Mindarks Annual Report 2008

i'm no accountant so all those numbers mean nothing to me, lol. Can someone please tell me if MA's business plan is working well or not. In plain english please :)

Their profit is 1% less then last year. Though, it's still 99% of last year's profit, the second highest so far.

Iirc 40% withdraws is a LOT more than there used to be.
But with the global eco crise, it is expected I guess, and it could have been much worse.

Seems to me that they are doing ok through these pretty rough times,and once the global eco is back on track their future looks pretty good, imo.

I agree. Mindark's growth only halted as the crisis hit, while other companies are crashing to the ground.
 
Just have to say i agree, 40% withdrawals is ALOT, that could all have been avoided, and can be avoided in the future, by balancing the loot/hofs a bit better, ive seen atleast 1 thread here on EF where the receiver of the uberhof is ENCOURAGED by a handfull of people to withdraw and quit, what would you have done?

Day 1: Deposit a few hundred dollars
Day 3: get a 5,000 dollar hof
Day 4: Receive info that you are likely NEVER to get such a hof again, leave with profit or spend it till youre whining like everyone else

Hmmm.....

Just a thought, but.. :)
 
Their profit is 1% less then last year. Though, it's still 99% of last year's profit, the second highest so far.

What it means is that in accounting terms a target revenue figure was entered, the system works to produce the target figure in a fair manner.

A baseline revenue figure is also entered, one which is not to be gone below.
(Ofc in terms of as little tolerance as possible 1% in this case)

Obviously this baseline value was set to the total revenue of last year to ensure that company overall did not look bad as far as negative growth is concerned. Instead the worst case scenario is set at the stagnation value.

After all the general costs & revenue streams for the company are added into the system, all the accounts payable and accounts receivable;

The system then works by CALCULATING the loot percentage return to balance what is required to AT MINIMUM reach the baseline target figure if things are not going so well to put them on a natural path to surpass this figure.

You find a reflection in the complain level of participants with crap loot returns, huge loses when the system is working to this degree.

In normal operation, or when participation and decay levels are very healthy, the system works at more natural rate to provide good returns, and when in extremely good health for an extended period will likely to dish a fair bit back out to the internal economy (ie. Use a much lower CALCULATED fee, or better put higher CALCULATED loot return rate)

This has been no secret for quite some time,

Yes it is speculative, though it is how a lot of automated accounting based systems in the market place work;

Having come from a background where least cost routing other such values needed to be set in telco data accounting systems, baseline target revenue points and tolerance points all needed to be checked regularly to make sure the telco was generating a profitable target return over and above their TCOs, Total Cost of Ownership & Operation of the inherent services provided and infrastructure used by the Softswitch.

Some references to that which triggered this to being in place:

so I just asked MA ...

................. what we can reveal is that we have not implemented any changes in the distribution of the loot or in the general loot system. The return calculated as a percentage today, is no different from before ........

^^ This means the percentage returned is based on what I described above, the no different from before means that this is always how the system has worked based on the information entered as the targets which must be achieved throughout its day-to-day operation over the fiscal period.

A lot of the return rate is out of the control of the Balancing managers hands in the general automation of the system as far as TT value goes (Ofc this does not mean the team can put something worthwhile in loot :))

Hello crew!

Here are the Balancing Manager's responses to the Q&A.

Post 79
I believe that the return rate (the "cash/ped" that the users are getting from the system as loot) should be increased. Why shall I play this game and not play on a casino where the odds are much more for me to gain some money?
Submitted by Niovara

I agree, everything we do aims for a better return rate for the users, but must still pay for the systems and us at MindArk. I think you should participate in Entropia because it’s a virtual universe and nothing else.

Market prices are at work, services are up for trade, socializing and training pays off. Opportunities are there all the time for the observant and hard working participant and not just at the same place everyday.

The universe isn’t static and predictable instead it’s built on natural laws and the goals of the users in it and that’s what makes it intriguing and full of possibilities.

The response here in blue is what is important.

The remainder of the answer is based around, you will manage to make up for the extra we have taken to meet our targets set in the automated accounting system by selling off valued loot to others who deposit more to acquire it.

Which ofc is a very intelligent way to ensure revenue generation targets are met.

I have spoken in the past about Cost of Participation balancing, paying markups out to others and from general decay activity where once you have paided out more (This also includes that which is out of your control, paying a higher % than others to pay the bills & generate the revenue targets set by MA) the system will eventually spit items of a much higher markup to make back the additional cost you have paid for participation.

Both in the higher overall fees taken from the provider over the period, and highly likely the markups you have paid out to others to keep the internal economic engine running (Flow of the economy)

So in summary, the result was not unexpected to be the baseline value (Within acceptable tolerance +/- a few %) upon last years total revenue result to ensure the viability/worth of the organisation on paper (fiscal reports) as time progresses.

That is just how business operates in regards to automated accounting systems of such nature for the most part. :)

This is not the first, nor the 10th, nor the 30th such automated accounting system I have seen around the world with my past career of installing the orginal Ascend SS7 Softswitch interfacing directly with the cost/revenue management systems into telco cores.

Furthermore,

This is also why it is bad to log off when loot is bad, or when someone has got a large ATH or whatever, someone still needs to pay in participating to reach the target figures set in the accounting system;

Those who can afford to and/or are willing to press on are generally those who will be rewarded with more valuable loot over the long run for paying slightly higher service provider related fees (and those who continue to make the contributions to the internal economy as far as keeping the internal economy flowing by paying markups out to others - loot doesn't sell itself magically after all).

The system is fair and balanced in working to this degree, as all the information as a whole is accounted for and worked with to determine outcomes to making it fair for everyone involved in participating based on their contributions to both revenue and to the continued flow/operation of the internal game economy's engine.
 
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Just have to say i agree, 40% withdrawals is ALOT, that could all have been avoided, and can be avoided in the future, by balancing the loot/hofs a bit better, ive seen atleast 1 thread here on EF where the receiver of the uberhof is ENCOURAGED by a handfull of people to withdraw and quit, what would you have done?

Day 1: Deposit a few hundred dollars
Day 3: get a 5,000 dollar hof
Day 4: Receive info that you are likely NEVER to get such a hof again, leave with profit or spend it till youre whining like everyone else

Hmmm.....

Just a thought, but.. :)

actually its more then 40 percent as per note 22

Note 22 Accrued expenses

2008-12-31 2007-12-31
User requested reimbursements not yet settled 998 507

so take almost anouther million out

the numbers stated are
Requested withdrawals in PED 47 472
Net funds deposited in PED 112 672
so now at the 998,507 tp the 47,472 withdrawn and you have a lot more going out then comming in

i do hope i am reading this wrong as thats scarry as hell if i am not

so withdrawls are 1,045,979
deposits are 112,672
 
Mindark does seem to be spending their money, if you look at the cash flow statement.

actually its more then 40 percent as per note 22

Note 22 Accrued expenses

2008-12-31 2007-12-31
User requested reimbursements not yet settled 998 507

so take almost anouther million out

the numbers stated are
Requested withdrawals in PED 47 472
Net funds deposited in PED 112 672
so now at the 998,507 tp the 47,472 withdrawn and you have a lot more going out then comming in

i do hope i am reading this wrong as thats scarry as hell if i am not

so withdrawls are 1,045,979
deposits are 112,672

No, that's not how it is.

Amount of PED deposited: 160 000 000
Amount of PED withdrawn: 47 500 000

People say this is 40%? Hardly. The withdrawls were 30%. It's only 40% of the net amount remaining after you withdrew them. :scratch2:

As for note 22: The million mentioned is in SEK, not PED. And as per note 1, net sales:
Sold PED: 94 700 000 SEK
Reimbusements: 28 100 000 SEK

(Again, 30% withdrawn.)

You say another million as per note 22.

Reimbusements: 29 100 000 SEK.

That makes withdrawls closer to 31%. Nowhere near the 900% or whatever you had going there. ;)
 
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Sorry to be harsh, but many people just do not read the report carefully and jump into childish conclusion.

Net funds deposited = Deposit - Withdraw

And for many years, MA always treats net sales = deposit - withdraw.

Although in 2008, the net sale slightly decrease IN SEK, but as in the note state: DUE TO THE WEAKNESS OF THE USD. So the net deposit (also net sale) actually only decreased by 1%. Quite impressive when other companies crashes to the ground in such crisis.

MA still grows strongly. I don't know where comes an idea that 'MA kept loosing money'.

1 more good news is that: the retained earning would be carried forward. So there was no profit distribution to the shareholders. This was a re-investment, and we, customers, earns the most benefit from it. Or maybe Marco would have a new car, I'm not sure.
 
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i do hope i am reading this wrong as thats scarry as hell if i am not

i think you are. you have to watch for where they switch from putting numbers in '000 and when they aren't. for instance number for net* funds deposited is actually 112 672 000 and the requested withdrawal are 47 472 000; however the 998 507 number is just that. *also note this number is after the withdrawals taken out, the total amount deposited is 160 144 000.

1 more good news is that: the retained earning would be carried forward. So there was no profit distribution to the shareholders. This was a re-investment, and we, customers, earns the most benefit from it. Or maybe Marco would have a new car, I'm not sure.

thats a good point, clearly the shareholders are happy to let money stay in the business which means they aren't under much pressure.
 
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erm, but it is because they are sustaining a 40+ employee business.



bottom line? they making money. SEK 16m or ~$2.1m before tax and deprication, down on previous year but in a year when world economy dropped and they spent alot of money on infrastructure and cyrengine licence etc. this is a working business model, it might not make the money WoW makes, but its profit none the less.


where in that report does it say they are sustaining anything? do they have cash to cover the tt of the universe? in the last thread i saw about financial statements much math was done and no one could see where cash to cover the tt of Eu was hiding. just because they are operating doesnt mean they are sustaining, businesses dont always sink overnight, sometimes it takes awhile.

dont get me wrong i am rooting for MA because i like EU, but their financials arent impressive imo.
 
Sorry to be harsh, but many people just do not read the report carefully and jump into childish conclusion.

Net funds deposited = Deposit - Withdraw

And for many years, MA always treats net sales = deposit - withdraw.

Although in 2008, the net sale slightly decrease IN SEK, but as in the note state: DUE TO THE WEAKNESS OF THE USD. So the net deposit (also net sale) actually only decreased by 1%. Quite impressive when other companies crashes to the ground in such crisis.

MA still grows strongly. I don't know where comes an idea that 'MA kept loosing money'.
1 more good news is that: the retained earning would be carried forward. So there was no profit distribution to the shareholders. This was a re-investment, and we, customers, earns the most benefit from it. Or maybe Marco would have a new car, I'm not sure.

part of the idea comes from the fact that no matter how badly MA wants to it to be so, DEPOSITS - WITHDRAWLS DO NOT EQUAL PROFITS.

i dont know sweden finance law or tax law and dont really care. i would say value of MA assets - tt value of the universe - value of any MA debts = MA real assets, now if they would publish that number then we could compare that to last year as well as comparing the size of the universe, to see if MA is growing and if the universe is growing.

them taking money you deposit and retain in tt value and calling it anything but a liability on the financials is bullshit.
 
where in that report does it say they are sustaining anything?

[...] now if they would publish that number then we could compare that to last year as well as comparing the size of the universe, to see if MA is growing and if the universe is growing.

if you cant find the answers to these questions, you either havent read it or dont understand what you are reading. thats fair enough as some number dont appear how we think they might as we arent experts and accountants have certain ways of presenting things. they compare key numbers back to 2003 in one part, and to 2007 throughout. they aren't trying to hide anything, these are audited accounts.
 
part of the idea comes from the fact that no matter how badly MA wants to it to be so, DEPOSITS - WITHDRAWLS DO NOT EQUAL PROFITS.

i dont know sweden finance law or tax law and dont really care. i would say value of MA assets - tt value of the universe - value of any MA debts = MA real assets, now if they would publish that number then we could compare that to last year as well as comparing the size of the universe, to see if MA is growing and if the universe is growing.

them taking money you deposit and retain in tt value and calling it anything but a liability on the financials is bullshit.

To be honest, it seems that you don't understand what actually in the report, or you have no knowledge about accounting.

And for MA, MA always treats Deposit - Withdraw = Sales for years, and it's very easy to understand that concept. And 1 more thing, you think that MA owes us the TT value? You should also read the EULA more carefully. When you deposit your money into this game, you no longer have your money. PEDs are MA's asset, not yours. MA can refuse any withdraw if they want to. You think that we can get our TT back when MA goes bankruptcy? Silly enough.

Even the shareholders are in front of us in the payment line. We are just customers, we pay to have fun. We are not liable accounts.
 
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part of the idea comes from the fact that no matter how badly MA wants to it to be so, DEPOSITS - WITHDRAWLS DO NOT EQUAL PROFITS.

i dont know sweden finance law or tax law and dont really care. i would say value of MA assets - tt value of the universe - value of any MA debts = MA real assets, now if they would publish that number then we could compare that to last year as well as comparing the size of the universe, to see if MA is growing and if the universe is growing.

them taking money you deposit and retain in tt value and calling it anything but a liability on the financials is bullshit.


Well, you could say their profit by "law" and regulations is the profit showed in the income statement. But as you say, if we would count their "moral" obligation to pay back our PEDs if we withdraw, then the profit will be lower. If you read the section "Contingent liabilities" last in the balance sheet they state that PED owned by the players is 51 000 000 SEK, thats an increase of 16 MSEK from 2007. This item is not a liability in the balance sheet.
 
Well, you could say their profit by "law" and regulations is the profit showed in the income statement. But as you say, if we would count their "moral" obligation to pay back our PEDs if we withdraw, then the profit will be lower. If you read the section "Contingent liabilities" last in the balance sheet they state that PED owned by the players is 51 000 000 SEK, thats an increase of 16 MSEK from 2007. This item is not a liability in the balance sheet.


hmm interesting. That would make each player own 1275 ped If you calculate with a playerbase of 40k players. So the playerbase gotta be smaller i think.
 
hmm interesting. That would make each player own 1275 ped If you calculate with a playerbase of 40k players. So the playerbase gotta be smaller i think.

It is in SEK, so around 70 000 kped or 1700 ped if divided by 40K players.
 
40k active players is pure speculation. There are over 100k new accounts registered and over 600k old accounts. Even the inactive accounts have some PED in their storage so any wild calculations are pointless.


Had a long look at the report.:coffee: It's looking neat. In the world crisis MA is standing solid. The investments are made and working, the reduction in accounts is lower (-9% in 2008 compared to -14% in 2007). The remaining accounts increased their total value (+9%) which means players become more involved and addicted with the game (and that is good). The other numbers doesn't look bad too. Looks like the sky is not falling after all for one more year :D

Still there is a stagnation. The world crisis, the continuous work on CryEngine2, the lower number of new accounts. If i have to be honest, MA performs better than many, and just has slower pace preparing for the big leap with the new platform. If it combines with with the end of the economic crisis we could see one really amazing 2010 year. Even a Golden Calypso Age as some people say.:wtg: Time will tell :smoke:
 
them taking money you deposit and retain in tt value and calling it anything but a liability on the financials is bullshit.

Read the licence. TT isnt their liability.

Money YOU deposited in last 6 mths = liability OR the TT value you have on you. Wichever is smaller.

So forget it - i repeat ingame TT isnt their liability :laugh:

I.

P.S. so id say their liabilities are very very easy to calculate:

1/2 * total deposits last year :D
 
Read the licence.

understand the EULA. thats their stated limitation of legal liability.

They still maintain they carry a contingent liability of all unconsumed/unspent TT value. It's oddly rounded to 51000k Sek, but that their stated amount
 
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