Shadowsong]

...
There is not business in the world that would let a group other than their actual stockholders pull a wedgy...
..

Point of order - this is entirely untrue. In every reputable industry, there exist watchdog and regulatory bodies comprised specifically of non-stockholders.

There is not a business in the world, however, that can afford to ignore the voice of it's primary source of income, the customer.

What I hope we are aiming for here, is an offering to FPC that will greatly increase the numbers of eyes on the discussions, with a view to pointing them at areas they may overlook through sheer lack of resources.

Much is made of this forum's ability to offer FPC just that, but we are all well aware that FPC staff simply cannot see every post, thread, wish or suggestion made here, and this isn't even all of Calypso.

What we can do, is offer them freelance, dedicated information gatherers, who will be putting eyes where they cannot. So yes, there will be a filtering process, because that is exactly the problem FPC faces - information overload.

The fact that filtering will occur is a GOOD thing. What is important is that we all take part in formulating the METHOD of that filtering.

If we get that right, then we can establish the two vital streams of credibility with FPC and the playerbase respectively.

It has been said, but I still have the energy to repeat it : THERE WILL BE COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY. ALL COUNCIL DEBATE WILL BE VISIBLE TO ALL PARTICIPANTS, ALWAYS, AND IT WILL BE SHAPED PURELY BY THE LARGER, GENERAL DEBATE.

The board is not some covert, supra-procedural body. They will be exercising no more control than a good debate moderator who allocates equal opportunity to ALL participants, and keeps track of whatever consensus is achieved.

It is only about control to the extent that control is necessary for effective organisation. Somebody has to write stuff down, or collect all the notes into one file for future reference. That file is then passed up the food chain for ease of digestion.

Every day we reach new points of consensus. So far I see three which can be set in concrete :

1. The company must be participant.
2. The process must be accessible to EVERY registered player.
3. The process must be completely transparent.

Keep debating, tomorrow there will be more, I have no doubt.

 

[Kiriku Surgun]

Great.. still awaiting for a reply:

They wouldn’t. Anyone would still have the existing mediums (support, EF, etc) available to present their ideas. With the advisory board, they would have two new options available to them.

1. Post in the DPAB open forum and begin a debate with other players, DPAB members, and even MindArk could weigh in on it.
2. Convince any one member of DPAB to begin a debate on it in the member’s forum.

So what is the added value of this? What is the difference from the forum now?

You keep complaining about support from Mind Ark being that bad.... what do you know about them? Afaik you could search how many people are working on support cases, what power does support have? Only fix small problems like depo problems, awareness and such things like that?
Or do you think they are very powerfull at MA and they tell the development team what to do?

As stated - As suggested by Hardwrath earlier in the thread, the framework
has the capacity to also offer additional assistance to participants on planet Calypso if they are unsure on what to do in any particular circumstance.

Also? So please what do you mean by also what more than 'additional assistance' ? Make your anwser so that there is no possibility to 'add' or 'twist' the words or other things.

One example of this would be,
If a participant has been told something and wants to double check they have the right information, they have an assured point-of-presence they can turn to, to seek counsel.

That is one example? has been told what?
I have a some problem and I told someone and he told me something that I would have to do a certain thing..
Right.. so please be exact because you are not telling anything. And make a couple since there should be enough 'problems' to nake a whole advisory board with elections and a whole organisation.. shouldn;t be to hard to come up with 10 examples, concrete ones that is. So we can peek into your mind, what your idea's are.

This may have been a good place for someone like Omega to have come to inquire if the feedback from support which seem rather strange and questionable was correct;

So you act as a shoulder to cry out? Or you judge Mind Arks support department telling them how to run their business? Or is it something else?
Please share because I can't read your mind

 

[HardWrath]

Kiriku, if you care to make a post that is on-topic, I will address it.

There is no sense in going round in circles.

 

[sledge-]

Even if HardWrath says this is not about "should it be created or not" i would like to know what the DPAB really should do.

10 examples like asked by Kiriku Surgun would be well in place and on topic as there is a description of a structure and how it should work, realy well done btw, but what they do is kind of abstract and imho thats what should be clear before anything else

Just another "assured point-of-presence"? Why not just ask on here? Ah wait it will be a new website with forum ...

(Yes i read the thread and no i'm not satisfied with the answers)

 

[Marco|SDS]

*subscribed*

(too early for me to delve into right now - full focus is on 10.0 atm)

 

[Shadowsong]

*subscribed*

(too early for me to delve into right now - full focus is on 10.0 atm)

Superb, looking forward to reading your thoughts on this, once EU10 lets you have some time.

 

[HardWrath]

*subscribed*

(too early for me to delve into right now - full focus is on 10.0 atm)

Wooooooooooooot

 

[HardWrath]

Even if HardWrath says this is not about "should it be created or not" i would like to know what the DPAB really should do.

10 examples like asked by Kiriku Surgun would be well in place and on topic as there is a description of a structure and how it should work, realy well done btw, but what they do is kind of abstract and imho thats what should be clear before anything else

Just another "assured point-of-presence"? Why not just ask on here? Ah wait it will be a new website with forum ...

(Yes i read the thread and no i'm not satisfied with the answers)

Fair enough.

That is one example? has been told what?
I have a some problem and I told someone and he told me something that I would have to do a certain thing..
Right.. so please be exact because you are not telling anything. And make a couple since there should be enough 'problems' to nake a whole advisory board with elections and a whole organisation.. shouldn;t be to hard to come up with 10 examples, concrete ones that is. So we can peek into your mind, what your idea's are.

Ok, a list of specific things the DPAB would do:

1. Creates the transparent environment where players interact with MindArk|FPC, reestablishing a line of communication and creative thought exchange that was broken and abandoned years ago.
2. Creates a natural way where popular ideas can be brought to the center and in focus while directly being discussed with MA|FPC.
3. Creates an environment where MA|FPC solicits the opinions, ideas, thoughts, and advice of the player base on MA|FPC's ideas before they get implemented.
4. Due to numbers 1,2, and 3 the DPAB would naturaly begin to help establish more confidence in MA|FPC by the player base as a whole.
5. Indirectly (and as a side benifit) creates a "knowledge base" that EU participants could tap into at any time for whatever reason comes to their mind.

Examples of point number 5.
A) EU Participant has a general question that is not clearly being answered by support. Like now with any other player-to-player communication, that participant could solicit the advice of a DPAB member or the DPAB as a whole.
B) EU participant believes that support is giving false, incorrect, or unsatisfactory answers, that participant could get in contact with a higher MA|FPC official through the DPAB and hopefully get their case satisfactorily resolved.
C) EU participant falls victim to a "trust scam" that MA|FPC can’t or won’t get involved in since the item(s) were exchanged voluntarily between private trade. While there is nothing the DPAB could do in the form of item recovery, DPAB members could point that participant in the right direction and to the right government agency so they could attempt to file criminal charges and seek legal recourse.
D) Generally be available to help EU participants as needed.

*The DPAB could not in any way, shape, or form, replace Customer Support, nor could they come in between any kind of communications between an individual player and MA|FPC.
**Serving as a quasi-customer support facility is not the purpose of the DPAB however since the average knowledge level of each DPAB member would be immense, many EU participants might at their own prerogative, seek the advice or guidance of DPAB members or the DPAB as a whole. If they should choose to do that, the DPAB would give guidence where and when possible, however, generally speaking, the DPAB would simply refer that person to Customer Support.

I hope this clears up these points. If there is still confusion, please let me know.

 

[HardWrath]

There is not a business in the world, however, that can afford to ignore the voice of it's primary source of income, the customer.

What I hope we are aiming for here, is an offering to FPC that will greatly increase the numbers of eyes on the discussions, with a view to pointing them at areas they may overlook through sheer lack of resources.

Much is made of this forum's ability to offer FPC just that, but we are all well aware that FPC staff simply cannot see every post, thread, wish or suggestion made here, and this isn't even all of Calypso.

You are right. They can’t and don’t see every idea or solution presented by the community. Even still, currently MindArk has no shortage of good ideas.

Highlighting the best of the best ideas would inherently happen. You would have roughly 100 people in a forum with MindArk discussing and debating various things. If any one thing is a popular idea, the members certainly wouldn’t easily let the subject die unless MindArk gave good reason why it couldn’t or shouldn’t be implemented which in turn would send us back to the drawing board to think of something that would work.

Bringing various ideas to MindArk is only one side of the coin though and is not the primary focus. The end goal would be to have created an environment where MA|FPC comes to us and says:

In the next month or two we want to implement the following new ________ into Calypso. We want to do this because of __________ and by doing it we would achieve ________ and ________. Before we implement it, we want to know what your opinions are and we want to know how you think that we could we make it better. Please post your thoughts and ideas. In two weeks we will close the thread and submit your ideas to the development team.

Now rewind a couple of years, look at anything or any feature we already have in game and just imagine how much better it could be if MindArk had come to us seeking our advice before they finalized it and implemented it.

What we can do, is offer them freelance, dedicated information gatherers, who will be putting eyes where they cannot. So yes, there will be a filtering process, because that is exactly the problem FPC faces - information overload.

The fact that filtering will occur is a GOOD thing. What is important is that we all take part in formulating the METHOD of that filtering.

I’m opposed to a filtration process and am in favor of "natural selection"

With the open public forum side-by-side to the member’s forum, MindArk and DPAB members would both see posts made by everyone else. MindArk would be coming to the site for the sole purpose of gathering ideas, opinions, and feedback. If anyone in EU posted in the DPAB open forum with an idea that was good, practical, viable, doable, and beneficial then the idea all by itself would gain traction and popularity thus bringing it to the forefront of conversation in the member’s area. The gibberish, gobbly gook, and incoherent ramblings would simply fall to the wayside all by themselves. That’s what I mean by "natural selection"

I suppose you could say that is a natural and maintenance free filter

If we get that right, then we can establish the two vital streams of credibility with FPC and the playerbase respectively.

You are exactly right. At present, we as a collective player base do not have any credibility with MindArk|FPC with regard to how the Entropia Universe and Planet Calypso should be developed.

With the player base, we would also have to establish credibility. In the event that this idea gains official acceptance by MindArk|FPC, it would immediately go a long way towards establishing that credibility with most EU participants.

Its impossible to win over everyone. Some people think that CE2 is a prank or scam and that MindArk never actually plans on implementing it. A lot of those same types of people also think that the moon landing of 1969 was a hoax and Neil Armstrong never actualy walked on the moon. Side note: I would love to debate the moon landing thing in the off-topic forum.

The majority of the EU player base I think is hopeful that something like this could work, however they aren’t sure if it should be done because they aren’t convinced that it would be executed in the way it is being described.

It has been said, but I still have the energy to repeat it : THERE WILL BE COMPLETE TRANSPARENCY. ALL COUNCIL DEBATE WILL BE VISIBLE TO ALL PARTICIPANTS, ALWAYS, AND IT WILL BE SHAPED PURELY BY THE LARGER, GENERAL DEBATE.

Agreed. 100% transparency is mandatory. Anything less would simply invite doubt and foster suspicion.

The board is not some covert, supra-procedural body. They will be exercising no more control than a good debate moderator who allocates equal opportunity to ALL participants, and keeps track of whatever consensus is achieved.

It is only about control to the extent that control is necessary for effective organisation. Somebody has to write stuff down, or collect all the notes into one file for future reference. That file is then passed up the food chain for ease of digestion.

The board "leader" "chairman" or whatever you want to call it would be no more than an "administrator" and perhaps should be titled as such.

Every day we reach new points of consensus. So far I see three which can be set in concrete :

1. The company must be participant.
2. The process must be accessible to EVERY registered player.
3. The process must be completely transparent.

Keep debating, tomorrow there will be more, I have no doubt.

I think there are a few more

4. Democratic elections must be a component
5. Firm zero-tolerance policies regarding ethics and behavior
6. HardWrath cannot be the initial "leader" and must gain entry to the organization through the standard methods available to everyone else.
7. This concept is still an evolving work in progress.

 

[Faalagorn]

(too early for me to delve into right now - full focus is on 10.0 atm)

Full focus on 10.0... So, the 10 will be out September, am I right ^^?

 

[Shadowsong]

...
I’m opposed to a filtration process and am in favor of "natural selection"
...
I suppose you could say that is a natural and maintenance free filter

....

Well yes, not filtering by some abstract set of criteria, I agree.

 

[Thorn]

Hardwrath thanks for the neg rep. And as for your comment there I don`t need to get a clue. And judging by the amount of positive feedback I`ve gotten through pm`s +rep and elsewhere I think many many others have a clue too. Your politicking does not fool nor impress me. The bullying I refer to is when people from NBK attack and intimidate my society members from putting up specifically oa103`s at below a price that they want to charge for them in auction. They stated that they did`nt care what was sold for what privately but definitely indicated that they wanted their prices preserved in auction. And I have heard the same from other players. How does that help all the other players? It does`nt. And I don`t implicate Star whole handedly for jacking up prices but honestly he was one of the biggest resellers on that gear and did his best to make a tidy profit. We just have different levels we are willing to sacrifice people for in the interest of our own gain.

Always remember your reputation preceeds you. It appears most people don`t want to be as public as I am with these facts but none the less I have never kissed ass and will not start today.

I do give both of you props for achieving what you have to date. Make no mistake about that. You`ve taken what you were given and made the most of it. As they say don`t hate the player hate the game. But with that said how far do you take it without really caring about other people. How much extra ped from them to take? We all have difffering ideas about that. Perhaps the high cost is one factor why EU has such a problem growing it`s member base. Stop to think about that some time.

And furthermore if you have such good rebuttal for my points of view why then do you need to resort to saying I have my head up my ass. Why attack and neg rep? I don`t mince words and I do not lie. I don`t make baseless accusations and have no interest in attacking people I don`t know just because they don`t like my ideas. I can agree that in theory what you propose is a noble thing. But again I fear it is very self serving in intention in the disguise of helping everyone else. You want the game better for yourself. And I can`t blame you, we all do. But its how we get there that makes the difference.

So now I`ve said what I have to say. I will now let you get on with your rhetoric. And I will get on with my life. I don`t need to clarify or try and trade posts so we can try to disect and discredit one another. That`s pointless. I just put out some facts for the community to weigh. And if you don`t like the truth then that`s too bad. You reap what you sow.

slander - A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community.

 

[sledge-]

Thx for taking the time and writing a long post +rep

Slowly i come to see this idea as a good thing.
I try not to be paranoid on it and then well yes it might be helpfull in some cases.

We have the wishlist here and it has not helped much so far but as Marco has subscribed here now it might be a sign that there is interest for a structured advisory board and, let's face it, the draft here is the best so far.

The DPAB would not really do something we could not do on EF but due to the more focused orientation it might be a better solution. Even more so if MA would take heart and send in some ppl with decision power and devs.

It all boils down to what MA is going to make of it.

I still have to say you did not exactly answer the question about exact scenarios in wich DPAB can help but as nobody knows how an implementation would really look like (the MA part) it's impossible to build such a szenario.
In other words i guess point taken

 

[Brooklyn]

Wooooooooooooot

If your taking this as some sort of semi-endorsement of you idea don't... Let us hope that Marco is reading the whole thread and recognizing
ALL of the obejections and criticisms... to what you are proposing... both in it's structure and in it's need to be at all... trying to control the flow after Marco posts to only ideas that support its creation... let's us know what your really about and that is not free and open dialogue at the source of disagreement... and corner Marco's subsciption for supportive comments only...

 

[Justin Thyme]

Here is an idea.

Why don't you give us your Background.

i.e. what you have done in this game as well as any others. Your real life educations and experiences. Successes in business, military, governement, personal...

 

[SpikeBlack]

1. Creates the transparent environment where players interact with MindArk|FPC, reestablishing a line of communication and creative thought exchange that was broken and abandoned years ago.
2. Creates a natural way where popular ideas can be brought to the center and in focus while directly being discussed with MA|FPC.
3. Creates an environment where MA|FPC solicits the opinions, ideas, thoughts, and advice of the player base on MA|FPC's ideas before they get implemented.
4. Due to numbers 1,2, and 3 the DPAB would naturaly begin to help establish more confidence in MA|FPC by the player base as a whole.
5. Indirectly (and as a side benifit) creates a "knowledge base" that EU participants could tap into at any time for whatever reason comes to their mind.

my single biggest reservation with this is the possibilty that they would immediately filter out ideas that may hurt ubers but improve the gameplay of thousands of mid - low level players? Because lets face it no one who's just joined or disagrees with the club would ever be a member.

1-4 could easily be achieved by having an official forum.

Examples of point number 5.
A) EU Participant has a general question that is not clearly being answered by support. Like now with any other player-to-player communication, that participant could solicit the advice of a DPAB member or the DPAB as a whole.
B) EU participant believes that support is giving false, incorrect, or unsatisfactory answers, that participant could get in contact with a higher MA|FPC official through the DPAB and hopefully get their case satisfactorily resolved.
C) EU participant falls victim to a "trust scam" that MA|FPC can’t or won’t get involved in since the item(s) were exchanged voluntarily between private trade. While there is nothing the DPAB could do in the form of item recovery, DPAB members could point that participant in the right direction and to the right government agency so they could attempt to file criminal charges and seek legal recourse.
D) Generally be available to help EU participants as needed.

you mean like the guides Emma and Simon, a well written FAQ or (again) an official forum.

 

[Lavawalker]

*subscribed*

(too early for me to delve into right now - full focus is on 10.0 atm)

A good sign Welcome back from your break.

 

[Shew]

my single biggest reservation with this is the possibilty that they would immediately filter out ideas

Agree with part of your post.

Take for example the loot situation. There are people, myself included, that feel the loot has gone to hell and am not satisfied to see the insane HOFs.

I say cut down on the frequency and size of the HOFs and increase the size of standard loots. Reduce the stated MA fee of $.5to $1.5 per hour to play. That is an insane amount to pay to play if you really add it up.

However, some see no problem with this at all and are deflamatory to those that have a problem with it.

So would the board address issues even if they don't agree with it? Or will they only address things that suit them?

There are many other devisive issues and it would be good to know how the board would handle them.

 

[sledge-]

my single biggest reservation with this is the possibilty that they would immediately filter out ideas that may hurt ubers but improve the gameplay of thousands of mid - low level players? Because lets face it no one who's just joined or disagrees with the club would ever be a member.

As the board gets voted why should it? Only issue is that a lot of ppl will vote for a name they know ... and ubers are known
But as the draft says there would be a forum where anybody can post so a filter would not work and if all would be ignored then the members will have a hard time to explain why.
Maybe a "vote of distrust" rule should be added to the draft for the worst case

... an official forum.

EF is linked on planetcalypso.com ... thats official in my book (even when it's not owned by MA)
The draft also includes a dedicated website with forum ... maybe MA could set it up then this point would be adressed too...

 

[SpikeBlack]

As EF is a fan forum it can be easily ignored by MA.

Your correct that as the well known players will almost certainly will the ranks of the group. As individuals I'm sure their very nice people but as a group we saw how they can act with what happend in the Land Grab.

Usually when people post ideas on EF that people don't like they get told 'well you don't have to play EU' and eventually it will end up the same way.

If the forum is fully open to anyone then why have voted in members at all?

 

[Shadowsong]

...
Maybe a "vote of distrust" rule should be added to the draft for the worst case

...

May I say that this is an excellent mechanism to consider, to further strengthen the desired transparency and accountabilty.

An entrenched option for a "player referendum" to replace any or all of the incumbent council members. This ties in again with HW's observation on codes of ethics and behaviour.

We have to protect against it being used frivolously, but I believe such an option must exist. Nice one.

 

[HardWrath]

Here is an idea.

Why don't you give us your Background.

i.e. what you have done in this game as well as any others. Your real life educations and experiences. Successes in business, military, governement, personal...

Well, since I won’t be the leader of this, there isn’t much point however I will entertain it in order to satisfy your curiosity. Here are some bullet points

Personal
- 29 years old, not married
- Self Educated
- Moved from Wisconsin to Minnesota when I was 20 to live on my own
- Took my existing sales background and obtained a sales position here
- Entered into sales management
- Entered into b2b sales
- I attempted to enter the US Army however was denied any kind of combat roll because of a lower back injury. They wanted to put me in military intelligence at a desk, I wanted to be on the front line in Iraq, they wouldn’t allow it so I backed out.
- Went back to sales management
- Lost motivation to climb the corporate ladder and declined several high paying jobs with extremely large companies.
- Found an easy job 30-40 hours per week with pretty sweet pay working on a government contract with student loans in the debt recovery field (now thats a hard sale) set some records, made some good money, etc
- Currently I’m trying to be self employed, however I have been spending too much time playing EU, as a result I will probably have to go back to work for this winter while in the off season.

In EU
- Started playing in Oct 2005
- Joined the Natural Born Killers which was a soc of misfit noobs
- Became the leader of the Natural Born Killers and laid down a plan for some massive changes. Everyone told me that I was an idiot and it wouldn’t work, most of the soc got pissed and quit.
- Set the goal to get the Natural Born Killers on the top-50 list by the end of 06 by creating a set of subsidiary socs under it
- Created the NBK Legion
- Identified a scammer in the soc, drove her ass out of the game. Since then I have driven many out of EU.
- Continued forming NBK socs and the leadership team
- After Neomaven left the NBK to go on to a top soc, we got more serious about the top50 and got it up there by the end of 2006
- Fought a continuous power struggle between other people who wanted to assume control of the NBK, constant drama.
- Purchased the second shop sold in game ever (Treasure Island) and had the 1st shop open in game and had the 1st actual shop sale in the history of EU which was 100 ME as a test sale 2 minutes after I opened the shop
- In 2007 I left the game for awhile
- While I was gone on of the Generals went rogue and tried to take over the whole group, I was called back to the game and we waged an epic war against her and her followers. I got the civil war settled and got the NBK back on track again inside of a week or two, then exited the game again.
- Came back to the game later in 07, identified another war brewing between leadership, I gave everyone a full body block, assumed control of the group again, formed the NBK Council, and implemented democratic elections.
- My PC didn’t like the EU graphic update and stopped running EU, I then left the game again because I didn’t want to buy a new PC and was pissed off that we got no advance notice
- Was out of EU for all of 2008, came back in January 09. The NBK was less than 1/2 the size it was when I left and well over 50% of the whole group was inactive.
- Created the NBK Entrepreneurs
-The leadership that had formed while I was away entered into a massive power struggle with me even though I did not want control of the whole group.
- Leadership in place folded up and stepped down, then I revised the entire leadership structure of the NBK, nearly every General from the top down was replaced one way or another.
- Created a position equal to mine which is now held by Imoyaro, General of the Natural Born Killers. He handles daily operations and security, I handle growth and development.
- Launched the NBK Elite Miners, NBK Miners, and NBK Army.
- Restored the NBK to the size, activity, and excitement level that it once was.

Today the NBK Group of societies is the largest organization in the Entropia Universe and contains a lot of the best personalities in the Entropia Universe. We now have an extremely active, dedicated, and enthusiastic leadership team and member base. I couldn’t ask for anything better. Soon we will reenter the top-50 list. If we wanted to today, right now, we could create a solid higher ranking top-20 society. After CE2 launches we will begin another big push forward with the NBK Group.

 

[HardWrath]

Maybe a "vote of distrust" rule should be added to the draft for the worst case

I fully agree. Lets give people the power to pull the plug on any DPAB member, including the leader/administrator

Pehaps we could say the following:

Vote Of Distrust
- If for any reason a DPAB member, or even its leader, is acting in a way that is not consistent with the rules, ethics, or public trust, then a "vote of distrust" could be initiated by either another DPAB member, or the EU community itself

Procedures:
- A DPAB member can initiate a Vote of Distrust in the DPAB member forum or, a non DPAB member can initiate a Vote of Distrust in the DPAB public forum.
- A person would initiate a Vote of Distrust by creating a thread which includes:
a) The specifics and details of the allegation(s) including any proof
b) A Poll with strictly a Yes/No vote attached to that thread
c) The reason(s) why that person should be removed from the DPAB

The accussed will then be able to defend themselves on that thread. Once a period of two-weeks (14 days) have passed, the poll will be closed. If the majority votes against that person, then he/she is required to resign their position immediately.

In the event that two polls are created, one in the member’s area and one in the public area, the poll in the public area will always supersede the poll in the member’s area.

Note to self: include the above in the original post with next post edit (DONE)
------------------------------------------
Please let me know if the above procedure is acceptable. We also need to establish what will justify enacting such a thing

 

[Justin Thyme]

Thank you sir

 

[HardWrath]

The following should address Shew's concern/question as well

my single biggest reservation with this is the possibilty that they would immediately filter out ideas that may hurt ubers but improve the gameplay of thousands of mid - low level players? Because lets face it no one who's just joined or disagrees with the club would ever be a member.

A couple of posts back I made these points regarding "idea filtration"

I’m opposed to a filtration process and am in favor of "natural selection"

With the open public forum side-by-side to the member’s forum, MindArk and DPAB members would both see posts made by everyone else. MindArk would be coming to the site for the sole purpose of gathering ideas, opinions, and feedback. If anyone in EU posted in the DPAB open forum with an idea that was good, practical, viable, doable, and beneficial then the idea all by itself would gain traction and popularity thus bringing it to the forefront of conversation in the member’s area. The gibberish, gobbly gook, and incoherent ramblings would simply fall to the wayside all by themselves. That’s what I mean by "natural selection"

I suppose you could say that is a natural and maintenance free filter

The whole idea of filtering ideas and deciding which ideas get reviewed and which ones dont is a very slippery slope and its something that should never be done.

The idea's popularity itself should be the deterimining factor. If just 1 member of the DPAB likes it, they would have the right to raise the issue in the DPAB forum.

While writting this reply, I had the following idea

Scenario: John, a non-DPAB member posts an idea in the open DPAB forum however, MindArk and all of the DPAB members dont seem to be interested. John does not want to drop their idea because he is convinced that its a spectacular idea. Ok, so now we have an obvious problem

Solution: John could create a poll in the DPAB public forum asking if the DPAB should discuss the idea or not. If John can get over 50% of the community vote in favor of forcing the DPAB to raise the issue directly with MindArk then the DPAB forum administrator would have to grant John special temporary access to the member section where he could post and discuss his idea directly with MindArk and DPAB members

Of course, no matter what, John would also have all of the existing methods of communication that we currently have now (support, EF, etc)

Note to self: Summarize above ideas and add to original post with next edit (DONE)

you mean like the guides Emma and Simon, a well written FAQ or (again) an official forum.

I certainly would like the guides to be among the MA|FPC officials who are an active part of the forum.

The forum would probably be player owned.

Regarding a FAQ, it might be a good idea to have a FAQ containing answers to common questions about the DPAB. Other then that I dont see much use for one however someone will probably think of a good reason for one on various different topics.

Which brings us to talk about how a specific point could work, here is my idea on it:

Lets say:
- DPAB member SpikeBlack proposes the idea to have a FAQ for new players that contains this, that, and whatever other specific info
- DPAB member HardWrath says that isnt needed and is not worth the time
- A discussion would happen
- Since it is a DPAB operational topic, and not a MA|FPC topic, the idea to add that specific thing to the DPAB would be voted on by the members
- Something like that would no doubt get the popular vote and you would get your way. Its that simple, but lets say:
- DPAB member HardWrath has a temper tantrum about it and starts insulting you or being abusive
- The DPAB elected administrator would then moderate, edit, or possibly delete HardWrath's out of line and unprofessional posts since they arent constructive.

Note to self: Summarize above ideas and add to original post with next edit (DONE)

Here is another idea:

Regarding member behavior in that forum, we could possibly take some lessons out of the NBK Council. The NBK Council consists of about 50 NBK members, it has all of our Natural Born Killers members who want to be in it, it has the leader of every society, along with their top Colonel(s) and other members who have stepped up in an extraordinary way.

All of us have strong opinions and the NBK Council has had a long history of frequent and epic blowouts because of a disagreement over something. Because of that, we have adopted various posting standards. At first when we implemented these, they were controversial, some didnt like being moderated, and others wanted to simply test the limits. Since we have implemented them, the NBK Council has been a peacefull, constructive, and productive environment. We have not had one issue since we adoped these.

Here they are, directy copied out of the NBK Council forum:

1. Be constructive.
- Being constructive does not mean that you are supportive of something.
- Being constructive means that you are trying to make something better in a healthy way.
2. Don’t be unconstructive
- Posts that are not constructive do not have a place in the NBK Council
3. Do not be destructive.
- Synonyms: ruinous, negative
- Definitions: a) tending to destroy; causing destruction or much damage b) tending to overthrow, disprove, or discredit
4. Do not further your personal conflict with a person through the NBK Council.
5. Follow the 12 rules of the NBK as posted on the website
- http://www.the-nbk.com/rules.php
6. Uphold the NBK Philosophy
- http://www.the-nbk.com/philosophy.php
7. Understand that not all things are open for debate

1. Is it the TRUTH? (If it's not the truth, I personally don't want to hear it)

2. Is it FAIR to all concerned? (Do your statements put people in a bad light without being well-deserved?)

3. Will it build GOODWILL and BETTER FRIENDSHIPS? (We are all here to try and make more friends in the game, right? If not, then why not just be a freelancer? So, to that, will your statement make friends in the group or just piss people off without reason?)

4. Will it be BENEFICIAL to all concerned? (I think this is basic to any fair conversation. We all are out for ourselves but to work as a group, you need to give some and make it fair to all)

-Need to credit Sionkiewicz with the last 4 items above.

In the event there is a member who does not follow those standards, their post gets removed totally from the thread. We also have a thread titled "Frustration Points" which is a thread that is open to anything, its there for people to vent, and typically deleted posts are moved to that thread. Now that everyone understands what is expected in that forum, no one bothers to flame someone else in there. It works quite well.

Now obviously, we cant just copy and paste these and expect them to work for the DPAB, however, posting standards of a similar nature could be developed and implemented.

We would need to keep the forum civil, constructive, and creative. If its anything less then I am sure that MA|FPC would just withdraw from it and abandon the idea.

What do you guys think about "posting standards" in the DPAB?

 

[Brooklyn]

Thank you sir

No thank YOU... that clinched for me... "Buyer Beware"