Question: Is it ok to Kill Steal in PVP areas vs Kill Stealing in NON PVP areas?

Is it ok to Kill Steal in PVP areas vs Kill Stealing in NON PVP areas?

  • It is ok to Kill Steal in PVP

    Votes: 74 35.9%
  • It is not ok to Kill Steal in PVP

    Votes: 132 64.1%

  • Total voters
    206
LOL.
Not the point being debated.
"PvP is PvP" I keep hearing. Well a dog's a dog but they don't all look the same. If you're gonna defend your right to be arseholes, at least get a better argument than PvP is PvP.

It's not often I disagree with you, Hurrikane, but shouldn't someone expect to die in a PvP area? Whether engaged in combat with a mob or not? You enter a PvP area knowing full well the things that can happen to you there. If you don't like it, you don't have to go in the area to begin with. It IS PvP. You have to know that not everyone is going to follow some "unwritten code of conduct." Not everyone has the same morals, you know.
 
It's not often I disagree with you, Hurrikane, but shouldn't someone expect to die in a PvP area? Whether engaged in combat with a mob or not? You enter a PvP area knowing full well the things that can happen to you there. If you don't like it, you don't have to go in the area to begin with. It IS PvP. You have to know that not everyone is going to follow some "unwritten code of conduct." Not everyone has the same morals, you know.

Not debating whether everyone has the same morals. Just saying, can't understand why kill-stealers do it, and doubly can't understand why you shouldn't complain about it. It's reportable. It's against the EULA, PvP or not.
I do expect to die in PvP, and yes, whether with a mob or not. I just reserve my right to feel worse about the guy who lost me the chance of looting, for no reason other than to massage his ego. I'm sorry if that's not an asshole to you. The fact that not everyone has the same morals is what's under debate here, but it seems those with none over-rule those with any.

Hurrikane
 
Fair enough. I do agree that it takes a bit of a jackass to KS someone, but KS'ing to me is something different, too. You talk about it as harassment. I'm not saying that it isn't, but if you kill someone in PvP and then take their mob, chances are you aren't going to see that person again unless at the revive. You'd have to find them again, let them engage a mob again, then KS them again in order to make it the systemic harassment that MA requires for avatars to be locked. If a person happens to die once and lose that one mob, I really don't see that as harassment.


edit: I should note that MA doesn't see it as harassment either.
 
Hurrikane, I haven't had the opportunity to discuss anything with you in the forums, but through reading your posts and creative fiction stories, you seem like a well-spoken intelligent individual. :D

That said... let's discuss what it means to be a PK'er, and how it relates to the issue of "kill-stealing".

"PvP is PvP" I keep hearing. Well a dog's a dog but they don't all look the same. If you're gonna defend your right to be arseholes, at least get a better argument than PvP is PvP.

What I mean by arsehole is this: Someone who wants to stop someone else having the chance to loot something he's just ploughed several peds of ammo into. This is harassment, it is something you can report, and people who harass get locked. I do expect to be shot in PvP areas, after all, pvp is pvp whatever the f@ck that means.

If you EXPECT to get shot in a PvP area, then how can you possibly even conceive of being killed as harassment? Doesn't matter if you are killing a mob or not, you were killed by another player in an area designed for players to kill other players. :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE

When you take away someone's chance of looting a mob, and it's below 50% health so you can't loot it yourself, doesn't that surely make you a person who should expect people to dislike his actions? Doesn't that make you someone with no respect for your fellow gamers? And doesn't it make any complaint about your actions valid?

Question #1 - Yes. Getting killed isn't on the top of most people's "fun" list, so I imagine most folks dislike the actions of people that make them take dirt-naps. ;)

Question #2 - No. I'm sure PK'ers have alot of respect for people who are brave enough to hunt in PvP zones. It surely does not mean they have to allow you to finish your kill.

Question #3 - No. How can you validate complaints about getting killed in an area designed for killing people? :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE

You are taking PED from people, interfering with their enjoyment of the game and using game mechanics to go the extra mile to be nastier. If that's what floats your boat, fine, bet you were a biter in nursery school; just expect flak for doing it and accept it. Apologise even.

Shoot me while hunting and I'll narrow my eyes and get around it; but keep doing it, support cases follow.

Hmmm... Let's look at the EULA:

THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE account RULES OF CONDUCT INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, THE FOLLOWING REGULATIONS:

c. You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.


If you are hunting get killed often in a PvP area, can't you hunt and enjoy yourself in a NON-PvP area just as easily? Of course you can. :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE






Also, for what it's worth... I've never PK'ed anyone in Entropia. :D
 
Hurrikane, I haven't had the opportunity to discuss anything with you in the forums, but through reading your posts and creative fiction stories, you seem like a well-spoken intelligent individual. :D

That said... let's discuss what it means to be a PK'er, and how it relates to the issue of "kill-stealing".



If you EXPECT to get shot in a PvP area, then how can you possibly even conceive of being killed as harassment? Doesn't matter if you are killing a mob or not, you were killed by another player in an area designed for players to kill other players. :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE



Question #1 - Yes. Getting killed isn't on the top of most people's "fun" list, so I imagine most folks dislike the actions of people that make them take dirt-naps. ;)

Question #2 - No. I'm sure PK'ers have alot of respect for people who are brave enough to hunt in PvP zones. It surely does not mean they have to allow you to finish your kill.

Question #3 - No. How can you validate complaints about getting killed in an area designed for killing people? :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE



Hmmm... Let's look at the EULA:

THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE account RULES OF CONDUCT INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, THE FOLLOWING REGULATIONS:

c. You cannot interfere with any other Participants ability to use and enjoy the Entropia Universe.


If you are hunting get killed often in a PvP area, can't you hunt and enjoy yourself in a NON-PvP area just as easily? Of course you can. :scratch2:

DON"T GO THERE






Also, for what it's worth... I've never PK'ed anyone in Entropia. :D

I don't go to PvP much:) Too many kill-stealers:)

Hurrikane
 
In terms of Killstealing MA statemnt has been, the one who does the most dm gets the loot. Harras, or griefe ppl within the rules of the game mechanics, then its pvp in its purest form depening weather or not you operation on NBSI or NRDS terms of pvp.
 
Yes its OK.

If I see you in pvp4 shooting a mob it is perfectly acceptable to:

1. type in allchat "Hi there - I am miner"
2. shoot you in the back
3. kill your mob and loot it.
4. dance on your corpse
5. type some taunts into allchat
6. tp out so I can taunt you some more at revive
7. join your soc under a second avatar
8. befriend you
9. borrow something
10. not give it back
11. say "muahhahahha I am the one that k'sd and pk'd you back on X date in pvp4"
12. quit your soc
13. come on EF and proclaim that you are a scammer
14. befriend you on EF through a second account
15. find out where you live
16. peer through your windows at night
17. befriend your wife ;)
18. get you fired from your job
19. come on EF and bitch about how you are harrassing ME!

:wtg::wtg:
 
What are you arguing...for???

Not really, your basing your logic on recent history on examples of people who have grown up in a civilized society. Instead look at entire human history form the time when we are in trees. Look at the base impulses of human nature.....

Part of doing that is learning to manage our base impulses, energies and desires. ...
We CAN have our cake and eat it too, there is no such thing as impossible,

If you believe you can, or can not you're right, There is plenty of resources in the universe to go around.
We as humans have to just realise this :)

What a wonderful world you live and believe in...:(
I don’t live in that one even...if I recognise it as a small part of the human experience…:cool:
I strongly disagree with almost all of the statement you made and believe that science and 3.5 million years of human evolution and social development... back that up....

The base impulses of human nature are social and co-operative effort Violence within groups is rare...and even violence between groups is rare and always has been not because of laws... but because it is counter productive to human growth, survival and societal development...wars and inter-group violence are always episodic and even there we we go to great effort to avoid and contain them to restore the norm of living in peace...

We have always lived in groups and have since the dawn of civilisation lived in increasingly larger societies...peace is the norm...even if history is written in terms of violent dramatic events and aberrations of the human norm...that sometimes shift the course civilisation...peace is the norm...even the creation of armies is often meant more as a deterrent to war...to preserve the norm of peace…I would even argue that stealing...evolved to be recognised as wrong...simply because it leads to bad feelings... which in turn leads to violence…which disturbs the public norm of peace

One has to wonder and ask the question...why are some so upset and need to argue so passionately for killing and stealing...for example here is a negative rep i received today... "we kill beasts as part of our game, the whole thing is based around killing. why are you here? there are no happy bunnys, everyoine comes here to kill shit. just do us all a favor and leave"
How silly and sad is that...

This person falsley has come to it's their game...and that everyone is here for the same reasons they are...which is to kill shit…meaning people mobs etc...and no one should question it...love it or leave it...but many people don't come here to kill shit...some come to mine and make shit…and many citizens pf FPC...as expressed in the posts here and on other threads.. feel oppressed by these individuals...:(

When you read the reasons why people like FPC…the number one reason is for friends and the social aspects…and it's our game...and and social and cooperative peaceful effort that is the real basis for FPC...not fostering anti-social behaviors and attitudes...:cool:

To allow certain violent people/avs to hold court in areas dedicated to killing other peaceful people or avas...stealing from them… when you think of it…seems quite inhuman and uncivilised...for colony of such and advanced society. Better to turn their weapons into plowshares…and force them to make an honest living… :cool:
 
Brooklyn, if you're gonna go off against kill-stealers, that's one thing.

But to say all violence in this game and others is wrong somehow is deluded.

I'm sure in your head Calypso would be a lovely happy place full of nice people, with no mobs killed and no blood split. There would also be about 8 people here. You, and some born-again christians.

We already have a nun, and she's cool. Stop saying crap like "no violence" to gamers who have enjoyed computer violence as long as they've enjoyed computers. So you don't get it, fair enough, but don't try to make a good game into Second Life, which is what you seem intent on doing.

All I was doing was asking for a little respect on the battlefield, not the cessation of hostilities. Without killing and hunting what do I do here? Gardening? LOL

Hurrikane
 
Along the same lines .. but sorta :offtopic:

I can't tell you how many times I do wish it was PvP wherever I was hunting.
When some green dot miner decides to mob train me, hunter tried to KS, or they stood next to me killing the dots I had planned to...

I admit it happens a lot for me ... :D

ps - here ya go, brooklyn.
It's happy Teletubby land - no pvp!

I do what I can.
 
Meh

To allow certain violent people/avs to hold court in areas dedicated to killing other peaceful people or avas...stealing from them… when you think of it…seems quite inhuman and uncivilised...for colony of such and advanced society. Better to turn their weapons into plowshares…and force them to make an honest living… :cool:

:handgun:Stop taking the piss out of everyone on here FFS :rocket:
Now where did I put my Omegaton Forum Nuke Mine ?
 
Brooklyn, if you're gonna go off against kill-stealers, that's one thing.

But to say all violence in this game and others is wrong somehow is deluded.

I'm sure in your head Calypso would be a lovely happy place full of nice people, with no mobs killed and no blood split. There would also be about 8 people here. You, and some born-again christians.

We already have a nun, and she's cool. Stop saying crap like "no violence" to gamers who have enjoyed computer violence as long as they've enjoyed computers. So you don't get it, fair enough, but don't try to make a good game into Second Life, which is what you seem intent on doing.

All I was doing was asking for a little respect on the battlefield, not the cessation of hostilities. Without killing and hunting what do I do here? Gardening? LOL

Hurrikane


:cool::cool::cool:
...Don't get me wrong
I love taking down an angry chicken
in my underwear as much as the next person...
:cool::cool::cool:

but I'm only talking about pvp violence...person killing...and kill/stealing...which are moral issues and presented here as such...

It's a tough case to argue in a world hooked on it...and I really don't get the necessity of it...but...I've already offered a compromise solution of making the whole planet open to people who want to turn off their PVP protection and go at it...might even make the the game better and more entertaining as two traders draw down on each other in the square at PA for the best spot...:cool:

I wonder why you and others are trying to make people feel that they should feel good about these uncalled for crimminal experiences...which they feel is a negative to their game playing enjoyment...If you want to play cowboys and indians fine...if it's your choice...my solution just makes it an option in the game play...not a fixture of environment...or bushwacking a profession...

Do I beleive we can do without...yes...but I'm not naive enough believe that we do without it...much less go cold turkey...

I feel Marco will use it to win...this weeks

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/fan-fiction/146818-eat-my-shorts.html

:beerchug::beerchug:
“I can’t believe…they believe”
:beerchug::beerchug:

meeting​
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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...Don't get me wrong I love taking down an angry chicken in my underwear as much as the next person...

but I'm only talking about pvp violence...person killing...and kill/stealing...which are moral issues and presented here as such...

It's a tough case to argue in a world hooked on it...and I really don't get the necessity of it...but...I've already offered a compromise solution of making the whole planet open to people who want to turn off their PVP protection and go at it...might even make the the game better and more entertaining as two traders draw down on each other in the square at PA for the best spot...:cool:

I wonder why you and others are trying to make people feel that they should feel good about these uncalled for crimminal experiences...which they feel is a negative to their game playing enjoyment...If you want to play cowboys and indians fine...if it's your choice...my solution just makes it an option in the game play...not a fixture of environment...or bushwacking a profession...

Do I beleive we can do without...yes...but I'm not naive enough believe that we do without it...much less go cold turkey...

I feel Marco will use it to win...this weeks

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/fan-fiction/146818-eat-my-shorts.html

:beerchug::beerchug: “I can’t believe…they believe” :beerchug::beerchug:

meeting​

Well heres the thing, you agree to unconsensual pvp by logging in.
You may consider it imoral, and may not enjoy it at all. That however doesent change the fact there those that enjoy that kind of gameplay, and consider it all fun and games, as its all actions that within the rules laid down by MA.

I for one dont feel its my job to try and goult trip them from enjoying the game they want, as their actions are within the game mechanics.

To bad we cant war dec ppl in EU the same way we can in EvE, now that would have taken pvp to a whole new lvl in EU.

Remeber its all pixels, nothing is real, not even the peds we all seam to want ;)

Edit: I consider every area to a pvp area. (pvp is more than just shoting the other guys avatar)
 
Well heres the thing, you agree to unconsensual pvp by logging in.
You may consider it imoral, and may not enjoy it at all. That however doesent change the fact there those that enjoy that kind of gameplay, and consider it all fun and games, as its all actions that within the rules laid down by MA.

Remeber its all pixels, nothing is real, not even the peds we all seam to want ;)

You can always hide behind that argument if you want...but in the end it's you choice of action to kill/steal from other players...it's not just pixels... people behind the pixels are telling you it bothers them to have their game interupted or their kills stolen...by other players who seem to think that this is only their sandbox...and the only way they can enjoy themselves is at other peoples expense...

If your feeling guilty or guilt tripped because someone has pointed out the negative issues K/S ...that's your problem...Lethum I'm sure doesn't feel guilty much guilt tripped he the op of this and the other thread about the morals of PVP...
 
I may be wrong but I thought the defintion of steal kill was taking the MOB away from a hunter that was already killing it. That would be "stupid" for you to do in the PVP areas where you can loot the avatar. Just wait until the hunter has killed it, then kill him and get the loot. That is how PVP works right? I just stay out of PVP areas and I do not have to worry about it. And though I do not like it when someone comes along and steal kills my mob MA says it is part of the game and does nothing to stop it (as in the robot wars). If MA did not want it they could easily make it so that whoever gets the first shot in gets the mob, but that is not how it is set up.
 
I agree with this.. Perfectly acceptable in lootable pvp for me. Also if someone does it to you first in any pvp like the rig for example, i would have no problem with then doing it back several times over.

In general though i think it is kinda lame to shoot someone in the back before they finish a mob.

Then again i would consider myself more lawful evil ;D You are Chaotic so in the role playing sense i think it is perfectly acceptable to do whatever the hell you want in a pvp zone as long as you are not harassing/griefing someone continually.

I agree with this except for the last part. In lootable pvp, kill or be killed. If you don't kill on site you risk losing money (at least the toxic shot) yourself. However, killing someone in a non-lootable pvp area who is on a mob is just lame imo. You don't prove anything except that you can be annoying. There are exceptions, such as if you drag mobs into the rig and someone starts shooting the mobs, this does not give them instant immunity to being pk'd. Also if this person has done something bad to you in the past then the rule is off and revenge is on. ;)

As for the last part, if you want to "role play", fine, it's not against the game rules to pk someone in the back while they are killing a mob, it's just lame and most people will think you are an asshole. Some entire societies even have a reputation for doing this...
 
Food for thought

All I was doing was asking for a little respect on the battlefield, not the cessation of hostilities.
Hurrikane

I don't want to say this is hippie bull s%$&, because i believe your words have merrit.

Though you need to realize wether the person kill steals your mob, then kills you, or waits like you want, then kills you after he respected your wishes to
not be killed till the mob was dead, is still kill stealing.

The reason being, any loot that you get that is stackable from that mob is now his anyway after killing you.

So wether he waits or not, its kill stealing in some form.

Your ammo spent on the mob was still wasted.

Same for mining, stole all the ore you got.

So anyone killing a miner is a kill stealer too.


At least you have some chance to kill your kill stealer in the PVP area.

Kill stealing outside PVP i do think is unethical.


Arf
 
I have solution to Kill Stealing outside of pvp4...
built into the system is the first one to tag it...
keeps it...
and it disapears with him into the afterlife...
wiht one headig to revive and the other spawn
:eek::laugh::eek::laugh::eek:

of course this is automatically turned off for team hunting...
 
I have solution to Kill Stealing outside of pvp4...
built into the system is the first one to tag it...
keeps it...
and it disapears with him into the afterlife...
wiht one headig to revive and the other spawn
:eek::laugh::eek::laugh::eek:

of course this is automatically turned off for team hunting...


so now they can kill steal a whole map area of mobs from yah.....

don't think too hard about your next idea. :handjob:

Arf
 
so now they can kill steal a whole map area of mobs from yah.....

don't think too hard about your next idea. :handjob:

Arf


Nice to see the idea exciteds you...

but you right didn't think of that....
but that could also be worked out in once you've tagged it
you can't tag another until it's dead...
see not so hard;)
 
Nice to see the idea exciteds you...

but you right didn't think of that....
but that could also be worked out in once you've tagged it
you can't tag another until it's dead...
see not so hard;)

So... I "tag" a difficult mob, like, say... a spider at OmegaWest, and

WHAM!!!

It one-shots me. :rolleyes:

I can't kill any other mobs until I kill it by myself? :scratch2:

To borrow a phrase:
don't think too hard about your next idea. :handjob:
 
So... I "tag" a difficult mob, like, say... a spider at OmegaWest, and

WHAM!!!

It one-shots me. :rolleyes:

I can't kill any other mobs until I kill it by myself? :scratch2:

To borrow a phrase:

Or it kills you...do I have to hand feed you everything...

You mean you don't have phase of your own...poor boy:(
 
Or it kills you...do I have to hand feed you everything...

Yes, please hand-feed me everything. :yay:

Because, I certainly don't want to assume I understand all your ideas. ;)

So... tag a mob, it's "your's" until you kill it or it kills you...
Can't attack anything else once you attack one mob...

Sounds like a great idea for your own game! :cool:

Coming soon:

Brooklyn Universe
 
Yes, please hand-feed me everything. :yay:

Because, I certainly don't want to assume I understand all your ideas. ;)

So... tag a mob, it's "your's" until you kill it or it kills you...
Can't attack anything else once you attack one mob...

Sounds like a great idea for your own game! :cool:

Coming soon:

Brooklyn Universe


yeah and the main avatar class in that game will be a Troll, ;)
 
so if the system supports scam and steal, that is ok too?

KS is just as much stealing other persons property as scamming or similar. MA is simply too lazy to fix that possibility, just as scamming or any other low moral level activity. if it isn't high enough priority (read : does not cost money MA) it will probably never get fixed.

on the other hand I've sometimes found pvp a rather usable place to show the KS'ers middle finger - kill them and take over their mob and another mob until they understand the sweet taste of their own actions. karma can sometimes ba a wonderful thing =)


J.
 
KS is just as much stealing other persons property as scamming or similar.

I have to be honest here.. I have never had an issue with anyone intentionally KS'ing a mob.

Maybe you folks hunt in overpopulated areas, or have lots of enemies.
 
Is it just me, or do others feel as though we have a Jack Thompson in the forum?

Brooklyn said:
Sorry...It definitely not part of human nature to kill people...it takes an awful lot of encouragement, availible physical capacity and mental coercion to get healthy people to do it...and even then...they have to out of their minds at the moment

Just because I find it amusing to blow an unsuspecting players head off with a shotgun in a game doesn't mean I'd do it IRL. The fact is in a game, no one is being harmed physically (unless you buy one of those FPS Gaming Vests :laugh: ). Basically what happens if you kill someone:
Ammo and decay is subtracted from your account.
The shots that hit deduct a numerical value from the opponent.
When their HP <=0 they are no longer considered 'alive'.
The game respawns the avatar.
Essentially all you are doing is initiating a series of mathematical operations, that are part of the game each player agreed to. You can hardly buy a FPS game, and then go "Why is that person killing me? Oh noes!" when you play online. You bought it / entered the zone and were fully aware of what it entailed. You're essentially agreeing to the conditions specified.

No one is being harmed. All players know what the game is about. Therefore you don't need to have "an awful lot of encouragement, availible physical capacity and mental coercion " to kill in a game. If you don't wish to partake in such an activity - don't do it. No one is forcing you to. I pretty much expect to die when in PvP and make no big deal of it because I wanted to be there (although sometimes people make some rather cheapass backstabby kills in the ring :p)

Thinking every green dot is friendly and nice is a little naive. I personally give every green dot the benefit of doubt, up until a point - if they keep heading closer, act suspicious or I'm in PvP3/4, then I won't hesitate to kill. Rather not be the one inconvenienced if I can help it ;)

PvP is intentionally part of the game, even having warnings to tell you. Fine. KSing on the other hand is a long standing problem MA have refused to fix, and often people don't have the choice. Its a difficult problem to solve, but with little return for MA. What do they care if one person or two kill a mob? They still get decay anyway.

If someones killing a mob, I wouldn't shoot unless they decided to attack first. And even if I'd killed them, the mob would be left unless it aggroed. KSing seems like a bit of a malevolent thing to do. The point is in the short term you gain a slightly cheaper kill, but over time it'll damage your reputation within EU. Something thats an important aspect in a game such as this. If someone KS's me I just think 'ass' and them move off elsewhere rather than make a big deal of it. Or kill them if it's PvP, which as Lugzan pointed out is a "rather usable place to show the KS'ers middle finger " :laugh:

In most games you're protected being 'behind a screen' - essentially being anonymous. When you play, you're pretty much revealing your true character (unless RPing ofc), since you're capable of getting away with a lot more than you would IRL or have minimal consequences. If you decide to be a prick and KS mobs because 'you can', then fair enough... go right ahead. Just have to remember in an MMO you're essentially building up a second life, and everything you do does have an effect whether you realise it or not.

Never know. That guy you just KSd may very well be the one person who could have helped you further down the road. ;)

(I had a point somewhere in all that... :scratch2: )
 
TY

Thank you for your support on this post and sharing your views. It has modavated me to write a paper about Ego vs Alter Ego feel free to read and share your views on Ego vs Alter Ego
 
don't feed this donkey troll. :scratch2:
 
I wouldn't think its right, although it is their fault for hunting in pvp. Maybe just don't kill steal? Wait for them to finish their mob off and then attack them.
 
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