Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

Status

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
" MA gave you a free Pixie adjusted and a free TT weapon... YOU want a bigger one.... "

No, I want fair return as before and a fair life in VR world, you can buy games for 30 dollars with loads of guns, MA has advertised (and at some point for few years has done) 98% ROI. They have claimed investment. The service should match the payment.


"the value is into the AVATAR"

It is not, 10k peds or 15k peds skills is not matching 200k peds investment
 
Last edited:

messi91

Elite
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Posts
3,146
Location
Medusa Bazaar floor2, shop3
Society
House of Gamers
Avatar Name
Gaina "Messi91" Cristi
MA has advertised (and at some point has done) 98% ROI

You understood that incorrect and you are not the only one.That sentance alone is accurate but over 95% of players miunderstand it mostly because they don't pay attention to every single word but because some of them don't have the experience with game mechanics or being able to connect the dots and understand what Mindark was trying to report.
It is very unfortunate that you've probably learn how the game works from rookie chat or similar and now its almost impossible to connect to the real game, the filters you've installed in your gameplay are probably impossible to be removed by anyone at this point.
Good luck anyway.
 

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
You understood that incorrect and you are not the only one.That sentance alone is accurate but over 95% of players miunderstand it mostly because they don't pay attention to every single word but because some of them don't have the experience with game mechanics or being able to connect the dots and understand what Mindark was trying to report.
It is very unfortunate that you've probably learn how the game works from rookie chat or similar and now its almost impossible to connect to the real game, the filters you've installed in your gameplay are probably impossible to be removed by anyone at this point.
Good luck anyway.

I know it is statistical and some people get big (which levels statistics), but it should level it for players as well in the long run, and it used to do in my case, I used to have 100% returns for the first few years all in all with similar habits, for me it worked as advertised average for some time long with amp and big hunt habits (and big hof), perhaps Loot 2.0 and mining return changes affected it, or maybe MA is somehow deceiving people with high returns at the beginning.

Regardless of complexities and small prints and etc. a business must be fair
and also should resolve misunderstandings and inform clients regarding their "investment" well. Blaming players and serving MA returns (player loss) in short term is not the solution and even hurts MA as well in the long run. So much loss cannot be attributed to just ATHs.

ROI and investment promise aside, even with the strict loss calculations and MU etc., I am back ~50k+ peds given the returns and it is increasing rather than being leveled and made normal statistically.

Recent 3k USD investment in these weeks was gone surprisingly faster (on top of the fast gone thousands in the last 18 months)!

THIS IS NOT NORMAL, OVERALL ROI and FAIRNESS ETC (LONGER DISCUSSIONS) ASIDE.
 
Last edited:

messi91

Elite
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Posts
3,146
Location
Medusa Bazaar floor2, shop3
Society
House of Gamers
Avatar Name
Gaina "Messi91" Cristi
MA is somehow deceiving people with high returns at the beginning.

In order for MA to be deceiving they must say something that guarantee you something else and they never do that and if you feel it that way its because of your expectation.Your expectation and emotion has nothing to do with how the game works and just because at some point they met the result is the same with it it doesnt automatically makes it true every time.
Understand how it works.Prospect information, test them for a long period of time see what you get, try to improve see if that change anything over a long period of time, improve every aspect of your gameplay, set low expectation and gradually increase it once everything goes better and better.
 

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
Reminding improvement idea 1: MA dashboard (returns details and statistics from different viewpoints) for those who have paid over 1k USD is long overdue, such that it helps them track "investment" (and makes MA more responsible about ROI).

Reminding improvement idea 2: eventually gaming habits should not drop ROI below 90 percent.

Reminding improvement idea 3: those waiting for delayed big hofs should get non-tradable time-constrained items worth similar (you always have sort of 90 percent returns or more, 90 percent or more ROI in small durations of hunting/mining/crafting, but not all can be withdrawn). This affects item values, but makes the game more fair (much more important).

Reminding improvement idea 4: court leading to dividing MA share between true investors namely the players (difference between real service value and player loss must be returned in shares)

Reminding improvement idea 5: Please avoid non-reasonable justifications putting burden of a non-reasonable and over-priced business on Entropians.


Thinking: if I get the overdue 55k peds or so big HOF (given the present game mechanics), maybe I buy 20 CLDs and play eco and wait for MA to fix the game. Otherwise going to court to get the 200k peds plus investment interest (maybe in MA shares) seems to be an option towards unreasonably lost ROI. Or maybe I should do it anyway regardless of any big HOF, for all the Entropians, as there may be many people like me? MA seems to belong to the Entropians due to their investment and the CEO should be determined by vote. We need the justice system to regulate greedy VR world kings.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Pi-

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
Any brave souls joining?
Are you afraid it may affect your ROI in the game? ;)
Don't be, justice is worth fighting for.
 

Power

Guardian
Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Posts
285
Location
Canada
Society
Mayhem Inc.
Avatar Name
The Great Adventurer
It sucks but even if the system is holding your cycled peds hostage, it will give it back eventually, either in loot or skills (which I haven't figured out yet if skill bonuses affect loot returns) and because that's coded into the system, it doesn't matter how long it takes them to pay it back, as long as they do at some point...

I agree, it shouldn't take years. They do make money when someone joins, invests, makes bad decisions and leaves because that avatar will never have the chance to reclaim the peds in the system. Then the system, after a couple years or whatever, closes the account and that money is forever in MA's pocket. I personally don't think it's returned to the "loot pool" in any way but I can't be sure.

As for court, with the right argument you could force an audit and depending how the court case goes, you might force them to reveal loot mechanics, which means they'll seek a publication ban on your case or will change the loot algo afterwards.

I also agree the game should be more democratic. That's what I though was going to happen with the "President of VR" and the CLD system. I doubt that control of MA as a business would ever happen. I'm sure you could buy them out and install any system you want... Buyout price? I'm guessing probably around $20-30 mill including all assets and IP but I haven't dug into it lately to have correct numbers. I don't think it would cost too much. Unlikely, I know.

Lastly, as someone else mentioned early on last year in this thread; One reason you may be losing peds is because of the level you are playing the game. I notice the volatility in returns when I'm shooting my big cost weapons and I know it's because I'm playing at $100/he vs playing at $1/hr. That means 100x more volatility. Those $3 dips turn into $300 dips but that also means those $3 Global's turn into $300 ones.

Now, I have a theory which lines up with what you're experiencing.

The game gives you exit opportunities to leave in TT profit, however, you have to be ready and willing to call it quits at that time or wait however long it may take until the next opportunity arises. What are those opportunities? 5 digit HOFs (that can be ATH). When the system pays you this, it's actually your over 100% return. Think of loot like a Sine Wave where the baseline is what we the return % is your skills/gear allow and loot goes up and down over that line but generally averages out to it. The 5 digit HOF is a peak over that baseline and it when you can safely consider yourself in TT profit for that activity, although, I'm not sure if it's by profession, the entire game itself or possibly by each mob/resource/blueprint.

When you say you hit a 14k HOF, you're right to think the system is going to take that back. At least until your returns average out to what your skills/gear determine. You'll get another one, eventually, if you play long enough and are consistent. I'm sure there are other things that you can look to take advantage of, such as loot waves but you gotta put in the time to understand how all that works and my post is long enough already :)
 

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
It sucks but even if the system is holding your cycled peds hostage, it will give it back eventually, either in loot or skills (which I haven't figured out yet if skill bonuses affect loot returns) and because that's coded into the system, it doesn't matter how long it takes them to pay it back, as long as they do at some point...

I agree, it shouldn't take years. They do make money when someone joins, invests, makes bad decisions and leaves because that avatar will never have the chance to reclaim the peds in the system. Then the system, after a couple years or whatever, closes the account and that money is forever in MA's pocket. I personally don't think it's returned to the "loot pool" in any way but I can't be sure.

As for court, with the right argument you could force an audit and depending how the court case goes, you might force them to reveal loot mechanics, which means they'll seek a publication ban on your case or will change the loot algo afterwards.

I also agree the game should be more democratic. That's what I though was going to happen with the "President of VR" and the CLD system. I doubt that control of MA as a business would ever happen. I'm sure you could buy them out and install any system you want... Buyout price? I'm guessing probably around $20-30 mill including all assets and IP but I haven't dug into it lately to have correct numbers. I don't think it would cost too much. Unlikely, I know.

Lastly, as someone else mentioned early on last year in this thread; One reason you may be losing peds is because of the level you are playing the game. I notice the volatility in returns when I'm shooting my big cost weapons and I know it's because I'm playing at $100/he vs playing at $1/hr. That means 100x more volatility. Those $3 dips turn into $300 dips but that also means those $3 Global's turn into $300 ones.

Now, I have a theory which lines up with what you're experiencing.

The game gives you exit opportunities to leave in TT profit, however, you have to be ready and willing to call it quits at that time or wait however long it may take until the next opportunity arises. What are those opportunities? 5 digit HOFs (that can be ATH). When the system pays you this, it's actually your over 100% return. Think of loot like a Sine Wave where the baseline is what we the return % is your skills/gear allow and loot goes up and down over that line but generally averages out to it. The 5 digit HOF is a peak over that baseline and it when you can safely consider yourself in TT profit for that activity, although, I'm not sure if it's by profession, the entire game itself or possibly by each mob/resource/blueprint.

When you say you hit a 14k HOF, you're right to think the system is going to take that back. At least until your returns average out to what your skills/gear determine. You'll get another one, eventually, if you play long enough and are consistent. I'm sure there are other things that you can look to take advantage of, such as loot waves but you gotta put in the time to understand how all that works and my post is long enough already :)

" It sucks but even if the system is holding your cycled peds hostage, it will give it back eventually, either in loot or skills (which I haven't figured out yet if skill bonuses affect loot returns) and because that's coded into the system, it doesn't matter how long it takes them to pay it back, as long as they do at some point..."

" When you say you hit a 14k HOF, you're right to think the system is going to take that back. At least until your returns average out to what your skills/gear determine. You'll get another one, eventually, if you play long enough and are consistent."



Estimated numbers: Paid 2k USDs, system returned and ROI was 100 percent (in 2017), spent another 9 x 2k USDs, return did not happen but quite partially (11k peds loot and a 16k peds ring which are all gone now) ! The last of those 9 rounds was only days ago (20k peds gone even faster) ! The 100 percent ROI is less than 10 percent (skills included) now all in all and around 5 percent for the last round. Is there any eventual 100% or even 25% ROI return? (50k to 200k super HOF, if I do not pay anymore!)

index.php


MA behaves as if not paying them is the best idea! So sustainable!
 
Last edited:

SuperKanjo

Elite
Joined
May 30, 2006
Posts
4,004
Location
Holland
Society
Kaos
Avatar Name
Janko SuperKanjo vd Haak
I have a feeling you are completely off with your expectations from this game, furthermore you want to play for the big rewards but don't want to cycle enough to let it even out. I will quote 5$ again, he already posted but i think you should really read the bankroll management link he posted.

That's some boring ass shit.

Some yall folks in here need to learn some math and read up on bankroll management. You want safety and not take any risks but want all the reward not realizing that it would also apply to everyone.. which means there is very little incentive for anything to be of value.

Additionally, some of you need to realize that Return % and ROI are two different calculations.

I would recommend lowering your stakes, try to understand what you can expect first before you move up to the bigger stakes again.
 

Crabby

Provider
Joined
Sep 29, 2020
Posts
102
Location
Your nightmares
Avatar Name
Arkady Crabby Adame
By the way, cost per hour for a boring game with repeated bankruptcies is meaningless,

To be honest if youre going bankrupt, especially multiple times, I think youre doing stuff you can't afford to do long enough to better ensure a desired return %.
 

Aloisius

Stalker
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Posts
1,933
Location
Fort Fury
Society
Natural Born Killers
Avatar Name
Jo Aloisius Smith
OP may as well be asking for current depo to be spread out in the loot of the older current players. Bigger depo = bigger loots. I think bernie madeoff with the plan!!
 

Alukat123

Stalker
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Posts
1,847
Avatar Name
Son Alukat Goku
To be honest if youre going bankrupt, especially multiple times, I think youre doing stuff you can't afford to do long enough to better ensure a desired return %.

but if you got several thousand clicks/drops with 33-80% TT-return then the issue is in the system....
a bankroll of 5-10k PED should be more than enough for sub 1 PED stuff, especially when you get quite a lot of MU from sales.
 

Msturlese

Dominant
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Posts
448
Location
italy
Society
Dirty Dingos
Avatar Name
Marco Killy Stur
Arm, please let's start witn Correct Wording. ROI = RETURN on investment

ROI IS NOT LOOT VALUE / PED PURCHASED

To calculate ROI, the benefit (or return) of an investment is divided by the cost of the investment. The result is expressed as a percentage or a ratio.

in this case the ROI formula is (LOOTVALUE - PED PURCHASED)) / PED PURCHASED

so i go back to my message (avatar skioll value + equip market value + storage + ped card - pedpurchased) / Ped purchased is the ROI

the statement 98% of ped are returned in the form of loot (Statistical average,, i accept it as true, for some reason that i discussed in other threads)

The result is: EXPECT TO PLAY WITH A LOSING PROPOSITION OF 2% ROI

here comes second statement: You can not beat game (it is EVIDENT that there is a HARD CAP of return at 99% that means as you convert you go max to 99.99

and probabaly to allow MA to pay for development, servers and staff the cap is 98.5 AVERAGE

i kill 1 to 3 ped mobs and loot randomizer give me a good one every 200 to 300 in the form of a 30 to 90x multiplier..... statistics

Sorry Messi but you posted a Despletor rank 25 codex .... each of those is 26 PED..... the whale takes 20x my risk of a bad loot string
and statistically NOT every 200 to 300 ped he gets a fat loot... he gets every 5000 to 7500 ped cycled.
if i ask him "messi hos is average loot on 25 ped mobs? I AM SURE THAT THE ANSWER IS "A delusionary 13 ped for most of them".... same as my 45 pec per argo

i have small esperience in mining but i usually tell mates when the wave starts and the collected heaps of belkar and alternative that have good markup.

when u will sue MA, please use correct words :)
apart jokes i am experiencing a ROI of about 1% per year that is my formula above is over PED paid. ...... it is a VALUATION, not a market value.

if i am not miustaken MA will in case of closing the game return the TT value of all..... MU is player perception
i am sure they have very good lawyer and a White Paper on loot system ready to be disclosed to a court that will make your requests rejected

if ou say my ROI is 5% intending i lost 95% of my ped card..... that is UNEXPLAINABLE to me if not with martingale factor

each cycle you loose average 2%... iif you play a costly way in term of risk and your returns are 10% loss per cycle
then your martingale is 100*0.9=90%*0.9=81*0.9=72.9*0.9=65.61*0.9 =59.04
in 5 rounds you lost 40%..... that is not clear maybe in the 98% loot to ped ratio but someone has 90%... and it leads to ruin... according to rules
and according to contract

read carefully Messi statements... between lines there are very useful informations.... hidden in full light
When the Guro points finger to the moon.. wise man look in the sky.. someone look at the finger.
 

B-K

Guardian
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Posts
276
Location
Belgium
Society
Soldiers of Redemtion
Avatar Name
Little black-kobolt Star
if i am not miustaken MA will in case of closing the game return the TT value of all..... MU is player perception
I think that changed too only what you deposited in the last 6 months or something similar.
 

Geo

Prowler
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
1,215
Location
Space
Society
Victory
Avatar Name
George Geo Clone
I think that changed too only what you deposited in the last 6 months or something similar.

If an incident were to take place, MA, if acknowledged (in a court of law), will pay no more than the amount of PED you have Purchased in the last 6 months. This would not include buying Strongboxes, Keys etc. from the webshop.
But of course it could be settled for less or it could be nothing. You still have to cover your own legal fees and there is the possibility MA could counter sue you, to cover theirs.

MindArk’s total liability for all damages, losses and causes of action and for all costs and expenses which may arise under the agreement with You shall for each incidence, if acknowledged, under no event, exceed the total amount that You have purchased PEDs for during the six months period prior to the incident.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: B-K

Geo

Prowler
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
1,215
Location
Space
Society
Victory
Avatar Name
George Geo Clone
if i am not miustaken MA will in case of closing the game return the TT value of all..... MU is player perception


MindArk shall in no event be liable for (i) any indirect, incidental, special, consequential, punitive or tort damages, nor (ii) for any loss of use or data (including, but not limited to Your Entropia Universe User Account, Avatar skills and/or Virtual Items) or for lost profits of any kind (whether direct, indirect or consequential). MindArk is in no event liable for any services provided by a third party.

MindArk is not liable for any disruptions, delays or failures to perform in Entropia Universe, including any damages, losses or causes of action, which this may cause the User.

MindArk reserves the right to interrupt the services available via Entropia Universe and/or the operation of the Entropia Universe System with or without prior notice and for any reason. You agree that MindArk will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by interruption of the Entropia Universe, delay or failure to perform.


I recommend everyone to read the EULA rather than speculating.
You are purchasing the product of PED to play the game and MA is willing to buy it back, but have no obligations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: B-K

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
I have a feeling you are completely off with your expectations from this game, furthermore you want to play for the big rewards but don't want to cycle enough to let it even out. I will quote 5$ again, he already posted but i think you should really read the bankroll management link he posted.



I would recommend lowering your stakes, try to understand what you can expect first before you move up to the bigger stakes again.

The issue is: It was fine with 20k peds, it was not fine with the 180k peds after it
The issue is: 200k peds should give you more ped cycling, and the present cycle seems big enough (but maybe not according to the new game specifics, or possibility of avatar discrimination)
 

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
If an incident were to take place, MA, if acknowledged (in a court of law), will pay no more than the amount of PED you have Purchased in the last 6 months. This would not include buying Strongboxes, Keys etc. from the webshop.
But of course it could be settled for less or it could be nothing. You still have to cover your own legal fees and there is the possibility MA could counter sue you, to cover theirs.

MindArk’s total liability for all damages, losses and causes of action and for all costs and expenses which may arise under the agreement with You shall for each incidence, if acknowledged, under no event, exceed the total amount that You have purchased PEDs for during the six months period prior to the incident.


What many people don't know is: not all of what written in T&C is legally enforceable, a business must be reasonable
(in many cases the onus is on the writer of T&C to prove it is reasonable)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pi-

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
Arm, please let's start witn Correct Wording. ROI = RETURN on investment

ROI IS NOT LOOT VALUE / PED PURCHASED

To calculate ROI, the benefit (or return) of an investment is divided by the cost of the investment. The result is expressed as a percentage or a ratio.

in this case the ROI formula is (LOOTVALUE - PED PURCHASED)) / PED PURCHASED

so i go back to my message (avatar skioll value + equip market value + storage + ped card - pedpurchased) / Ped purchased is the ROI

the statement 98% of ped are returned in the form of loot (Statistical average,, i accept it as true, for some reason that i discussed in other threads)

The result is: EXPECT TO PLAY WITH A LOSING PROPOSITION OF 2% ROI

here comes second statement: You can not beat game (it is EVIDENT that there is a HARD CAP of return at 99% that means as you convert you go max to 99.99

and probabaly to allow MA to pay for development, servers and staff the cap is 98.5 AVERAGE

i kill 1 to 3 ped mobs and loot randomizer give me a good one every 200 to 300 in the form of a 30 to 90x multiplier..... statistics

Sorry Messi but you posted a Despletor rank 25 codex .... each of those is 26 PED..... the whale takes 20x my risk of a bad loot string
and statistically NOT every 200 to 300 ped he gets a fat loot... he gets every 5000 to 7500 ped cycled.
if i ask him "messi hos is average loot on 25 ped mobs? I AM SURE THAT THE ANSWER IS "A delusionary 13 ped for most of them".... same as my 45 pec per argo

i have small esperience in mining but i usually tell mates when the wave starts and the collected heaps of belkar and alternative that have good markup.

when u will sue MA, please use correct words :)
apart jokes i am experiencing a ROI of about 1% per year that is my formula above is over PED paid. ...... it is a VALUATION, not a market value.

if i am not miustaken MA will in case of closing the game return the TT value of all..... MU is player perception
i am sure they have very good lawyer and a White Paper on loot system ready to be disclosed to a court that will make your requests rejected

if ou say my ROI is 5% intending i lost 95% of my ped card..... that is UNEXPLAINABLE to me if not with martingale factor

each cycle you loose average 2%... iif you play a costly way in term of risk and your returns are 10% loss per cycle
then your martingale is 100*0.9=90%*0.9=81*0.9=72.9*0.9=65.61*0.9 =59.04
in 5 rounds you lost 40%..... that is not clear maybe in the 98% loot to ped ratio but someone has 90%... and it leads to ruin... according to rules
and according to contract

read carefully Messi statements... between lines there are very useful informations.... hidden in full light
When the Guro points finger to the moon.. wise man look in the sky.. someone look at the finger.

Regarding the exact use of ROI you are right, I meant total return (earning) on investment and it is not the usual intended sense of ROI. And with my definition, it is strange given the past experience when my total return was OK.

The system seems to have changed behavior or seems to have practically taken me/us in with some sort of direct or indirect misinformation and Messi is right that some of the widely held perceptions are not right, but MA seems to have been earning from the mis-perceptions and eve seems to try to keep things ambiguous which seems illegal when they get 20k USD of yours for this service.

There seems to have been important changes to return formulae affecting unfairly a group of fun-seeking players (I am used to much calculation and complexity in my job, but this was and is a game for me, not another job. It needs to be fair and fun. I am not after gambling and winning big prizes, I am after fair VR life with fair return and preservation on my investment and it means something like: MA, directly or indirectly, should not take more than 10 percent. That is still 2k USD, much more than the share of resources I consume as one player).
 
Last edited:

Arm

Guardian
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Posts
219
Location
Calypso
Society
Starfleet Command
The game behaves the way it does, this is obvious, the issue is: it should not
 

Geo

Prowler
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
1,215
Location
Space
Society
Victory
Avatar Name
George Geo Clone
The game behaves the way it does, this is obvious, the issue is: it should not
Says who?
You clearly don’t know what you are talking about and are just making assumptions.
I assume you are a grown adult.
Read the EULA legal contract agreement you agree to every time you log in.
Take responsibility for your own choices and know the risk.
Do not spend more money on a game than you are not willing to lose.
Good luck.
 

Deemer

Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
656
I didn't know I needed legal knowledge to play a game. But I'm sure when the contract is given as an excuse, the things doesn't look very good.
 

Deemer

Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
656
I don't trust anyone in this game. It is full of hypocrisy and lies. So I just looked at the statistics of mesi in EL for about 2 weeks. The mob that catches and the globals that it takes from it.

The main impact on hunting has the dynamics.
If the multis are sparse and small, I just change the place.

I never kill a mob more than 30 hits.
I always expect an unannounced change on Tuesday.

For example i kill puny mobs *20 than their HP. Ie. 100 HP mob 2k starting. This allows me to stop at the most convenient moment if I see that the return is not good. But when it's good, I can spend a very long time there.



2021-04-08 10:44 Entropia Universe Support:

Hi Deemer,

Thank you for contacting us.

Your real balance is positive, meaning you have earner more than you have spent. You have about X PED on your PED card and the TT value for your items are 805. We can't say how much your items are worth on the market.

Since there's nothing more to add, we will close this case. Please do not hesitate to file a new support case if you have any further inquiries.

Kind regards,
X - Entropia Universe Support
 

kingofaces

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Posts
957
Location
US
Avatar Name
Tony KingofAces Hans
There seems to have been important changes to return formulae affecting unfairly a group of fun-seeking players . . .

Based on this and your EL profile, it looks like this is the problem, at least from a mining perspective. If you’re going to use big amps and expect to maintain net profitability, you need to watch your play style, and that gets stricter the more you increase amp size. The math behind amps means it’s much easier to lose a higher percentage of ped (not just raw amount) as amp size increases due to NRFs. This means if someone blows all their ped on high MU amps and keeps mining in areas with low TT returns (even moreso indoors), they shouldn’t act surprised when they lose the this much. Risky behavior means a higher chance of big losses.

Even outdoors on Caly a few weeks ago, I noticed I was getting only 66% TT in a few areas. Normally when you see something like that, you stop mining there and go somewhere else to avoid losing ped. Trying to horse the mining system by continuing to mine in an area like that never ends well on the average.

As others have pointed out, it looks like you have very skewed expectations, especially when mentioning how much ped you put in. Amount cycled is largely irrelevant in this instance when high-risk behavior is involved. Everything I’ve seen written in this thread points to not adapting to fluctuations in the mining system, continuing as if everything was the same, then complaining about losing ped as if it were unexpected.

When MA gave some stats awhile back saying hunters on average got around 97ish percent average TT, your results are actually very much in line with that. Many people misunderstand that to think that means everyone should get around that much if they cycle enough. That is a common misconception of statistics that usually is addressed in any basic stats course. Search for terms like left skewed graphs to get some of the concepts. At a 97% overall average return in the player base, the means some average slightly over 100% TT, while others will be at the other end of the tail under 90%. Someone at even 50% TT is very much part of that upper 90% average. Much of that is randomness, but the more extreme ends of the tails you go, the more play style/experience plays a role in whether someone profits TT-wise or loses a lot.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Geo

Alukat123

Stalker
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Posts
1,847
Avatar Name
Son Alukat Goku
If the multis are sparse and small, I just change the place.

That's what's bad game design, if something like that holds true...

The results of tt-return should be independant on day/hour/month/mob, that would be good and fair to everyone game design.
 

Deemer

Alpha
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Posts
656
That's what's bad game design, if something like that holds true...

The results of tt-return should be independant on day/hour/month/mob, that would be good and fair to everyone game design.

This is the best design that can exist.

The problem is not in the dynamics. Sooner or later everyone will become level 100 and without understanding the game you will be winning.
The problem is in a market environment that offers nothing even for those who have reached level 80+.
 

Alukat123

Stalker
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Posts
1,847
Avatar Name
Son Alukat Goku
This is the best design that can exist.

no, if there's only 1-2 hours a day where loot is okay and at all the other hours loot is terrible is the worst game design...

And i don't get why you think an extremely bad and unfair game design would be the best....
 
Last edited:

Msturlese

Dominant
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Posts
448
Location
italy
Society
Dirty Dingos
Avatar Name
Marco Killy Stur
game is not pure luck, is not random, it is about understadning the system and "go with the flow"

this is my last poston the matter, there is no communication

your belief that "MA stole my money " allows no other explanation

get the leftover choose a level 2 to 5 monster, kill 200k ped of those (60.000.000 HP) and track the loot value

i would say exarosaurs or small fouls west of troy or the molisk ramp near the megavolt or small berycled at claw plateau

i am sure that you will have markup and about same amount and probably repeat 10 on codex

and a huge amount of skill points.

and so many kills (400.000 of the same monster) allow the randomizer to explore all the possible instanfces many times

big is not better, just funnier (did i really write this?) :)
 

Geo

Prowler
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
1,215
Location
Space
Society
Victory
Avatar Name
George Geo Clone
no, if there's only 1-2 hours a day where loot is okay and at all the other hours loot is terrible is the worst game design...

And i don't get why you think an extremely bad and unfair game design would be the best....

I think you misunderstand. What Deemer is saying, I also believe to be true.

If an area or activity is giving poor average returns, then switch to something else and test the waters again later.
Unless you have the bank roll to stay there and see it through the rough waters to ride the next wave.
But you could end up still paying for it in the end.

This system is only unfair to botters or people who do not actively pay attention to their loots and/or rely on the system alone.

I believe it to be the activity, area or mob that returns 95%~ and over an extended period the playerbases expected returns should reflect that.
It is your gear and skills after the fact that determine what % of those returns and item composition you can acquire.
But looking for higher MU along the way will help to recover some losses.
 

Alukat123

Stalker
Joined
Jun 20, 2017
Posts
1,847
Avatar Name
Son Alukat Goku
This system is only unfair to botters or people who do not actively pay attention to their loots and/or rely on the system alone.

No, the system is unfair because of it's time based and the server limited amount stuff.
The month before i got a new job, i was playing for about 30 minutes a day (at the same specific time), crafted materials worth about 100 PED TT, lost 6-20 PED TT, but that was okay, because at the end of the month, with this method i made about 6k PED profit.... (that's 6k PED profit for 15 hours played).

So, considering there can only drop x within y hours, that's when the game becomes very unfair.
Me and some other people just looted all which could be looted during that window as soon as the window opened, which just made it impossible for a lot of people to even get a chance for that stuff... especially for those who simply can't play when the window opens.

Denying people the chance for certain loot just because they can't play at a specific time is just unfair.

Same applies to tt-returns, can't play at a certain time, tt-return is gonna suck.

That's just terrible game design.
 
Status
Top