New Mining or Old Mining?

[Strangelove]

There's a petition thread on new mining with 30 pages of responses and 10k views. Obviously, it's a topic of interest. What's missing from that thread is that's designed to only record those who want the old mining system restored. So I figured I'd create a poll to be more inclusive.

For the record, I voted no preference. There are aspects to the new new new mining I like and aspects of the new new old mining I like....and dislike.

I like the multiple drops and fewer stretches of 50% returns. I also liked the hofs and globals which are rare now, at least for me. I don't like getting 5 - 10 ped each of different minerals on a 200 ped run as it's hard as hell to build up a nice inventory so I get a decent amount of minerals to sell at auction.

CO

 

[Dave Stevens]

how about canning this one and starting one that includes all the options, including the slider option which a number of people think is ideal as it allows those who want big swings and excitement to have that, but those who want steady returns to have that. So neither factions screws over the other just to get their way.

 

[Strangelove]

how about canning this one and starting one that includes all the options, including the slider option which a number of people think is ideal as it allows those who want big swings and excitement to have that, but those who want steady returns to have that. So neither factions screws over the other just to get their way.

I thought about that but we already have a slider. They are called amps.

 

[c0m4ndo45]

I thought about that but we already have a slider. They are called amps.

Exactly. Like extreme gambling? Amp up... not enought? go to foma

 

[FallenAngel]

how about canning this one and starting one that includes all the options, including the slider option which a number of people think is ideal as it allows those who want big swings and excitement to have that, but those who want steady returns to have that. So neither factions screws over the other just to get their way.

aah, the "i want to be screwed twice option". aka the turkeys voting for christmas brigade.... )

 

[Futurama]

I thought about that but we already have a slider. They are called amps.

That's not completely true. With mining amps it's the same situation as unamped.

 

[S4400Salvation]

 

[jqkill]

That's not completely true. With mining amps it's the same situation as unamped.

yep. same exact situation, cept your finds are proportionately larger as you amp up. but definitely not 'old vs new'

 

[Neil Stockton]

I thought about that but we already have a slider. They are called amps.

I don't think you thought about it enough. Amps are nothing like the crafting slider, nor do amps bring back the "old style" of mining. Mining with amps these days is just as "boring" as mining unamped, only you spend more per drop and lose a percentage to amp MU.

The problem with the new system is that all claims are uniform. Of course, half of the players feel this is not a problem at all.

The only solution that will suit everyone is to create a finder attachment that that converts your finder to the old loot style. TT return would be the same, it would merely increase the variance of claim sizes. They could even put a slider on this to amplify the variance even further than the old system for those who want to really gamble.

 

[Rutabaga]

Ohhhhhhhhhno here we go again

Mmmm sliders

 

[c0m4ndo45]

Ohhhhhhhhhno here we go again



Mmmm sliders

There we go! Thats what we've been missing all along. Please add another voting option: Bacon.

 

[Eldaii]

The only solution that will suit everyone is to create a finder attachment that that converts your finder to the old loot style. TT return would be the same, it would merely increase the variance of claim sizes. They could even put a slider on this to amplify the variance even further than the old system for those who want to really gamble.

And never we will see anything like this :

what if 99% of the miners use the "new" and 1% use the "old", the game would create false ath for those 1%?

I got serious doubts^^

 

[FallenAngel]

I don't think you thought about it enough. Amps are nothing like the crafting slider, nor do amps bring back the "old style" of mining. Mining with amps these days is just as "boring" as mining unamped, only you spend more per drop and lose a percentage to amp MU.

The problem with the new system is that all claims are uniform. Of course, half of the players feel this is not a problem at all.

The only solution that will suit everyone is to create a finder attachment that that converts your finder to the old loot style. TT return would be the same, it would merely increase the variance of claim sizes. They could even put a slider on this to amplify the variance even further than the old system for those who want to really gamble.

only, the claims are no longer uniform, and asking for more "gambling" options is as stupid as it gets, or do you know nothing of the problem associated with losing gamblers, know nothing of the years of this game being called nothing but a casino, all those more casual players quitting because they could not or would not handle the wild swings in loot, MA listened, and i guess, the gamblers complain now?
the only problem with this change to mining was MA, they are a bit incompetent, and a subtle change between wild loot swings/constantly the same claim size, is something that takes them a while to get right.

we have amps, we have foma/hell, plenty of other options for risk taking in this universe..

 

[Xavier Target]

On 1/16/2013 there were 2,166 people on tracker with at least one global in mining during the past 30 days. today there are 1,337. There are also 340 less people globaling in crafting. Hunting is up, but with the new lower global threshold any comparison is useless....


Question is how many of those 750 people no longer globaling in mining are still just as active in EU

 

[Strangelove]

On 1/16/2013 there were 2,166 people on tracker with at least one global in mining during the past 30 days. today there are 1,337. There are also 340 less people globaling in crafting. Hunting is up, but with the new lower global threshold any comparison is useless....


Question is how many of those 750 people no longer globaling in mining are still just as active in EU

And I used to get 60 plus globals a month using level 3 amps....often 3 a day or more on good days. I was usually in the top 100 miners monthly.

Now, I get maybe 10 globals a month and am lucky to crack the top 400 on tracker on a monthly basis.

Basically, I am saying the tracker data is fairly useless.

I am getting more hunting globals now that they lowered the threshold to 10 ped on some mobs.....WOOT!

 

[montekis]

Good mining, bad mining...
new mining, old mining...
Whatever mining...
Or maybe less whining?

I think realizing the last line would make the biggest difference.

Peace.

 

[Profit]

On 1/16/2013 there were 2,166 people on tracker with at least one global in mining during the past 30 days. today there are 1,337. There are also 340 less people globaling in crafting. Hunting is up, but with the new lower global threshold any comparison is useless....


Question is how many of those 750 people no longer globaling in mining are still just as active in EU

Yea, the numbers speak for themselves but the fanboys have their heads firmly planted in the sand.
This new system doesn't work, not just for me, but for the whole of EU. Open your eyes.

 

[-Archangel-]

On 1/16/2013 there were 2,166 people on tracker with at least one global in mining during the past 30 days. today there are 1,337. There are also 340 less people globaling in crafting. Hunting is up, but with the new lower global threshold any comparison is useless....


Question is how many of those 750 people no longer globaling in mining are still just as active in EU

If there is more random variation then higher than "break even" loots will happen more often.

Mining loots are different, less variation will mean obviously less players having globals.

What concerns me more is that a viable mining habit of many of my friends is no longer a valid way to mine that frustrates them since the ways that seems to work a bit is either more boring or more brainless (or both).

 

[Thedarksnw]

There was a 34k tower day ago, stop blindly trolling pls.

 

[xXSqUaLLXx]

I think that recent changes, on crafting / mining (and hunting apparently) are good things for our universe.
However, as many people mentionned, I believe that the changes made are too drastics.
But I also think that Mindark is gonna tweak the system so that we see more variances like before,
hopefully some mining improvements, which leads to real difference, and a point in being level 100 miner/ prospector.
Personnaly, I prefer the old system to the new, because of the boreness induced by very low variance.
And the ATH possibility carrot, has been changed, from "omg another noob ath", to "omg no noob ath, but barely anything big around anyway".
which is very bad
Noob ath mining was horrible for the dedicated miners, but when it happened, at least you would think : "If I was also there at the time and spot he dropped, I could possibly have gotten it instead".
Psychologically, it was tough, but it was a good extra caroot that induced "hope" in peoples mind.
I do remember so many times I got uncontrolled anger because of such things tho.
but it still felt better than current system, as it is for now.
still, what matters the most, is that Mindark make a worthwhile experience to old & new players.
and I can't say that what they have been doing is not going in the right direction.
Make us a "game" we can be proud of, more and more Mindark

 

[LUCmarius1]

^rep to Squall

6 weeeks without log in EU....

 

[sndlwood]

I've been mining every day for years and I keep reading about "new" mining. I'm a little lost. When did a change take place to mining? What change exactly?

Recently my mining results have sucked, but I attributed that to a low-loot cycle which happens all the time.

I'm going to hunt Prots soon anyway

 

[City Cat]

Giveus back old s..t

 

[aia]

I thought about that but we already have a slider. They are called amps.

No, amps are different.

Let's say you have a 5x (4x+bomb cost) amp:

if you have a consistent run (let's say 1 1 1 1 1), with amp you also have a consistent run (5 5 5 5 5).
If you have a "dynamic" run (let's say 0 0 0 5 0), with amp you also have a "dynamic" run (0 0 0 25 0).

what if 99% of the miners use the "new" and 1% use the "old", the game would create false ath for those 1%?

If your chance, using your mining style, to get an ATH is 0.0005% per drop, it will remain the same regardless of whether other people go for "old" or "new" mining system. If you are the only one going for ATH and everybody else for consistent returns, you will practically feed your own ATHs. The only different is that those who go for consistent returns won't pay for ATHs (and their chance of getting one would be very slim or non-existant to).
There is an exception of course: Someone with "n00b luck" getting a tower on first drop... on the other hand there will be players getting runs with <50% returns. But on the other hand those with <50% returns would have the option of selecting more steady returns and MA would have to adjust the "loot pool" to compensate for people who gets tower on first hit and then withdraws all.

 

[Strangelove]

No, amps are different.

Let's say you have a 5x (4x+bomb cost) amp:

if you have a consistent run (let's say 1 1 1 1 1), with amp you also have a consistent run (5 5 5 5 5).
If you have a "dynamic" run (let's say 0 0 0 5 0), with amp you also have a "dynamic" run (0 0 0 25 0).

Yes, I get it. Some people prefer six, some a half dozen. Quite honestly, I don't see the difference. Mining is just as boring amped getting VIIs all the time as it is getting II's unamped. Getting a VII every run or so unamped was just as boring. Consistent returns does have the advantage that fewer miners will run out of funds between "big" hits. The more people we have engaged in EU, the better regardless of how the returns are distributed.

If your chance, using your mining style, to get an ATH is 0.0005% per drop, it will remain the same regardless of whether other people go for "old" or "new" mining system. If you are the only one going for ATH and everybody else for consistent returns, you will practically feed your own ATHs. The only different is that those who go for consistent returns won't pay for ATHs (and their chance of getting one would be very slim or non-existant to).
There is an exception of course: Someone with "n00b luck" getting a tower on first drop... on the other hand there will be players getting runs with <50% returns.

As has been stated, ATH's and hofs only get you back to your normalized returns...and MA has always stated there is no personal loot pool. Mining returns are a function of supply and demand. The only way people will get an overall better return is for demand to increase. Which means we need more crafters and hunters to consume the mats we supply.

But on the other hand those with <50% returns would have the option of selecting more steady returns and MA would have to adjust the "loot pool" to compensate for people who gets tower on first hit and then withdraws all.

Good luck. MA is not going to adjust the loot pool to track the whims of every miner. Nor should they.

IMO, MA would be much off by engaging more people. Bring back beauty. Give people more clothing options. Definitely bring back taming. Make the malls usable to engage shop keepers. Develop space and create some deep space quests requiring people complete X number of missions on each of the planets before they can head off to the unknown thru some worm hole or hiring a MS to take them to there.

All in all, whether I get six or a half dozen, it does not matter to me. And regardless of what MA does, a certain number of people will not be happy.

Thanks to all those who voted. As usual, there are a fair number of people who are passionate about one option or the other.

Peace,

CO

 

[aia]

Yes, I get it. Some people prefer six, some a half dozen.

This was directed as those who'd think a "slider" would work like an amp, not to you.

MA is not going to adjust the loot pool to track the whims of every miner. Nor should they.

I brought in the concept of loot pool just to show there would be no impact (of returns) between "high-risk" and "low-risk" miner groups. I just ment that miners who want a low risk (of huge losses) doesn't have to pay for the ATHs they aren't chasing.

 

[Strangelove]

This was directed as those who'd think a "slider" would work like an amp, not to you.

I brought in the concept of loot pool just to show there would be no impact (of returns) between "high-risk" and "low-risk" miner groups. I just ment that miners who want a low risk (of huge losses) doesn't have to pay for the ATHs they aren't chasing.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and preferences. My only point is that things even out over time and the only way to do better is to increase demand for mats.

Thanks for your input.

 

[falkao]

I prefer the new system because nobody knows all the details yet.