More Space discussion

[aia]

Point is if all pull their own weight regardless of unique features they will all do better. If only one is pulling the weight for all of them, it's pretty much a lost cause.

Now that's looking at the bigger picture

There is a twist to it: If I recall right, the income is divided something like this:
The profit from a player goes to 35% to the planet he originated on, and to 15% to the planet he's doing activities on (and 50% to MA).

So a planet partner who does lots of advertising and brings in lots of new players will earn more than a planet partner who is good at pulling people born at other planets to their planet. In other words, external advertising/promotion pays better than internal. And of course it's optimal if a planet partner both recruits his new players (from outside) and then stay and do activities on the planet.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

If they have similar gameplay, they also bring similar customers...

If customers are similar or not is totally irrelevant. If they are similar they will get along well and us old players will be out of a job so you guys can stop your b*tch*** then

If each planet would marketing their own planet that would hopefully
bring in more players... but how many will stay?

If they like the planet or the game they will stay. Which will always be the case no matter how good you make the game.

It is about bringing in people that wouldn't join otherwise.

I disagree. It's about marketing which can include people who may not otherwise join but should never be a prerequisite i.e. at the expense of other type of players.

Furthermore it is entirely possible to market the game as it is now to players who may not have joined otherwise. It all depends on your expertise in marketing.

If you decide not to market you've already pretty much given up and set yourself up to fail.

 

[Neil Stockton]

There is a twist to it: If I recall right, the income is divided something like this:
The profit from a player goes to 35% to the planet he originated on, and to 15% to the planet he's doing activities on (and 50% to MA).

It's 25/25/50. But I think this has gone a bit off topic.

 

[Alice]

Exactly.

So what you and I are both saying is that the defenders are too cheap. They're miserly. They're penny pinchers. They are giving the pirates opportunity to take from them because in their minds its easier to risk it all consistently and complain the few times that it is taken than arm yourself and fight back, using a small portion of your markup each time doing so.

We both see the same thing. Just some parties want to excuse it, while others do not.

Do I support a pirate? Nope. But the difference between you and I is, were I to trade in space, I'd carry a whole mess of ammo, and pay people to go with me. I'd make sure that the materials I carried were enough to cover the cost of the trip, plus markup for any ammo spent and regular market conditions. And I would not think twice about shooting the bastards down, or anyone else who happened to get too close to my convoy.

To some folks the system is something that needs to be changed. To me it is something that I must adapt to work within.

nope, i didn't say that

i said that if pirates had to cover loot backup as well if they want to loot, you would generate some kind of police activeily going out to defend against pirates

you assume i speak of traders carring stuff, that isn't true, if you carry stuff in quad without protection nor intent to defend yourself, thats the problem of the trader, i agree there, but that wasn't the situation i had in mind

pirates play at basically 0 ped risk
sure, they shoot ammo, but afterall they are the agressors here
they can kill people carrying 10 000s of peds by using a tiny bit of ammo
without anything to back a police force up

now if they wanted to lot 10 000 peds AND had to have 10 000 peds in their inventory for that, because if they just had 0 they would loot 0, you would have a vastly different situation
suddenly every pirate would have to think about what he wants to risk of his own pocket, 5 ped? 50 ped?
because now there are hunters, lets call it police, looking for them
that would make things more juicy
they would have to carry some peds as well of course
so pirates would get more targets too, win win


in either case, that hadn't helped at the topic with exploit summoning at hand too

 

[In Love With]

Lootable space is fucking bullshit to start off with.

With a quad or slep it takes ages to go from one planet to another (epic fail) and to top it off you have some jackasses trying to steal from you ...

If you want interplanetary trade and gameplay to flourish, you need to set the parameters in a way that everyone can travel safely. At least install some tp's that instantly gets you from A to B (at an extra cost). The way it is now is beyond bad ... But so is MA's response time on just about everything so hey ...


Angel

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

There is a twist to it: If I recall right, the income is divided something like this:
The profit from a player goes to 35% to the planet he originated on, and to 15% to the planet he's doing activities on (and 50% to MA).

So a planet partner who does lots of advertising and brings in lots of new players will earn more than a planet partner who is good at pulling people born at other planets to their planet. In other words, external advertising/promotion pays better than internal. And of course it's optimal if a planet partner both recruits his new players (from outside) and then stay and do activities on the planet.

Can you remember where you saw that? i.e. the 35%, 15% and 50% split. I think it was discussed in some thread before but don't remember the figures...

 

[Johnyblaze]

If you want interplanetary trade and gameplay to flourish, you need to set the parameters in a way that everyone can travel safely. At least install some tp's that instantly gets you from A to B (at an extra cost). The way it is now is beyond bad ... But so is MA's response time on just about everything so hey ...

I would suggest an interplanetary tp that u have to pay lets say 10% of tax from stackables in your inventory and if u want to smuggle goods to another planet without taxes you go through space

 

[aia]

Can you remember where you saw that? i.e. the 35%, 15% and 50% split. I think it was discussed in some thread before but don't remember the figures...

I Think it was on the old partner site (hosted in germany). Not sure if the numbers are right though...

The website offered a partnership program, where someone could have a web page and recruit players to planet calypso. Then the income from the players on that site got split between MA, "fpc" and the partner.

 

[Joat]

If customers are similar or not is totally irrelevant. If they are similar they will get along well and us old players will be out of a job so you guys can stop your b*tch*** then

If they like the planet or the game they will stay. Which will always be the case no matter how good you make the game.

I disagree. It's about marketing which can include people who may not otherwise join but should never be a prerequisite i.e. at the expense of other type of players.

Furthermore it is entirely possible to market the game as it is now to players who may not have joined otherwise. It all depends on your expertise in marketing.

If you decide not to market you've already pretty much given up and set yourself up to fail.

I agree on the marketing it is very importent, and as you mentioned, without it
you might miss a lot of potential players.
So yes, good marketing is a must, but there is one problem:
You might not have enough of "products" to sell.

You can do a extremly successful marketing and reach 100% of potential players
for the type of gameplay all PPs have now, but when all PPs are too close to each
other in features, that might only be a small fraction of *every* potential RCE-MMO
players, since todays features for sure doesn't fit everyone.
With way more features and options, it's more likely that you get a way bigger
playerbase.

 

[Vixen Cyblade]

Maybe. I have a few things
1. a bounty system with rep you go to a mission terminal to pick up a bounty to have to have a + rep to receive a mission I can see where a system like this could be abused but its a idea and with some brainstorming could come up with something
2. maybe insurance but this could be abused too
3. the most feasible is the pirates would have to Carry a cash on them of a % they could loot so like if 50%
example is the carry 100 ped they could loot up to 200 ped

 

[Vixen Cyblade]

I like this idea

pirates play at basically 0 ped risk
sure, they shoot ammo, but afterall they are the agressors here
they can kill people carrying 10 000s of peds by using a tiny bit of ammo
without anything to back a police force up

now if they wanted to lot 10 000 peds AND had to have 10 000 peds in their inventory for that, because if they just had 0 they would loot 0, you would have a vastly different situation
suddenly every pirate would have to think about what he wants to risk of his own pocket, 5 ped? 50 ped?
because now there are hunters, lets call it police, looking for them
that would make things more juicy
they would have to carry some peds as well of course
so pirates would get more targets too, win win


in either case, that hadn't helped at the topic with exploit summoning at hand too

 

[Magyar_Republic]

nope, i didn't say that

i said that if pirates had to cover loot backup as well if they want to loot, you would generate some kind of police activeily going out to defend against pirates

you assume i speak of traders carring stuff, that isn't true, if you carry stuff in quad without protection nor intent to defend yourself, thats the problem of the trader, i agree there, but that wasn't the situation i had in mind

pirates play at basically 0 ped risk
sure, they shoot ammo, but afterall they are the agressors here
they can kill people carrying 10 000s of peds by using a tiny bit of ammo
without anything to back a police force up

now if they wanted to lot 10 000 peds AND had to have 10 000 peds in their inventory for that, because if they just had 0 they would loot 0, you would have a vastly different situation
suddenly every pirate would have to think about what he wants to risk of his own pocket, 5 ped? 50 ped?
because now there are hunters, lets call it police, looking for them
that would make things more juicy
they would have to carry some peds as well of course
so pirates would get more targets too, win win


in either case, that hadn't helped at the topic with exploit summoning at hand too

Look, what youre saying is that people dont want to play unless they get paid.

That's called being a miser. That's called being cheap. That's called being a money grubbing whiner.

I have no sympathy for them. The pirates dont get paid every time they shoot someone down. Why on earth should traders be compensated every time they shoot a pirate down?

That is stupid.

 

[JohnCapital]

--Mod's note--
These posts started as an off topic debate in another thread, so in order to preserve the original thread topic, plus not lose this one, I've moved it into it's own thread.
--/Mod's note--

 

[Kri]

Magyar, I meant no disrespect to you, I did not know who wrote the content on PC site but I enjoyed reading it. Nothing you wrote is wrong, it's just that with current perception on pirates attracting more players to be pirates is, well, questionable.

I don't want to get suck into discussion about what/who/how around space pvp quite honestly on the forums, but sometimes the temptation is too strong

I strongly believe that what we know as Space right now will change. How? I don't know. But what we have right now is just a 'beta',a Minimal Viable Product that MA pushed out just to see the reaction, gather feedback before implementing their full vision.


As for the revenue share, as far as I know for PPs it's (from the income that player generates): 50% for MA, 25% to the planet the player is from and 25% to the planet where the player deposited/spent the money - depents how exactly MA deducts the money. I see it that they either can do this straight away at the deposit, in which case they inflate artificially the value of PED, or when the player burns the PEDs via decay, shooting, mining etc. The point is - we don't know and MA will not share this

Now the other ratio is for Moon Partners/Operators - 50% MA, 15% to the player originating from the moon and 35% for the player spending on the moon (or the other way around). I guess in case of 35% for player originating from Moon would encourage MP to attract more players, where the other way around where 35% comes from players spending on the Moon would encourage attracting more players (regardless where they from) to the Moon.

I don't have the sources handy, but I'm quite sure the above is correct. But, yet again, I'm going off-topic

 

[JD RACING]

why would poeple have to risk getting shot down when the pirate risk nothing except the lost of amo to get the ship distroide

if ma want to make it fair like other said you can only loot what you willing the pirate will to risk also

your stealing from someone but dont want to risk your own ped in process

and you need pirate to keep balance from planet to planet that only stack you affect

what about the guns fabs made from other planet that braught to others risk free

this pvp was only rob paul to make petter pipper happy

there a place for pvp let them develop hunting in space for mob mining and put that in pvp

 

[siremi]

I suggest the every pirate should have a bounty placed on his head on the exact amount of tt that he / she will loot in space.

If / when the pirate is killed and looted in space, this bounty that accumulates is withdrawn from the pirate ped card and given to the looter in tt ammo, even going into negative ped balance for the pirate. If negative ped balance, then the pirate can not repair / buy ammo until ped balance comes back into positive by selling stuff to tt.

This would stimulate pirates profession as well as the counter profession of bounty hunter. The bounty hunter will seek pirates with big bounties on their heads, and clear those bounties. Clearing bounties is not considered a piracy act and will not result in a bounty, though looting stackables can still add a bounty to the bounty hunter himself.

Of course there are drawbacks, and some rules should be applied like only a blue karma pilot can loot the bounty and not from same soc, so they don't loot clear their own bounties, but overall it could work...

If you don't like the negative ped balance, witch I understand, then the pirate should only be able to loot max the amount of ped that is available on his ped card. The ped card is deducted by the amount of loot the pirate got, and this ped is placed on his head as bounty.

Example:

Pirate goes out with 550 ped on card, he kills and loots someone carrying 650 ped of stackables. Bounty of 550 ped is placed on pirate head and 550 stackables are transferred to pirate inventory, while 100 ped remains in the victim inventory.

Then pirate has 550 ped bounty that on his head and 0 ped on card, but loot worth 550 ped in hand that he can sell at markup, and there's no need to get into negative ped balances.

Bounty hunter can then hunt the pirate for the 550 ped on his head that are reserved in a bounty pool (space ped flow center maybe).

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I suggest the every pirate should have a bounty placed on his head on the exact amount of tt that he / she will loot in space.

If / when the pirate is killed and looted in space, this bounty that accumulates is withdrawn from the pirate ped card and given to the looter in tt ammo, even going into negative ped balance for the pirate. If negative ped balance, then the pirate can not repair / buy ammo until ped balance comes back into positive by selling stuff to tt.

This would stimulate pirates profession as well as the counter profession of bounty hunter. The bounty hunter will seek pirates with big bounties on their heads, and clear those bounties. Clearing bounties is not considered a piracy act and will not result in a bounty, though looting stackables can still add a bounty to the bounty hunter himself.

Of course there are drawbacks, and some rules should be applied like only a blue karma pilot can loot the bounty and not from same soc, so they don't loot clear their own bounties, but overall it could work...

'

I like the idea of a bounty, but it will be abused. It has been in every game that implements it. Here's what happens:

Player A gets a bounty on their head.

Player A collects a few more.

Player A then calls their friend, Player B and says "hey come kill me and I'll split the bounty with you."

Player B says "Sounds good, cya in 5 minutes."

Edit:

I missed the part where it said withdraws the bounty from their PED card.

OK, well.... if I were a pirate the first thing I would do is always make sure my PED card read 0 PED before I went flying/hunting.

 

[siremi]

'

I like the idea of a bounty, but it will be abused. It has been in every game that implements it. Here's what happens:

Player A gets a bounty on their head.

Player A collects a few more.

Player A then calls their friend, Player B and says "hey come kill me and I'll split the bounty with you."

Player B says "Sounds good, cya in 5 minutes."

It's got it's drawbacks yeah...

You could use the karma system though, so a higher karma allows you to collect more bounty / kill and you don't have to give out the bounty all at once but in portions depending on karma.

-> Fair karma can collect up to 50 ped bounty / kill, higher tier blue karma 200 ped / kill, higher tier 300 ped / kill etc.
-> Also, one bounty hunter can collect bounty from each pirate avatar every 6 hours.

It makes it harder to clear their name and uses the existing system, it's better then nothing I guess... if you want pirates, you also need a police or mercenary force for balance.


If this gets implemented, you would have bounty hunters present while pirates are attacking and those bounty hunters with high karma will jump pirates the minute they start looting / getting bounties. You would see pirate vs. bounty hunters battles and traders hiring bounty hunters for protection / safe transport if / when logout feature gets fixed

Karma should also be more visible, and a trader wanting to hire protection should be able to check the karma and high karma avatars should not be able to loot stackables, just bounties. Then, traders will be willing to hire some protection

 

[Farmer Smurf]

Of course there are drawbacks, and some rules should be applied like only a blue karma pilot can loot the bounty and not from same soc, so they don't loot clear their own bounties, but overall it could work...

A lot of the pirates, are already using 2 computers to run 2 accounts, using 1 as a watcher, and the other as a killer.
This bounty system would not work..Pirates would simply collect their own bounty with their alt avatars.

 

[JD RACING]

the only way to put a bit of fairness the pirate can only loot what he going to risk himself

that way there they have even more poeple they can loot win win they can loot each other

 

[MG Mighty]

the only way to put a bit of fairness the pirate can only loot what he going to risk himself

that way there they have even more poeple they can loot win win they can loot each other

There is a game where some skill is important,
that follows such rules.

Nobody would play NLHE if the other player could go all-in (with lets say) 1 USD and win the stack that others put dozens of times more.
In that game you can only win what you risk to loose.



In real life pirates risk to loose a very important aspect

their life.



Here the risk is so low that many were doing just for kicks
and
without any kind of expectable return back
(in pvp3 & pvp4 if you killed somebody without loot on them at least you would be compensated with part of the toxic shot they had to pay to enter that zone).