Menu
What's New
By:
Filters

Investing in MindArk and Project Entropia

Status
D

Devil Doll

Stalker
Banned
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Posts
2,229
Location
Seattle, WA
Society
The Jaded Crown
Avatar Name
King Buzz Buzzo
I didn't quite know what to name this thread so if the name is misleading please change it MB.

What follows is an interesting write-up that I found while doing a bit of poking around. I don't know what it all means (I haven't found the answers to several questions it raises) so that is why I wanted to post it here. My main question is what is "Bridge". Anyhow, research is hard because I cannot read Swedish.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.vlado.se/bridge/case/Mindark_PE_AB_EN.pdf

------------------------------------------------------------------------

DD
:evilking:
 
sonova...

i just realized that the damned pc im using doesnt have a.a.... *sigh* lol guess ill have to wait to read it :laugh:
 
Nice find DD.... I recommend every1 read this....

Btw- I believe in this case, Bridge owners are referring to ppl who will be buying MA AB stock.... they speak of MA looking for an appropriate stock market (real world) where bridge investors can trade

edit- adding.... ok so I reread it and it appears that "bridge" refers to ppl that do not currently hold stock in MA AB (as there is none to hold) but have some sort of deal with MA over future holdings... hopefully some1 here can clarify
 
Last edited:
Devil Doll said:
I didn't quite know what to name this thread so if the name is misleading please change it MB.

What follows is an interesting write-up that I found while doing a bit of poking around. I don't know what it all means (I haven't found the answers to several questions it raises) so that is why I wanted to post it here. My main question is what is "Bridge". Anyhow, research is hard because I cannot read Swedish.


DD
:evilking:
Click to expand...

This is Bridge : http://www.mybridgeportal.com/info.asp

I'm too tired to read it all now, but it sounds like total BS to me. Reminds me of those people who tries to start PE banks. "Give me 100 peds and you'll get 200 back".

I guess MA has offered Bridge members to buy shares. When companies are going to be introduced to a stock exchange, they make offers like this. You get to buy shares at a fixed price, and that price is what the share is worth on day 1 at the exchange. I hope I'm making sense... I bet there's an english term for it that I don't know. :)

Good find btw DD.
 
Good find to you too Dark :girl: Thx for linking that...
so Bridge is what I suspected.... those between the company's private and public strata, who can somehow manage to "invest" in a company b4 it's gone public.
 
Darkaner said:
This is Bridge : http://www.mybridgeportal.com/info.asp
Click to expand...

From the verbiage in the document I suspected it was an organization such as that. Thanks for posting the link.

For those who may not be following what is going on here. According to the peice, MA is looking for investors and hopes to be listed on a stock exchange at some point in the future.

DD
:evilking:
 
MA looking to expand. Upgrade servers etc. They are looking to offload some of the investment costs. Investors will be offered a return for thier investment, with risk ofcourse and Mindark get to keep thier capital so as not to risk thier financial stability.....in a nutshell so to speak.

All pretty standard stuff, and very responsible off them too.

Good On YA MA :) Best Wishes to you, hope it all goes well. I for one shall look forward to reeping the benefits of further investment. :)
 
YAAAY downloaded a.a. and walked off to read a book... came back and reread DD's post. began to respond to what Bridge was...
read Darks post and slapped myself... so i guess i have nothing to say :rolleyes: until i think of something, that is.
+ reps DD.
 
Excellent find DD, +Rep for that!

If MA does go through with this, and they get a few bridge investors, it could make things a whole lot better.

My previous place of work, Gravitys Edge Computers, was founded by the owner, who put absolutely -NO- money into the making and operating of the business. He had silent investors, who basically saw that he had a brilliant idea and wanted to see future profits from it, so they gave him large sums of money.

Good work MA, glad to see you guys acting like the business men you are!!

*EDIT* Crap, gotta spread it around first DD :p
 
Last edited:
More than 450k accounts? 90k active players? Did they just create an account and ask the first noob they found in PA about the stuff they couldn't find elsewhere?
 
Cool find... nice to know MA is goin somewhere. But my favorite part about the article????

BYGGBOOM!!!! dunno what it means but it looks funny
 
So the question is... Which Stock Market might MA float on ;)

Personally I like to see the AIM in London. Partly because its easier for me to buy shares in it ;)

Still interesting stuff. MA looks like they are getting their act together on the business front.
 
So what's everybody's opinion on it?

Personally, I find it thrilling to know that MA apparently is doing well enoguh to warrant going to the market. This means they are making big profits (nothing wrong with that, seeing as how they invested aplenty).

The cynic in me, however, feels that most companies (and more importantly their moral values and customer-care and what not) who head on the stock market will no longer be free to pledge what they promised before.

From then on, the company is run by rich people who want to become richer. Most of these could care less about the players who invest their hard-earned money, and will make demands that profit is somehow ever increased. Sure, if the stock sells, MA will get a major boost, but do know that as soon as there would be some setbacks, a lot of these greedie people will dump the stock without a flinch, and they frankly could care less about poor John Doe who that move cost his PE items...

MA, please please please live up to your promise that the players are vital for the game, and that they will be listened to. Please, if and when this goes through, recognise most of these investors for what they are: greedy people. Don't let them control your passions.

(Note that I am NOT talking about investors with a love for the game. People like Deathifier, you and me, who like the game so much that they are willing to pump money into it, and who, while maybe hoping for a little profit, would prefer losing a few PEDs than seeing their bankstatements show ever increasing numbers).

Just my :twocents: ... Curious to see what others think?
 
They should offer all players the possibility to buy shares before going on the free marked with them. I don't think they could get better owners than the players themselves.
 
mjukis said:
More than 450k accounts? 90k active players? Did they just create an account and ask the first noob they found in PA about the stuff they couldn't find elsewhere?
Click to expand...

I agree with mjukis about this, there is no way there are 90k active players inolved in PE, I think even 10k is an unrealistic figure.

On the 2 biggest PE forums there are 11,818 members and its fair to say that most of the people here have an account on the other forum - whether it is used or not. So 11k is a generous number considering some will have multiple accounts etc.

I don't believe for one moment that both of these forums together represent such a low percentage of players.

Everytime I log in I either know people I see or I have seen them on a forum - very, very few people I see in PE are complete strangers and if there were 10k active players I would think that the majority would be strangers, not a small minority.

*If* this figure is fabricated then what about all the other figures mentioned in that document?
 
I posted DD's links on a forum that discuss swedish gaming companies, and got a response from one of the veterans who happens to be a member of Bridge. Seems like Bridge is more serious than I thought... Anyway, he said that you could sign up as a pre-member if you want to get invited to the roadshow and get the offer to buy shares. He also said that he was surprised over MA's good economy, and that this years turnover is estimated to 35 Msek and the profit is estimated to 11 Msek. ($1 = 7-8 sek (sek = swedish crowns)).
 
DarkAngel said:
They should offer all players the possibility to buy shares before going on the free marked with them. I don't think they could get better owners than the players themselves.
Click to expand...

That's an awesome idea. Perhaps reward players for depositing? I.e. every 10 PED you deposit gets you 1 share or something.
 
ViagraFalls said:
That's an awesome idea. Perhaps reward players for depositing? I.e. every 10 PED you deposit gets you 1 share or something.
Click to expand...

:tongue2: I will own 70% of the shares then ;)
 
Thx for link.

It is interesting and maybe I put in a couple of K USD after further investigations.

/Kjetil :cool:
 
Same here I think =) Mabey MA will listen to my improvments in PE after a few K US =))
Like ignore list in Friendlist etc etc. To make the life on Calypso easier :)
 
yup bridge seems like pyramid scam/direct sales/network marketing bubble, i'll wait until i can buy MA shares from real stock exchange company, and i'll buy...

no bridge ty :kos:
 
Its interesting because a long time ago you could buy shares on the PE Virtual Exchange in "Friends of MindArk". The prospectus for this suggested that you could essentially buy shares in MindArk.

So maybe they'll do that again ;)
 
Its interesting that they project 11 million SEK for a profit in 2005. One big question I have is if they subtract the current amount of peds and tt value of items in game from their revenue as part of the calculation. If not I think that number is quite misleading.

I also liked seeing that they claim 90,000 active members. I wonder what their criteria was though? depositing? logged on in the last month?

Very nice find DD :D
 
ViagraFalls said:
The cynic in me, however, feels that most companies (and more importantly their moral values and customer-care and what not) who head on the stock market will no longer be free to pledge what they promised before.

From then on, the company is run by rich people who want to become richer. Most of these could care less about the players who invest their hard-earned money, and will make demands that profit is somehow ever increased.
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from. However, in a company structured such as MA this can only be a good thing IMO. They are going to be raising significant capital from investors. These investors, for the most part, will be shrewd business people with a desire to see a return on their investment.

What will result from this will be a real drive for MA to be a profitable GROWTH based company. In order to grow they will need to do all of the things we think they should do. Expand development, increase advertising and improve gameplay.

I think getting investors and seeking the market are the first huge steps toward the game making some radical advances we all have discussed in the past.

Also, Aziphrael (sp?) I love the idea of shares through the ingame market. You pay your PED and MindArk sends you the certificates keeping the investment. Just a few legal loopholes they would need to shore up but a great idea IMO.

DD
:evilking:
 
Devil Doll said:
Also, Aziphrael (sp?) I love the idea of shares through the ingame market. You pay your PED and MindArk sends you the certificates keeping the investment. Just a few legal loopholes they would need to shore up but a great idea IMO.
Click to expand...

Not certain they could do that.... could they :confused:
The article does interestingly state
This money can be used to buy items in the game and soon you will be able to invest in Entropia’s own virtual Stock market.
Click to expand...

In any event- I am prone to go along with DD's perspective on this issue. I believe that MA going public would actually help all of us see this game grow to the heights we've been asking for (ie. better support, technical fixes, etc). Look at SONY ;)
 
The income from the sale will be used to develop the game further, with a focus on more income opportunities for both the players and the company, and to upgrade hardware to handle the rapid growth of new players.

Would be better if they focused on better support and more fun for less money if you ask me. New income opportunities for both MA and the players, in addition to the investors wanting money means that someone will have to pay, the mid level players who can't afford to utilize these new opportunities perhaps? I think it's great that they make new stuff, that will hopefully mean more fun. But to make too many sources of income for the wealthy will mean that eventually mid level players won't get enough fun for their money anymore. I hope they really think everything through properly this time and not just make stuff that sounds good to the investors.
[edit]sounded kinda whiny when I read it through, but that was not my intention. I will probably be one of the people that can afford whatever new things that will come, it's just that I get worried about the survival of the game when I read stuff like this. MA needs the middle class to stay alive and they can't count on them paying more and more money to play because the upper class wants more profit.
 
Dash Smashing said:
http://www.bridgeltd.com/index.php?sub=23&p=6&c=282page=


hrmm.. when i first went to the bridge page it seemed like a pyramid scam..

i dunno if i'd join just to get first bite at MA shares.. I'll wait until the initial public offering to pick mine up. =/
Click to expand...


yea i read that site you need to deposit 10,500 mininum investment. I dont think it's a pyramid scam it's just basically a investment group for ppl that can invest a lot initially it think but i dont got that kinda cash.


I would buy shares though if it went totally public though.
 
Devil Doll said:
I see where you are coming from. However, in a company structured such as MA this can only be a good thing IMO. They are going to be raising significant capital from investors. These investors, for the most part, will be shrewd business people with a desire to see a return on their investment.

What will result from this will be a real drive for MA to be a profitable GROWTH based company. In order to grow they will need to do all of the things we think they should do. Expand development, increase advertising and improve gameplay.

I think getting investors and seeking the market are the first huge steps toward the game making some radical advances we all have discussed in the past.

Also, Aziphrael (sp?) I love the idea of shares through the ingame market. You pay your PED and MindArk sends you the certificates keeping the investment. Just a few legal loopholes they would need to shore up but a great idea IMO.

DD
:evilking:
Click to expand...

Yup plenty of loopholes.

Although having said that, it would be easier for MA to trade shares in game if they remain a private limited company rather then go public. They would probably have to do some serious fiddling of what you can and cannot do with regards to selling shares to players.
 
I for one would like to see MA go public as this would add much needed transparency in the biz and in PE. Customers (players) would feel better depositing money into a site which is a public company who needs to report figures.

It would also force MA to become more accessable to the general public and customers alike.

Being a small Internet company, private "paper" isn't worth shit, and thus their ability to raise capital at a low cost and to make purchases of other companies would be much enhanced going into the public market. That said, there are a lot of costs associated with being public and reporting, and the pressure to meet and exceed earnings will start from day one. Hopefully this will have an overall positive effect for the players.

Since PE deals in real cash, I would like to see the movement of cash in and out of PE done more in line with other transactional Internet biz's like gaming (as in gambling) sites. That is, in any other biz, cashouts are done very quickly (poker sites, casinos, etc) where there is the same level if not more fraud etc which needs to be dealt with. Why would most people feel comfortable depositing lets say 5kusd, if they knew that it would take 6 months to make a w/d?? That's a little crazy.

Depositing real cash infers a level of TRUST in the company you are handing money over to. I personally would feel better if there was a call center number I could call and speak with someone about my account when/if there is a problem.

Semdog :)
 
Status
Back
Top