Question: Is this right or wrong? (Containing sensitive issues.)

goodgrief999

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Heck, I know these things are taboo, but this seems like an opportunity for a very interesting debate to me.

ONE WARNING - I will apply the best of my much admired linguistic skills to put down any rude, inconsiderate or ill thought out flames.

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My Support Cases
History for support case 61:

2014-01-13 22:49 You wrote:

Hello,
I have to ask, even although although I believe my request does not fit the way Entropia Universe works, except for "IIsland Girl", whose continued contribution is funded for by Mr. Jacobs.
I have no source of funding to direct after I pass away, but I would find it a wonderful source of peace and, the ever elusve dignity; if there was a means by which I could pay an agreed advance or
something and not have my (hypothetical) art gallery deleted. When I expire, there will be no maintenance of my avatar. Sadly, unlike Scandinavia, but perhaps similar to parts of Mexico,
I am not living in a society which enjoys civilian peace.
The MA support department have been incredibly gracious and kind, helping me with every single request I have made, and I am very very grateful. Irrespective of the answer to this request,
I hope and pray that you always receive the same kindness, if you need it. Peace.


2014-01-14 16:05 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi G


Thank you for your inquiry. I have forwarded your case to the responsible team for further consideration.

Please note that if you wish to transfer your limited access rights to the Entropia Universe Account to your heirs after your death, subject to the terms of the EULA and ToU, you should make sure such rights will be part of your estate inventory.

The heirs can then decide whether they want to continue using the Account or if they wish to cancel it. In both cases a verified copy of the estate inventory must be sent to us along with a verified copy of an identification document of the person representing the estate. All the submitted documents should be accompanied by an English translation attested by a notary public. Pursuant to Terms of Use 3.1§, the Account information, i.e. user name and contact information, will then be changed accordingly giving the representative of the estate full access to use the Entropia Universe Account and the virtual items connected to it. Note that Terms of Use 2.1§ still apply prohibiting the use of multiple accounts.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

2014-01-15 07:16 You wrote:

Sorry, this "canned answer" is a mistake. I have no heirs. I have nobody to direct my estate, I have very few abilities and they are fading fast.
There is no way I can do all that paperwork or administrative stuff, I'm struggling to avoid accidentally starving to death.
I am sorry about this, and in slang, 'I''m not intending to be a drama queen' but this is true.
Will you negotiate a payment in exchange for not deleting my account please, i.e $x for X years?
Thanks
2014-01-21 16:24 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi G,

Thank you for the update. According to our logs, the only current Estate you own is Alpha . Is this the one you are referring to? Can you also let us know that period of time you have in mind to keep it up?

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support
2014-01-24 10:30 You wrote:

No, I am talking about my avatar, my account. And the estate being, my estate after I expire.
So, if I was to - perhaps create a virtual art gallery, would you accept a payment in advance for not deleting my account, for say 5 years?
I was not aware that I had Alpha
2014-01-24 17:57 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi G,

Thank you for the update. After evaluating your request, I regret to inform you that Entropia Universe does not offer this kind of service. We can not accept any responsibility for transactions that have not occurred yet, this because there is no guarantee in such transactions.

However, please keep in mind that your account can remain inactive for a maximum period of 750 days. You can read more about our account inactivity policy in the Entropia Universe Account Terms of Use (ToU) §5.

Please do not hesitate to contact us again if there is anything else we can assist you with.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support
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I think I know how to achieve what I am asking for (if they haven't given me 'ALPHA' LOL) but it's an interesting subject to me, for obvious reasons sorry, to be morbid.
 

mastermesh

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However, please keep in mind that your account can remain inactive for a maximum period of 750 days. You can read more about our account inactivity policy in the Entropia Universe Account Terms of Use (ToU) §5.

750/365 = 2.054794520547945 years... so that gets you part of the way there. Just be sure to log in on the day you die before you die and your art gallery is safe for 2 years.

Putting your name/password/goldcard in the will irl might let your heir log in after you are gone. Just give directions in the will to have them log in every so many days or whatever.
 

goodgrief999

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750/365 = 2.054794520547945 years... so that gets you part of the way there. Just be sure to log in on the day you die before you die and your art gallery is safe for 2 years.

Putting your name/password/goldcard in the will irl might let your heir log in after you are gone. Just give directions in the will to have them log in every so many days or whatever.

Thanks, the funny part is, I would be able to track down a life insurance policy, and make payments to lead to a payout of say, $200k.
BUT I do not have the time, motivation or ability to construct a will, other than a note, which gives access to my account. I have no heirs with whom I am not estranged.
 

jaydub

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Im sorry...

...but can we trim this down to a basic question? Can i summate your desire to be..."you want MA with some base or foundation investment to fund you account indefinitely so that it doesnt go away after the 750 day delele period?"

Brick
 

Magyar_Republic

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I dont think the MA rep understood you.

In fact, your language was a bit evasive.

You should have simply asked MA the following:

I dont have anyone to give my account to when I die. However I would like to keep my properties up as a memorial to me for 5 years. How do I do this?

It was obvious the rep was confused by the language you were choosing to use. It was too complicated for them. English is probably not their first language and they are failing to grasp the nuances of it that you are using.

Regards,

-MR
 

Magyar_Republic

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I dont think the MA rep understood you.

In fact, your language was a bit evasive.

You should have simply asked MA the following:

I dont have anyone to give my account to when I die. However I would like to keep my properties up as a memorial to me for 5 years. How do I do this?

It was obvious the rep was confused by the language you were choosing to use. It was too complicated for them. English is probably not their first language and they are failing to grasp the nuances of it that you are using.

Regards,

-MR


Of course the obvious answer to this is: Find a trustee. Contractually obligate them to maintain your account in its current status for 5 years, after which time they are free to do what they want.

Cut MA out of the picture. It does not need to be a family member just somebody you would trust with this task.
 

Farmer Smurf

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you could probably design, or get written for you. a simple computer program that would log into your character then log out. get this program to run from a server somewhere, make them a payment to keep your "website" up and running for 50 years....way way cheaper and easier than trying to get a special exception from MA.

for added enjoyment have your character say some words from beyond the grave.:smoke:
 

the-unknown

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You cannot automate login for 50 years.

Login screen will probably change every 5-10 years. And there may be other "requirements" like GCs.

Retinal scanners provided maybe? lol
 

Nor Alien

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You may also find someone here to help you. All they would have to do is log into your account for what ever time you wish. This could possibly extend your account for the length of EU!! :beerchug:

I think you would even find some people would do it for free!

I do hope your going to be around for along time though. That would be the best option. Here's to your long life! :beerchug:
 
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Cly

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Nor has a reasonable idea

Assuming there were no requirement to play, trade, or otherwise advance your account's position, I for one would be quite willing to give you an address to post a Gold Card to (and if no Gold Card exists, just email me your user name and password at ClytemnestraDarksteel@gmail.com) and I can happily set calendar reminders to log you in once a quarter or something, indefinitely until I myself have to bequeath my login elsewhere.

While trying to get a clearer answer on this position out of MA is a nice idea, they're usually quite slow to take advantage of decent opportunities to make small amounts of money off service transactions, so I suspect you'd be wasting your (currently available) time there - although it's something that may become available in future as they come to understand the actually requested feature.

So - look to the community perhaps - we understand what you're asking for and can help.

You just need to find someone who will be around a fair while.
 

forgo

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Anyone helping him would be violating the terms of the one account per person rule, and sole use, and risking both. Surprising how many people are so quick to violate that term, as if its done rampantly and an accepted practice for friends. (sarcasm directed at MA)

It would be best if he found someone that wasn't already playing to do it for him.


Sounds to me like they have no interest in immortalizing any of his content, which is rather sad considering a (player/partner/employee?) girlfriend was immortalized with a shrine, island and teleporter.

Ultimately it is their call, One other method would be to ask if your art could be placed permanently somewhere within the universe, if not the caly team other teams may be interested in doing so.
 

eddiehell

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this is very interesting to me, and my wife and I have discussed this exact scenario to an extent because we have no children or heirs.....

Why doesn't MA implement a virtual "Last Will and Testament??" This would equal MORE income for them, and a very simple idea to boot: Just put a "deed" type item in the Trade Terminal that you can purchase (like 5 peds or so) and actually ASSIGN a benefactor that is notified with e-mail or such (in advance ofc). There has to be some way to do this.

Also, what happens when one of us dies? Are we allowed a certain time period to "scrape out" all the skills of the other one's avatar WITHOUT violating the terms?? Am I allowed to use her avatar and abandon my own (or vice-versa)?? this seems to be a verrrry gray area in the realm of virtual properties....
 

Cly

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Anyone helping him would be violating the terms of the one account per person rule, and sole use, and risking both. Surprising how many people are so quick to violate that term, as if its done rampantly and an accepted practice for friends. (sarcasm directed at MA)

I would not, assuming I logged in as him once a quarter, either technically
"own another account" - since neither the physical, email address nor banking details (if any exist) are known to me and I would not even be able to replace his GC once that failed.
So I would still own only one account.

"sole use" would of course be governed by the definition of the word "use" I guess.

And I suspect a court of law would struggle to find any "use" of an account that was logged in for 2 minutes every quarter, conducted no transactions, and logged out.

So, given the number of people you and I both know actually abuse the system and likely have auditable, trackable transaction logs to get them banned but who somehow manage to remain active on the system, I repeat that I for instance would probably be willing to take that risk for a community member who wanted nothing more than to maintain their "activity flag" if MA are specifically unwilling to help him.
 

Cly

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As another Note

this is very interesting to me, and my wife and I have discussed this exact scenario to an extent because we have no children or heirs.....

Why doesn't MA implement a virtual "Last Will and Testament??" This would equal MORE income for them, and a very simple idea to boot: Just put a "deed" type item in the Trade Terminal that you can purchase (like 5 peds or so) and actually ASSIGN a benefactor that is notified with e-mail or such (in advance ofc). There has to be some way to do this.

Also, what happens when one of us dies? Are we allowed a certain time period to "scrape out" all the skills of the other one's avatar WITHOUT violating the terms?? Am I allowed to use her avatar and abandon my own (or vice-versa)?? this seems to be a verrrry gray area in the realm of virtual properties....

I agree with Eddie that this area of interaction is something MindArk should take some steps to make very clear now. Many players here are long-term players, and we're not getting any younger. We take the suggestion of being able to designate our account as transferred on death to another party very seriously, because it's a very real facet of the investment we're all making in Entropia.

But what if I actually HAD a son anyway, but had managed to get him playing EU in his own right with his own Avatar. Sure, I can designate him as my heir / account holder in the event of my death, but just as Eddie asks

"How is such an event handled?"

How does MindArk itself plan to deal with the inheritance of an account when you already own one (it breaks their own ToU already!)
I think it's unreasonable to expect heirs to stump up the cash (with markup) to buy all the ESI's to transfer skills gained for instance. I'd be expecting the abilities to
- "Merge Statistics"

I'd like to know how Deed Revenues work better - I suspect that if I have a CLD for example and I die and am therefore unable to click on the PED Flow Centre to claim the PEDs but my CLDs are then transferred via inventory manipulation to my Successor, that they will lose the PED that was mine to claim. So some sort of function to
- "Collect Deed Revenues"
prior to transferring actual possession / ownership would be expected as well.

I think a detailed, case-exhaustive document should be compiled to cover this sort of eventuality, really.
 

Neil Stockton

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I can understand MA's hesitance to do this. Imagine if they made agreements not to "change anything". They would eventually get to the point where they couldn't develop anymore. So it's not just MA involved, but the Caly dev team, since the apartment and artwork would be located in Calypso and they may choose to renovate those estates later. They don't have time to make individual agreements with regular players.

The only way they'd be able to do this, and I think it would be a good idea ... is to create a separate memorial location maybe a small location in space (Next Island's future maybe lol), so under MA's control, where you would actually be able to buy a memorial building/space whatever, for a time period, subject to an agreement that gives MA the power to make changes as needed.

So your best course of action at this point would be to drum up support for the memorial idea above and in the short term you should give your estate and artwork to another player you can trust to keep this gallery going for you (it would be free for them since there's no apartment rent). That way you don't have to deal with paper work issues with MA and if MA DOES come out with a memorial system sometime in the future, the player you chose (or his heirs) could set it up for you.
 

Acro

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Okay, let's think outside of the box. Instead of asking MA to make your account permanent, even after death. Why not make the art gallery and ask MA to host it in New Oxford or similar. It might cost you, but this way the gallery would become a part of EU, independent of you being around or not.
And it would stay as long as the game would.
 

Tepes

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I think it's unreasonable to expect heirs to stump up the cash (with markup) to buy all the ESI's to transfer skills gained for instance.

Why not, if the heir want to cash out or just transfer skills? Sure is a financial loss (not speaking about RL loss, I'm not sure I would want to "eat up" the skills of my dearest's ava), but is the same loss as one would do it now between 2 avatars. When someone inherits something in RL, they will inherit the problems as well.

You can inherit a castle only to find out the tax on building and associated land is so high, you would be better off to sell it quickly for a miserable price. If a long-lost uncle will leave someone a nice car, for sure the lucky one will have to pony up the fuel and insurance costs from that time on.

I think MA was pretty clear - in case of misfortune, they will transfer the access to the avatar following an inheritance document (will or legal decision). If no claims are made in due time, the avatar would be terminated in 2 years.

For players in the position of inheriting other players, would be tricky but MA can bend their rules quite easily - for example by allowing liquidation of one of the accounts in a certain time (months, if not 1 year). This is covered very vaguely in TOU ch. 14 "subject to terms and limitations, as applicable by MindArk from time to time"

MA cannot be bothered to all kind of dealings which can be subjected to a court battle, if they would act themselves as trustees of that account. Usually even if someone lost the contact with all his relatives, when money are involved the said relatives have the habit to come out from under a rock. If there is no document to explicitly deny them access to inheritance (or even then), for sure they will take their chances to court if the jackpot is high enough.

Is MA willing to take on an "opportunity" to maintain avatars under legal obligation, exposing themselves to eventual lawsuits?
 

Fifth

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Neverdie!

EU is one of the oldest virtual worlds, and it's all about stability.
This is a perfect place to make true mankind's ancient dream to live forever, even if only symbolically.
  • If u poor, u should at least be able to put a small painting into some virtual gallery, it doesn't cost much to maintain hundreds of images over updates and software changes.
  • If u have more money u should be able to buy a small statue on a deserted island or a secluded location on some godforsaken backwater planet that has no other use,
  • If your millionaire you should be able to buy a virtual pyramid and put your avatar inside there in a golden sarcophagus for hundred years or until the end of the world (whichever comes first).

tutanhamon.jpg
 

aia

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Some items are limited by nature, such as houses, shops (in a specific location), land areas etc. These kinds of Resources should primarily belong to Active players. If a player definitely would never log in again and make use of it, it's better for everyone if the resourse, one way or Another, can be transferred to Another, Active, player.

Okay, let's think outside of the box. Instead of asking MA to make your account permanent, even after death. Why not make the art gallery and ask MA to host it in New Oxford or similar. It might cost you, but this way the gallery would become a part of EU, independent of you being around or not.
And it would stay as long as the game would.

A solution like this would be better.

The possibility to create a memorial Place (maybe as an instantiated room) for someone, with replicas of items. Once an avatar is terminated (after the 700 something Days), the shadow items will remain as display items but the real items will be recycled.

Another solution could be, when an avatar is terminated, there will be a notice in a "Fallen Heroes", showing the scanned attributes, a Picture of avatar with avatar at Point of last login, if set to public achievements and professional values etc, Creation date and termination date.
If an old player returns after the avatar is terminated, uh, well one thing could be an option to create a new avatar name, or reclaiming the old name (but with zero skills) and the old "fallen hero" would be set to Anonymous+a unique number. (If account was terminated because it was locked, the old owner needs permission from MA to create new avatar and optionally reclaim old avatar name.) And to reclaim old avatar name the owner has to be verified in a normal way (easiest through the old password or sending new password through email for instance).

The Fallen Heroes could be a new section related to Player Registered, and also accessed through some object in Memorial Island.
 

Acro

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Aia, while I like the concept of a hall of fallen heroes; I suggest this be reserved for players that left us for good (aka died IRL).
And with our playerbase growing older and older, there will come more and more need for this sadly :(
 

Farmer Smurf

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EU is one of the oldest virtual worlds, and it's all about stability.
This is a perfect place to make true mankind's ancient dream to live forever, even if only symbolically.
  • If u poor, u should at least be able to put a small painting into some virtual gallery, it doesn't cost much to maintain hundreds of images over updates and software changes.
  • If u have more money u should be able to buy a small statue on a deserted island or a secluded location on some godforsaken backwater planet that has no other use,
  • If your millionaire you should be able to buy a virtual pyramid and put your avatar inside there in a golden sarcophagus for hundred years or until the end of the world (whichever comes first).

this would be epic
 

goodgrief999

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Of course the obvious answer to this is: Find a trustee. Contractually obligate them to maintain your account in its current status for 5 years, after which time they are free to do what they want.

Cut MA out of the picture. It does not need to be a family member just somebody you would trust with this task.

"I'm literally struggling to avoid starving to death accidentally."
 

goodgrief999

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My vision is a bit blurred, and so is my judgement, I am going to donate my entire estate, outlining the value of my avatar to famine relief, I can do that, just. I can also see that this would make quite a good read.
I can' read that much text tho' - but I had some divine inspiration today, this is a good place to recount it. My father was a very senior soldier and changed the way the army operates, I had an effect of my own, (after a friend sought my advice, homosexuality was decriminalised for British and US soldiers) I always liked the fact that my Dad found my army career so hilarious, I think it was the funniest thing he was aware of, and, a few hours ago, after twenty years have passed, I realised he admired ME - he wasn't laughing at me, but the army.

I just spotted all the kind offers - and this did spark the debate I wanted, the reason I was reluctant about it, is that people have a tendency to express sympathy, and I do not feel sorry for myself - quite the opposite.
It has been a privilege and it is an honour, to practice my faith in the ultimate way.
And, after posting this, I realised I could make a famine survivor happy - by donating my avatar.
179697_10200680457628543_269949936_n.jpg
 
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aia

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Aia, while I like the concept of a hall of fallen heroes; I suggest this be reserved for players that left us for good (aka died IRL).

Wasn't this the question for the original player?

(The obivous problem for MA, is they there is no easy way to see, for them, the reason a player suddently has stopped playing. Well unless for obivous reasons if they had been banned ofc.)

If a crafter is looking for a shop or Another player is looking for a nice house, it would be sad if he wasn't Able to get one (at a reasonable cost) while there are a few abandoned shops here and there that is closed for good because the old owner left game.
 

xaph

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Some items are limited by nature, such as houses, shops (in a specific location), land areas etc. These kinds of Resources should primarily belong to Active players. If a player definitely would never log in again and make use of it, it's better for everyone if the resourse, one way or Another, can be transferred to Another, Active, player

Another disorganized can of worms that MA will want no part in wanting to prolong /temp-retire Avatar or extend to other on expiry date. (deceased or alive)
 
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Magyar_Republic

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"I'm literally struggling to avoid starving to death accidentally."

The fuck?

Trustee's are free. I can read what you said. Since you want to be a dick about things though and start insinuating garbage, what are you doing on EU if you are struggling to avoid starving?

Drama queen?

I dont think you're any more on death's door than the rest of us, and this post was pure conjecture. Which is all well and good (we're all concerned on some level of what happens to our assets here if we die suddenly) until you want to pick a fight. You might just get someone who wants to talk about your glass house, then.

Keep it polite, or let's change the nature of the conversation. You probably dont appreciate people who insinuate that you are ignorant. Neither do I. Understand?
 
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