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Imp. Auction Effects on Shops

JohnCapital

JohnCapital

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John Teacher Capital
The problem with shops has always been their difficulty in competing with the auction. And now that the auction's new features are making it even better than before to use, I can't see shops going anything but down.

Buying:
  • Mall shops = 500 ped (600 for largest ones)
  • Booths = 150
  • Apt. complex shops = 100
  • Shopkeepers = 50
  • CND shops = 25

Unless anyone can prove me wrong. ;)
 
It's always been easier to use the auction than shops, but the successful shops succeed by stocking a good range of items at competitive prices.

It was worth the extra effort to go to the shop that you knew would have what you wanted at a lower price than the auction, and that is still the case.

So I don't think shops will be affected much by this at all.

Good luck buying one though :D
 
Price is the decider for me. If something is in auction cheaper than the shops, the auction gets my custom.

The shops need to compete on price imho. If they can't do this, they will fail. As any business in RL that can't compete in the marketplace will.
 
nutter said:
Price is the decider for me. If something is in auction cheaper than the shops, the auction gets my custom.

The shops need to compete on price imho. If they can't do this, they will fail. As any business in RL that can't compete in the marketplace will.
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Wrong. As Oleg mentioned, many times you can find items cheaper in stores than the auction.

However, checking all 4 malls, plus the Corinth booths, apt. complex shops, etc. can literally take hours to find that gun that's currently 2% cheaper than auctions.

The vast majority of players do not use highly informative sites, like EntropiaBay. And without any simple ingame system to point us towards the right shops, it's basically hunt/peck or auction.

The problem isn't price, it's time & information.
 
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JohnCapital said:
Wrong. As Oleg mentioned, many times you can find items cheaper in stores than the auction.

However, checking all 4 malls, plus the Corinth booths, apt. complex shops, etc. can literally take hours to find that gun that's currently 2% cheaper than auctions.

The vast majority of players do not use highly informative sites, like EntropiaBay. And without any simple ingame system to point us towards the right shops, it's basically hunt/peck or auction.

The problem isn't price, it's time & information.
Click to expand...

That's why I find it's best to have 2 or 3 shops that get your regular business because you know you'll find the stuff you use there.

I don't buy L guns often now but when I used to buy a lot I had 3 shops I'd check and I didn't bother looking at any others. Usually I found what I wanted.

Shops like that will always do well, and shops that aren't like that will always do badly.
 
Nighthawk said:
Price + marketing is what makes shops succeed...


I wonder if MA/FPC are planning anything to help shops though? :scratch2:

EDIT: Made a short thread about shops and shop directories, with a poll, picture, and suggestion: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/183282-shop-directory.html
Click to expand...

Already been a thread like that not too long ago:
device to check shops

And I dont see these new auction things make it worse then before, and I have to disagree most shops have lower then auction prices.
I been running to all these places from now and then checking for something and most have ridiculous prices, some however have good prices and those are on a paper at my desk now so it's easier next time.
 
Shops should have option to sell stackable items from stacks at least now when we have tier items...
 
crossing fingers...

I'm crossing my fingers in hopes that the next big improvement to auction will be addition of a shop directory! ;)

I highly doubt shops will go to that low of a price... Right now Calypso shop prices are lower than normal because people are antsy about the new planets... New planets will have shops - or at least Next Island will according to David Post. I assume others might too...

BUT...

Supply/Demand issues always dictate prices... Even if 500 new shops enter the game, odds are likely the new shops will be higher priced due to new opportunities on other planets... However, ultimately, like irl, there's only so many estates out there... so once the supply is met, and demand continues to grow prices will likely start going up again.

Also, it's highly likely some may go to new planets for a while, find them boring and come back home to Calypso down the road sometime. When more come back, the demand for estates in Calypso will go up again too.

If prices do drop, consider it a lucky streak, and buy, buy buy... but please only buy if you actually plan to use the places. We don't need another bunch of empty shops in game with rent not paid up.
 
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JohnCapital said:
Buying:
  • Mall shops = 500 ped (600 for largest ones)
  • Booths = 150
  • Apt. complex shops = 100
  • Shopkeepers = 50
  • CND shops = 25

Unless anyone can prove me wrong. ;)
Click to expand...

if you receive any offer with those prices, you're right; otherwise, consider yourself proven wrong :p

now seriously... yeah, i agree that the "improved auction" will not help shops, but shop owners should know that there are two ways to setup a shop:
- stock it with crap, use it as storage or as a non-fee auction, with overpriced junk, and cross your fingers that a naive buyer will bite
- stock it with good stuff, at a nice price, and advertise it properly, and buyers will come

unfortunately the ratio is like 9/1 of each of the above kind of shops
 
The high price of items in shop is due to the stupidity of most shop owners.

As a shop owner, I can tell ya wrong because: when you put your items for sale in shop, the tax fee you pay is always less than auction, can be even 2-3 peds less.

Therefore, I can always put my items @ lower price than auction but still gain more from selling in auction.
 
Oleg said:
It's always been easier to use the auction than shops, but the successful shops succeed by stocking a good range of items at competitive prices.

It was worth the extra effort to go to the shop that you knew would have what you wanted at a lower price than the auction, and that is still the case.

So I don't think shops will be affected much by this at all.

Good luck buying one though :D
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I do wish I could find a shop or two like you describe. I usually go away empty handed wondering why shop owners think the stuff in their shops is worth so much more than the same stuff you can get at auction for the actual MV, not some insane fairyland MU. :scratch2:

nlnforever said:
The high price of items in shop is due to the stupidity of most shop owners.

As a shop owner, I can tell ya wrong because: when you put your items for sale in shop, the tax fee you pay is always less than auction, can be even 2-3 peds less.

Therefore, I can always put my items @ lower price than auction but still gain more from selling in auction.
Click to expand...

I would use a different word but yeah, that pretty much sums it up. You should give a class. ;)

Give us a search tool to find what we're looking for and reasonable pricing from the vendors themselves and imo the shops will start to thrive instead of withering away like they are now. :(
 
Would be nice if a shop's/shopkeeper's inventory could be built into the auction system.

For example, you want to buy an Apis. You go to auction, search for Apis, and all Apis' that are available for purchase, in auction and at any shop/shopkeeper, are listed.

Greater exposure for the shopowner that can remain competitive with auction prices.
 
Grrrrr said:
Would be nice if a shop's/shopkeeper's inventory could be built into the auction system.

For example, you want to buy an Apis. You go to auction, search for Apis, and all Apis' that are available for purchase, in auction and at any shop/shopkeeper, are listed.

Greater exposure for the shopowner that can remain competitive with auction prices.
Click to expand...

If that happened then the shopowners would dominate the market totally, since they would effectively be able to list items on auction indefinitely without paying an upfront fee.

Anyone selling Apis who didn't own a shop would be lucky to sell any without making a loss on them.
 
Oleg said:
If that happened then the shopowners would dominate the market totally, since they would effectively be able to list items on auction indefinitely without paying an upfront fee.

Anyone selling Apis who didn't own a shop would be lucky to sell any without making a loss on them.
Click to expand...

Somehow I don't think MA would let this happen ;)
 
Imho the actual auction improvements doesn´t effect the shops very much.

The receipe of a successful shop is constant supply at fair prices.

There are not much shops that offer this, but if you find one you will surely remember it and buy regularly.
 
Auction has got easier to use for people who already find auction convenient.

Auction is an utterly different proposition to shops.

As part of a group that owns shops, I'm not in the least concerned by this latest development - nay, I'm a fan of it because I use auction sometimes myself!

The reason I'm not concerned is because our shops don't try to compete with auction. We have a whole different set of values and reasons for existence, and experience regular business because we give value to our customers. Making auction more convenient doesn't matter in the slightest - it's good for everybody.

People who are running a shop and trying to succeed based on competing with auction are already fighting a losing battle imho. Serious shop owners who are currrently happy with their business, won't be affected as they obvious offer something that auction can't offer, or they wouldn't be surviving.
 
We had a discussion about shops and auctions earlyer.

Some really nice ideas where posted how to improve shops vs auctions.
Some more ideas where posted what could be done with auction to improve shops vs auction (some of them I really don´t want to see, as I like auction as it is).

If you like to check this old thread, here is the link
 
JC you seem to count on the fact that shops will be still the same. I dont share that opinion. I think there will be update, so it will be easier for us to browse through the shop offers and compare prices better. But thats just speculation ofc.

Another fact that is a problem with shops, is that majority of em offers VERY BAD OFFERS! All the time, when I see some item in shop, I check the price to have a good laught. Seems to me, that many shopowners set some price 1year ago and dont bother themselves to check on the actual price. When I see item that is 2x more expensive than it should be - I dont bother checking other "great" offers in that shop, and just dont visit it anymore.

Imo theres about 20% of good shops, offering competitive prices on regular basis!

If you sell things that are needed all the time (wepons, finders, amps, armors, plates maybe furniture etc.) and you have stable and competitive prices for a longer period of time - you will have your customers.
 
If that happened then the shopowners would dominate the market totally, since they would effectively be able to list items on auction indefinitely without paying an upfront fee.
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Monthly rent sure seems like an up front fee to me... Lets get that maintenance man to do more than just oil the garage door.
 
mastermesh said:
Monthly rent sure seems like an up front fee to me... Lets get that maintenance man to do more than just oil the garage door.
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Rent is a fixed cost, it isn't affected by the number of items.

I'm talking about the upfront fee on placing an item in auction. Listing shop items in auction is like being able to place items with no expiry and no fee. Everyone else has to pay and only gets 7 days maximum.

It should be pretty clear that that would be a major and unassailable advantage.
 
I second this notion, a shop owner should have the ability to put large stacks in the shop and let buyers buy the qty they want.

This would be a huge advantage for shops and I think you would see more items in shops that you may not see in auction so often such as lower demand crafted components etc.

Plus you would see resource shops pop up that would let noob and L BP crafters come in and buy what they need exactly at an affordable price.

Lighthead said:
Shops should have option to sell stackable items from stacks at least now when we have tier items...
Click to expand...
 
Marco|FPC said:
FPC is discussing this with MA. From my POV the shops needs a higher level of usability and quick-search directories. Among other enhancements.
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want to help shop?

just do a "shop terminal" in which u can search what u need and direct tp to the shop who have what u need at the price u need. and no, NO TP FEE :)

option 2: include shop listed items in the auction, with a special color, which tell u the location of the item u need.

yeah yeah i know, whats the point of having a ggood located and expensive shop with that system, but well, will still be better for all shop owners. U can also offer direct tp to the shops in the malls and no direct tp for others...
 
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Marco|FPC said:
FPC is discussing this with MA. From my POV the shops needs a higher level of usability and quick-search directories. Among other enhancements.
Click to expand...

Appreciate that, especially because MA f...ed up my Deer Mall Shop with a much to high fee, compared to my original bought Torkells Tomb shop.

If MA wants me to stay in business as a shop owner, there needs to be some major thing be done!

1. Remove the minimum markup of +1 PED in shops, and let shopowners offer items at very low markups (at a minimum +0,01 PED on items, and just a % setting on stackables).
2. Include shop sales into calculation of market history
3. Allow shopowners offering large stacks and let the customer decide how much of this stack he/she wants to buy
4. Add the option of autorestocking, with items you got in storage (f.e. OA, carfted weapons and other staff thats actually isn´t stackable!). I would like to offer a stack of 100 OA-101 as well, it makes no sence that those 100 OAs need 100 itempoints in a shop!

Those few points would drastically improve shops!
All except point 4 should be easy codeable!
Point 4 will be a little more work, but still doable within a reasonable timescale.

+REP to Marco for listening!
 
I dont like this point, does not allow me to sell items in shop for below market value without hurting the market value. I can sell things like 6b armor plates a few peds below market price without hurting auction sales but if shop sales get calculated in the daily MU then I no longer could offer the plates below market but instead would have to match market price to preserve the value.

the other 3 points i like though :)

GoNi said:
2. Include shop sales into calculation of market history
Click to expand...
 
I'm talking about the upfront fee on placing an item in auction. Listing shop items in auction is like being able to place items with no expiry and no fee. Everyone else has to pay and only gets 7 days maximum.

It should be pretty clear that that would be a major and unassailable advantage.
Click to expand...

That advantage would give the estates more of a value. It also might give estate owners more of a reason to pay rent if the only way to get the auction listing is to pay the rent... right now a lot of estate owners don't regularly pay rent because the estate is nothing more than what is basically a storage box for them. Giving them an incentive to pay rent, such as free listing of all items in the shop (or shopkeeper in apartments, etc.) in the auction sounds an awesome idea - and win/win for both the estate owners and MA/FPC since it'll mean rent gets paid more often. It also might help loot pool if the theory that rent payments go in to loot pool has any truth to it, which would make it a win/win for everyone in the community! :) ;)
 
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