Is it Deposits, or Cycled PEDs....

[valentin]

my biggest loot was 1250 ped on a molisk young in 2005, after my first deposit of 350 ped. I played for free in 2004, from 2005-now I deposited 35 euro's a month, never got more than that first loot back in 2005.
I don't think it;s tied to deposits nor cycled ped. Its about being in the right place at the right time with the right equipment.

Its about being in the right place at the right time with the right equipment = 100% luck ---> and 100% lottery.

 

[RobBuona]

I'm trying to understand what your saying between the few lines you wrote.

You only deposited ~300 ped a few years ago, and now from only that 300 ped investment you cycle 150k ped every month and that nets you on average +7k ped a month, or ~.05% on your money.

And your comment, "Good luck with the gambling... seriously, what's wrong with people?" means, your not gambling?

I'm guessing you mean, you were able to depo 300 ped and trade that up to a ped balance that allows you to cycle 150k a month now in a designated activity that you do so well that your able to consistently generate +7k a month, and because other people aren't doing that or don't know how, they are gambling and you are not.

Is that what you mean?

I see your avatar is hidden on tracker, so I can't see what your up to, but thanks for clarifying

Hint hint: he's a miner.

 

[Karmic]

Loot has nothing to do with deposits, it is only your actions in game. How you play dramatically affects your return, people used to throw around 95% now they throw 90% yet over the long term my average has not seemed to change any between the old 95% claim and the new 90% claim.

 

[Thorns Rose]

I'm starting to think my luck just sucks.

I'm also thinking more and more about the Team vs. Solo dynamic. I team with my wife 99% of the time, so I have to wonder if that has an impact on loots vs. solo on the same hunt.

On the positive side... as long as we have fun, that's what it comes down to.

I am mystified at the low amount she deposits and still gets global?..Ok scratch that..I'm envious actually!.But yes same thing has crossed my mind if the idea of hunting "in team" or not changes the dynamic of the loot at all. I think that should be tested also..Great food for thought!


*subscribing*

P.S.
Those globals..Can I hunt with your wife and you?..LOL!

 

[Dante]

I'm pretty sure it's all about how much you cycle.

I think the reason why people think globals/hofs come after a deposit is that you drastically increase your cycle ingame. When you have PED from a depo, you think, lets use it, right? While as before depositing you are trying to waste as little as possible to make it last longer.

Also, I find that the bad periods tend to stretch that far till you are totally out of PED and then BAM, comes payback. On lower PED cards (like below 1k) you might run out of PED during a bad run, but when you deposit you are able to get through that last piece and get into the good ones.

About 5k+, I think uberhofs are a "get right" loot for some people with high losses, for others completely lucky (or they get the good stuff at the beginning of the cycle and balances out after with loss periods)

 

[RexDameon]

how much you deposits has NOTHING to do with loot thats a fact. There are way to many rags to riches stories and i have the same experience as you with depositing with only one person.

I've seen many non depositing newbs do just awesome with loot who just play smart.

Loot to me always seems to follow this magic formual if you want my theroy.
You need to have this crazy balance of equipment to skills to activity yoru doing (i.e hunting the right sized mob with the right equipment that fit your skills)

Which was fun at first when you have low skills but when you kinda want to stick around a certain budget tends to suck a little.

 

[Ridge Batty]

Well, you have also a great lucky since you are only a newbie:... Daikiba 1k, Drone 8k, Craft 2.4k, Mining 19k (this last, august 2011)----

...what I'm trying to say (and sorry for being a bit unclear) is just the opposite.

There isn't much "luck" to talk about. What are those hofs compared to my turnover...? let's see... 1-2% maybe.

Yeah, I've been so lucky.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

...what I'm trying to say (and sorry for being a bit unclear) is just the opposite.

There isn't much "luck" to talk about. What are those hofs compared to my turnover...? let's see... 1-2% maybe.

Yeah, I've been so lucky.

You only see the part that you want to see... like i said in my previous post... it is very possible, that not only the big turnover, will be the cause of good loot.. rather another causes unknown for us....because exists in the game, Ubers like Naomi, i am sure with many many more turnover of peds than you; but she only have received ubers-loots like you, or lower (i believe she has not received 19k ever) ... and for that reason, she complained in EF, about other Ubers like she, who have received very good uberloots, and ATHs....

I say that turnover is very very very important. But in my opinion, exists, besides, something wrong with the internal "lucky" algorithm; because independently to the turnover, some people may receive 2 or three uberloots in the same day, inclusive from very stupid differents things, and for other hand, other people, never could do the same with same turnover....

I am not speaking about TT return rate....maybe is similar to all people... however, is different to be compensated with globals, or to be compensated without globals; .... and is different to be compensated with ATHs, or to be compensated only with HOFs.... Because, If you are compensated with ATHs, you can choose withdrawal your own money...but in other way, only time is your friend...

Remember this... you might not do a big turnover of peds... with only 300 peds of deposits in two years of playing....ooOOOooOOOoo..... 300 peds is nothing!!.. And do not justify an Uberloot from Daikiba....And (with this loot -1k-) it is not possible, either, justify a turnover whose results will be another 8k Uberloot from Drone.....

Only your "lucky", let you receive money to make a big turnover like you tell us.... And do not forget this... I said "lucky" ("") because behind of it, exists a computer algorithm... (In my opinion, poorly worked by Mindark)

 

[sndlwood]

Another tangent of that I was considering, was teams. Let's say that one of the theories (PEDs cycled or deposited, or decay/economy) has a large influence on loot. What if you're teamed? If you cycle a lot/deposit a lot, and team with someone who is being very economical and doesn't deposit a lot, are you hurting your chances at loot on the hunt?

In my case it doesn't seem so, we got an ATH with 2 hunters (before kitty did) one really big spender and me to mooch a share of any items looted..I think the highest success factor is the amount you cycle per activity and possibly your speed at doing so. My experience has been that casual involvement, with short periods of activity, little in the way of cycling PED and infrequent deposits, leads to boredom and a slow drain of resources.

 

[Mac]

...amount you cycle per activity and possibly your speed at doing so...

I've always believed it to be the case, but have had no great success to date, trying to make it work.

Back in the day, Jessica and I used to camp D4 @ CP with two RJs cranking non-stop for hours night after night cycling thousands of peds on ammo and decay and at most we would get a couple hundred ped hof's (see my gallery, those aren't there because of the size of the hofs, they are our reminders.) and enough stink tree paintings to wall paper calypso, only to have someone else hit ATH on a weak / young...

Since I've been back, we've had a few "date nights" where we cycle hard and have not had any notable success, she said to me last night, "Have you noticed we don't hof? ( meaning, something notable, not the global size hofs because the board got wiped clean). And ya, I've noticed. We cranked on Steel Birds for hours, got a few small globs, someone else showed up and in 20 mins hit a 3k. Not the first time I've been in the same radar screen and had that happen, probably not the last. I assume we've got an entry in a no_phat_lewtz_4_u table somewhere in the db, but I'm willing for them to prove me wrong

 

[RexDameon]

I've always believed it to be the case, but have had no great success to date, trying to make it work.

Back in the day, Jessica and I used to camp D4 @ CP with two RJs cranking non-stop for hours night after night cycling thousands of peds on ammo and decay and at most we would get a couple hundred ped hof's (see my gallery, those aren't there because of the size of the hofs, they are our reminders.) and enough stink tree paintings to wall paper calypso, only to have someone else hit ATH on a weak / young...

Since I've been back, we've had a few "date nights" where we cycle hard and have not had any notable success, she said to me last night, "Have you noticed we don't hof? ( meaning, something notable, not the global size hofs because the board got wiped clean). And ya, I've noticed. We cranked on Steel Birds for hours, got a few small globs, someone else showed up and in 20 mins hit a 3k. Not the first time I've been in the same radar screen and had that happen, probably not the last. I assume we've got an entry in a no_phat_lewtz_4_u table somewhere in the db, but I'm willing for them to prove me wrong

yea i kinda got the same thing going on. So i stick to hunting with Opalo most of the time, and just flying people around for fun.

 

[Profit]

My opinion is that a player's personal deposit history has no weight when deciding your return.
Depositing does however allow you to cycle more PED.
At the very least, cycling PED allows you more loot opportunities and you wouldn't be crazy to assume that having more loot opportunities would increase the likelihood of you receiving a larger loot.

 

[mastermesh]

My opinion is that a player's personal deposit history has no weight when deciding your return.
Depositing does however allow you to cycle more PED.
At the very least, cycling PED allows you more loot opportunities and you wouldn't be crazy to assume that having more loot opportunities would increase the likelihood of you receiving a larger loot.

yes and no... if it worked like that all the time everyone would profit doing basic filters if they do autocrafting all day long... and that definitely doesn't always happen.... but maybe the odds doing that are a little better, much like someone playing penny slots instead of quarter slots... of course 100x penny in winnings is always lower then 100xquarters in winnings, lol.

multipliers are important in gambling, but since this is more then a casino, skills have to play some part.

 

[RobBuona]

You only see the part you want to see... like i said in my post... it is very possible not only the big turnover as a cause of good loot.. if not another causes unknown for us....because exists in the game, Ubers like Naomi, i am sure with a many many more turnover like you, and She only have ubers loots like you or lower (i believe she has not received 19k ever) ... and she complains in EF about other Ubers like she, who have received good uberloots and ATHs....

I say that turnover is very very very important, but in my opinion, exists besides something wrong with the internal "lucky" algorithm, because independently to the turnover, some people may recieve 2 or three uberloots in the same day, from very stupid differents things, and other people, never could do the same....

I am not speaking about TT return rate....maybe is similar to all people... however is different to be compensated with globals and to be compensated without globals.... and is different to be compensated with ATHs and to be compensated only with HOFs.... If you are compensated with ATHs, you can choose withdrawal your money...but in other way, only time is your friend...


Remember this... you could not have made a big turnover ever... with only 300 peds of deposits in two years of playing...ooOOOooOOOoo..... 300 peds is nothing!!....Only your "lucky" let you have money to make a real turnover.... do not forget that... and is a "lucky" because behind of it, exists a computer algorithm...

I think you are over-thinking it, Xavier. Would you say that if one day someone decides to buy a single lottery ticket out of the blue and wins the mega-millions that that person has something extraordinary going on? Yes, millions of people are buying tens, even hundreds of tickets, but the very fact that the system is fair means that something like that can happen. And it has happened.

It's the same thing as someone camping the same mob all night, cycling thousands of PEDs, and then someone waltzing in and ubering out of nowhere. In a fair system, that sort of thing will be possible. And I haven't cycled thousands of PEDs in a night, so you could say it's easy for me to say that. And it sucks for most, but that is the reality.

 

[Xavier_Jr]

I think you are over-thinking it, Xavier. Would you say that if one day someone decides to buy a single lottery ticket out of the blue and wins the mega-millions that that person has something extraordinary going on? Yes, millions of people are buying tens, even hundreds of tickets, but the very fact that the system is fair means that something like that can happen. And it has happened.

It's the same thing as someone camping the same mob all night, cycling thousands of PEDs, and then someone waltzing in and ubering out of nowhere. In a fair system, that sort of thing will be possible. And I haven't cycled thousands of PEDs in a night, so you could say it's easy for me to say that. And it sucks for most, but that is the reality.

No clearly not. However if the same person buys three different lottery tickets, and won the three lotteries.. yes, of course.

I am sure "turnover" is one of the variables behind the best loots, but i am sure too, that a single ramdomize function is not complementing it. A single randomize function always is more democratic. But here, not all people pays for his lottery ticket (and when it pays, not necesarily is the same amount). Then, Mindark must have designed an algorithm of "lucky" for the game.... But like other things in this game, I believe this algorithm have bug, and is not perfect. For that reason, we can see each some time, results very differents and polemic.

For last, this is a section from the forum, where we think about loot theories. And like theories are only theories, you have so reason in your ideas, like me in my ideas.

 

[Talania]

I think deposits don't affect globals or hof but do affect your average loot returns. Also how you spend the peds matters. Like if you deposit $500.00 and then use 3k peds to buy clothes then hunt a mob that has a high chance of large uber you probably have a good chance of getting a nice loot.

If you deposit the same amount weekly for a year or two I think once you get to a certain skill point (Was unlocking Coolness for me) that MA puts you on a loot return that matches your deposit history. Another words you have a constant loss so you need to do that next weeks deposit. Also I have found over the last year of testing it that if I have bank loans(Pawns) in the game on my things that I seem to get worse loot return. When I would pay them off the loot return was better. Get more loans and down it went again. I averaged between 3 and 4k peds worth in loans.

I personally think there is different loot levels for amounts cycled. If you only cycle a few hundred ped weekly then you are in a very low bracket of loot and will not global easily no matter how much you hunt. If you cycle a few thousand peds a week then you will global more often and possibly hof. Cycle 10k peds or more a week and you are put in the bracket that gets constant globals and hof. Uberloots I think are just random for anyone except when they have high end items.

Another factor that I have seen is your skills. If you are hunting or mining and have low level skills you are gaining skills faster so you get less loot. I believe MA considers skill, tier, blueprint qr ticks as a form of your loot so if you are getting loads of fast skill ticks that means you will possibly get more no loot mobs or lower return. I have done some chipping in skills and had my damage a few levels above my hit in longblades and was getting terrible loot when using them until my hit reached the same level as my damage. Then suddenly I was getting globals again. I think that you need to have your damage level at or just below your hit in order to get good loot return other then ofcourse the random lottery uber loots.

These are all just my opinions. No way to prove anything. Though I do know a lot of people seem to have much worse loot return then before VU10 after the tier system was introduced. I truly think that tier ticks and skill ticks are calculated by the same loot system. So if you have bad loot always it might be the reason you can't get that next tick on your item you are trying to get to the next tick on.

 

[Talania]

Almost forgot about Auction. I seem to sometimes get more globals when I am selling things on the auction too.

 

[ermik]

deposits have no relation whatsoever to what you get back in loot.

if it was so our bank owners would have multiple ath´s

and if it was so eu would not work.

it cant be , and is not , a relation between deposits and loot.

never have been , and never will be.

A deposit just puts peds on your card , so you can use those peds to interact with the plattform MA provides.

You can choose to cycle the peds throught the lootsystem , getting back loot and skills. Or you can give those peds to other players in terms of paying markup on items , services or other.

or , the most common aproach , a combination of both.

 

[dr3w]

Eve Damsel Online
Rapture of Rebellion
Resource mined: Narcanisum Stone
Value of resources: 37135 PED
Date of entry: 2011-09-26 18:51:40

What means those last three animated faces?

 

[bettlejus]

Well Talania, I got a bigger hof after I have unlocked Serendipity and 2 days ago I have unlocked Coolness, hope I get another one

Also related to the auction selling, I think I also got better return when I sold item in auction...don't have a logical explanation though

 

[dr3w]

Also related to the auction selling, I think I also got better return when I sold item in auction...don't have a logical explanation though

Drugs telling me: by TT-ing something you get PEDs instant. You just change nothing, except loading system, etc.

By selling something from AH you:

1. Paying fees directly to MA (like decay)
2. Most important - you "create" MU, actually, by "decaying" other players, since they pay MU for your stuff. You improving economy.

 

[Soradin]

I don't seem to fit into any of the theories....

If it's cycled PEDs... I'm sure I've cycled more than others (assuming everyone looks at the phrase "cycled" the same way), even with my long breaks from the game, and the largest loot I've ever seen was 253 PED.

Yes, I've unlocked Serendipity earlier this month (I switch weapons around from time to time, took me a while to hit 30 in one of them) my biggest loot since that was 100 PED. Also unlocked Power Catalyst the other day.

I deposit every week since I came back this time (and cycle everything I deposit until it's gone), with larger deposits to bolster my gear when necessary (like when we bought a couple of unlimited CB5's). In previous stints in Entropia, I've usually deposited at least $500 or $1,000.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, trust me. But this is what I've seen, and what I can relate to myself specifically regarding the big globals and HOFs for comparison.

• Decay theory - Trust me I've had plenty of decay over the years.
• Happens after unlock - Not for me... biggest loot since unlocking Serendipity 100 PED.
• Hunt bigger mobs - Don't buy that one.. we've seen huge hits on smaller mobs. But we have hunted larger mobs (we've hunted everything in our possible range that I can think of at one time or another).
• Selling items in auction - Yep, currently I have something like 1k PED worth of loot up there.
• Economy - Sometimes I'm extremely economical (Unlimited CB5 with no armor). Other times.. not so much (Manis (L) or Marber-Bravo with plated Ghost or Vigi).

I dunno... All the theories make sense, but it seems like maybe there's some mystery trigger on my avatar that I just haven't tripped yet, lol. I did hit my first crafting global last night... I crafted 1 Level 2 Mining Amp (L) worth 81 PED (no extra loot, just a high TT limited craft). So now I've globalled in everything. That was kinda fun even though it was a small amount with no extra "loot".

 

[Talania]

Global and HOF can be at times just the system repaying losses from using larger weapons too. I seem to get them from using Apis and Beast amp or similar Limited amp. Also Emik T-10 does same.

So if you really want a HOF you can force the system to give you one but you might lose double the HOF to get it.

 

[bettlejus]

Talania, you seems to be my twin brother in avatar

I also user Apis with beast and from time to time, when peds are lower I use T10

Regarding the sale at TT of item, I think you just balance the system more quickly, if you have 1K peds lost, but 800 are in auction pending to be bought, the system sees you with -1K peds, but when you sell to TT you are only -200 peds so the bad cycle begins

It all depends on every avatar return cycle which is related, I think, to the sum spent

 

[ermik]

Regarding the sale at TT of item, I think you just balance the system more quickly, if you have 1K peds lost, but 800 are in auction pending to be bought, the system sees you with -1K peds, but when you sell to TT you are only -200 peds so the bad cycle begins

care to explain a little more in detail how you thought when you came to this conclusion

im curious

 

[bettlejus]

Well, that is pretty well explained, I think

But let's try another one:

The overall return cycle is like a wave graph, you start from 0 point and later on maybe you reach the 0 point again

Imagine the graph line as a wave, that wave has fluctuations wich are the returns for smaller cycles of peds, let's say overall you are on minus with 10K peds, this is the big line, the one that maybe will get to 0 sometime, but in that progress of -10k peds you have fluctuations like -2000, -1800, -2300, -1900 In your quoted phrase thse small fluctuations are the ones I referred to

It's like a mining/hunting log: big line from graph is the Total P/L and the small curves in the main line are the specific run P/L

P/L - Profit/Loss

If this isn't clear I don;t know how to put it

 

[dr3w]

Well, that is pretty well explained, I think

No, he asked you absolutely right. How you come to that mess with balance, AH-pending-sales, returns, etc?

 

[ermik]

No, he asked you absolutely right. How you come to that mess with balance, AH-pending-sales, returns, etc?

yes , that was what i was trying to wrap my head around , without any success i must add, thus my confusion.

if you spend 1k ped tt on hunting , and get back 800 ped tt , system see a 200 ped tt loss , no matter if you tt that 800 ped , or put it in au , or give it to a random avatar. ( in general without getting into details on what the system notes as spent of those 200 ped )

 

[DavinFelth]

this month

Well just to add to this. I have just deposited $450 this month. My biggest loot has been like 176. I'm hunting my butt off and had a few days where i got some good streaks. Overall this has been the worst month ever in compared to how much I have deposited. I got a big tower and that loot lasted me for months. This is my first month back deposting and I dropped more than I usually do. Now my loot sucks in my opinion.
I hope I'm just due for a big one and it's coming soon, but I know hope gets crushed and turned into depression sometimes in my case. I spend too much in my opinion.

 

[bettlejus]

just my opinion.....the system knows that you have looted 800 of item, but if you do not sell them (aka transform into peds) the system rewards you better

I think this is because you cannot use those item in generaly to hunt, cannot user oils to hunt and so on

Anyway, have fun spending a lot of money and enjoy that ATH when it arives