No good/safe things left to buy in Entropia?

[Super Spesh]

Are you generating that?

At times, yes. What's your point?

 

[The Mind]

At times, yes. What's your point?

At what times?
13 ped per MA revenue is, for you, at 92% TT return, as a rookie, would be 162.5 ped/hr in cycling as hunter.

My point is:

you are not an "average" player

P.S. Furthermore, those numbers are an awful representation of things. 1.3$ in revenue per each player per each hour logged. With how many people afk in Entropia, this is far from representing anything average for an active gameplay.

 

[Super Spesh]

13 ped per MA rake is, for you, at 92% TT return, as a rookie, would be 162.5 ped/hr in cycling as hunter.

Which means I have been average every single time I picked up an LR-10 to shoot some creatures?

I am sorry if the point you are trying to make is obvious but I am missing it, let's try to stay on topic?

My point was OP having multiple tens of thousands of PEDs is not "average", I don't think the aim of the thread was to judge how much PED I personally spend per hour in this game but you seem to get a kick of picking fights with internet strangers so if it helps your ego in any way, shape or form: you are right. I am not average and spend less than 13 PED per hour as a rake to MindArk. You win this argument sir, and I hope it makes you feel good inside.

 

[The Mind]

Which means I have been average every single time I picked up an LR-10 to shoot some creatures?

How many hours, of those you were logged, you spent shooting from that LR-10?

My point was OP having multiple tens of thousands of PEDs is not "average", I don't think the aim of the thread was to judge how much PED I personally spend per hour in this game but you seem to get a kick of picking fights with internet strangers so if it helps your ego in any way, shape or form: you are right. I am not average and spend less than 13 PED per hour as a rake to MindArk. You win this argument sir, and I hope it makes you feel good inside.

I try doing my best in keeping forum free of BS, as any other player here who wants new players dont read that BS (and ive been corrected the same way in the past). Imho its one of those things that turn new players away. Because the reality of this forum seems not to match the reality of the game, when they log in (there is someone preaching 60% mining returns... again... just some hours ago...). Same i did with your "friend" when he was polluting your blog.
The problem of me standing out is: people get tired of doing it and, with time, ill become also. Hopefully there will be someone to pick up from there.

 

[Sub-Zero]

PLAYER TRUST! That's MA's most valuable resource. Trust takes very little to break, and takes a lot more to rebuild.
I'm one of those players who went all in one high eff gun. Paid 190k ped total for my bp-70 perf t9.
Yes I'm screwed, won't get the ped back. But I'm 98 looter now and made quite a bit of profit since i got it. Not enough to pay for the gun but still.
Yes I didn't think MA would screw so much with the weapons in the game so FAST. Otherwise I'd for sure not bought one at this price 1+ year ago.

But it's easy to say stuff like that in retrospect. At the time ppl were selling bc-80 aug at 250k, perf chip 250k etc.
So there really was no other choice at the time but to PAY a premium or wait. I chose to get it, and try my hands on getting a gun from vendor and selling it for 100k. I was very unlucky with rare tokens so I never had a chance to take a gun out and do that.

So yeah I got unlucky, but now I still got my gun so I'm good. And with weapons being cheaper I could even get another gun in the future for resist dmg mobs.

I just hope MA tries to respect some of player investments more in the future because losing player trust is not good for the whole game!

 

[TheOneOmega]

Its the opposite of buying "more expensive things" as market falls.
You average down when, you bought 50 shares at (lets say) 5, and they went to 4. Now you buy 50 shares at 4, and your average price, you paid per share, becomes 4.5 (you averaged down from 5 to 4.5).

Exactly, I initially read "buy other, more expensive things" as making larger overall investments rather than investing in items with larger unit values but I probably parsed the sentence wrong.

 

[atomicstorm]

Lately I have been feeling more and more hesitant whenever buying things in Entropia. It seems to me that while in real life, we are currently living in a world plagued by inflation where things are becoming more and more expensive every passing month, in Entropia, MindArk has managed to create a completely opposite situation; a universe where the price of almost everything is falling very fast. This causes me to feel that there is no longer anything left in Entropia that would be safe or smart to buy.

The worst one quite obviously is amors and that was of course very predictable. Over the last 6 or 7 years, MA has introduced so many new UL armors and UL armor plate chains, I think a lot of us saw that this would likely flood the economy flush with lots of UL armors and cause some disruption. And now it is. If you need proof, look at the price history for Mutated Aurli Bones. It has crashed, hard. For the last decade it has hovered between 400 and 600 PED, giving us an average of about 500. Now it is worth less than half that; roughly 200 PED.

Further proof of prices of armors dropping, look at Mayhem (L) armor, we are nearing an average price of about 120% per part. Perseus, same thing. Perseus used to cost 145%, for almost a decade. What about the other popular mid-level armors like for example Angel (L), Tiger (L) and Martial (L)? A lot of the parts are now selling at almost Nanocube conversion rates, it almost not even worth listing on auction anymore. Who benefits from this? Certainly not the hunters who loot them. Does MA somehow benefit from crashing these MUs? I don't think so, I think it's in MAs interest to keep MUs up higher if at all possible. Why flood the economy with so many armors and crash MUs like that then?

And for Deeds it's a similar story. So many Deeds have been issued lately that it's now affecting other shares; Ancient Greece and Crystal Palace shares are both at their lowest ever on the history graph. Ark Moon Deeds too. Calypso Deeds are up probably only becausse of the split which artificially pumped up the demand for them. Somehow Ark underground is up, I have no idea why. But the general trend in Shares/Deeds remains that a flood of new shares into the economy is now causing a general decline in all share/deed prices, and so that is also not a safe place to invest in Entropia.

As for UL weapons, wow. Did everyone see those "almost" free Rare Tokens that were given out at Resource Mayhem? Do you still think that an expensive UL weapon could be a safe place to park your money?

The problem here is well, if it's no longer "safe" to buy anything in Entropia anymore, then why even play? MindArk used to be careful with this, for the longest time, it was safe to buy armor, it was relatively safe to buy Deeds; CLDs were going up nonstop for a decade after being released. Weapons were a pretty good investment for a while.

Tell me: Who benefits from these crashing prices? If players see the value of the things they bought drop month after month, does that encourage them to buy other, more expensive things? If new players observe this, does that encourage them to spend a lot for good UL items or Deeds/Shares? If trust in the game's economy evaporates, who benefits?

Trolling folks aside, the market is not in a good place right now.

 

[atomicstorm]

Are you generating that?

The quoted is out of context. They are saying that the average player generates 13 ped per hour of revenue TO Mindark and that is a very serious amount of money and a considerable rake. And we get very little in return in terms of bug fixes, exploit fixes, and new innovative content. We get placated with very weak marketing campaigns (IG/facebook bullshit) and rinse/repeat events.

The depression of people's returns and values is because there's less folks playing and cycling (e.g being more selective) than previously = more volatility = more unhappiness, etc.

We pay so much on decay rakes (pyramid scheme/looter system) and auction house fees, people just don't know.

 

[castanhas]

problem was , to a very few increase their only source of income for a couple of years, mu was completly destroyed due to overscale of cycle and itens drop.
Wonder why they want auto-mining/ easier mining?
just so they can milk the cow a few more months before they kill it.

 

[theProphet]

keys for boxes? quite good in this universe, totally safe until used, and swedes can't have them. +1 reason(s) to buy/invest

 

[The Mind]

The quoted is out of context. They are saying that the average player generates 13 ped per hour of revenue TO Mindark and that is a very serious amount of money and a considerable rake. And we get very little in return in terms of bug fixes, exploit fixes, and new innovative content. We get placated with very weak marketing campaigns (IG/facebook bullshit) and rinse/repeat events.

The depression of people's returns and values is because there's less folks playing and cycling (e.g being more selective) than previously = more volatility = more unhappiness, etc.

We pay so much on decay rakes (pyramid scheme/looter system) and auction house fees, people just don't know.

That figure is extremely deceptive. Apparently it takes, as a base, every player and every hour spent online. Which, if we take only active "hours", without diluting with AFK masses, would be much much higher.
I mean... i have a support ticket open, what will be 3 months soon. I dont know of any company in the world that would treat its customers like that.

 

[atomicstorm]

That figure is extremely deceptive. Apparently it takes, as a base, every player and every hour spent online. Which, if we take only active "hours" would be much much higher.
I mean... i have a support ticket open, what will be 3 months soon. I dont know of any company in the world that would treat its customers like that.

It's an average. Some will do more, some will do less.

Also, they wouldn't treat their customers like this. That's why, if unchanged, they will fail severely with a UE5 overhaul when they open it up to Epic store. They will be review bombed to oblivion and lose any retention.

 

[The Mind]

It's an average. Some will do more, some will do less.

I know, but its scewed, badly. Its just an awful metric. Unless you want to hide something, like you say: an exhuberant rake, which doesnt seem as bad when is divided among everyone.

 

[sachi.mk2]

I am not talking about reselling here, I am talking about the gaming experience for the average player. Probably 90% of players hunt and participate in the economy for the sole purpose of hunting. And I participate in hunting as well. Last year I bought some gear so I could hunt and skill mindforce and honestly, it sucks to see that everything I bought is worth a lot less now then what I paid for it. It wasn't always like this in Entropia, prices used to be a lot more stable.

There has been a precedent in the far past when unlimited SIB weapons were first introduced. Guns like the HL8 sold for 50k and then became 10k in a few years, the Emik x5 was 200k and then it became 50k and lower in a few years. I don't blame Mindark, they have largely ran the same events as normal, dropped a similar amount of items, it is for the players to decide on item value and factor in all the variables.

 

[Pogny]

whats make people spend ?

is the game at his current state make you wanna spend some real money in a context of inflation ?

I think its pretty obvious that MA doesnt care enough about players base to get more people willing to invest...

 

[ZPF]

I've always looked at UL gear as an investment. Investments fluctuate. Sometimes you hit the jackpot with something like the covid boom, sometimes MA floods the market with alternatives and screws you.
Gotta factor that in to your calculations.

If you're scared of price drops on your gear, you're probably using gear that's out of your league... You need to be cycling enough that a small haircut on your gear value every year is worth it...

Tell me: Who benefits from these crashing prices?

Me. I benefit! I quit mining because my beloved adjusted drill now costs 6-8k PED. It was 2k pre-covid. I'll come back when it's 2-3k again or MA adds crafted drills that aren't garbage

But realistically... Expecting most items to hold their value when MA is *expected* to keep adding UL gear and the playerbase is not growing is unreasonable. It doesn't make sense.

 

[endermigne]

Who benefits from this? Certainly not the hunters who loot them. Does MA somehow benefit from crashing these MUs? I don't think so, I think it's in MAs interest to keep MUs up higher if at all possible. Why flood the economy with so many armors and crash MUs like that then?

• low markup: players can't profit from selling the stuff they looted or crafted -> players need to deposit
• high markup: playing for profit is tough the lower your level is. Therefore, either they suffer and play low for years or they deposit (or leave the game...)

While you can take it slow for a while and try to even out your losses with free activities, that isn't something for everyone. Most play for fun and want to see some action.

Prices crashing across the board bring a huge smile to my face and a lot of other avatars I chat with in-game. Players are happy to finally be able to see gear close to being in financial reach.

That's true for those who are happy to see their avatar skill up and who are looking forward to do stuff for higher skilled players. So it's kind of limited to (L)-items. As soon as you buy (UL)-items you can be quite annoyed to see that you lose some markup. The only thing one can do here is keep the item and hope for better days.

Also note that sweaters, traders and such don't generate any revenue. Some only play maybe an hour per week. On the other end of the scale you have players that overcompensate that. The result is some overall average, which most can't really relate to. One can't simply apply their type of playing to others, the game provides too many opportunities for that.

While we had more players in the game, they caused more of everything to be in the game. As they left they also left an excessive supply of that. As usual some sold their stuff and others left their stuff in their storage/inventory to rot into eternity. Therefore, the prices were supposed to go down. They may even go down further until all those excessive items get consumed one way or the other.

Also keep in mind that MindArk can adjust the loot as they please or provide additional usage for stuff, e.g. new BPs. More/less players may or need not lead to that. In the end the market will correct itself and there are the ones who like that, who hate that and those who don't care.

 

[Super Spesh]

Also note that sweaters, traders and such don't generate any revenue. Some only play maybe an hour per week. On the other end of the scale you have players that overcompensate that. The result is some overall average, which most can't really relate to. One can't simply apply their type of playing to others, the game provides too many opportunities for that.

But that is the thing with averages... you cannot just simply remove non-paying players from the equation "just because" they don't pay. They have access to the same game as depositors and the same economy. Even players that only log in to chat and sweat... they still count! And their average cost of play is very minimal!

When you say "most can't really relate to", do you mean most Entropia players or most hunters ? Because there is a huge community of free-to-play players that can absolutely relate to the fact that the game can be cheap. It can also be crazy expansive, but it does not have to be.

 

[Dibbler]

Game has always been this way.
Anyone remember back in time when owners of mod merc, adj/imp/mod fap etc devalued after long discussions that they would always raise in prices?

As for reason for more drops, I would guess that MA are hurting some after Triton sale went so well. So at a guess resource mayhem was to increase ingame activity/spend (which seemed to work very well). However downside now ofc is that they need to fill up mayhem vendor again for people to spend those rares, along with possibly impacting value for previous owners of items pulled.

Until interest rates drop and people world over have more disposable income, many companies will be in survival mode. Mindark will do all that they can to keep their income up, thats just how it is.

 

[Sirhc]

Things have been fluctuating since TWEN with the influx of items from that event and some of the new items this year. In one hand it makes getting some gear less expensive but it also means taking a hit on what you have until things settle, if they do at all. Summer sell off season means more options for buyers and a more competitive sellers market in general.

I for one am happy to see items pop up in my normally anemic loot. I am even happier when its an item I can use or it will go towards some goal I am trying to achieve. I know full well going into buying some item or armor set that it will more than likely depreciate in value over time so I make decisions based on value to my game at that moment and time. The future? well who knows MA could change variables and devalue things further or the item that was of value to me might be worth more to someone else when I change my kit.

I think once a lot of these new items and older decent items find there way into hands of players that will use them long term things will probably reverse course due to scarcity. TWEN added a lot of items and people used a lot of PEDs for tokens to get them so in my opinion we are still feeling the effects of light bankrolls being hit with major events, like migration and summer mayhem, so there is just less buying power available. An item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it and its base PED value. Speaking for myself I know I've passed up on a couple upgrades because Eomon are PED card killers at this point and time. This isn't just an EU thing, I've had some parts of my comic and art collection increase in value a lot and other parts of it decline. It always fluctuates based on a variable market and I never consider any of it "safe"

 

[DRAGUNOV44]

I have been saying this for a long time. In this day and age most people wont pay that ammount of cash to buy something in entropia. MIndark if they cared to stay in busines need to rethink their game economy. ANd to make game more acessible . If they don't they will run out of people willing to spend that kind of cash !

 

[sorinel89]

My 2 cents:

1) Must say thanks MA for making C-80 (L) and C-120(L), these weapons will easily help me not buy an UL weapon for a long time (also because I am not a full time player) and they will allow me to wait until prices come down to real world terms not fantasy.

2) The only items I actually will/have spend/spent more money on are lifesteal ring combos because it makes my avatar immortal at 330 hp pretty much against any mob with mid range armors.

End of story, and as for UL weapons, high end armors, and other utopic prices items by players that live in Dreamland, they can stay there and rot until the rapture.

 

[endermigne]

When you say "most can't really relate to", do you mean most Entropia players or most hunters ? Because there is a huge community of free-to-play players that can absolutely relate to the fact that the game can be cheap. It can also be crazy expansive, but it does not have to be.

As I tried to get across, the game offers too much variety to boil it down to just a few things. Some hunters only do dailies, some you'll mostly just see in PvP-areas, some grind mobs in higher doable ranges, some grind mobs in lower or very low ranges, grinding for markup, ... Same goes with mining going unamped or max-amped and crafting with the various different BPs out there. And the rest of course

Only the PED-card is the limit...

 

[yomajo]

Impossible to satisfy all. So just remember you are in a game. Buy ammo, shoot mobs, enjoy.

On topic from buyer's perspective I'll buy UL higher eff weapon for 5k, not 20k.

 

[Kristoliquid]

It’s always been like that, bear shins used to cost tt+8k

 

[Mrjoseph]

pets, buy pets

 

[Bones]

Mindark answered the call for more weapons , and now the glut is being felt.
They are under no obligation to protect the free market , and those driving the prices up are those attempting to profit down the road.
You bought overvalued weapons to participate in grinding to profit , and were successful in that part of the process. Now once they have answered the call to add more weapons for the masses , you were caught with inflated prices on what you hold.
Resellers face this same problem , but what they have going for them is they absorb the loss since they have grown fat on an ever expanding valuation in whole. Moving from one pedsink to the next. They are able to react faster than someone who is grinding , since they are not making peds the same way.

My earlier post in this thread is a flippant statement on the level of trading the market can sustain.
Most that play the game are not sitting on hundreds of thousand of peds in inventory.
Possibly in 10 years it will be more common and numerous of a playerbase that a million peds in account valuation is the norm , its not today.
You are at the position in the game now , because you took the risks you did , and that is commendable in my eyes. Much the same as NEVERDIE took risks , but was met with a developer that is much less able to react as quickly as he needed.
The market correction on equipment prices is always absorbed , and the ones left without a chair are those that believed their own marketing campaign.

 

[Korin Dante MDe]

2) The only items I actually will/have spend/spent more money on are lifesteal ring combos because it makes my avatar immortal at 330 hp pretty much against any mob with mid range armors.

define mid-armor? some examples?

 

[jambon]

Nothing is/was ever immune to negative price movement in Entropia. Sure, there's been times where some things have had a run of stability but that's the nature of a RCE.

A lot of moves MA has been making has gradually led to a point of declining costs to play the game. Mostly by continuing to flood additional items into the game. And all with good reason - they need players and most people aren't rich. Many people are even unable to put several hundred dollars into a game at the low end of gameplay. The game hits a massive paywall when you go from noob to mid-level and as a result this becomes a very niche space which doesn't have much of a future in terms of scalability of the playerbase and profits.

More recently we've been seeing a larger dip in prices as a continuing result of mean reversion from the Covid boom. When Covid happened the price of everything shot up like crazy. Interest rates were super low so money was cheap, inflation was 0%, some places like the USA was literally giving free money to the citizens in the form of stimulus checks - I think most people got $2000 (almost 1 Trillion was paid out to citizens). And everyone had tons of time on their hands. Now, everyone back to work and is feeling the pinch from inflation and high interest rates across the globe. So they are liquidating all the stuff they have in this game while MA is continuing to release more stuff in an already saturated market.

They've also started releasing some crappier stuff that people can downgrade to. For example, look at the recent seasonal rings - they aren't the hot shit they once were in terms of what they can do or their uniqueness.

Honestly, this is why I can't bring myself to put more into this game than the bare minimum. Large investments are only really worth it if you are making an income at this game and even then, the risk level in doing so is getting higher by the year. I've been saying for a while now that for EU to persist another 20 years they need to rework their business model to lower the cost and overhead of the game.

 

[sorinel89]

define mid-armor? some examples?

Chronos, liakon, high tier Phantom, Tiger, Adjusted Jaguar and more. I class these as mid range.