Info: Leeloo's Mining Guide

LeelooM

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Leeloo Leeloo Mountain
Started in 2003 as a miner and I still love it.
Off course I had some breaks, did other things, but mining has also completely changed over the years and is very stable.
So if you want to contact me and I'm DND (Do Not Disturb) I'm dropping bombs and must say I still find mining very relaxing and fun.
Mining has become very technical now (at least if you want to do profit mining)

Hope all is clear, if not, just ask :)
GL mining all.

WHAT FINDER to use?
Always only use a finder that you have maxed.
When is a finder maxed?
If the average depth numbers are equal so that means for a F-105 it should say 522,4/522,4 on ores if you go for ores.
While mining your skills will go up and you can use higher lvl finders that can go deeper.
This doesn't mean you will make more profit ^^

If you didn't maxed out the finder, you can use it and find things, but you will find less. (not smaller claim sizes)

The average depth means you will find most stuff -200 and +200 on that depth.

Let's take the finder B35. Average depth is 502,50

In the pic you see I didn't maxed it so it says 444,5/502,50 not much of a difference but still.
Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you have it maxed, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 702,50
Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you did not maxed it, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 644,5, so now your loosing (702,5 minus 644,50 depth) a difference of 58 depth. Claims in this 58 difference you will not find so your loosing peds
Agree it isn't much but doing this over and over again...



SIB means getting more skills so that is positive, but I would go for a better return first, not for skills.
Skills you will need to use higher finders.
But then I ask you again? Why use a higher finder? What are you going to mine?
Look at the economics and MU's first, then go mining

Somebody once asked MA if the higher the skills the better return? The answer was yes but ...
Been testing out some different finders on the same spots lately.
Dropping with the F-101 first and then at the same spot F-106 (with 9 enh for lowest overlapping) in the same run.
My HR with the F-106 was 6x higher than with the F-101 even when I used the F-101 first (coincidence or not?).
This means once you unlocked a better/higher finder ... USE it. Your returns will be better.

3 different mining types
The cheapest to mine is enmatter : you will get most skills with surveyor and costs 0,50 ped for 10 probes/drop/unamped
The second in line is ores : you will get most skills with prospecting costs 1 ped for 20 probes/drop/unamped
And last but not least : treasures will give you most skills in treasure hunter costs 1.50 ped for 30 probes/drop/unamped

Finders that use more probes exist but we will talk about that later, same about amps.

HOW to mine
Honeycomb methode leaves the least open spots so prefer to mine like this

While mining keep a close eye to your HR (Hitrating) AND your return.
Your HR should be 30-35% all the time, in some cases even up to 40-45% (for ores)
For enm HR might be a bit lower like 25-30%
If your HR is less than that 30% it means some 1 just mined there, stop mining, stand still and wait 15 min at least. This is the time needed for the claims to respawn.

Thanks to Avrelivs for this pic :)


HOW NOT to mine
When just running around (chicken run) and dropping bombs you will loose a lot if your not lucky

High Hit Rating = the key to success

Hitrate testing round 1

Hitrate testing round 2

WHERE to find what you want to mine?

!!! WARNING !!!
More and more I'm getting pm's of people asking me if they should pay for info about mining ... and where to get what.
The answer is simple​
NO
MA is changing things week by week, month by month, year after year so you are buying a cat in a sack and imo you are paying for a scam !!!
Just use the LBML map and try to find out yourself, cause nothing is that simple as it looks.​

The MOST IMPORTANT is to KNOW THE ZONE where you want to mine, so if you are a starting mining, keep going to only a few zones at a time.

First thing to do is download and install Little Big Mining Blog.http://www.mininglog.com/

While mining it will register all your findings, even at what time you found them and the depth. This if very handy for future use.
If you zoom into the map of this tool you will notice squares equal to the maps http://www.mininglog.com/maps.php
If the maps says you will find XX for a certain %, this doesn't mean you will find it in the whole square, you still need to find where.
But while mining there and using LBMB you will make your own map that register it all for you.

More and more people getting problems with LBML so please best also use a alternative for whenever LBML doesn't work anymore and put all in excel or what ever you like so you no not loose all your date..

You can find almost anything at any depth when its on that server at a specific place, What you get depends on what finder you use.
Try it out on a good zone you have and keep doing the same runs over and over again, then check the outcomes.

For the moment I'm testing out different finders (UNL) in some area's to know what finder is best to use when I want to mine some specific resources.

Megan can be found between 190 depth and 1581 depth with an average of 907 depth (according to LBML)
Some results for megan in a zone I use :
When using the F-101 (depth 20-592) I get 11,98% megan
When using the F-102 I get 16,56% megan
When using the F-103 (depth 153-597) I get 17,32% megan
When using the F-104 (depth 233-801) I get 18,40 % megan
When using the F-105 I get 19,38% megan
When using the F-106 (depth 312-935) I get 20,70% megan

Offcourse I find less megan (with lower finders) here but if you compare the costs ..... do some maths :p

You can also do that for resources with a lower MU, like Iron sells very fast .... and with a F-103 I'm getting (in a specific zone) 97% so you dont always have to get that very deep.

Mining for enm/ore/trea at the same time?
No, I mostly dont do that only on a few zones.
Here is why.

Let's have a look at an area where I go mine for typo and kanerium.

What kind of enmatters do I find there? (average depth)
Cave sap (672) - Garcen (689) - Magerian (687) - Typo (681)
With typo being the best to mine here cause % is the highest I would use my F-106 + 2 enhancers that would let me mine on a depth of 668,7 or 3 enhanders for 711,2

What kind of ores doe I find here? (average depth)
Belkar (840) - Durulium (760) - Gazzurdite (710) - Kanerium (771)
With kanerium being the best to mine here cause % is the highest I would use mu F-106 with 3 enhancers that would let me mine on a depth of 755,20 or 4 enhancers for 798,5 depth

Off course you will not only get the typo nor the kanerium but also the others, but now your best shot is for typo and kanerium when you do seperate runs.
In this case I can also go with my F-106 + 3 enhancers, but this isn't the case everywhere you go mining, so plan a head.

As I go mining for a certain (example) enmatter I do not need ores nor treasure. It will only make my run a lot more costly, but I'll also get what I do not want.
You will also need to keep a close look on the costs and return, so lets say you are doing a 100 ped run for enmatters, then I check every 25 ped (so every 50 drops) what the return is. Using a portable TT unit is very handy (or make an excell sheet)
When mining for enm/ore/trea at the same time, will make it harder to track what is going good or bad.

Economics and TT return
MA changes economics in mining almost daily (imo), or players do while stocking up, crafters burning resources.
This is great to see MU's go up and down BUT this is what makes you give a good or bad run!!!
Let's assume you have a nice place to mine some narcanisum, when mining you see that you are getting more other resources and also that your return is lower than usual. When you finish your run and check auction you will see that narcanisum has less pages than normal ..... That's because economics on narcanisum has changed, less findings and MU will go up.
Time to sell your stock if you have some :)
Here again, its very important to know your mining zones.

Before you start mining
- Check resources on auction - If there is plenty of a resource on auction (so people find a lot) , check your zones that have most of this ( and check also what else is in that zone)
- 2nd is timing - if you start with a bad HR, another miner was there short before you, so wait 15-30 min and start mining again.
This is the way I mine and keep mining cause my TT return is mostly between 110-115% !!!
In other words :
When there is lots on auction and MU is low or going down GO MINE it since you will get lots so great TT runs, but you need to stock up.
When there isn't much on auction or less than usual or % is going up, you will find less so bad TT runs.
This counts for mid-level / high end ores


Re-bombing or not
Let's assume you drop a probe and got a hit and the claims spawns right next to you.
When using LBML is will even say how much % of where you are standing is left to find another claim... Now you have to choose move on or re-bomb the same spot.
I tried it many times and I don't think that I did find another claim at that same spot for more than 5%. Never took notes of it, but in my opinion it's not worth it.

Indoor mining
Indoor mining can be done on Monria, FOMA,Hell, Arkadia Moon and Arkadia Underground
REMEMBER that in those area's you only have 0,4 finder range, so if you want to do honeycomb best use 40 x 40
Indoor mining has a very low SR (mostly around 5%) but if you find a claim it will be bigger.
According to MA (and I quote) : high risk mining but with bigger rewards.
FOMA : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?160306-FOMA-Mining-Chart-VU10
Hell : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?211239-Hell-Mining-Chart
Monria : http://www.monria.com/forum/threads/monria-mining-ore-enmatter-distribution.3567/
Arkadia UG http://arkadiaforum.com/threads/arkadia-underground-mining-map.10460/
Arkadia Moon : Map available on LBML maps

WHAT to mine with a bit of skills.
If your a beginner there are not much choices yet and you will hit mostly lyst, belk, oil, etc.... depending in what area you are mining.
So here again its very important that you go to an area where you can find a lot to get skills faster.
Check area's / depths / no mob area's and start the run to get skills.

While mining and building up skills, dont forget to take the mining missions for free skills
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Mission

You can also get daily mining missions that give you daily tokens when finished. With those daily tokens you can get finders (L) I didn't get/used them yet, but when I do I'll let you know :)
For 100 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z10(L)
For 200 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z25(L)
For 400 daily tokens you can get the CDF Finder z40(L)


WHAT to mine with more skills.
By now you already should have a nice map and know where most ores/enm/trea can be found.
So what I do is check MU's on ores/enm/trea and average sales / month, check the depth, check where to find them, equip a finder (with a number of enh to reach that average depth if needed) and go mine for those.
OR
Check market sales and you will see that some sales are huge.
Check the minimum depth on LBML and try to find out what (mini) finder is best to mine that particular resource with the minimum cost

Go with the flow (My way of mining and imo most profitable)
Another way of mining but you will need a bigger bankroll to stock up.
As already mentioned MA does changes economics from time to time so also what will be more or less available when mining.
You can see that in auction or when your mining yourself since that recourse you will get more. You might get some swirls also ^^
Since not only you are finding more but other miners also, there will be more available on auction, more pages, more undercutting.....
So keep it stocked up, in a few days/weeks MA will alter it again, wait till % is up again, then start selling or calculate prices for smaller stacks and sell those for a higher %.
Example :
While mining you need to sell your iron for at least 108% to break even or make some profit.
You normally sell your 100 stack iron for 110,26% = netto 108,49%
Miners find a lot of it so % will go down
So now you sell your 30 stack iron for 128,21% = netto 119,99%

WHEN to mine
Try to mine the same area over and over again at different day's, at different times.
When taking notes, you will see that at different times you well get different outcomes, compare it with loot waves.
So you didn't get lot's of typo in the morning? nor in the evening? what about in the afternoon?
Try and see :)
Do not forget that MA makes changes from time to time when suddenly you are not finding as much of what you used to at a spot at that time, call it a change in economics.

Your weight (problem)
When mining you will see your weight is building up to yellow ... then red so you cant run anymore.
Make sure you have a few cars in your inventory, spawn 1, fill the cars inventory with enm/ores/trea and leave it there
Keep on doing this untill you end your run, then, once at storage, press the recall all cars button from library (make shortcut) and look in your storage.

UNL finders or L finders?
There are pro's and contra's on both.
Unlimited finders are hard to get (and I mean starting from F-105 and higher).
They do cost more when you want to buy them and you will need to Tier them up if not already done and this costs a lot.
Advantage you have here is, when you Tiered the finder up, you can go mine at any depth you like cause they stay unlocked. You only need to put enhancers in it to change your average depth.
Limited finders are much more available and easy to get.
On the other hand you do pay MU every time you buy 1 and and you can only use enhancers on them when you unlocked the slots.
Enhancers will break a lot faster on L finders.

Also decay on UNL finders is a lot less.
For example let's go try to find gold with the average depth of 822
Each drop with the F-106 (without enhancers) will cost you 0,01799 Ped
Assuming you pay 200% for 1 depth enhancer, it will cost 0,80 *200% = 0,016 ped / drop (estimated 1 break after 100 drops), they will break random in any slot even when using 10 depth enhancers in 10 different slots
So using the F-106 (with enhancers) costs a totall of 0,03399 Ped / drop in decay
So using the Terramaster 5 (without enhancers) will cost you 0,04125 Ped / drop in decay

So its up to you what finder you will be using and how you want to go mining.
Some prefer UNL, some L

Most finders will tell you that they need 10 probes/enmatter - 20 probes/ores - 30 probes/treasure
CHECK this before you buy another finder.
Some finders use a lot more.
Have a look at this Ziplex C50 (L)



Those are called pre-amped finders.

PRE-amped finders



This finder is using 30 probes / drop, so when going for ore only, you are paying 20 probes/drop (so 1 ped) + a extra 10 probes (so 0,50 ped) + decay of the finder.
That brings us back to most finders that uses 20 probes + level 2 amp that also costs 1,50 ped / drop BUT you are looking much deeper to find something without depth enhancers.
Most findings I got where all modest, so bigger claims on a hit.


Depth Enhancers
Adding enhancers to your finder(s) will let you find deeper stuff.
Every level you unlocked on your finder will allow you to go 7,43% deeper, so this is different on every finder
For the F-105, with a average depth of 522,4 putting a enhancer into (any slot) will give you another 38,2 depth, enhancers in any 2 different slots will give you 38,2 * 2 = 74,4 depth more
For the F-106, with a average depth of 582,1 putting a enhancer into (any slot) will give you another 43,3 depth, enhancers in any 2 different slots will give you 43,3 * 2 = 86,6 depth more

You can check the depth of all enm/ores/trea at LBMB but when checking this with your own statistics it might be different.
This is because you might be mining on a different planet and/or different server.
Remember the squares on the LMBM map? Those are the different servers you are mining on.

Enhancers do play a big role in your return.
Example :
When I go mining for zinc in "my" spot ... my best return for zinc and average is F-106 + lvl 1+2 enhancers.
A friend, also equipped with the F-106 on "his" spot for zinc, but on another server, is having a better return and average with lvl 1+2+3 enhancers.

Another way to use depth enhancers is :
If I'm in a zone with lots of high mu resources, that mostly have a deeper average depth, I use a lot more enhancers.
Now let's check this for megan with an average depth of 920 and was found (so far) at even at 1518 depth
In this case I use my F-106 with 8 depth enhancers. This makes me find anything between 600-1350 depth ^^
With using more depth enhancers you don not only go deeper BUT you are also making your search "bubble" bigger.

Now that you know how mining works, build up some skills and got a decent finder, time to test out the area's you have been mining and compare them in depth/profit.
You will find out, even when loosing/gaining the system will bring you back to 94-95% TT return.
Making profit or not depends only at what % you will sell your resources.

Testing depth enhancers + TT returns round 1 No Amps used

Speed enhancers
Speed enhancers will help you get a claim faster (think pvp) where it can be dangerous ^^
If you get a claim in pvp, use them, put bits and pieces in your invent and jump out regular (NOT to the closest TP). Even if you left pvp you still can get shot + looted in the next 30 sec and some just wait till you jump to TP.

Range enhancers
When your mining with UNL finders, you will prefer to use depth enhancers
If you prefer using all kinds of different (L) finders (for all kinds of different depths) you might be looking for range enhancers cause they will give you 1% range more.
So let's have a look at the Ziplex TK320 Seeker that can be used to find petonium (average depth 850)



As most finders the range here is 55 m (indoor 27,5 m)
So every range enhancer you use on it will give you 1% range more so 0,55 m (indoor 0,275 m)
Because you are using enhancers on a (L) finder they are breaking faster also.
Some might like this way of mining some dont, imo its very expensive this way.

Refining your resources

Before selling your resources you best refine them.
There are many different refiners on the market so what to choose?
I would strongly advice to go for the Transformer T-105 (hard to get and high TT value of 75 ped) OR
the Imperium Resource Refiner B1 with only a TT value of 6 ped
Both are cheapest to refine resources ingame.

There are even more better refiners but those will cost you a few K peds so up to you if they are worth it.

Check them out on entropiawiki

When refining Nutrio's and ME you should try to wait till you can get K of each since you get 1001 per 1K refined.

Thanks to Christer Toad and Vi for this very handy list to refine ores from the McGrangust list


SELLING your enm / ores / treasure
I know this can be a pain, but with patience you will get there.
My first rule is, NEVER TT ANYTHING (and no I do not have 100k peds to stock up).
I NEVER sell under 110% MU, this only doesn't count for oil.
Even when you mostly find low MU ores/enm/trea you can sell them.
The good part is that many need small amounts for tiering up or daily crafting, so its worth putting stacks on auc like 100 lysterium ingots.
Do I hear you say and pay fee every time? Yes ^^
Assuming you have 300 ped lyst and usuall you TT it ... so you can go mining again .... to TT more since the market is already flooded.... and loose peds, then go mining again ... TT more .... loose more
Put 100 lyst on auction = 3 ped @ 133,33% = 4 ped, you pay 0,54 ped fee so after sales (and it will sell) you get 3,44. You made 0,44 ped profit.
Not really much you think now?
True BUT 300 ped lyst = 100 times 0,44 ped = 44 ped profit in total, so that is what you'll loose every time you TT 300 ped lyst.
Don't start putting up 10 x 100 lyst on auction, then the risk of not selling and paying fee is high, just try to sell 1 or 2 stacks of 100.

Why is selling with MU so important?
According to MA : Net return cycling for 100,000 PED since VU 15.15: 97.29%"
This counts for bombs, finders, extractors,amps, enhancers... BUT only for TT value, all MU is your risk so you will need to make profit/sell with MU to earn that back.


But how much does mining cost?
I think getting a 'netto return' of 97,29% isn't that bad at all, BUT you still have costs.... here some averages :

How I mine :
Probes you get at 100% so this means you are loosing 0%
I use a F-106 + ME/01 + T-105 so no MU to pay 0%
I do not use L finders so I don't pay MU on those is 0,00 %
I also use depth enh @ 200% (between lvl I-IX) and that is another 1,3686 %
I do not use amp so I don't pay MU on those is 0,00%
I do not mine in taxed LA's so that is 0,00%

So what is the end result in costs for me :
97,29% netto return MINUS all my costs 1,3686% = 95,9214%

As soon as I enter a taxed LA ... just say with 3,99% taxes .... I need to recover that 3,99% also, so in my case I get netto 91,9314%. This makes it already a lot harder to sell cause I need to recover a lot more.

Now if you are using a L finder ... a L amp .... L extractor ... etc ... count for yourself ...

Do not start undercutting other miners ... some do count there return and selling for less will get you bankrupt (seen it happening a lot) unless you love to deposit a lot, and mostly it ends with selling there mining skills so they can go do something else.

If MU is to low to sell, keep it in storage and DO NOT SELL.
The only thing a miner needs is a finder and bombs, look at the gear a hunter needs.... so you should be able to stock up and have patience, MU will go up again at some point.
I even helped miners that only had 500 ped to start

Study auction for % on resources or try sweating to make ME with all the force nexus you have mined while you await sales :laugh:

At some point the same ores will be stocking up depending where you mine and your stack will be getting bigger and bigger .....
Once you see you are making progress and you are making profits, try to sell those stacks when they reached 5-10-15-20K, Auction fee is a lot lower when selling huge stacks and you still can make some profit on them so always better than TT them.
Doing this will free up some peds and you get the repair costs back

Traders/Crafters
I strongly advice NOT to sell to traders/resellers/crafters. Doing this will give you almost no profit.
Better is to make small stacks and sell those, even when you pay fee you will gain more than selling to traders/c(rafters.
They try to buy at very low % (some will even just pay you 100,50%) and will even undercut you when selling what they have. If your resources are not worth more to them, DO NOT SELL. Crafters will love to take your resources for cheap also, cause that means more profit for the crafter.
LEARN how to sell on auction and I mean : stack sizes / % that sell best to get the most profit. In most cases you will be amazed en have a nice profit.
So by selling that cheap to them, you make yourself poor or even bankrupt and are making them rich.

Extractors
For extractors its important that decay is as less as possible off course to keep your costs down.
Check here for Efficiency/pec and what is affordable for you. http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=Excavator

Using amps or not
That is completely up to you and your peds.
Using amps will let you find more on a hit so you safe time using them.
When you go mining in the same area on a regular basis (and I know this sounds crazy) you will get a feeling how the run is going to be.... So if at the start my HR (HitRating) is great, I might put an amp on and see how it goes :)

Amps efficiency can be check at the following page :
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...?257702-Efficiency-scale-of-Mining-Amplifiers
Efficiency will help you find bigger claims.

What does a drop cost with a certain amp?
http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=FinderAmplifier
So on each drop you need to add the decay of the amp to know the exact price of drop. If you are looking for enm/ores/trea at the same time, you need to multiply 1 drop cost by 3

I love to play with numbers in excell also so I can find every run in it, if you do so you will see that some area's will mostly give you a nice return. Use your amps wisely ^^

Amps on Monria,FOMA or HELL ?
Those places have a HR under 5% so count yourself .... would you gamble on it?
Here a list where you can check decay/drop http://www.entropiawiki.com/Chart.aspx?chart=FinderAmplifier

Some have been asking me why I do not use amps (or rarely use them), so this is why

If I do use them its mostly the D-class or lvl 8 so let's calculate with that 1 but you can use the same calculation with any other amps off course.

Each drop (ores only) will cost you 4 ped so + 1 ped drop from probes gives us a drop of 5 ped
On a hit you will get (mostly) an ample, this is between 12-18 ped (TT value) so an average of 15 ped ^^
This means you need a Hit Rate of 33,33% to break even (again TT value)

33,33% Hit Rating is not very rare but also not very common and i call it the magic number, again it's all about the zone you are in and how HR is. Knowing the zone very good gives you a high advantage.
So you need a hit every 3th drop (average), if not you are loosing (hard)

If you are putting up an amp because your HR was very nice , it will go down when you put an amp on. If your HR is going under 33,33% put it off again.

Using this in a zone where there are mostly high MU ores (and I mean over 150%) will give you more certainty of your return and yes those zones exist but are very rare

Mining on other planets and transporting all recourses

Transporting your resources in a quad or sleipnir is dangerous so do not do that.
Transporting them in equus or privateer is also dangerous, so best do not do that neither.
Only transport them in a privateer or MS that use a website so you can log off on warp and follow on the website when they arrived safely in the space station.
Here are the links so you can talk to the captain on warp or arrival
http://www.efa.ms/ and / or http://kronan-ms.info/webchat/

We all know that warping like this costs money so how can you minimize the costs to get all your resources safely to caly cause economics are best there cause you will also have to pay 7 ped to TP from Caly SS to the planet it self.

There are 3 options :
1 : You take a VIP warp that will cost you 25 ped (if the MS is already stationed at the planet your on) and then pay 7 ped for the TP to get on the planet caly.
2 : You try to get more passengers on the warp by shouting so you can split the 25 ped warp, then pay the 7 ped TP to get on the planet caly.
3 : Put your resources on auction on the planet you have been mining for 24 hours, dont forget to write down the fee. Jump into your quad, fly to caly (this costs about 2 ped landing fee + 0,10 ped decay on truster and about 1 ped oil). After arriving on caly, and after 24 hours the resources you placed on auc will be in your won items if they didn't sell. So check your won items, click on them and now you can let MA deliver them for 2 ped (up to 60 kg) to caly :)

Still working on a list of weight/transport prices but this is what I have so far up to :
60 kg = 2 ped
73,80 kg = 2,43 ped
79,80 kg = 2,63 ped
100 kg = 3,30 ped
120 kg = 3,96 ped
137,50 kg = 4,53 ped
145,20 kg = 4,79 ped
159,90 kg = 5,27 ped
180 kg = 5,94 ped
200 kg = 6,60 ped
240 kg = 7,92 ped
300 kg = 9,90 ped
320 kg = 10,56 ped
333,40 kg = 11 ped

So here again count count count.

Crafting and your mined resources

When you have that many resources you will be tempted to start crafting, in most cases amps and depth enhancers.
You will also need a lot of components and those are cheapest to craft and you can build up skills with those.

For myself I NEVER use my own resources cause I might loose 2x.
When I want to craft I buy some cheap resources from auction, who are always cheaper than what I sell them for (in small stacks and high mu) So when loosing a bit on a craft it is less than with my own resources.

When your BP's are getting a higher and higher QR you will start making profit this way also, but it can take a very long time so buy your resources as cheap as possible (or even try to buy them from the streets from miners)

And finally Profits or Losses

My mining runs are about 100-600 ped each, depends on how the area was in the past and MU's. Do a few runs on different hours on the same spot at least 5-10 times to get a feeling with that area.
When getting a Hit Rating of +33% I start using amps
Watch out if your return is much lower as usual, just leave and go to another spot.
You do not need high skills to make profit when you count and have patience :cool:
You will not get rich fast (unless you are extremely lucky) :scratch2:
Never see 1 run as profit/loss, count and make averages, you will get lucky from time to time :yay:
Getting globals/hof's doesn't mean your making profit :wtg:
There will be bad and great times :eek:
But first off all COUNT and use your brains when mining :wise:
Only knowledge will make you rich :confused:

And most of all :
HAVE FUN

Please feel free to write down how you experienced the tips in here.

Special thanks To Kingofaces and Casper for all the testing we done, and we keep testing :)
 
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wizz

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....

Selling your enm / ores / treasure
I know this can be a pain, but with patience you will get there.
My first rule is, never TT anything (and no I do not have 100k peds to stock up).
Even when you mostly find low MU ores/enm/trea you can sell them.
The good part is that many need small amounts for tiering up, so its worth putting stacks on auc like 100 lysterium ingots.
Do I hear you say and pay fee every time? Yes ^^
Assuming you have 300 ped lyst and usuall you TT it ... so you can go mining again .... to TT more since the market is already flooded....
Put 100 lyst on auction = 3 ped @ 133,33% = 4 ped, you pay 0,54 ped fee so after sales (and it will sell) you get 3,44. You made 0,44 ped profit.
Not really much you think now?
True BUT 300 ped lyst = 100 times 0,44 ped = 44 ped profit in total, so that is what you'll loose every time you TT 300 ped lyst.

.
Thanks for this handout.

But in regards of selling the stuff on auction, you write it down nicely, but is it also true in practise?

to place a 3 ped stack of lyst for 4 ped is nice, but do they ALWAYS sell?
If not, it costs you 0,50 ped per unsold stack.
So if you get 300 ped worth of lyst, you have 100 stack's that costs 50 ped total to place on auction.
I consider not selling a stack a considerable risk of 0,50 ped per 3 ped stack.
 

LeelooM

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Thanks for this handout.

But in regards of selling the stuff on auction, you write it down nicely, but is it also true in practise?

to place a 3 ped stack of lyst for 4 ped is nice, but do they ALWAYS sell?
If not, it costs you 0,50 ped per unsold stack.
So if you get 300 ped worth of lyst, you have 100 stack's that costs 50 ped total to place on auction.
I consider not selling a stack a considerable risk of 0,50 ped per 3 ped stack.
Hiya :)

For me so far it has sold all the time, mining again for a few months now. It might change now if many read this and do it also lol, but it's really worth the try imo.
Even for melchi I put stacks of 100 and 300 on auc and they sell also and many others.
 

wizz

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Hiya :)

For me so far it has sold all the time, mining again for a few months now. It might change now if many read this and do it also lol, but it's really worth the try imo.
Even for melchi I put stacks of 100 and 300 on auc and they sell also and many others.
lol, yes, you just dug your own (auction) grave as now we are all going to do that! :wtg:

The potential not selling the small stacks has always prevented me to do so.
But yes indeed, if they do sell, then it's absolutely worth the effort.
 

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Since when did enhancers get an average of 1000 drops? In my experience you're lucky to get 50; biggest waste of peds ever.
 
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LeelooM

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Since when did enhancers get an average of 1000 drops? In my experience you're lucky to get 50; biggest waste of peds ever.
I use them all the time on the F-106 and they hardly break. I rarely need to craft them.

But let's assume they break every 50 drops, it still would only cost 2,927 pec / drop compared to the 4,125 pec decay of the Terramaster 5
 
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slither

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I use them all the rime on the F-106 and they hardly break. I rarely need to craft them.

But let's assume they break every 50 drops, it still would only cost 2,927 pec / drop compared to the 4,125 pec decay of the Terramaster 5
Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.
 

LeelooM

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Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.
For sure I'm gonna count the breaks from now on.

I only used (L) finders a few times, so cant say if it makes a difference.

I'm still tiering up my F-106 (so far only T4) and use the Terramaster 5 when mining for gold now, since I need T6 on the F-106 first to get at a descend depth
 

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They break much faster on (L) Finders.
 

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Maybe they've changed, or maybe they do better on U finders, I think I only tried them on L.

However, I believe there is evidence to show that the tt decay of the finder is calculated into the claim size, so this could change things.
TT of decay is included.

This was shown when trying to find II's ( or might have been I's), very rare with a high decay finder, common with the tt finder.


Rgds

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kingofaces

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TT of decay is included.

This was shown when trying to find II's ( or might have been I's), very rare with a high decay finder, common with the tt finder.


Rgds

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This has come up before, but your case is an anecdote that doesn't account for chance and other potential confounding factors, so best to be cautious about that example. It looks like decay isn't included in TT returns when you record the actual numbers.

I'm still doing a formal statistical comparison of this with two nearly identical finders aside from their decay (F-211 and Ziplex-Z15) alternating between each finder for each ore claim, and there's still no evidence of a difference due to finder decay (F-211 mean claim size = 2.70, Z15 mean claim size = 2.67, p = 0.28 for those familiar with t-tests, ANOVA, etc.). If there was going to be a true difference (that current p-value means the difference between 2.7 and 2.67 is just due to pure chance) we'd actually be trending towards the lower decay finder having a slightly larger claim size.

I'm waiting to burn out the finders I currently have when I'm not doing normal mining, but I'll be posting the complete test later when that happens. It's a bit redundant at this point since I have enough statistical power to detect a difference if there was one, but I figured I'd keep it going awhile longer since this comes up fairly often.
 

Ace Flyster

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This has come up before, but your case is an anecdote that doesn't account for chance and other potential confounding factors, so best to be cautious about that example. It looks like decay isn't included in TT returns when you record the actual numbers.

I'm still doing a formal statistical comparison of this with two nearly identical finders aside from their decay (F-211 and Ziplex-Z15) alternating between each finder for each ore claim, and there's still no evidence of a difference due to finder decay (F-211 mean claim size = 2.70, Z15 mean claim size = 2.67, p = 0.28 for those familiar with t-tests, ANOVA, etc.). If there was going to be a true difference (that current p-value means the difference between 2.7 and 2.67 is just due to pure chance) we'd actually be trending towards the lower decay finder having a slightly larger claim size.

I'm waiting to burn out the finders I currently have when I'm not doing normal mining, but I'll be posting the complete test later when that happens. It's a bit redundant at this point since I have enough statistical power to detect a difference if there was one, but I figured I'd keep it going awhile longer since this comes up fairly often.
When i compared the vrx2k, some years ago against the tt finder, the difference was obvious.

Of course MA could have changed this, but i find that unlikely!


Rgds

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garci

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good advices ;)
nice doc for a tutorial
 
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Hello,

I am miner myself but I would still like more information why you think that finder needs to be completely maxed out. But lets just say you are right. If so, why is there recommended level of profession written on each tool. And there is also SIB. Do you believe that you get smaller claim sizes because of it or maybe you don't find the claim at all?
 

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Hello,

I am miner myself but I would still like more information why you think that finder needs to be completely maxed out. But lets just say you are right. If so, why is there recommended level of profession written on each tool. And there is also SIB. Do you believe that you get smaller claim sizes because of it or maybe you don't find the claim at all?
There is no special advantage to using a maxed finder.

Use whatever finder gives you the average depth you need.
 

LeelooM

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Hello,

I am miner myself but I would still like more information why you think that finder needs to be completely maxed out. But lets just say you are right. If so, why is there recommended level of profession written on each tool. And there is also SIB. Do you believe that you get smaller claim sizes because of it or maybe you don't find the claim at all?
If you didn't maxed out the finder, you can use it and find things, but you will find less. (not smaller claim sizes)

The average depth means you will find stuff -200 and +200 on that depth.

Let's take the finder B35. Average depth is 502,50

In the pic you see I didn't maxed it so it says 444,5/502,50 not much of a difference but still.
Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you have it maxed, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 702,50
Now let's count the -200 and +200 on this finder when you did not maxed it, this means you will find stuff between 302,50 and 644,5, so now your loosing (702,5 minus 644,50 depth) a difference of 58 depth. Claims in that 58 depth you will not find so your loosing peds
Agree it isn't much but doing this over and over again...

SIB means getting more skills so that is positive, but I would go for a better return first, not for skills.
Skills you will need to use higher finders.
But then I ask you again? Why use a higher finder? What are you going to mine?
Look at the economics and MU's first, then go mining

 
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LeelooM

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good advices ;)
nice doc for a tutorial
Thank you very much :)

Still changing/fine tuning it cause some still have questions :)
 
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Dont know from where you found that 200+- m range while I found ores 1000 m deep with f-105 no enhancers. Im lvl 43 prospector 42 surveyor and bought ziplex b40 and have 8/8 uses in prospecting and 7/8 for enmaters deepth of course is not maxed either. I can say that i had profit using it but that doesn't mean anything while way to small sample to draw any conclusions. The question remains do you get worse returns for skill increase gain.

I'm using it mainly for the skill gain. It's worth it? Cant say.

Thanks for replying and helping miners.
 
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LeelooM

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Dont know from where you found that 200+- m range while I found ores 1000 m deep with f-105 no enhancers. Im lvl 43 prospector 42 surveyor and bought ziplex b40 and have 8/8 uses in prospecting and 7/8 for enmaters deepth of course is not maxed either. I can say that i had profit using it but that doesn't mean anything while way to small sample to draw any conclusions. The question remains do you get worse returns for skill increase gain.
It happend to me with the F106 also (with 2 enhancers on it), suddenly finding something way deeper than I should find it, but that was very rare, so I do not count that.
For me it happend not amped, so that might be different also.

The question do you get worse returns ...
I would say yes on less claims, since you loose in depth so less findings.
For skill gain you should get more cause you have SIB on it

For the -200/+200 check your statistics in LBMB or write down what depth your average is and see how deep you find things.
 
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Anyone who wants to do mining should read this!

Ok, let's say:
I started EU long time ago due to attraction towards mining activity.
My background is as a chiken miner, that used to go with heaviest amp my tool could fit and hundreds ped of probes.
I remember been doin 800 ped probes and loosing tnos of money.
Leeloo always been someone to take as inpiration for mining for me.
Recently I wanted to try out mining seriously, with lbml and all necessary features.
Leeloo is for me someone like a sister or a very very dear member of family, she guided me into the correct mining world, and results didnt waited to come!
Her tips significally improved my mining returns, and literally i can say to have found a new way to play the game.

Thanx, big thanx to her for all this!
 

LeelooM

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Added a pic for honeycomb mining
 

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TYVM, great thread

wanted to +rep but still have to spread some reputationnn :)

DRM
 

R4tt3xx

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Very cool guide...

With regards to a mining layout, anything is fine as long as you do not overlap too much.

And here's one of my own personal tips, if the loot sucks, STOP MINING !!! On average you have a 27% chance to find something, if you are mining both ent and ore, the odds increase to 54%. If you miss after your own set amount of attempts, so yourself a favour and STOP MINING !!
 

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On average you have a 27% chance to find something, if you are mining both ent and ore, the odds increase to 54%.!
Um, the odds would be 1-(1-0.27)^2=0.4671 - if there were no correlation between ore and enmat, but there is some, most of the time.

I agree however that one should not respond to crappy loot by pushing harder. :)
 

LeelooM

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Very cool guide...

With regards to a mining layout, anything is fine as long as you do not overlap too much.

And here's one of my own personal tips, if the loot sucks, STOP MINING !!! On average you have a 27% chance to find something, if you are mining both ent and ore, the odds increase to 54%. If you miss after your own set amount of attempts, so yourself a favour and STOP MINING !!
For me at this moment HR doesn't say much anymore.
I still can have a low HR and do profit since there seem to be more multipliers than before, even on runs of 50-100 ped. Had it also when I got 9 NRF in a row, still finished the run nice.

I only do runs for 1 thing so never ores/enm on caly for the same time.
 

R4tt3xx

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For me at this moment HR doesn't say much anymore.
I still can have a low HR and do profit since there seem to be more multipliers than before, even on runs of 50-100 ped. Had it also when I got 9 NRF in a row, still finished the run nice.

I only do runs for 1 thing so never ores/enm on caly for the same time.
Interesting ....

In order to see if I am typing out my @$$, I decided to make a little Excel sheet simulating 50k mining drops at a hitrate of 27.1% just to see how many misses it's possible to get in a row ...

Turns out 20+ is possible if mining a single resource type.

As for hits in a row, again 20+ is possible if mining for 2 out of 3 resource types.

L8R
 

LeelooM

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I tested the honeycomb on FOMA now (enmatter only), cant say much cause it was only 1 dome but the results :

Unamped
Probes used : 79 ped
Decay : 4,54 ped (F106 + 1 enh) looking for azur
So totall costs : 83,54 ped

TT return : 132,70 ped

79 ped in probes so that means 158 drops and I found 8 claims ^^ so a normal HR for foma with 5,06%
Not the place to go mining with amps lol

Friend is testing another dome

So here again, well balanced and as long as you use the honeycomb it should be ok imo.
For towers to get, probably the cycling comes in, but for me I'm already glad I can break even or get some profits (and have fun)
 
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LeelooM

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Expert mining has been added
 

LeelooM

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Superior mining has been added :p
 
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