MindArk's VU 9.0 - Star's Eyes

I think that they just forgot the place holders in the books. It will be fixed in a mini-update. Another option would be that they only drop (L) blueprints for non-(L) footguards.

Quite possibly so. However, my point was that a large part of the discontent in the community right now is the long list of 'unknowns' like this, and the lack of forewarning and discussion by MA that could have helped avoid a lot of the negative feelings we currently see in the community.
 
Nice to see a more positive outlook on the new VU :thumbup:
 
Quite possibly so. However, my point was that a large part of the discontent in the community right now is the long list of 'unknowns' like this, and the lack of forewarning and discussion by MA that could have helped avoid a lot of the negative feelings we currently see in the community.

I can not agree more.

Maybe one thing MA could learn after this VU is that they could try to warn us a bit more in advance.

For example the preview screenshots of the armors were so great that i was really dissapointed when logged in after this VU. I know that my graphic card is too old to reach the quality showed on those pictures but i would certainly have taken "preventive" actions if they had posted pictures taken with a more ancient graphic card.

Avatar looks like in comic books to me know. Yesterday i saw a guy with full martial and my first reaction was "How Great ! Spiderman !!".

Now to MA ...

"You build the game but WE make it live" just allow us to give us our views and involve us more before you change.
You did it for the storage/inventory changes and it's just GREAT !!
 
I think that communication is the core problem here, MA could have easily avoided most of this anger and aggravation by simply talking to people. Much of the damage done could be repaired by simply listening to the customer base. I understand the need to generate revenue, thats what business is about, but when a company completly ignores the customer base, they do so at thier own peril.
While I appreciate Star's input and agree that there are many very nice, shiny new things to be happy aboput with this VU, the idea that I am now expected to throw a large chunk of money (in addition to my regular deposits) into the game just so I can once again complete my armor sets (which I purchased as sets) is simply absurd. I can live with the 2 pec tax if I must although the excuses givin for this were lame and absurd, but the idea that I must now buy additional armor/plates without even bieng givin a reason or a chance to voice my opinion about it is simply too much. If this makes me a "whiner" then so be it.

In the meantime, I'll wait and see. But while Im waiting I won't be playing. And I certainly wont be "donating" any more money until this is addressed.

Blackjack :cowboy:
 
Meh, Jena, you're biased by 1M peds :silly2:

That being said, I somehow agree with you.

I could say I'm not even bothered by the 2 pec fee (check my siggie tho :D), still my karma killer, in one missed shot, consumes whatever fee I pay for changing armour (and I don't change it, due to fee, point marked for MindArk).

I am sure they have a reasonable reason for the fee.

What bothers me the most is their unthought approach. We are adults (most of us), with education, work experience and so on. Is simply insulting to be treated like a mindless member of the hoard, with no reasonable explanations and so on.

Yes, people, in average, are tempted to bitch. I asume is somehow in the human nature. But MindArk does nothing but to encourage such attitude.

That's my main unhapiness about MindArk. It often seems that communicating is a one too big hat for them.

And I am sure is not Marco or Frank's fault. Them are just employees.
 
Just a couple of observations...

The EU community is certainly an interesting one. Such a range of people and opinions. Star's post certainly represents one of the more extreme points-of-view, but at least it's an educated one, born of a large amount of experience of the game.

There are certainly a lot of people who view MA's recent actions with disgust, and from reading a forum it's very difficult to tell how many people are for and against.

I tend to view the issues more simply than that.

On the one hand, we have the new graphics. Long overdue, but it certainly brings EU a bit more up-to-date, and can now contend (graphically) with some of the newer MMO's coming along. This is a necessary update. It was not done to please the player-base.

Everything else, whether viewed by the individual positively or negatively are changes MA have felt necessary, and have done so in full knowledge certain people would be in uproar about it, and others would just get on with it, and maybe praise MA for it.

The changes themselves are kind-of irrelevant. I think the real issue is the way MA executed the changes.

I don't mean to generalise too much here, but consider this:

EU is based on a very tightly managed RCE where your assets in game have no guaranteed value over TT. When MA makes any change, the value of your assets, and your interest in the game itself can change dramatically.

If, after playing a long time, you see MA making these changes and they are affecting you negatively long-term, then it's about time you make some stern decisions about your playing style, and you re-evaluate the way you view MA as a company fit to run the game.

If you basically like the changes, you have trust in the company, and you believe they always act in the right manner, and you believe your investment is safe, then what do you have to worry about?

I personally do not like the power MA have over such a large and valuable economy and player base. I don't like the lack of interaction from the community. Even if MA were always looking to the best interests of their customers, and always acted with the best of intentions, I still like to have a bit more say in the way it's run... a bit like what we call a democracy.

I've grown to distrust MA's motives, and to me this VU confirms even more my original fears about the whole thing. I don't think they're acting against the player, I just think they are in it for themselves, which IMHO is almost as bad.

Whilst a lot of Star's post, and some of the other supporting opinions made me cringe, I can see that these people actually believe that MA is working to do the best for the game long-term. Maybe they think they know a bit more than the rest of us, but the underlying trust is there. They've obviously got past questioning what MA do and their motives, and are in a happy place. This is the most vulnerable position to be in, yet you face a lot less angst day-to-day, as you don't really have to question what's going on as much as the rest of us.

I have been in business, and have lived long enough to see enough successful companies screw the little guy. I see MANY things to suggest MA are in a similar position to do the same, and I believe they do on a regular basis!

MA have micro-managed the economy for a long time, and done so in such a way to make the rises in price less visible to most people. The whole game is engineered so people can't easily figure out what makes it tick. This is a huge strength, as it then largely relies on speculation as to what has changed underneath, how much it's costing, and how it'll affect us long-term.

MA give us what they give us, in their usual 'like it or lump-it' fashion. I guess the main problem boils down to whether you like this method of management, or you prefer something which actually involves the player a bit more.

I somehow doubt anyone will actually read through all this, but I guess it's my way of brain-dumping my thoughts on the real issue here.
 
Just a couple of observations...

The EU community is certainly an interesting one. Such a range of people and opinions. Star's post certainly represents one of the more extreme points-of-view, but at least it's an educated one, born of a large amount of experience of the game.

There are certainly a lot of people who view MA's recent actions with disgust, and from reading a forum it's very difficult to tell how many people are for and against.

I tend to view the issues more simply than that.

On the one hand, we have the new graphics. Long overdue, but it certainly brings EU a bit more up-to-date, and can now contend (graphically) with some of the newer MMO's coming along. This is a necessary update. It was not done to please the player-base.

Everything else, whether viewed by the individual positively or negatively are changes MA have felt necessary, and have done so in full knowledge certain people would be in uproar about it, and others would just get on with it, and maybe praise MA for it.

The changes themselves are kind-of irrelevant. I think the real issue is the way MA executed the changes.

I don't mean to generalise too much here, but consider this:

EU is based on a very tightly managed RCE where your assets in game have no guaranteed value over TT. When MA makes any change, the value of your assets, and your interest in the game itself can change dramatically.

If, after playing a long time, you see MA making these changes and they are affecting you negatively long-term, then it's about time you make some stern decisions about your playing style, and you re-evaluate the way you view MA as a company fit to run the game.

If you basically like the changes, you have trust in the company, and you believe they always act in the right manner, and you believe your investment is safe, then what do you have to worry about?

I personally do not like the power MA have over such a large and valuable economy and player base. I don't like the lack of interaction from the community. Even if MA were always looking to the best interests of their customers, and always acted with the best of intentions, I still like to have a bit more say in the way it's run... a bit like what we call a democracy.

I've grown to distrust MA's motives, and to me this VU confirms even more my original fears about the whole thing. I don't think they're acting against the player, I just think they are in it for themselves, which IMHO is almost as bad.

Whilst a lot of Star's post, and some of the other supporting opinions made me cringe, I can see that these people actually believe that MA is working to do the best for the game long-term. Maybe they think they know a bit more than the rest of us, but the underlying trust is there. They've obviously got past questioning what MA do and their motives, and are in a happy place. This is the most vulnerable position to be in, yet you face a lot less angst day-to-day, as you don't really have to question what's going on as much as the rest of us.

I have been in business, and have lived long enough to see enough successful companies screw the little guy. I see MANY things to suggest MA are in a similar position to do the same, and I believe they do on a regular basis!

MA have micro-managed the economy for a long time, and done so in such a way to make the rises in price less visible to most people. The whole game is engineered so people can't easily figure out what makes it tick. This is a huge strength, as it then largely relies on speculation as to what has changed underneath, how much it's costing, and how it'll affect us long-term.

MA give us what they give us, in their usual 'like it or lump-it' fashion. I guess the main problem boils down to whether you like this method of management, or you prefer something which actually involves the player a bit more.

I somehow doubt anyone will actually read through all this, but I guess it's my way of brain-dumping my thoughts on the real issue here.

Read it and agree with it ..very well put.

t
 
I am not going to allow myself to get angry or upset about them and I'm hoping the rest of the community will share this sort of tolerance with what MindArk is doing.
Hah! you ought to know better than that :laugh:
It's the same every time... Anyways, didn't think i'd ever do this, but... + rep to ya :)

Star is not alone in his line of thinking...some of us are just tired of the negative backlash we get from the mob any time we post a positive view :rolleyes:

Btw, money isn't the motivator for all of us either...I've not withdrawn a single cent from EU myself.
Yea, me and others who voiced our opinion on the VU felt this... A shame so many in this community are so spoiled, intollerant and fail to see the greater picture or accept others opinions... Thankfully, just as many are able to think more than one step ahead, and have been showing their support :)
 
What bothers me the most is their unthought approach. We are adults (most of us), with education, work experience and so on. Is simply insulting to be treated like a mindless member of the hoard, with no reasonable explanations and so on.

Yes, people, in average, are tempted to bitch. I asume is somehow in the human nature. But MindArk does nothing but to encourage such attitude.

That's my main unhapiness about MindArk. It often seems that communicating is a one too big hat for them.

MA is communicating with us just like all other monopolies(/dictatorships) do. And they make "improvements" as they like, they don't have to listen users. And for all those wiseas... who say "it's your decision to play or not", can you give any alternative choises to EU? After EU-world there is nothing ;) yet, if you want to play you have no choises. Yet. But there will be and then MA have to listen players opinions. Oh, sorry, they don't, they go to China :rolleyes:
 
Star I agree and I think you're wise
 
First let me say I am definitely not a happy puppy about what MA did,
but backlashing at people who do positive postings and calling them biased is awful.

Positive criticism can yield much better results.

I am still struggling to come to terms with the changes and I will eventually.
Now I eagerly await any comments from MindArk to help me with coping.
 
Noggin, man, what you say is idealist and nice but is just a candy. MindArk is a business, they're in for the money, no doubt about it. If they would be in for anything else but the money, would be charity, not business, and the result won't function. Because the system (I mean IRL system) is built of such nature. I do agree there are things to correct in IRL, but we open a can of worms, and it ain't the topic here.

I do not believe that a business can realistically function if listen to its customers 100%. For the simple reasons that its customers, at their turn, are different and can't be all satisfied.

An example at hand was opalo amped nerfin'. I was delighted about it. Deeply. And I'm not joking. Somebody patient enough might dig one of my threads where I was proposing exactly this ("I'm sick of opalo" or something like that - if I didn't deleted it when left EF).

Hence MindArk has two solutions:

1. Listen to the most common desires (well, except "gimme more loot"). And I sincerely believe that is actually hapening, one must be blind to not aknowledge that. For the 2 years I've been ingame, existed little tweaks and bug fixing which enhanced alot the gaming.

2. Learn to put the dung in sugar. Whenever they have to pick an unpopular feature, they should learn to communicate it. I read somewhere on forum something like "it's a shame that even hardcore players get shafted by MA" or something along these lines. Well, you can't actually be a hardcore player without taking a shovel full of uncommon dung in face from MA once in a time.

So, I have to reiterate, they can't listen to everybody. But something like a comittee with several represantitves of all ranks throught the playerbase could give but relevant feedback to MA. Ofcourse, not too much decision power, because that corrupts. Even something mailbased, not necessarly ingame, a small forum, an IRC with selective membership and so on, i'm out of ideas. I must credit Optima for this idea and I agree is a good one. Quick examples are avatar creations and right click stuff. Entropia Guides do a terrific job for the newbs, but I wouldn't ask newcomers about what should be changed in an existant system.

It must exist a balance between gaining money and satisfying customers, but that must always be more weighty on the money, else the business model dies.

P.S.: A quick example here of succesful comunication is the loot. Majority of players are delighted by the possibility of taking 10k on atrax young, while that burdens the average loot. A great succes for MindArk which is rarely and weakly chalenged by the comunity.
 
Some really great posts here and i have to agree with jenna, i really love this VU despite some of the drawbacks.

As for the foot guards yes they will be annoying to collect them all and it does seem unfair to people who have all the rare sets, the benefit of having the extra piece as i've stated in other threads is over time you will save on decay.

as most people know as armour decays you slowly start to take more damage as the protection seemingly goes down, well now you have an extra piece of armour for the decay to be spread over meaning it will take that slight bit longer before you pass the threshold where this extra damage starts to occur.


Kaza
 
Nice post Star, yes some ppl just have to try to see the bigger picture sometimes.

We all get confsued when logging into a partly new game after a VU.


Some of us spend hours and hours ingame per day and like with all big changes it feels weird, like someone scamed you whatever. It always easyer when everything is just the same. Then to adapt to something new and see if its better.


Eu will change over and over again for those who stay, else we would still be hunting ambu, lootin shadow thighs and they would simply not be worth anything.

So go out there and kill your hoggs and loot the shadow fot guard thats actully worth something insted.
 
Very good post star +rep
 
Lady Trisha

Fact!







Apprentice Jedi,
Force Majeure
 
1 word:

RESPECT!!!


Pink Pussycat Panther
 
Very nice post Star. Working in a large computer center, I see this type of reaction almost every time we update a program . Screens change, prompts change and even if it makes the job easier until the users become familiar with it,, there is always a large amount of bitching. I do try to communicate upcoming changes a little better though :) Even then, I get lots of comments about why ? Do we have too and even a couple " Well, I dont like it and wont use anymore :) " I would love to be able to show those individuals where the door is :) In MA's defense ( ohh, I am not rich by the way but have put in a lot of my hard earned money), I most definitely agree that the game must be upgraded to compete with other high graphics games. With all you can do in this game, imagine how difficult it is to upgrade and not disappoint someone. Better communication needed ? Perhaps but even then there will be plenty of complainers. Keep up the good work MA, it is going to take me a while to get used to it and find me some ghoul foot guards but I will enjoy every minute in this much brighter and colorful world.

PS.. MA , you still need to make Ghoul look a little different then Gnome :) :)
 
pls, can someone draw that "bigger picture"?

ti watanabe
 
pls, can someone draw that "bigger picture"?

ti watanabe

Less lag than there otherwise would have been imediately following VU, limited clothes, jewelry and other gadgets in the future (as well as a use for tailoring residue) for the tailors to make... among other things.. ;)
 
Very well put Jenna, I agree 100%. It's hard for some to see the big picture, now all MA have to do is fix the real bugs of the VU, like disappearing hotkeys etc...
 
Sad thing is this probable is the best VU for a long time with a lot of nice features. There should have been a lot of positive postings.

So why oh why do MA spoil it with a tacky 2pec money grab which must be insignificant against the profits being made AND attempt to justify it with the most absurd statements about lag.

You do seriously have to question the level of thought being directed at the player base and their response to things. A bucket more ill will generated when it could have been good.
 
Less lag than there otherwise would have been imediately following VU, limited clothes, jewelry and other gadgets in the future (as well as a use for tailoring residue) for the tailors to make... among other things.. ;)

Yes, less lag because of less participation due to a punitive fee is a great way to address the problem. :rolleyes:
 
ah thank god, I was worried when I started reading that it would be yet another (lets burn down mindark) thread, nice to see not everyone has to express themselfs with anger, but can actually see some positives in the changes too.

I was a bit annoyed that I no longer have a full armor set I must admit, but if you take a few minutes to think about it, it isnt all bad damage will now be devided over 7 peices instead of 6 and there will be longer hunting time on the armor due to this.

I just hope all nessesary peices will be dropped and not be a "rare" part.

thanks for a nice read ! :)
 
Very nice post Star. Working in a large computer center, I see this type of reaction almost every time we update a program . Screens change, prompts change and even if it makes the job easier until the users become familiar with it,, there is always a large amount of bitching. I do try to communicate upcoming changes a little better though :) Even then, I get lots of comments about why ? Do we have too and even a couple " Well, I dont like it and wont use anymore :) " I would love to be able to show those individuals where the door is :) In MA's defense ( ohh, I am not rich by the way but have put in a lot of my hard earned money), I most definitely agree that the game must be upgraded to compete with other high graphics games. With all you can do in this game, imagine how difficult it is to upgrade and not disappoint someone. Better communication needed ? Perhaps but even then there will be plenty of complainers. Keep up the good work MA, it is going to take me a while to get used to it and find me some ghoul foot guards but I will enjoy every minute in this much brighter and colorful world.

PS.. MA , you still need to make Ghoul look a little different then Gnome :) :)

Really? You need to patch every change almost straight away?
No mate, you probably test it works first and then maybe make minor tweaks in the next update version planned. No doubt you also provide real support to your users when they have problems too?

This is a RCE..bugs cost us money every day ..but rarely if ever cost MA anything at all and if they look like being in our favour they get fixed rapido or worse we get banned for using them as exploits.

You can't please all customers 100% of the time, that's obviously true...but you can take the time to communicate especially at times like this, it's in the company interest to do so. No-one expects perfection, just to be given a little respect in return for their loyalty and deposits.

Many of us still can't stay in the game for any length of time..CTD constantly.
Many laptop users knew they would need something more powerful for C£2 but suddenly find themselves needing it now for no good reason except shiny armour.
I haven't seen the server at 100% since the VU personally.

2 pec for armour changes isn't going to bother me long term...the feeling that someone thinks I will pay them to play any old crap they produce without even a half decent comment from them about what is wrong or if/when it's going to be fixed...that does.

t
 
Yes, less lag because of less participation due to a punitive fee is a great way to address the problem. :rolleyes:

Didn't say it was the most optimal way to reduce lag. Like so many others have pointed out, i'm sure it's possible to optimize code or hardware in other ways :)
Just trying to understand MA as well as have a positive approach to things.
 
Didn't say it was the most optimal way to reduce lag. Like so many others have pointed out, i'm sure it's possible to optimize code or hardware in other ways :)
Just trying to understand MA as well as have a positive approach to things.

I prefer to be happy and positive too, but I'm also a realist. There are many good things in this VU for sure, and I give them credit for those, but when something is bs (imo), I have to say that as well, and not sugarcoat it. I can't put a positive spin on something I see no good in, as much as I try.
 
I like the post.

But it reminds me of another thing.

Does an owner of a Maibach see the problem in rising fuel prices? Or is that a discussion a matter to him at all?

I understand the point of view, but I also put it to a point of view amongst the group of players that 99.9% of the average gamer will never get to.

I wouldn't compare this point of view with the point of view from a newcomers side as the perception on the topic is quite different from the start. Both have valid points.

But will EU exist in the long run on the 0.1% of players seeing the big picture or beeing attractive to the majority of playerbase?

Eventually MA is supporting the exodus of the majority of players by their on actions. What do we think mostly at the moment? "Omg, I wish I was there early enough." If you would have had the perception to back up certain items or not, is another discussion, I am aware of that. But I do think any low-mid to maybe-oldtimer had this thought of this "being too late" at some point.

So basically the exodus will happen at the glance of any new opportunity to being "early" on the merry go around. Some will come back, some will stay thats always the go with games. But by supporting this "being too late" feeling with skill changes without balancing, item drops being cloudy to rare to obsolete "who knows?" the majority of players will take any opportunity to catch the "early years".

And thats where EU respectively MA has to work on, imo.
 
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