Suggestion: Loot 3.0 ideas

Alukat123

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I never said it returns should be 66-75%. What i meant with that comment is that you need to loose some peds to get a global/hof.
Constant high returns will be the end of that.
if the target return is 95% TT-return and that constant is high return is 90%, then there will be 5% which can go to the global/hofing segment.
So your statement is just false.

Also, theres mobs/crafts/mining amps which garantuee a global on kill, success, hit...
and then there's indoor mining/condition crafting...

so there's no need to make the game terrible for people who don't give a f*** about the global animation...
 
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MikeH

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if the target return is 95% TT-return and that constant is high return is 90%, then there will be 5% which can go to the global/hofing segment.
So your statement is just false.

Also, theres mobs/crafts/mining amps which garantuee a global on kill, success, hit...
and then there's indoor mining/condition crafting...

so there's no need to make the game terrible for people who don't give a f*** about the global animation...
If a mob costs 5 ped to kill and it gives 90% all the time before it gives a global to get you to 95% , i was just trying to imagine how many kills will that need and how often i will get global and will there be a hof anytime ? Carry on the discussion :)
 

Alukat123

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If a mob costs 5 ped to kill and it gives 90% all the time before it gives a global to get you to 95% , i was just trying to imagine how many kills will that need and how often i will get global and will there be a hof anytime ?
global 200 kills. Is that really too much time to you? :unsure:
before 2.0 it was like that, at least for me, sure i did get globals only every 2-3 months but it was fine, it was about chasing some rare drops and MU and not about praying that some global/hof appears.. was so much better...

These days it's mainly about praying for global/hof , because if not getting one, then you just know it's gonna be terrible, even with looting something rare that has high MU.... sure there should be room for globals and hofs, but they shouldn't be mandatory, MA gone too far in terms of importance of globals/hofs.
 
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Arm

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It's so you can expierience getting a global/hof. If you have constant +90% return say byebye to globals ;)
No, 10% and 7% are still high enough for rewards, and yes, less frequently, but it won't create several victims for one rewarded player.
 

Arm

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Sure,but then they will be alot less frequent and alot smaller.
Then you'll be happy and another player will start complaining about how he is getting less globals.
Whatever MA will do some will be happy and some will be mad.
And yes, i made loot 2.0 work for me so i'm good with it. Have you actually tryed?
Maybe you are just the lucky one, and the expense is paid by **several** others.
 

Arm

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So as to put my money were my mouth is. (hope thats the right way to say it)

Maybe a public log is your trick of success ;)
 

Arm

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These days apparently we have more "victims" and the extra globals take care of "some" of them to "some" extent (and perhaps takes care of open logs which can encourage others to feel positive about the game?)

Who knows.
 

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By the way, had I told you that in the previous system at some point my net worth was more than the deposit? May mean nothing but chance (or MA being kind to you at the beginning to make you trust them and pay more in future based on a the perception?), and now my net worth is worse than ~ 1/6 of the paid in amount. If many people provide information we may have better analysis. At present, apparently a ~25k+ hof can make my statistics look normal given the current system and formula, and it may take aaages.

From my Entropia Life page:

Hunting:
Total Loot: 180 541 PED
Hunting Rank: 260 of 4 151

Mining:
Total Loot: 207 692 PED
Mining Rank: 180 of 1 208

Paid in ~10k Euros (about half in the last 14 months), Now worth: ~1.6k Euros including skills (!!!) ,
Fact 1: 21k of rings won and fed into the game on top of deposit
Fact 2: among my non-economical hunting gears: a long range ML45 tier 6 with enhancers and Perseus armor , lvl ~ 55-62 BLP sniper

Hunting gear for me: should eventually provide ~ 85% - 95% return
Mining gear and FOMA habit: should eventually provide ~ 70% - 80% return (this is intentional)

If others provide info such as the above, we can do good analysis.
 
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yeeck

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People think simple things regarding the statistics and risk of ruin and chances are overlooked. No. The lack of transparency at the beginning and the "victim" business model and the aages it takes in the present system to make up return is something bad which many players emphasize should be changed.

The statistics say you have a 50% return while even with those equipments it should be 75% to 90% depending on what has been done. The system takes ages to make up for some of that and the rest it gives to few players as ATH to advertise big wins.

Understand that a boring and time consuming and victim-based business model is not fair and also not the best MA can come up with. This is not about obvious things some players mention (and thank you for trying to provide the info.).

This is about transforming a business model to a more fair and more fun one, attracting much more players.

Have anyone share with you, how to predict the good or bad loots return?
Back to 6-8 years ago, it was something I did tryout (suggest by difference players) and I realise that all statistics and loots theory are useless to me.

Everyone is boosting over their 90%+ loots return in the forum.
I tell myself I should do the opposite thingy, whining about my 60%+ loots return (true facts).

When they realised that I depo, they suggest some expensive gears.
I tell myself that I am not going to stress myself paying high MU gears, hunting everyday and hoping one day I will breakeven.
So, I waited for years, hoping someone will sell lower MU to me.

I don't depo anymore and trying to survive in-game everyday now till I spent everything.
The new Loot 2.0 do give a better loots return. Don't get a wrong idea. You don't profiting but you will be able to play longer.

But if you do accidently profit 10k peds today, just remember that, there are players out there already lost 10k ped.
Here is the thing you should think. How long will this kind of gaming relationship/community will last.
 

yeeck

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obviously, why else would there be days or hours where the game even sucks away hundreds of ped on small stuff...
i don't get why MA still hasn't removed those 66-75% TT-return periods...
I am sure MA is not alone on deciding everything.
Yes, I agreed with you, definitely sucks.
But you have not discuss on the worst part of loots return yet...
 

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Never been a hardcore hunter, but i have been hunting throughout most of PE/EU existance in very casual way.

I really like the new way armors work, and the decay is returned through loot.

But I do not enjoy the very fluctuating returns of today. I mostly do 5-700 ped hunting sessions on mid level mobs. Sometimes a small profit, mostly a smaller loss, but fairly regulary i see 60-70% returns. When i hunted 1 - 1,5 hours and it turns out to have costed more than a ticket with soda and popcorn to a 2 hour movie, I can get pissed. Its just not good enough. And it is wrong having to cycle 10k ped just to hit average return.
 

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Have anyone share with you, how to predict the good or bad loots return?
Back to 6-8 years ago, it was something I did tryout (suggest by difference players) and I realise that all statistics and loots theory are useless to me.

Everyone is boosting over their 90%+ loots return in the forum.
I tell myself I should do the opposite thingy, whining about my 60%+ loots return (true facts).

When they realised that I depo, they suggest some expensive gears.
I tell myself that I am not going to stress myself paying high MU gears, hunting everyday and hoping one day I will breakeven.
So, I waited for years, hoping someone will sell lower MU to me.

I don't depo anymore and trying to survive in-game everyday now till I spent everything.
The new Loot 2.0 do give a better loots return. Don't get a wrong idea. You don't profiting but you will be able to play longer.

But if you do accidently profit 10k peds today, just remember that, there are players out there already lost 10k ped.
Here is the thing you should think. How long will this kind of gaming relationship/community will last.
Thanks, the main issue is: game should be improved and MA "victim business model" transformed.

About the other issue: Deposited 500 Euros, did hunting and went mining, in mining, one round of ~100% return and one ~30%, average ~65% (from one point of view, and less actually as they multiply), while it should be ~80% given the gear tax etc. . It seems that the game holds these extra losses for aaages.
 

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Never been a hardcore hunter, but i have been hunting throughout most of PE/EU existance in very casual way.

I really like the new way armors work, and the decay is returned through loot.

But I do not enjoy the very fluctuating returns of today. I mostly do 5-700 ped hunting sessions on mid level mobs. Sometimes a small profit, mostly a smaller loss, but fairly regulary i see 60-70% returns. When i hunted 1 - 1,5 hours and it turns out to have costed more than a ticket with soda and popcorn to a 2 hour movie, I can get pissed. Its just not good enough. And it is wrong having to cycle 10k ped just to hit average return.
Yes, armor decay improvement is good in Loot 2.0.

I have cycled 400k hunting and mining and have not hit near average all in all !

The 1 USD per hour idea of MA is not a good idea, as for boring wait in hunting and mining it is not worth 1 usd per hour, while for example when you see somewhere like volcano cave for the first time it is worth 10 usd per hour.
 

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The Halloween Mayhem 2020 return looks extremely stupid !

The rest on Calypso more or less similar !

Such as Leviathan giving 1.9 peds. less than 60 percents return etc. It would be normal if you could go above your gear percents all in all for the ~400k cycled, but it has been average and bad and very bad in the long term cycles in the last 2 or 3 years. HOFs making up a fraction of the extra loss all in all and then the game swallows it again as well !!

In my first two years, in the previous loot system, it was different.
 
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Arm

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Above all that, the victim business model is a loser business model in the long run with few happy clients and many angry clients feeling robbed.

Many people would pay in less, or would stop paying in, and some would go to court.
 

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Above all that, the victim business model is a loser business model in the long run with few happy clients and many angry clients feeling robbed.

Many people would pay in less, or would stop paying in, and some would go to court.
Each loses what it can afford. Whatever they do with the loot system, the success or failure will have and exponential effect, resulting in you losing fast or wining consistently. Your purpose should be to understand what you are doing, how the game works and how you can play to break even. Understand that doing random things with no strategy will be expensive. Set a target. Do something to test if it works. If your results are bad, stop doing what you were doing and do something else. Change strategy.
You will find that the things that are profitable in game are not always fun and require planning. For fun, you pay. To make a profit you need to provide a service of some kind. Even if you are a hunter or a miner, the way you hunt or mine is related to the market, supply and demand, markup on stuff and whatever else. Whatever the loot system may be, there will always be a cost the player base needs to pay, so most people will lose money or the company will fail. You don't have to be a part of "most people".
Think before you shoot.
 

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Each loses what it can afford. Whatever they do with the loot system, the success or failure will have and exponential effect, resulting in you losing fast or wining consistently. Your purpose should be to understand what you are doing, how the game works and how you can play to break even. Understand that doing random things with no strategy will be expensive. Set a target. Do something to test if it works. If your results are bad, stop doing what you were doing and do something else. Change strategy.
You will find that the things that are profitable in game are not always fun and require planning. For fun, you pay. To make a profit you need to provide a service of some kind. Even if you are a hunter or a miner, the way you hunt or mine is related to the market, supply and demand, markup on stuff and whatever else. Whatever the loot system may be, there will always be a cost the player base needs to pay, so most people will lose money or the company will fail. You don't have to be a part of "most people".
Think before you shoot.
The whole "Think before you shoot." part actually used to be by far my most favorite part of the game.
However, with the extremely shrapnel heavy loot distribution nowadays I find it quite hard to still find something to hunt.
Would you say there is still a selection of mobs available to hunt with mid level gear that covers TT loss with MU?

I tried Caperons, since they were sometimes recommended here for MU, but MU was pretty much a distater, at least for the young ones.
I'm thinking of going to Arkadia, or another planet to hunt, because there just doesn't seem to be any MU to loot on Caly?
 

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Would you say there is still a selection of mobs available to hunt with mid level gear that covers TT loss with MU?
I do not know how loot system works. No one knows. If nothing works, maybe hunting is just a bad idea and you should try something else.
In my post, I said that you should try different things and stop doing what fails. Use all the options that are available.

Since I do not know how the loot system works, I would start with the assumption that for success you need to be very specific in what you do. Pick on people who claim to be successful. Just remember that many will claim to be successful, but in fact lose a lot of money. However, is cheaper than experimenting from 0 on your own on everything.

On the other hand, asking people, will make you play with whatever bad ideas they have, do things people think are good but actually are not. You should question every assumption everyone has about anything in the game.

When you experiment something new, do it in a responsible way. Play at a level where you can shoot or drop bombs or craft stuff for about 40 hours without having to sell your loot. You need a bankroll in order to do any meaningful experiment. That means that you need a lot of money to play at a high level. Probably a lot more than you can imagine. But the responsible thing to do is to play at a cost that allows you to experiment. Stay at low dps. Drop without amp.... etc.

After about 40 hours of doing whatever you are doing, you can count what you spent and compare with what you got. If is bad, do something else. By 40 hours I mean constant use of whatever system you plan to use. Chatting and looking around does not count as gameplay.
 

yeeck

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I do not know how loot system works. No one knows. If nothing works, maybe hunting is just a bad idea and you should try something else.
In my post, I said that you should try different things and stop doing what fails. Use all the options that are available.

....
You are kind to write everything here in details.
For your info, most of the players already experienced and knew the outcomes.
 

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For your info, most of the players already experienced and knew the outcomes.
Most people did and most people did it wrong or did not knew how to interpret the data, because most people fail and lose money. I am not saying that if you do it like I said you will do better than them. You will be limited by your budget, your preconceptions and your intellect, as all people are. Most people do fail. Those who are successful are very smart or very lucky. Luck tends to run out eventually. Given enough time, the lucky ones end up broke.
 

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Each loses what it can afford. Whatever they do with the loot system, the success or failure will have and exponential effect, resulting in you losing fast or wining consistently. Your purpose should be to understand what you are doing, how the game works and how you can play to break even. Understand that doing random things with no strategy will be expensive. Set a target. Do something to test if it works. If your results are bad, stop doing what you were doing and do something else. Change strategy.
You will find that the things that are profitable in game are not always fun and require planning. For fun, you pay. To make a profit you need to provide a service of some kind. Even if you are a hunter or a miner, the way you hunt or mine is related to the market, supply and demand, markup on stuff and whatever else. Whatever the loot system may be, there will always be a cost the player base needs to pay, so most people will lose money or the company will fail. You don't have to be a part of "most people".
Think before you shoot.

Another routine comment, but thanks.

1. Whatever you do in the game you should not lose more than 10 percent of what you have paid in and winning big can be associated to that as well.

2. Too many people are losing too much, and the game is too greedy.

3. You say: " You will find that the things that are profitable in game are not always fun and require planning. For fun, you pay."
It should be fair pay for that fun.

4. More clarity is needed and it should be *from the beginning* on the present system.
 
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MikeH

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1. Whatever you do in the game you should not lose more than 10 percent of what you have paid in and winning big can be associated to that as well.
So how much a non depositor can loose ?
 

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Most people did and most people did it wrong or did not knew how to interpret the data, because most people fail and lose money. I am not saying that if you do it like I said you will do better than them. You will be limited by your budget, your preconceptions and your intellect, as all people are. Most people do fail. Those who are successful are very smart or very lucky. Luck tends to run out eventually. Given enough time, the lucky ones end up broke.
This game is mostly not about being smart, it is about tedious work and about being among the few lucky or many losers (PED-wise).

And if the only aim is to play without losing peds, it is possible (hunt limited punies with very efficient gun and walk and ...), but what kind of game it is then? The game is too greedy when you try to play normally and have bit of fun.

It also deceives you at the beginning.
 
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Arm

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Question: is posting positive comments here or keeping public mining and hunting logs part of being smart in the game? A greedy game would value that!? ;)
In that case, it would make it a huge mess only lawyers need to address for a group of fed up Entropians going forward with the "Final Loot" idea.

Come on MA, it can be made a much better game!
 
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A step forward: How about starting with giving players the returns dashboard?
 

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Next two steps: make up for the losses not justified even in the present system (bad luck), it should not take aaages to hit gear stats return, and then make up for the losses above 50% of what paid in, gradually

The business model must focus on attracting new players who remain happy, not few happy players and many victims not recommending the game
 

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If I was not sure it could be made a much better game I would not insist
 

yeeck

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Most people did and most people did it wrong or did not knew how to interpret the data, because most people fail and lose money. I am not saying that if you do it like I said you will do better than them. You will be limited by your budget, your preconceptions and your intellect, as all people are. Most people do fail. Those who are successful are very smart or very lucky. Luck tends to run out eventually. Given enough time, the lucky ones end up broke.

LOL
I was previously in the group of players who love to collect data and they are all very smart players than me.
I wondered how much $ they have depo, just to get the results... till today for yearsss, I never heard any good news

Maybe I am lucky or I am too stupid to understand what they are doing.
I just do random stuffs everyday.
I only depo minimum, managed to skill up and survived for yearsss.

Here, I have gave you the most important pointers on how to survive with minimum depo.
There is no need to spend so much time on analyzing data too.
 
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