Petition to Remove EP4

Rocket192

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So did this just die?

I'm assuming players just admitted defeat on the issue - someone should have run against ND for prez on the platform of removing these and they might have actually had a chance.

I'm periodically returning to EU just to see the economy has decayed a few more % every few months.
 

jambon

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Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

EP4 and other similar "gambling" BPs are a great way to separate the gambling community from the gaming community. For many years the markup of all common resources were artificially (and unnecessarily) inflated by people looking to gamble on the crafting terminal slot machine.

While this higher % for resources looked nice for miners it was actually hurting the economy a LOT. The main way was by holding back the proliferation of the L gear system. The limited gear system is CRITICAL for a sustainable economy that works at scale but that's a whole discussion for another day. Suffice to say the Armatrix series of gear has been a fucking GAME CHANGER for many. Highly efficient, decent supply/demand ratio, good markup for hunters and crafters alike...etc.

Back then a system like the Armatrix series of weapons would not have been possible due to the hyper inflated costs of basic materials. The only solution would have required a complete overhaul of resources and crafting recipes across the board.

If you actually take the time to look at the Armatrix series blueprints you can see they all use common crafting components like Hardened Clips, Simple Conductors, Standard Plates, Standard Vents, Basic Screws, Basic Structure...etc that are used in making those guns and amps. All of which heavily rely on use of common materials like Oil, Belk, Melchi, Lyst, Iron, Blau...etc.

If all those materials went back up to 130%+ because all the people gambling using TT nanocubes are now buying those resources at any markup just to fill their need to gamble the cost of armatrix guns will shoot up to 200% and NO ONE would use them. Thereby hurting everyone.

To anyone that knows how "economy" works (hint "economy" does not mean the markups on items, it more refers to the flow of money through the game) the game is actually doing better than ever from a sustainable economy standpoint. It's not perfect but there's been a lot of steps in the right direction for this. Yes common miners are kinda taking it up the butt right now as there is a disconnect between hit rates and the markups of common resources that hasn't been adjusted enough since these changes... However in time I suspect this will change. I think it will take time and be subtle though, part of me thinks MA doesn't want a lot of miners. If mining is too attractive people won't be hunting which is really the profession that the entire economy hinges on. There has to be substantially more hunters than any other profession for this economy to work.

Personally, I could see a loot 2.0 coming for mining in the future to help balance mining to make it "more affordable" as has been MA's trend of motivation as of late. As well, I can see proliferation of the armatrix series into the armor realm. The hint of adding/using professional level requirements for armor really point to this as an eventuality.

Anyways, the days of all resources having markups of 115% - 130% for things like belk are gone, you need to adapt to the new way things are as petitioning to restore the ways of old is nothing but an exercise in futility.
 
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thoreau

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Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

Snip lots of words
All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.
 

GradenFoss

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All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.
I would assume that MA wants to assure that anyone at any given time can engage in high end crafting doing as much attempts as desired. Therefore you have to make certain that all needed resources are always available. You cannot rely on just how much hunters and miners are able to come up with and offer to the market.

:dunno:
 
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Rocket192

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I would assume that MA wants to assure that anyone at any given time can engage in high end crafting doing as much attempts as desired. Therefore you have to make certain that all needed resources are always available. You cannot rely on just how much hunters and miners are able to come up with and offer to the market.

:dunno:
if this is the case then wanna be able to buy lvl 13 mining amps and mayhem 100 guns from the TT
 

jambon

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All they had to do was make new resources for EP crafting. Then normal crafting could operate without being affected.
Normal crafting WOULD be affected. And they did add a new resource... They are called nanocubes and they don't affect the markup of resources found in mining as they are from the TT. And this was the whole point - to separate these gambling activities from interacting with the markups for the rest of the system.

If they added new mined resources that were only used in crafting EPs the markup on those resources would be very high and availability to gambling crafters 24/7 would be a serious concern. I doubt miners could keep up with the demand - do you have any clue how many hundreds of thousands of peds are burned in EP style runs each week? It's easily 100,000+ peds a day cycle. Personally I've done a 20,000-25,000 ped cycle in a single day and I'm on the very low end of run bankrolls when I want to go "hog wild" on an EP run. There's tons of people that will grind out on those for 6+ hours a day straight with back to back 500+ (10,000 peds) click runs.

Anyways, as a result it would skew the mining profession pushing people to just mine that one resource and would inevitably push gamblers away from EPs as it would be cheaper and easier to go back to gambling on mining amps and other items with many other resources that are readily available.

Right now being able to get the resources (nano cubes) as much as you want, any time you want, with 0 markup right from the TT is one of the biggest motivators for gamblers to keep gambling with those BPs.

Again, the solution to increasing the economy is not to get the gamblers using mined resources again but instead to increase usage and availability of good limited gear IE armatrix style series. As more people use armatrix guns, faps, armor, amps...etc. Demand for common resources will go up and so with the markup.
 

Rocket192

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Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

Anyways, the days of all resources having markups of 115% - 130% for things like belk are gone, you need to adapt to the new way things are as petitioning to restore the ways of old is nothing but an exercise in futility.

i refuse to subscribe to an environment that prevents even the most heavily invested/top-tiered players from profiting with the best edge available (excluding events - seems all ubers solely make income from those now)

see, id. Sokolade


if someone isn't winning then no one wins in the end.
 

Rocket192

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Normal crafting WOULD be affected. And they did add a new resource... They are called nanocubes and they don't affect the markup of resources found in mining as they are from the TT. And this was the whole point - to separate these gambling activities from interacting with the markups for the rest of the system.

.....

Again, the solution to increasing the economy is not to get the gamblers using mined resources again but instead to increase usage and availability of good limited gear IE armatrix style series. As more people use armatrix guns, faps, armor, amps...etc. Demand for common resources will go up and so with the markup.
Alternate theory: MA facillitated/encouraged gambling to their benefit by creating a TT resource with endgame-level cycle speed. And they did so at the expense of the rest of hte player base and conned most players into the "loot 2.0" farce. Well-intended for sure, MA needs to make moeny, but money wouldn't be such a problem for them if they could retain players.

Player A shows up, is excited, loves the game, depos $500, loves it more, depos $500 more again every month until lvl 50-60, understands the game, realizes there's little-to-no path to profitability without sinking several years into the game, and then leaves and MA loses that player's monthly depo

Player B shows up, depos their lunch money, then does low level activity while shitposting in #rookie like it's a 4chan board.

Player C created an account pre-2012, made some money, depoed a bunch, and achieved high skills not attainable in less than 2 years, depoed more, acquired the best 1 out of 3 setups to hunt in game, and then continues on making money from seasonal competitions

Player D shows up, depos $100k, rigs auctions, creates bots, has alts for more auction posts, and serves no purpose other than to recycle UL SIB gear at a premium after low-balling "sell-out" threads.

the only contributing player left is player C - so long as they don't get old, die, quit, do other stuff (top 0.05% of EU playerbase due to lack of gear) who accounts for most of MA's revenue and harvests money from other players through their merry mayhem donations and general degenerate cycling habits before they quit after their 3-4 month stay

This practice is completely unsustainable on literally every single level of business and economics. only so many people in the world and only so many give a shit about MMOs and RCE


instead of making the best with what you've got, MA is taking the quick payout to solve present problems with present solutions which lead to more issues down the road (see, calypso land deeds).
 
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Duhword

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Bad idea and will not happen. Here's why:

If all those materials went back up to 130%+ because all the people gambling using TT nanocubes are now buying those resources at any markup just to fill their need to gamble the cost of armatrix guns will shoot up to 200% and NO ONE would use them. Thereby hurting everyone.
people might still use them if they could get more than 100.1% markup on their resources that they hunted to get... markup is so bad at this point because crafting solely relies on armatrix weapons, I basically hope I drop shrapnel instead of loot. :/
 

Rocket192

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people might still use them if they could get more than 100.1% markup on their resources that they hunted to get... markup is so bad at this point because crafting solely relies on armatrix weapons, I basically hope I drop shrapnel instead of loot. :/
stop dropping guns/armor/faps in loot

problem solved

stop injecting more UL SIB into the economy when a shrinking playerbase can't support it


you literally have cartels of ubers buying the next high-dps output weapons solely to keep it out of hte hands of others so their competition revenue stream continues. so just stop releasing new ones until playerbase grows
 

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the only contributing player left is player C - so long as they don't get old, die, quit, do other stuff (top 0.05% of EU playerbase due to lack of gear) who accounts for most of MA's revenue and harvests money from other players through their merry mayhem donations and general degenerate cycling habits before they quit after their 3-4 month stay
Not all Player A's quit ya know... Level 55 and still grinding baby! although yes after my initial first 2 years I did realize it would take several more to get enough invested to realize the snowball effect that occurs with any type of investing... instead of quitting a lot of people will just reduce their monthly investment to an affordable and realistic amount.

I really do think the ARmatrix weapons are a good thing... however, they aren't the only thing. people making virtual investments do like real tangibility in their items, so if EU could try to release items at a rate that will keep the market values from continually and steadily dropping, I think more would stick around. I mean seriously, no one spends their savings on a weapon and then one year later is like "oh yeah baby its now worth half what I paid for it because the new FEN weapons are better than any previous weapons on paper".

I think the enhancer and tier upgrader idea is great... im excited to see what the future holds... all bugs aside, im quite proud of version 17.0.... a lot of work was done and it shows!
 

Duhword

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stop dropping guns/armor/faps in loot

problem solved

stop injecting more UL SIB into the economy when a shrinking playerbase can't support it


you literally have cartels of ubers buying the next high-dps output weapons solely to keep it out of hte hands of others so their competition revenue stream continues. so just stop releasing new ones until playerbase grows
I agree, maybe not stop... but when they drop in bundles of dozens the market sags... spread that shit out some... and seriously some enforcement on abusive play and market manipulation would go a long way... I mean who hasn't experienced player 2 up bidding his friends auction that started at no markup just to cheat out the market fee.
 

Rocket192

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I agree, maybe not stop... but when they drop in bundles of dozens the market sags... spread that shit out some... and seriously some enforcement on abusive play and market manipulation would go a long way... I mean who hasn't experienced player 2 up bidding his friends auction that started at no markup just to cheat out the market fee.
if they stopped putting them in event prizes then players wouldn't bother participating and ubers would probably just stop bothering if MA replaced them with UA or something

legally they can't give out peds
 

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if they stopped putting them in event prizes then players wouldn't bother participating and ubers would probably just stop bothering if MA replaced them with UA or something

legally they can't give out peds
I agree, their has to be incentive for every level of player for the economy to stay strong... but maybe they should give out other stuff... I think those prizes should be great, but I don't think they should be allowed to flood the market. make something new for a prize, give the ubers a starship, or UL warpship, make space suits that allow you to repair your ship without docking, who knows whatever they imagine... but more weapons and rings seems to be a bubble that will eventually burst.
 

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Only newbies and gamblers are loosing ...

I love people clicking EP all the time
I love high amp miners that sell cheap
I love it when they feed the system

Once you reached lvl 20-30 in mining skills it's enough to make profit cause then you can get any resource you want, it just needs brains, not more skills.

I love people clicking EP or use high lvl amps all the time, they feed the system where other players with brains + MA make profit from.
 

Rocket192

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Only newbies and gamblers are loosing ...

I love people clicking EP all the time
I love high amp miners that sell cheap
I love it when they feed the system

Once you reached lvl 20-30 in mining skills it's enough to make profit cause then you can get any resource you want, it just needs brains, not more skills.

I love people clicking EP or use high lvl amps all the time, they feed the system where other players with brains + MA make profit from.
You cycle like 5k peds a month man

anyone can make some money going unamped for really high MU

but you're dumbing down gameplay because there's no edge for miners at higher levels/tiers

if it were fair MA would put mining amps and big guns in the TT but they won't
 

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Rocket192

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You cycle like 5k peds a month man

you prolly mean like around 30K

And pls grow up and do not blame others when loosing
i'm not losing, i want a reason to start playing again.

can't get motivated, substantial changes haven't been made in game and those that have made it even more ridiculous.

and if you're under 200k/mo cycle you don't have a lot of room to give much, if any, statistical input on returns. Your cycle rate is just too low to reach a mean and have std devs up and down. Strash's thread already establishes returns over time always fall back to a mean 90-92% TT - anything above that is paid back in time.
 

jambon

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i'm not losing, i want a reason to start playing again. .
The community is not here to provide this to you. And MA is not going to overhaul the entire game just for one person to come back and pop a few bucks in only to get bored when it's not going their way and quit again.

I'm sorry if the game is not as you remember it or not as you want it to be. I'll be the first one to tell you this game isn't perfect. There's also a lot I would change about it. But,if you can't clearly see the reason to play which you are seeking in it's current state you know what you need to do.
 

GradenFoss

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if this is the case then wanna be able to buy lvl 13 mining amps and mayhem 100 guns from the TT
Well, it′s no secret that MA treats hunters, miners, crafters quite differently.

:dunno:
 

theProphet

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i rather suggest 200 PED per click EP5, so the gamblers can gamble properly, and the next publicity stunt can happen :laugh:
 

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Without EP gamblers you wouldn't how incredible low % metal residue.
Without low % metal residue, all limited crafted guns/amps would cost more to the buyer.
Armatrix would be unuseable as an example.

When EPs were introduced the amount of crafting INCREASED massively. If you removed EP these new gamblers will not automatically move to crafting stuff that requires materials with markup, they just will not craft.

EPs are not the problem, the lack of things to craft that people want to use is the problem, the massive amount of available unlimited. Gun drops in loot ..... etc


Rgds

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It occurs to me that if you want to remove "gambling" then instead of removing EP you remove the condition slider completely.
 
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San

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It occurs to me that if you want to remove "gambling" then instead of removing EP you remove the condition slider completely.
Now there is a thought. The condition slider is actually a relic from times under different paradigms. For the purpose of crafting Explosive Projectiles and Metal Residue it is not needed at all. The ulterior motives for EP blueprints' introduction was what I wanted to know with this AMA question which has never been answered.
 

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It occurs to me that if you want to remove "gambling" then instead of removing EP you remove the condition slider completely.
That would suck for L guns.
 

mastermesh

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Instead of removing it, just add MORE alternatives.

Add a 'big A$$ Nucular Grenade Launcher' that does 3 million damage and uses a ton of explosive ammo...

Then do similar with mining and create a mega probe one one click finder for it that can go down a million miles.
 
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