Known Issue: Spaceship Summoning

I will be surprised if MA can't post to the CL if it's important enough.

Anyway wasn't there a notice in the CL about exploiters and stuck mobs in the CL (I don't see it anymore) recently?

That was about people exploiting hunting in a manner which doesn't directly affect others (other then hunting in a manner which you are not supposed to, and maybe getting better loot due to less decay).

This issue affects everyone possibly, and nothing in the CL? If that notice can be in the CL, why isn't this, which potentially affects everyone with worst consequences (getting looted in pvp zone) not there?

Sometimes I don't get how MA works. Or the PPs for that matter.:scratch2:

That statement of trapping mobs was on PP site. Odd this one about summoning isn't.

It's probably the content from this site they use for CL. http://www.planetcalypso.com/news
Not sure how CL looks like when they are based on other planets thou', since this one is
Calypso CL, if there even are CLs that are based on other planets atm... :D ;)
 
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hilarious

when i discussed that topic ingame about a week ago we came to the topic what MA gonna do
i said they will do something like this
send a mail to the people saying "you bad bad bad boy! don't ya do that again or else!"

now they even write an official announcement like that :p

just great


seriously, what does it take them to actual ban people
they used exploits to steal other peoples money ffs (ah right, there is the point, not from MA with exploits, nm)

in either case, it stays amusing to watch ^^
 
in either case, it stays amusing to watch ^^
I wouldn't have used the word "amusing" myself. "Worrying" would be more like it, especially when you think the game is great but you no longer trust the developers to do the right thing regarding security.

Hey, Nero. Rome is still burning, y'know. :(
 
hilarious

when i discussed that topic ingame about a week ago we came to the topic what MA gonna do
i said they will do something like this
send a mail to the people saying "you bad bad bad boy! don't ya do that again or else!"

now they even write an official announcement like that :p

just great


seriously, what does it take them to actual ban people
they used exploits to steal other peoples money ffs (ah right, there is the point, not from MA with exploits, nm)

in either case, it stays amusing to watch ^^

Hit the nail on the head. MA were quick enough to act when people were using the trapping exploit in the instances because, surprise!, it directly affected them.
 
Hit the nail on the head. MA were quick enough to act when people were using the trapping exploit in the instances because, surprise!, it directly affected them.

Trapping was PP, space is MA... ;)
 
hilarious

when i discussed that topic ingame about a week ago we came to the topic what MA gonna do
i said they will do something like this
send a mail to the people saying "you bad bad bad boy! don't ya do that again or else!"

now they even write an official announcement like that :p

just great

seriously, what does it take them to actual ban people
they used exploits to steal other peoples money ffs (ah right, there is the point, not from MA with exploits, nm)

Yeah... I see one more time that you and me know how they behave all the time.
Hilarious, but pathetic.
If it was mindark's money stolen, they would not even wait 1 support case, but take actions.

Hit the nail on the head. MA were quick enough to act when people were using the trapping exploit in the instances because, surprise!, it directly affected them.

Trapping was PP, space is MA... ;)

Krazykat is right there, even if it was not really affecting MA since the anti-trap thing is intentional,
and is still alive.

"we volontarily made an exploit available, but it is forbbiden to use it because stryker asked for it" Amen.

Disable the anti-trapping logic wouldn't have been the solution everybody asked ?
Instead of letting it and threaten the players ?
 
seriously, what does it take them to actual ban people
they used exploits to steal other peoples money ffs (ah right, there is the point, not from MA with exploits, nm)


I think the problem is that did not actually exploit any bug. Yes, in this case it's pretty obvious for most of us that it's wrong and an exploit. But we could have similar issues that are not as clear if it wrong or not before MA have said "This is not an allowed behavior". So, official warning first like they did now, banning after that is the right method.
 
Yeah... I see one more time that you and me know how they behave all the time.
Hilarious, but pathetic.
If it was mindark's money stolen, they would not even wait 1 support case, but take actions.





Krazykat is right there, even if it was not really affecting MA since the anti-trap thing is intentional,
and is still alive.

"we volontarily made an exploit available, but it is forbbiden to use it because stryker asked for it" Amen.

Disable the anti-trapping logic wouldn't have been the solution everybody asked ?
Instead of letting it and threaten the players ?

It was PP that announced the trapping issue, MA who was "slow" with space.
I guess this is really confusing for most people when MA is split in two... :silly2:

Btw, what hurts MA hurts us too... probably even more for us actualy. ;)
 
what hurts MA hurts us too...probably even more for us actualy. ;)

You should create a thread with this title and ask for comments.

I think the answers given would be revealing a lot of hidden truth ;)...
 
You should create a thread with this title and ask for comments.

I think the answers given would be revealing a lot of hidden truth ;)...

Some answers should probably be interesting, while others should probably
be scary. Scary due to people believe in myths and other odd ideas about system. :D ;)
 
I wouldn't have used the word "amusing" myself. "Worrying" would be more like it, especially when you think the game is great but you no longer trust the developers to do the right thing regarding security.

Hey, Nero. Rome is still burning, y'know. :(
it is amusing because i am currently kinda pissed off with MA especially (if you havent noticed with my tone towards MA lately) and am playing less
so since it doesn't affect me anymore as badly as it had when all was nice and dandy it is amusing :)
but i agree that it is worrying as well

Hit the nail on the head. MA were quick enough to act when people were using the trapping exploit in the instances because, surprise!, it directly affected them.
when there was an update where you could buy a bp for 1 pec from the tech sell it back to techncian for 1 ped, the thing was fixed in not even an hour
they CAN be fast, very very fast, as long as it affects their purse, not ours
there are severail examples of that
or remember the day when kinda every mining probe was at least a global, server was taken down pretty fast too :p

all in all the conclusion is, "as long it doesn't affect our purse we don't care really"


I think the problem is that did not actually exploit any bug. Yes, in this case it's pretty obvious for most of us that it's wrong and an exploit. But we could have similar issues that are not as clear if it wrong or not before MA have said "This is not an allowed behavior". So, official warning first like they did now, banning after that is the right method.
yeah
there was an instance where someone used a wormhole chip to create a wormhole to old cnd (spacestation, now foma)
temp ban pretty fast

in this instance people were summoned without them even knowing they are in the ships passenger list
that is an exploit
people were summoned into a pvp zone where their items, with real money value, could be looted, because of an exploit
people lost real money because others used an exploit

thats the fact
that they hide behind the fact there is a pop up window "yo dude, youre about to be summoned into space, you can get looted there, so beware!" is basically one thing, or actually two
hair splitting and cowardice

technically this summon message shouldn't be able to pop up AT ALL, which is the issue
that there is a warning in fineprint there is all nice and dandy, but not the issue
editadd:
in either case there should be several mechanics in place to avoid you getting summoned at all (especially against your will; like a "im on these ships as passenger, can be summoned by it" field in a list, which is opt in, so you know where you can get to for once)
MA failed to implement proper precuations and it is their fault as such as well
editend


its known i am against lootable pvp especially in space, so let me clarify that i would love to see lootable space gone except in some small areas in space
simply because of the fact cause it is one of the biggest exploit shitholes there are and has been
examples?
the pvp4 "hahah, i know how to make my radar work while you don't" exploit
the space "yeah, i can exploit my quad wing to fly waaaaaaaay faster than yours" exploit
this funny summoning thing

i am not much into the issue of pvp exploits, i bet if you ask the right people you can get a way bigger list whats really going on there

so if MA would have any professional attidute, they would do those things

#temp ban everyone, seriously everyone who had shot on the ships that have been used to summon (ie pirates)
if someone of those complains, perm ban, be done with the annoyance (yeah its harsh, but stealing peoples money is too, and this was by using exploits even, not intended game mechanics, so its stealing)

#compensation, 2 options:
option 1
take the peds from ppl who looted the passengers of said ships, evenily by who looted most (they have logs of that, even if they always deny having logs) to compensate the people
the said ships used for summon get their owner removed, dead reauctioned, this will also be used as compensation

option 2:
compensate the people out of their own pocket, because they have the nerve to go on a one or two month holiday in a RCE game without leaving anyone with the power to SHUT THE SHIT AND EXPLOITS DOWN
actually thats the option i would prefer, paying from their own pocket may have a learning effect they need desperately imo

#shut the annoying and useless pvp in space down til you FIXED IT!
space is generally mostly an annoyance that takes time and peds when you wanna switch planets, may be intended but there are better ways
and tons of better ways than pvp


which brings me back to my point of being amusing
that they pretty much tried to ignore the issue that long, with the really funny "ya bad bad boy!" announcement makes them look pretty hilarious
definitely not from a victims point of view though

(i prolly get on the no loot list for that, but its my opinion)
 
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...
when there was an update where you could buy a bp for 1 pec from the tech sell it back to techncian for 1 ped, the thing was fixed in not even an hour
they CAN be fast, very very fast, as long as it affects their purse, not ours
there are severail examples of that
or remember the day when kinda every mining probe was at least a global, server was taken down pretty fast too :p

all in all the conclusion is, "as long it doesn't affect our purse we don't care really"
...

That would affect us more then them ingame, but could affect them IRL. ;)
 
That would affect us more then them ingame, but could affect them IRL. ;)
would it?

the bps were sold by technicians at the time, no markup could be destroyed
technically ped was generated without a deposit backing it up, ie if hit was to be withdrawn, it had come from MA pocket directly

direct effect for the players, pretty much 0, they had been paid with peds, where those immediately come from, if John Doe deposited them or they were generated this way hadn't been possible to determine
direct effect on MA, if ya automate that you can get peds fairly fast, even if you do that by yourself you can do it pretty fast, so withdrawing was definitely an issue
naturally MA would have to adjust the loot etc. later on so they don't sit on the loss, but effectively, the loss would have been MAs, not the players
although they have ways to shift that naturally

the mining thing is another problem, but efffectively the players had lost, drumroll
markup
the interesting part is, whom would be affected by it
in the end people holding lots of stock, lets say they would have 2000 dur in storage, and then a dur hof pops up every 2 min, they markup would fall naturally, they would lose out

miners on the other hand would lose markup but gain shitload of tt
so if their dur is suddenly worth 105% instead of 120% (made up figures) they prolly won't care much, if instead they get 500 ped back after the run instead of 50

crafters would be a bit divided, as several will hold stock at lose markup, but on the other hand can now buy stuff for waaaaay cheaper in markup, so this will not just even itself out but be a bargain for them

hunters no real effect directly, but prolly cheaper weapons from crafters

the immediate effect for players, for pretty much every player, had been outright positive

question is, what happens if i would hit 20 4000 peds loot a day with markup 105%
yes, indeed, right into the tt and withdraw!

again, ped generated without backing deposit-->MAs pocket
which again, they would have to shift to the players, but again, the immediate loss side is MAs, not players


so let me make the point again, when it hits MA, they act very very fast, if it hits the peds/cash of the players, there isn't such a hurry
i really don't feel like digging up examples for that, but just a few i can recall off the top of my head
my master coat is buggy since, uh, 5 years by now, it even got twice the boobs in another update and that wasnt fixed yet
that coat cost me 2k ped years back, so it affects me and my peds directly
the funny VU where previously "black" items became more greyish, it took an immense complaint wave with lots of support cases for MA to even bother (iirc some stuff still isn't back to normal)
but thats just clothes

remember the fun we had (still have) with the kinda wonky "yeah, im trapped, cant damage me, hahah" feature
especially in the first time when the mob decided it can hit you for nice damage but you couldn't return the favour
directly going on armor AND weapon decay
the fine tuning of the (still not really useful working) feature took years i think

thats the examples i got handy, i won't bother digging more up, but if youre interested we could start a thread about it :)
wonder what would come together (and how fast it would get locked :p)


but to bring this back on topic
the handling of this issue by MA is bad at best, but it shows the general state of the game/universe/platform and the reason why ppl leave fairly fast
if it keeps going they gonna fail and fail hard
EU wont be the only RCE for long and there are waaaaaay better examples of useful communications and actions from other companies, even those that tend to have a fairly bad community support themselves
 
would it?

the bps were sold by technicians at the time, no markup could be destroyed
technically ped was generated without a deposit backing it up, ie if hit was to be withdrawn, it had come from MA pocket directly


We can not be sure about that. If the "ped-loot" system is a "closed" system, and the only input and output from the system is deposits and withdrawals, it could be that the ped are taken from the loot, that is, if we have a bug like this that gives more peds than the player should have, it could have decrease the loot/return for the players instead. Without know how the system works, we can't know for sure where the extra peds comes from. It could be something that hurt the players as much as MA.
 
would it?

the bps were sold by technicians at the time, no markup could be destroyed
technically ped was generated without a deposit backing it up, ie if hit was to be withdrawn, it had come from MA pocket directly
(long post shortened... ;))

I guess we look at in a different way, well at least some parts.
So here is my p.o.v of it.

First of all, every ped ingame are put there by us. The players. Not by MA.
MA can keep values ingame thou', that should have been removed via decay.
MA has a system that in average creates a loss for every action that build up loot.
We put in 100%, and get 90% back.(I use 90% just as a example, but since some
claims that is what we get back, lets use that here.)
This system is based on a "per individual avatars loss", not system in general,
since it is there to create a negative flow so depos are done.
Don't mix up this with individual player, it isn't based on the player.

If someone finds a way to put in 100% and get 10000% back, that will hurt us
players since it's from same system as we get loot.
Some call it lootpool, others call it something else, but in basics, just as billairboy
mentioned, it's a closed system. MA would probably just call it "the system". ;)
A system that has a equal value of 66 million SEK atm, approx 100million PED.
(If YOU run and develop a game as EU, would YOU create a system that is closed
or open with no limitations from where PED are generated? ;))

If someone now withdraw it, it will hurt MA since those PEDs are generated outside the
formula of "10% loss in average per action done".
Someone has begun to hurt the balance for everyone, both MA and players, by
doing this.
Individual players hasn't lost "enough" so less depos needed, but at the same time,
system for loot is drained that could reduce payout in loot for others, and also lower
interest for more depos if loot is too bad.
There are so many parts in this equation that has to be considered to make it work.
Some parts are easy, they are pure math, but other parts are emotional, since
they must keep interest high enough among players.
So even when everything proceed as it should it must be small hell to find a
decent balance, if now a part is exploited, it could ruin this balance bigtime.
Even thou' most of these exploits are small in value, they must act before they
escalate to something that isn't possible to handle.
What happens if it wasn't a exploit but a bug in loot, where everyone all of a sudden
got 3k % back?
It isn't so hard to understand why they act faster in some occassions... even thou'
the best would be if they act fast in all occassions. :D ;)
So in the end, what hurts them, hurts us too. And yes, no matter what system that is
used, risk still excist that those PEDs from BPs came from thin air... but I highly
doubt that MA create a system where they will be hurt, it's the players that has to
take the direct hit for this type of actions, and MA try to solve it later... ;)
 
We can not be sure about that.

If people would do that in a big scale, imagine thousands of players cycling through the trade terminal as fast as they can, let's say 1000 ped/day, it would probably have a big impact of MAs incomes.

I'm fairly sure that things like Trade Terminals are supposed to "break even". Same thing with repair terminals. They just move peds from one place to another place.

If someone finds out a way to abuse the trade terminals or any other system that moves "tt-value" from one place of inventory to another place of inventory, sure it will probably have an impact on loot when MA managers sees one system has an unexpected loss and that loss has to be covered. But it would be unlikely that trade terminals are tied to the looting system.
 
what RSS Feed? i've been asking for one for a long time for my site? could you tell me what the address is?

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rexdameon/

I looked and couldn't find anything regarding RSS on that site either. RSS is one thing, a website with a notice and a hidden RSS is another. I have the option of liking the page via facebook though. Quite a relief to see that major priority bug/exploit free.

Suppose its kinda like the special deals they give some players...which is almost exactly like a PP agreement with future revenue from referrals, and not the rest of us. That is missing on the site too.
 
First of all, every ped ingame are put there by us. The players. Not by MA.

PPs and MA itself both put peds in game sometimes. Can't find the quote now, but somewhere Kim has indicated what his monthly allowance is.
 
PPs and MA itself both put peds in game sometimes. Can't find the quote now, but somewhere Kim has indicated what his monthly allowance is.

And those avatars from MA and PP are seen as... players? ;)
Ofc can both MA and PP put in money, I was way too unclear with that sentence,
since what it ment was PEDS doesn't magically appears from MAs RL "pocket".
I "knew" someone should react on that already when I wrote it, but I was to lazy
to make it clear enough, so my fault there.
But when you look at this one, the next sentence ...
"MA can keep values ingame thou', that should have been removed via decay."
They don't have to remove that value out of game, just transfer it to avatars
that they use... or features... and exactly the same for a PP.
No point in first remove a value and then "depo" it back, is it? :)
So I guess I covered it in some way, that MA and PP do "put in" money in the game...

I guess this happens when I'm too bored of the game and are here too much instead... :silly2: ;)
Gonna try to be more clear next time thou'.
 
Why can't they ban ?

To all the people who say the summoners should be ban, I agree with you.
But Ma can't ban those people, because if they done it, they should ban the owner of the space ship too, and those people have money.They may make a lawsuit against MA for getting back their PED, because this isn't write anywhere that it's illegal. Of course, MA would win the lawsuit, but the reputation of MA and the game will get even worst, and that wan't help to get new players.
Now,I guess, since their is a warning, all the summoners who still use this exploit will be ban.
 
To all the people who say the summoners should be ban, I agree with you.
But Ma can't ban those people, because if they done it, they should ban the owner of the space ship too, and those people have money.They may make a lawsuit against MA for getting back their PED, because this isn't write anywhere that it's illegal. Of course, MA would win the lawsuit, but the reputation of MA and the game will get even worst, and that wan't help to get new players.
Now,I guess, since their is a warning, all the summoners who still use this exploit will be ban.

True, but I think if I have followed this right, the ship was bought from the money looted in space just a few weeks ago with that big 5k usd theft?
 
We can not be sure about that. If the "ped-loot" system is a "closed" system, and the only input and output from the system is deposits and withdrawals, it could be that the ped are taken from the loot, that is, if we have a bug like this that gives more peds than the player should have, it could have decrease the loot/return for the players instead. Without know how the system works, we can't know for sure where the extra peds comes from. It could be something that hurt the players as much as MA.

Once MA official Marko said that this is so called NULL system - whatever you think it is.
I supose it mean that it contain only what is put (deposited) in first - to be on disposition and cant be taken out more than that.
That cud be fine but ppl reading MA anual reports say that MA do not cover peds and all TT valuses in game 100% but a lot less.
Nothing unusual i think - like a normal bussines model.
Problem cud be seen in case of mass withraval of ( no matter if cheated or normal) peds.
Ofc rest of players will suffer that in one or other form together with MA.
 
This information was originally posted on the official Entropia Universe Buzz site, which offers a RSS feed for all of the various Entropia Universe forums and fan sites, as well as the Planet Partner forums.

If you look at the last few posts, you will see people can't find your RSS feed.

I don't even go to that site all that often myself, and I have been playing many years. I don't think many people are even aware of that site. Not to mention the long delay since the issue was discussed in forum before it was even mentioned by MA anywhere.

The CL is the ONE location that all players will see before login. You should post issues which impact / possibly impact all players there.

Read the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy before?

To Quote :

"But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."

"Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."

"But the plans were on display ..."

"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."

"That's the display department."

"With a flashlight."

"Ah, well the lights had probably gone."

"So had the stairs."

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."
 
You know what else would have been nice?

If there was a date or time stamp on the entropia buzz site.

The posts could have been there from 5 minutes or 5 years ago. No easy way to find out.

lol

:scratch2:
 
--Mod's report--
I've moved a bunch of off-topic comments to another thread in order to preserve the true reason for this thread (this specific exploit, NOT space/PVP in general) and the other discussions.

I reserve the right to move more posts I may have missed while being in a hurry.
--/Mod's report--
 
So MindArk first publically acknowledged the abuse of the summonse eight days ago, yet there's been no further information on their side since, and no indication (no matter how vague) that the perpetrators have been dealt with.

Still, it doesn't matter. I mean, its not as though we're playing with real money or anything like that, is it...? :laugh:

That last line is me being sarcastic, BTW.
 
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