QUICK MENTAL MATH for shots per min, vs shrapnel for new players.

[Stradaverua]

if you have a gun that uses 100 ammo per shot, and shoots 75 times per min. that is 7500 uni ammo per min gone, and shrapnel is a 100:101 ration so 1%, so without breaking it down, the first two numbers of shots fired or 75 is 1%. so you need 7425 shrapnel to replace the 7500 univeral ammo you fired.

so you look at how many shots are fired per min, say 35 shots per min. and assume your maxed in that weapon. now look at ammo consumption say 300.

so thats 300 universal ammo per trigger pull, and you should auto shoot 35 times in a min. so just mentally multiply 35x3 thats 105, then add those zeros you left off 10500 uni ammo per min, and to know how much shrapnel needed to replace it. just subtract the first three number on this one to get the 1%, and know you now need 10395 shrapnel to replace it.

so you can calculate on the fly without always needing a calculator. ALSO GOOD FOR WHEN YOU ABOUT TO DROP PED BUYING A NEW GUN while leveling up, you do not want the GUN to drain your ammo, and you start going into a DEEP PED-HOLE leveling up.

also it is a very good way to know how much shrapnel the mob drops, so you can find the right GUN that does not Overshoot so much your coming up extremely Negative in the PEW PEW department. and even find a gun that will get the job done, and leave you ammo positive. <wont happen often. but better to have more than far less.

So a gun shoots 10 damage per shot, at 75x per min. that is 750 damage in one min, so divide 60 into it. and that is 1.2 DPS. this gun is only costing you 7500 rounds ammo a min.

Vs the 35 shots x say 20 damage per shot thats also 750 damage per in one min, or 1.2 DPS and it costs you 10500 per 35 trigger pulls. IT IS THE WORSE GUN. for ECO hunting. it costs more shoots slower, for the same damage over time, just more PEW per shot. assuming you dont miss. but it is still more EXPENSIVE over time. and not as ECO friendly.

so for noobs in the pistol department. the MANN unlimited pistol with 75 shots per min. is more ECO than the MANN deluxe at 35 shots per min. and does the same damage. at less shrapnel/ammo cost.

 

[Love Banjo]

as new buy the gun from
tt-machine.. not any ¨¨ mann pistol¨¨

 

[Stradaverua]

SO even if a gun can drop a mob in 3 trigger pulls and does stupid damage and its 80% efficient. if you do this math.

a gun that kills the same mob in 6 or 7 trigger pulls and is 70% efficient, with same attachments. will over time save you more in ammo cost. and that could bout 10-20-30% and that adds up. and this game is all about the pennies. or PEC.

so glad you took down 12 mobs in 36 shots costing you 20k ammo

I took down 12 mobs in 72 shots costing me 15k ammo and that puts me up 5000 or 5 PED. assuming we got equal loot

 

[Stradaverua]

as new buy the tt gun not any ¨¨ mann pistol¨¨

I was just making a point. cause new players like shiny shiny and do not think and not thinking in this game can cost you.. A LOT!

 

[Love Banjo]

and

also it is a very good way to know how much shrapnel the mob drops

can u please tell how i do that so that i can hof on every kill i do

 

[Stradaverua]

and

can u please tell how i do that so that i can hof on every kill i do

i new so not sure what HOF is...but
i have noticed there is a shrapnel to loot ratio for each mob, some mobs drop more shrapnel than loot, and some more loot than shrapnel.

so you get a average over time, say 100 or 300 kills. and see what the average amount of shrapnel is, excluding global or these HOFs where they drop like 1000s ped worth or more. and is it more LOOT or more SHRAPNEL.

then you can start to know what you want. more LOOT or more SHRAPNEL.

like punys at icarus they drop more shrapnel over loot
but the avertts on cyrene drop more loot than shrapnel
the paneleons drop more loot over time 200 kills or so. and being 800 kills into them i know if i want loot, with a average amount of shrapnel kill them.
i i want more loot go kill avetts. being about 500 kills into them.

so if you are killing mobs that seem to visually have equal splits in ammo to loot take a long term average. and those tiny numbers will show you who is better to kill.

you might have to take quick notes after every kill like i was doing.

that is how i found planet Cyrene to be better for PED for lowbies, and after 2 weekends. or 6 days on cyrene i cam back with 120 total ped. where on caly killing puny, bots, and berts i was only up 40 ped on loot but going postive in my ammo. as they drop more shrapnel overall than cyrene, but are less profitable when it comes to loot drops worth MarkUp

 

[Svarog]

Your line of thoughts reminds me very much of someone not so new I had an argument with recently about using non-SIB weapons at low level. I also like how you capitalized "HOF" in the reply while presumably not knowing what that is

But if I'm wrong, I suggest you to start including decay in your cost math.

 

[The Great Adventurer]

also it is a very good way to know how much shrapnel the mob drops,

This changes based on the Damager Per PEC (DPP) of which was calculated when you kill the mob. That calculation includes things like your armor decay, heal tool decay, weapon decay and ammo cost. The higher the DPP the more non-sharpnel you typically tend to loot.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

While the game does need a sound mind to be successful, you can also think too hard. you are focusing on mostly irrelevant things and coming up with false conclusions. I did the same thing when I was new too, I'm sure we all did.

Get rid of the Mann guns, use bukins, barbarella or trade terminal weapons instead. If you want to be eco, use maxed SIB weapons, specifically, make sure your Hit ability and Critical Hit ability are both 10.0/10.0.

Overkill really doesn't matter as much as you think it does, not with the current loot algorithm. All hunting costs including ammo, decay, armor and fap are all accounted for in your loot return. Think of this game as a slot machine, which works on paying out on a multiplier of your bet. The cost you incur to kill a mob is simply your placed bet. a 10x multi will win you 10 ped if it cost you 1 ped to kill the mob. Or win you 50 ped if it cost you 5 ped to kill the mob. Because the developers want to make money from us, the average multiplier is slightly under 1x, usually 0.95x for most players with mid range skills and gear. Some are luckier, some arent.

The small experiments you are doing to evaluate profitability between mobs/planets is pointless, loot swings operate on a much larger scale for you to draw any real conclusions. The only thing you have successfully deduced is that caly mobs will drop more shrapnel vs other planets where shrapnel rates are lower and substituted with crystals or oil residue. However overall TT balance is not affected. If you are to be more profitable on one mob/planet vs another, it will be because of the marketable loot composition that you will sell to other players, not the TT value of the returns.

Oh and please get a good mentor if you haven't got one already. On top of learning all this shit you also get some decent prizes upon graduating. Keep in mind the mentor gets a prize too so be careful when selecting one to make sure they aren't just signing you up for the reward at the end. I would mentor, and I'm amazing, but I'm retired now sorry. Now I'm just a fulltime forum troll.

 

[Stradaverua]

Your line of thoughts reminds me very much of someone not so new I had an argument with recently about using non-SIB weapons at low level. I also like how you capitalized "HOF" in the reply while presumably not knowing what that is

But if I'm wrong, I suggest you to start including decay in your cost math.

well i have heard the term HOF, like TWEEN or TWEN and found out from my society today what both mean Hall Of Fame, and Twenty Anniversary. I do take in account cost of weapon decay, attachments, repairs. and QUALITY of that decay poor to Exceptional. the only weapons i dont include in this list. MELEE cause that stuff decays so fast, and i dont use it. and sadly the money you make in Shrapnel and loot will go right to repairing and melee with their really high TT repair cost. and that is calypsos way of eating your profits.

 

[Stradaverua]

This changes based on the Damager Per PEC (DPP) of which was calculated when you kill the mob. That calculation includes things like your armor decay, heal tool decay, weapon decay and ammo cost. The higher the DPP the more non-sharpnel you typically tend to loot.

Well i was testing my theory again. i started with 2990 shots for my MANN low lvl pistol. ammo consumption is 100 with amp and scope 140. At the end of 3 hours and 1 global of 18Ped of shrapnel, i had 6240 shots for my Pistol converting all shrapnel to ammo. and only 6 trash gun drops and only one dropped with 100% TT value of .90. the rest were at 80% or less TT value.

so not even thinking of the DPP, which i have seen, just thinking that is now much TT it costs me per shot in PED. and not as a loot factor. seems that my theroy still holds. well at least at lower levels... i am going to keep testing this as i level up though. and with DPP now in mind. i will see if there is a real difference at all.

 

[Stradaverua]

While the game does need a sound mind to be successful, you can also think too hard. you are focusing on mostly irrelevant things and coming up with false conclusions. I did the same thing when I was new too, I'm sure we all did.

Get rid of the Mann guns, use bukins, barbarella or trade terminal weapons instead. If you want to be eco, use maxed SIB weapons, specifically, make sure your Hit ability and Critical Hit ability are both 10.0/10.0.

Overkill really doesn't matter as much as you think it does, not with the current loot algorithm. All hunting costs including ammo, decay, armor and fap are all accounted for in your loot return. Think of this game as a slot machine, which works on paying out on a multiplier of your bet. The cost you incur to kill a mob is simply your placed bet. a 10x multi will win you 10 ped if it cost you 1 ped to kill the mob. Or win you 50 ped if it cost you 5 ped to kill the mob. Because the developers want to make money from us, the average multiplier is slightly under 1x, usually 0.95x for most players with mid range skills and gear. Some are luckier, some arent.

The small experiments you are doing to evaluate profitability between mobs/planets is pointless, loot swings operate on a much larger scale for you to draw any real conclusions. The only thing you have successfully deduced is that caly mobs will drop more shrapnel vs other planets where shrapnel rates are lower and substituted with crystals or oil residue. However overall TT balance is not affected. If you are to be more profitable on one mob/planet vs another, it will be because of the marketable loot composition that you will sell to other players, not the TT value of the returns.

Oh and please get a good mentor if you haven't got one already. On top of learning all this shit you also get some decent prizes upon graduating. Keep in mind the mentor gets a prize too so be careful when selecting one to make sure they aren't just signing you up for the reward at the end. I would mentor, and I'm amazing, but I'm retired now sorry. Now I'm just a fulltime forum troll.

Well i have no way to test it at these levels. But i agree to this being a fact of the game, in light of your experience vs mine. Then we also must conclude the game is a giant casino. With a house full of gambling addicts in a sense. We also know, that the HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.

But what I also know about Casinos, being i have been to a few. That when you place small bets, you have a higher chance of winning, because they want to rope you into the BIG GAMES where they take it all back, and then suck your wallet dry. So assuming this is the model. It would be better for Higher level players who do not have the best of luck, to play the small game, for the small gains.

Like my Dad used to tell me, Pennies make dollars, and dollars make sense.

then if you choose, you can then take those dollars, and take a spin on the big boy wheel, and hope you hit a Jackpot.

But I do have a great tendency to look at the tiny workings of a thing, and overlook the entire picture in some cases. But with knowing the bigger picture in advance. maybe i can find a way to bend the odds.

The sad part is, once i figure a system out, or how to tilt odds in my direction depending if that can be done. Then everyone knowing can break the game. and stop my tiny chance of making a passive income playing a game. instead of my usual feed a game hundreds for nothing but entertainment in return.

but then again i will probably do that here, as long as i get to have fun, what's some money down the drain, if i am paying for fun. its no different than subbing to WoW, or some other pay based MMO. this just happens to be a game, that id played smart could pay you, and quite well.

THANKS FOR GIVING ME MORE INFO.

ill have to open this on my lunch break tomorrow and make notes its bed time.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

But what I also know about Casinos, being i have been to a few. That when you place small bets, you have a higher chance of winning, because they want to rope you into the BIG GAMES where they take it all back, and then suck your wallet dry. So assuming this is the model. It would be better for Higher level players who do not have the best of luck, to play the small game, for the small gains.

You are kind of correct in your hypothesis but have the wrong conclusion. Placing smaller bets in this game means increasing your damage per pec, which means killing the same mob but cheaper, usually by limiting the mob regen, limiting your armor/fap costs, or reducing your overkill. This doesn't directly increase your TT returns, but It indirectly will, because you will have generated more rolls of the dice, and thus your returns will likely be closer to the famed 95%. As the majority of your loot events will pay out around a 0.5-0.8x multiplier, short hunts with less kills generally have a lower return than one with more. Having a lower damage per pec simply means you will need a higher budget to achieve the same returns, but in theory your returns will end up the same.

The sad part is, once i figure a system out, or how to tilt odds in my direction depending if that can be done. Then everyone knowing can break the game. and stop my tiny chance of making a passive income playing a game. instead of my usual feed a game hundreds for nothing but entertainment in return.

If you want to make serious profit hunting there is really only one way to do it. Heavily invest in training your avatar up to use best in slot equipment, and buy that equipment, and grind like fuck. Follow Yazuki's story, he did exactly that and is now reaping the benefits. But be aware this will cost you a lot of up front investment. Feel free to ask him how much he has invested, it will likely floor you.
Free to play methods do exist but its all nickels and dimes. You can slut yourself out providing heal services and fund yourself that way, or sweat or pick up fruit, maybe try some trading. But you aren't making anything decent, you are really just going to sustain your gameplay and no more.

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

MANN low lvl pistol.

Don't use this weapon, your dpp has to be like fucking 1.5 dpp

Society Home base,

Shit society with that rule.


Read this

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...statments-pertaining-to-loot-post-2-0.263346/

and this

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

The tt loot system has been figured out time and time again. Or damn close to it.

Overkill matters since all resources are now worth 102% and Shrapnel is 101% So I'd rather geet 102% MU bare minimum than 101%

 

[Stradaverua]

Don't use this weapon, your dpp has to be like fucking 1.5 dpp

Shit society with that rule.


Read this

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...statments-pertaining-to-loot-post-2-0.263346/

and this

FYI: - How Loot Returns Work as Function of Looter Level and Efficiency, Based on Actual Data, as of March 3rd, 2022

Update 20220911: I have measured the effect on TT at three additional looter level points, using my method of extracting the lowest multiplier and with the reaper blade. The observed trend is still the same. I have placed the data at the end of this point along with a brief description. A...

www.planetcalypsoforum.com

The tt loot system has been figured out time and time again. Or damn close to it.

Overkill matters since all resources are now worth 102% and Shrapnel is 101% So I'd rather geet 102% MU bare minimum than 101%

Idk didnt look at DPP..so thank you..much appreciated

 

[Stradaverua]

You are kind of correct in your hypothesis but have the wrong conclusion. Placing smaller bets in this game means increasing your damage per pec, which means killing the same mob but cheaper, usually by limiting the mob regen, limiting your armor/fap costs, or reducing your overkill. This doesn't directly increase your TT returns, but It indirectly will, because you will have generated more rolls of the dice, and thus your returns will likely be closer to the famed 95%. As the majority of your loot events will pay out around a 0.5-0.8x multiplier, short hunts with less kills generally have a lower return than one with more. Having a lower damage per pec simply means you will need a higher budget to achieve the same returns, but in theory your returns will end up the same.


If you want to make serious profit hunting there is really only one way to do it. Heavily invest in training your avatar up to use best in slot equipment, and buy that equipment, and grind like fuck. Follow Yazuki's story, he did exactly that and is now reaping the benefits. But be aware this will cost you a lot of up front investment. Feel free to ask him how much he has invested, it will likely floor you.
Free to play methods do exist but its all nickels and dimes. You can slut yourself out providing heal services and fund yourself that way, or sweat or pick up fruit, maybe try some trading. But you aren't making anything decent, you are really just going to sustain your gameplay and no more.

Wow thanks for this info, and its good for new players to see. Much thanks. I. At work so ill be checking it out after.

Thank you

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Also i was told dont use that pistol. But it kills really fast, i dont have to keep paying mark up, i am almost doing max damage, my hit and crit are at 4.0something. Its not awesome but its cheap on ammo. And it is giving me returns at these lower levels..so right now it seems to work, maybe later as i lvl up i will feel the negative impact of it.

You will be losing more PED in “you have missed” shots than you would paying markup on a limited weapon. A 4.0 hit ability is exceptionally unprofitable long term, regardless of any short term profits you have had. Please trust us on this, all of us have said get rid of it, that’s not a coincidence

 

[Yazuki]

They leave because they want to make it in the game, but not listening to the advise of literally everybody when they tell him about not to use a lvl100 gun.
They keep using it, because they have an own theory about it is being good for them.

I think it's a good idea to take all advice with a grain of salt and if you have your own theory about how something works, stick with it until its proven wrong. Granted I think it's a terrible idea to be using the gun he is using, but there's been plenty of times where I was offered advice which ended up being wrong and I stuck with my gut instead. This will be an expensive lesson for him to learn, but at least he isn't going to have any doubts in the end(hopefully).

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

I think it's a good idea to take all advice with a grain of salt and if you have your own theory about how something works, stick with it until its proven wrong. Granted I think it's a terrible idea to be using the gun he is using, but there's been plenty of times where I was offered advice which ended up being wrong and I stuck with my gut instead. This will be an expensive lesson for him to learn, but at least he isn't going to have any doubts in the end(hopefully).

Your gut was right though because you were told the correct information or researched the correct information.


Some more helpful resources

entropiawiki: Tools: Weapon Compare V2

entropiawiki: Weapons

[Moderated: Removed off topic text]

 

[Yazuki]

Your gut was right though because you were told the correct information or researched the correct information.


Some more helpful resources

entropiawiki: Tools: Weapon Compare V2

entropiawiki: Weapons

[Moderated: Removed off topic text]

Only thing you can really do is just point them towards the correct information and it's up to them whether or not to listen to/believe it. The info on loot 2.0 all points towards lvl 100 guns being a money sink/void but if he doesn't agree then the only way to learn is to lose money finding out the hard way.

 

[Stradaverua]

You will be losing more PED in “you have missed” shots than you would paying markup on a limited weapon. A 4.0 hit ability is exceptionally unprofitable long term, regardless of any short term profits you have had. Please trust us on this, all of us have said get rid of it, that’s not a coincidence

im sure its absolute trash for me to use no doubt. i did stumble across one for my lvl but for some reason it is really expensive. so i researched it today on my lunch. and its is from OLD ARKAIDA TT. so i would guess that was some old version of the game, that no longer exists and it was a unlimited sold at a TT. and it has a 81 shot per min rate of fire.

so i am not downing you or anyone on this. the MANN was just there, cheap as dirt, 3ped, and seemed to work. and as i lvl it up the hit will go up. but that gun is get resold as soon as i can get better..cause it seems like a pretty yuck weapon hence why it cost 3ped.

and i found i like pistol over rifle just do not seem to be as many. till now i have been using primarily the Z11 barb.

 

[Stradaverua]

I think it's a good idea to take all advice with a grain of salt and if you have your own theory about how something works, stick with it until its proven wrong. Granted I think it's a terrible idea to be using the gun he is using, but there's been plenty of times where I was offered advice which ended up being wrong and I stuck with my gut instead. This will be an expensive lesson for him to learn, but at least he isn't going to have any doubts in the end(hopefully).

your right. and also i KNOW the gun is aweful. and have no intentions of using it once i hit pistol lvl 5, so i can get a better level weapon.

but i was told it was all about melee, i needed to melee..that the TT was the same...but it was not. the shrapnel I got almost never covered repair costs of the lvl 2 falcion falceion however it was spelled. the weapon went dead in no time flat, even when mixing it with my midforce. and i was like NAH gun and mindforce. im not paying that upkeep every 20 kills if i just went all melee, and 50 if i mixed it with mindforce.

but funny enough i only use limited mindforce chip, i have been using it non stop for what seems like since i figured it out on my 2nd or 3rd day in game. and that chip is still almost full. i like lacerate, good range and attack speed. not as slow as cyro with long range, or crossive short and low dps.

i also ditched the heal ball for the heal chip. which i like a lot more. that ball seemed to die constantly when i needed it most.

 

[Pi-]

.

 

[Nik-Elas]

Love the choice of title for this thread, this is truly "mental math"

Feels more like mental mess to me but that's just me.

 

[PreyNaika]

This was very informative i do regular profit now will sell all my efficient gear

 

[Msturlese]

i new so not sure what HOF is...but

You better wait for your mentor to get back from working abroad.
and if he taught you this, block him and get a new mentor.
this is the third weird thread in one week.
dont expose yourself, man, find someone that has time to spend and talk with him

 

[ChairmanEdgewise]

mental health matters

 

[The Great Adventurer]

This will be an expensive lesson for him to learn,

At the cost/min that weapon is able to produce it's not a bad choice for experimentation. It would take A LOT of grinding to create any sort of significant loss, however continuing down the path with a weapon which could cycle more does hit the ped card unless you know what you're doing and even then the those things are niche.

 

[Stradaverua]

You better wait for your mentor to get back from working abroad.
and if he taught you this, block him and get a new mentor.
this is the third weird thread in one week.
dont expose yourself, man, find someone that has time to spend and talk with him

but i am weird. and open and honest..

 

[Stradaverua]

This was very informative i do regular profit now will sell all my efficient gear

i know this is being umm, joking, but this is for new people. and my observations as a newb. but then that one person gave me a threat with all this broken down already.. so that is where i have been reading.