I don't understand how it is not gambling ?

[kira-red]

The same can be said for playing slot machines.

certainly. however, the difference is that I cannot influence the result of the slot machine. also, in most cases, I do not know what the payback rate is of any individual machine. also, the payout of a slot machine is strictly coin/token.

for me, slot machines are incredibly boring; and I never play them. the same goes for scratch tickets and other lottery type vehicles. however, I like to go out and hunt and mine for certain types of loots. I also like to make little components to amuse myself.

If it's true that over time everyone's TT-returns should be the same (for hunting/mining/crafting), what happens if a bug wipes out whatever counter that is supposed to make sure you get what you deserve and not more or less?

honestly, I don't believe there is any such counter. it's simple enough to have the base result of, for example, killing something result in an average 90% return over a certain number of global kills. the rest is influenced by what you do. of course, I could be wrong, but I have a hard time believing they would make it more complicated than necessary. after all, as you mention, there are bugs all over the place.

 

[Lavawalker]

Keep life simple.

It is gambling, enjoy it

 

[mike jones]

not gambling Swedish gaming commission says so united states government agrees Australian government agrees everyone agrees except for the people who needlessly piss away peds

 

[Hope WolfGang]

A few people have said that it is not gambling due to your playing style. Which means that if you play bad it is gambling?
if you go out with the most un eco set up for the big hofs then it is gambling. which is kinda the whole point. if you CAN gamble on this game due to the way you play, then surely this is not allowed. as MA are providing a gamling service and put no rules or advise in for us on how to play.

(It's not gambling because otherwise it'd be illegal, at least in the US, which can't happen since the ped is tied to the dollar...)

not gambling Swedish gaming commission says so united states government agrees Australian government agrees everyone agrees except for the people who needlessly piss away peds

These two comments, i agree with. I agree hat if your are MA then you know how the loot is you know how the game works, so it is not gambling, but as players we have no idea how these work.

They can claim it is not gambling because it is not for them, but it sure is for us.


the last sentance says it all, how it is gambling.

I think this post, has show how most people see this as gambling. And others that say it is not, agree with the commissions etc and but their faith in them. Can actually say how it is not gambling then it is ....

 

[ALEXANDER]

not gambling Swedish gaming commission says so united states government agrees Australian government agrees everyone agrees except for the people who needlessly piss away peds

I never Depoed and in 4 years u can say I profited since I didn't put anything in ... And I still say it's gambling

And about the USA/Swedish gaming commissions, they were fooled by MA, they obviously don't know anything about the game. Prove me wrong and show me a report by these commissions in which they analyze this game in detail.

PS: off topic: there is a game out there developed at first by only one man... sold 1 mil copies of it @ 10 mil $ profit. the game is still out of Alpha and it's forum has 2000 people online in the morning It makes EU seem kinda lame with 300 ppl on
ps2: it looks like lego

 

[valentin]

The Swedish and American governments has both investigated and come to the conclusion that it is NOT a casino, thats good enough for me

Tundike: Go crawl back under the rock you came from instead of trolling here, please.

I would like to see their explanations for why it does not count as casino.

One thing I know that they only have analyzed the game superficially and not in detail here in Sweden.

 

[Talania]

In a casino you at least have a chance of winning and cashing in. In Entropia your odds of walking away with more then you started with are impossible.

 

[valentin]

Gambling has better odds.

In a way ---> yes and no, but in gambling you know your odds here you dont so that makes that the company (MA) can do whatever they want and they dont have to follow any rules and 1 thing is sure that they can manipulate the odds and make it how it fits them for the moment.

And if they want they can do everything in the game as they want because the game is computer based
and they can always explain that your avatar is lucky now or unlucky just now but keep on your good luck will turn.

I personally believe that it is not counted as gambling beacause you cant see peds in the loot and that was just because of that MA took this peds form the loot.

Because in Sweden, if you play poker with matches instead of money, it is legal but is the money there it will be illegal, but everyone knows what the matches means, so MA change the peds for oils in the loot so the game couldent be gambling.





So -yes this game is gambling in practice but not theory because you dont have peds in the loot.


Please MA i miss the peds in my loot.

 

[Meg]

I cannot stop laughing. Sorry.

Gambling or not, the fact seems to be that for most part of five years, for 999/1000 gamers there is no way to walk away with more than you put into the game.

If I had only logged on, chatted and not played at all for four years, I would have stuff worth 20 x what I own today, market value.

 

[Ace Flyster]

This is the way i look at it, and all gambling activities

1) take away the money aspect, do you still think it is gambling,

if No, then it is not gambling

For me Entropia is not gambling, as without money it is not, but a casino, for me, is gambling, even taking away the money and playing with worthless chips

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: that and i make a steady profit in EU (not possible with gambling), the day i make a steady profit in a casino is the day i live there lol

 

[valentin]

I cannot stop laughing. Sorry.

Gambling or not, the fact seems to be that for most part of five years, for 999/1000 gamers there is no way to walk away with more than you put into the game.

If I had only logged on, chatted and not played at all for four years, I would have stuff worth 20 x what I own today, market value.

You are talking about markups on the items and that is 1 thing we player creates not MA now i only talking about what MA creates,, because for how much peds we are selling ours items is up to os not MA because in MA:s eyes a Mod-Fap is 300 peds in ours its 350k peds.

 

[valentin]

This is the way i look at it, and all gambling activities

1) take away the money aspect, do you still think it is gambling,

if No, then it is not gambling

For me Entropia is not gambling, as without money it is not, but a casino, for me, is gambling, even taking away the money and playing with worthless chips

Rgds

Ace

EDIT: that and i make a steady profit in EU (not possible with gambling), the day i make a steady profit in a casino is the day i live there lol

It may be that some avatars does make a steady profit its just because MA wants it so all other can see that you can do get money in the game, it can be because MA wants that PR.

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

Ahh u to dont be her? u have all the time somthing bulshit to say how much u depo in this game mister massmalow ?how much u lose? and how much u get back? im fuking depozited 10k ped in 1 mont and few days and u come whit ur stupid things i say before its fuking hide behind to one game if it was like casino exacvtly nobody play it right?u can make one game and put only crafting machins no ? u need to make it sofosticate to try to atarct ppl and depozitors

you seem pretty mad


anyway it can not be called a casino because of the massive amount of gear there is out there. I heard an interview long ago with Marco (iirc... not sure) where it was NOT classified as a casino just because you need to gear right, skill right etc to be able to get the loot (to "gamble") in a casino, you go inside and throw the money at the first best table and hope to win. Here you have to go collect armor, weapon, locate the mob as well as have the right skills to be able to gamble on it.. that's why it is not classified as a "casino".


I find it as a casino anyway.


Ah yes, do not forget... MA says that we have a steady return of 90% in the long run, that can NOT be said at a casino

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

You are talking about markups on the items and that is 1 thing we player creates not MA now i only talking about what MA creates,, because for how much peds we are selling ours items is up to os not MA because in MA:s eyes a Mod-Fap is 300 peds in ours its 350k peds.

Like it or not, MA does create the markup by limiting the drops of an item. Take a mod fap for example.... Do you think it would have the same value today if it started to drop of every snable?


MA is aware of the insane MU of high end items, therefor they block their drop rate. They want this high MU for people to deposit peds, more peds in rotation in game means that sooner or later it will be used to craft/hunt and that means decay, where MA wins in the end....


MA is smarter than that, ofc the manipulate the market value of certain items...

 

[ermik]

try spending a month at the same casino , playing on the different games there is.

while you are there also try to sell your chips to other players for more than they are worth.

and report back here when you seem to have a nice steady 90% return.

cheers

ermik

 

[ermik]

and for the record.

treat eu as a casino and thats what it will be.

cheers

ermik

 

[Shimmer]

So, can anyone tell me, without doing a load off math, and in simple english, how this is not gambling?

I mean i put, 500ped in a month, some times i lose it all, somtimes i gain 10x the amount i put in.... doing the same thing, in the same place.

from this i can say, i have no idea, none at all, how much i will get back, so is this not gambling?

If loot is skill base or what ever then how come my results change in a massive way, also loot being skill based is a theory from player is it not? and any other way is a theory and has not been verified by MA...

Not a whine thread, i just don't get it, can we not take MA to court for breaking the law, as me not knowing how much ill get out makes it gambling for me, so MA are providing a service that breaks the swedish law, or somthing like that ?

Hasn't this subject been trashed all ready? Does it matter? Really does it? Huh Huh?

 

[Serica]

and for the record.

treat eu as a casino and thats what it will be.

cheers

ermik

hey,

i am a noob to crafting, and i recently brought a Ore Amp 101 blueprint so that i can craft my own amps

now, should i craft on quantity or condition, i have been crafting on condition,...

And there you have it , I think

 

[STYRM]

PS: off topic: there is a game out there developed at first by only one man... sold 1 mil copies of it @ 10 mil $ profit. the game is still out of Alpha and it's forum has 2000 people online in the morning It makes EU seem kinda lame with 300 ppl on
ps2: it looks like lego

hehe I play minecraft every day.. such a great game but that is a traditional game.. EU is something else.. most ppl play games for entertainment.. I also play EU for entertainment.. more ppl should try that.. instead of chasing hofs..

 

[Shimmer]

hehe I play minecraft every day.. such a great game but that is a traditional game.. EU is something else.. most ppl play games for entertainment.. I also play EU for entertainment.. more ppl should try that.. instead of chasing hofs..

Yup, EU is fucking awesome! Not to be questioned, not to be recomended. Just played, and played like it matters. Because in all other games, besides IRL, it doesn't matter. This one matters. Dun play like an idiot.

 

[Daniel Steps]

difference is that I cannot influence the result of the slot machine. also, in most cases, I do not know what the payback rate is of any individual machine.

In EU just like in a slot machine you can influence the result of the slot machine by walking away (for a while) at the right time. The payback rate of any individual machine is not an unknown, especially if you would monitor an individual slot machine (which is impossible in EU, and not impossible to a certain extend for a slot machine).

and for the record. treat eu as a casino and thats what it will be.

So just because you don't treat a casino like a casino it stopped being one?

EU is like a casino in that you will loose constantly and ad infinitum as long as you spend peds. It's better than a casino in terms of having markup on what you get back (however, and the fans here seem to forget to mention that, the markup is accounted too imo and compensated with a higher loss in your avatar's future - the only way i found to explain my losses). As this is not the same as casinos operate, and is in no way understood by the investigating autorities EU got labelled as not-a-casino. It all depends on your definition of a casino. In terms of (having knowledge of) the odds involved it's worse than a casino: as said by MindArk: there is no way to guarantee you even get a certain item no matter what you do although it is an uncommon drop on a certain mob/bp/area, id est the odds aren't the same for all avatars at all times. They only chance to win (in agreement with the EULA) seems to me to be MindArk selecting your avatar (based on deposits to keep you playing or PR to get others to play?), and knowing when to stop? Not to mention all the bugs that keep costing players money on top of the usual losses (10%?).

 

[STYRM]

Yup, EU is fucking awesome! Not to be questioned, not to be recomended. Just played, and played like it matters. Because in all other games, besides IRL, it doesn't matter. This one matters. Dun play like an idiot.

very well put.. feels like more of the older players think like this... the new ones seems to think its a cash cow.. but dunno.. since the introduction of L items with SIB alot of not-so-skilled players can start playing as they are ubers.. at a much higher price than the actual ubers.. thats why it costs so much.. weapons with really high dmg costs alot too use.. should be simple math..

but Im not complaining over that so many ppl want to play over their heads.. if that was the case in poker then I would need a "real" job.. the game needs producers to feed the players who plays smart and for profit.. the producers play because it is fun to blast away with gigantic weapons using uber protective armour.. and I agree.. its fun as fuck.. but as I say in all threads about hunting and similar.. if you want to continue with this way of playing you also need a gigantic bankroll.. its like playing on the highest poker tables with half a buy in.. you might dubble up if your extremley lucky.. but 99% of the times you will give the money to the ones that grinds those tables 10 hours a day, every day..

 

[Shimmer]

it costs. You and me both been around to long. I think we take EU for granted. MindArk has really made a Universe. You log in.. and you are there, it's not just another game. It's not the same at all. It has bugs. And maybe it is gambling, maybe it isn't. Why does it matter?

It's bleeding edge stuffs. AND it can't be compared, it's fucking awesome.

 

[aridash]

In my non-lawyer interpretation, Entropia Universe is NOT gambling because it is free-to-play.

interesting point, might be valid but im not sure it works logically . if you can play poker for matchsticks or for fun, that doesnt mean the game is not one used for gambling. likewise if i find a £1 in the pub and put it in the fruitie, its still gambling isnt it? or put another way, where your peds came from doesnt matter surely, its the actions and their outcomes that are chance based that makes it a gamble?

why the hell are people trying to argue semantics when gambling is a legal term?

you might as well be arguing what "pornography" is, what driving "too fast" is, or what "intoxicated" is...

not at all semantics. gambling is not a legal term, nor is pornography or intoxication. they all mean somthing, though they might be made illegal somewhere, sometimes.

certainly. however, the difference is that I cannot influence the result of the slot machine. also, in most cases, I do not know what the payback rate is of any individual machine. also, the payout of a slot machine is strictly coin/token.

for me, slot machines are incredibly boring;

unless you are playing a different game to me, i dont know how you are influencing the results. you killl mob, loot it, dice are rolled and a reward given (or not). or are you viewing a whole hunting run, or a self imposed quest as an event? you can certainly influcnce them, but the act looting is the smallest simplest event possible. that imo is where the gamble is.

its good to point out the slot machines, because they are nearly the same as crafting. in fact i'd argue there is more skill involved in playing most fruities (not the one arm type). how anyone cant see a craft machine as a simple gambling machine i dont know (lol at ND actually making them so on Next Island).

And about the USA/Swedish gaming commissions, they were fooled by MA, they obviously don't know anything about the game. Prove me wrong and show me a report by these commissions in which they analyze this game in detail.

be interesting to see the commisions actual views, was there ever a US one? not sure the Swedes were "fooled" more it just doesnt match their definitions, they interpret that the interaction with the game makes it a game outside their scope (i dont think they wanted to find it to be gambling)

(and pls pm that game name for interest)

Because in Sweden, if you play poker with matches instead of money, it is legal but is the money there it will be illegal, but everyone knows what the matches means, so MA change the peds for oils in the loot so the game couldent be gambling.

So -yes this game is gambling in practice but not theory because you dont have peds in the loot.

i will never accept the ped-in-loot thing is related to this unless stated by MA. your loot still has a ped value assigned, you are just looting in denominations of 0.01, 0.3, 0.75 PED. still directly transferable to $ value.

 

[Shimmer]

interesting point, might be valid but im not sure it works logically . if you can play poker for matchsticks or for fun, that doesnt mean the game is not one used for gambling. likewise if i find a £1 in the pub and put it in the fruitie, its still gambling isnt it? or put another way, where your peds came from doesnt matter surely, its the actions and their outcomes that are chance based that makes it a gamble?



not at all semantics. gambling is not a legal term, nor is pornography or intoxication. they all mean somthing, though they might be made illegal somewhere, sometimes.



unless you are playing a different game to me, i dont know how you are influencing the results. you killl mob, loot it, dice are rolled and a reward given (or not). or are you viewing a whole hunting run, or a self imposed quest as an
event? you can certainly influcnce them, but the act looting is the smallest simplest event possible. that imo is where the gamble is.

its good to point out the slot machines, because they are nearly the same as crafting. in fact i'd argue there is more skill involved in playing most fruities (not the one arm type). how anyone cant see a craft machine as a simple gambling machine i dont know (lol at ND actually making them so on Next Island).



be interesting to see the commisions actual views, was there ever a US one? not sure the Swedes were "fooled" more it just doesnt match their definitions, they interpret that the interaction with the game makes it a game outside their scope (i dont think they wanted to find it to be gambling)

(and pls pm that game name for interest)




i will never accept the ped-in-loot thing is related to this unless stated by MA. your loot still has a ped value assigned, you are just looting in denominations of 0.01, 0.3, 0.75 PED. still directly transferable to $ value.

I guess I'm just pissy tonite. But I've seen this same thread posted for many more years than I'd care to admit. WHY DOES IT MATTER?

Say it's gambling... it (EU) gets shut down and you lose everything.. yup it WAS gambling. You can tell all yer frens how you got ripped off!!

OR STFU and leave things be. Hate to say it, but dun play and go away if you don't want to be involed with gambling of any kind. I hope you dun get hit by a bus, nah not really but I'll take 100:1 odds on a bet you won't be

 

[BigBertha]

Well might be a dumb thing to say..

But EU have lots of choices..
u can hunt/mine/craft and thats for sure a risk..
but u can also skill on coloring / being a beauty parlor / reseller or just hang around there not spending one cent
so it is my point this isnt a casino.
On casino u have to pay to be able to play in the slotmachines etc but u have a choice in eu to make..
When u have earned a sum of peds while gather sweat that isnt one usd spent but your hours of gather sweat
my

 

[Shimmer]

Well might be a dumb thing to say..

But EU have lots of choices..
u can hunt/mine/craft and thats for sure a risk..
but u can also skill on coloring / being a beauty parlor / reseller or just hang around there not spending one cent
so it is my point this isnt a casino.
On casino u have to pay to be able to play in the slotmachines etc but u have a choice in eu to make..
When u have earned a sum of peds while gather sweat that isnt one usd spent but your hours of gather sweat
my

Good 2 cents

I raise ya 2 cents.

There is always the play for fun thing..... nah some folks dun get it at all.... raise a rubber.

 

[Mikass]

Meanwhile I think the only people left making a consistent profit are Deathifier and akoz, because of owning the Treasure Island and the LAs. Oh and maybe some oldtimers at hunting and mining, because they know how all the loot-chasing, mob-hopping and "timers" seem to work. End of story.

So who told you how the system works McCormik? I believe loot system is secret.

With Entropia you`ll always get a certain ROI back(tt value) mid-long term. In a casino it just won`t happen. Ofc people are having a debate here about hunting, mining, crafting. These are the professions where loot system applies.

Other professions however can`t even make subject of a discussion since in beauty profession for example some avi provides a service for a fee wasting some materials in the process like in RL but can make a profit by charging materials spent + a premium so he can make a profit.

 

[Shimmer]

So who told you how the system works McCormik? I believe loot system is secret.

With Entropia you`ll always get a certain ROI back(tt value) mid-long term. In a casino it just won`t happen. Ofc people are having a debate here about hunting, mining, crafting. These are the professions where loot system applies.

Other professions however can`t even make subject of a discussion since in beauty profession for example some avi provides a service for a fee wasting some materials in the process like in RL but can make a profit by charging materials spent + a premium so he can make a profit.

It's a video game! The best one, but a video game none the less....ROI? I'm my ROIal ass off

 

[billairboy]

The game it self is not gambling, but the game can be used in a way that are similar to gambling, like crafting on condition and hopeing to get big hofs. It's a bit similar to the stock market, buying shares in some small new companies can be like a gamble. The trade between the players and the MU on items are also a factor that makes more like a virtual economy than a gambling game, because you can make money with the help of your own work and creativity.