Question: Should Trading Forum Rule 5.1 be relaxed?

[GeorgeSkywalker]

Crazy talk.

It's not crazy. It has it's advantages and disadvantages like any method.

Having everything in game means:
- People have to have a clear SB (and buyout if they choose to have one). Which is good for everyone...
- There is no exploiting like a sale that is valid on forum but seller does not sell in game. As others pointed out above on forum this can't be enforced. So some do abuse it...

 

[shoti]

It's maily dead rule.

Mods don't have time to compare auction with threads and react only in fewcases ( reported )

PPL seling wools and hides don't bother mainly making threads. Big amount of ore's or components are advertised on forum anyway.

That rule hurting mainly mid lvl gear selers who want be ok and decresing sale of their stuff corse of that rule.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

why do you think this is the only place to sell stuff outside the game ?
ever heard of entropiabay for instance ?
if they close it here , other places would turn up just as easy.

True. Hunt them down and turn them all off!

 

[whiteknut]

It's maily dead rule.

Mods don't have time to compare auction with threads and react only in fewcases ( reported )

PPL seling wools and hides don't bother mainly making threads. Big amount of ore's or components are advertised on forum anyway.

That rule hurting mainly mid lvl gear selers who want be ok and decresing sale of their stuff corse of that rule.

You cant look at it only from seller point of view. I have "bought" many items on forum, once i even depod 10k peds, just to be told that item was sold in ingame auction already.

 

[Divinity]

Perhaps you pick and choose only certain sub-forums to read?

I guess you don't see any downside to useful forum pages as such as 'new posts' and 'forum spy' being being drowned by selling threads then.

Maybe you do not know that it is possible to exclude categories/sub categories from both "new posts" and "forum spy"

And maybe you think 711 has unlimited free time to manage access changes and payment handling for this paid sub-forum?

Maybe you first need to understand how VBulletin development works ( which you are presently clueless about). It does not much time to either develop a module or a hook to get any of the functions regarding payment handling done and it can be fully automated. When i said that the resource required can be compensated in the fees for listing, the whole idea was for it to pay for the development and ongoing bandwidth etc charges which might be increased due to the feature.

Whether 711 considers it worth it or not is a different story but then suggestions are made to be discussed and improved and thats how development happens.

So basically your comparison is as moot as your knowledge of the development process or what it requires.

 

[FallenAngel]

Kindly explain how the suggestion above pertains to the classical situation you are referring to.

The sellers on auction get to gain by having an extra medium of advertisement. Since its a separate section only individuals interested would have option to go through it and not being forced to look. The forum resource usage which would spike consequentially would be paid by those looking to advertise. Seems like a win-win for all or did i miss something?

I honestly have no clue as to how u associate the two situations.

it seems like a win-win to me too, i would go even further and question the forum resource usage spike, this place is dead, there are hardly any posts made compared to a few years ago, even if there is slightly more bandwidth used or other resources its a just a forum we are talking about.

And maybe you think 711 has unlimited free time to manage access changes and payment handling for this paid sub-forum?

its much simpler if the rule is just changed, it then costs 711 no free time making up access changes and a payment handling system.
if a change to the rules like the one suggested is positive for those trying to sell as well as those trying to buy, especially with certain niche products, i dont see why change itself should be a issue at all.

 

[Jimmy B]

I guess it was MA's condition in the first place so the forum wouldn't compete with the auction (and strip MA of their fees), so it's not 711 but MA we should appeal to in this case. Voted yes, anyway.

I vaguely recall something like this. Pretty sure the rule was around back in Mindbuster's day. 711 built a big auction system as an add-on to EF once too, that disappeared pretty quick, presumably at MA's request.

Personally, I think there's more than enough selling threads as it is, over half the items in New Posts generally I'd guess.

I think some improvements to the in-game auction system to reduce the need for forum selling threads would be better. An option to set length of auction to up to a month perhaps, with a decaying fee based on the length of the auction (e.g. everything up to 7 days as it is now, increasing to twice the normal fee for a month auction). Also bundled auctions (e.g. for sets of armour).

 

[corvette]

Also bundled auctions (e.g. for sets of armour).

That would be a huge advance Jimmy, good call.

 

[JohnCapital]

Hhm, ok so if we allow auctions to be promoted on this forum:

I recently sold most of my entire inventory on auction. (preping for certain purchase) If this rule weren't in place, I would've spammed this place with dozens of threads, each bumped once a day for 7 days or until BO was hit.

For those saying we should limit it to only high value items, how about a list of items that looks like this?

• Opalo SGA
• TP chip 1
• TP chip 2
• TP chip 3
• 7k novas (highest %MU of almost anything, though only 7 pec TT)
• Set of 6As (7 seperate auctions, so 7 separate threads made/bumped daily here)
• 80 ped muscle oil (hell yeah I'd post it here)

Under your rules, please tell me which items are "allowed" and which aren't, and why.

Also, there's my (item name withheld) currently on auction that ingame MU says is ~+1200, but is currently only selling for ~+300. Would that be OK to advertise?

I guarentee you folks would have hated me for spamming this forum with so many threads about what I'm selling on on auction. This place would've loked like a real bad Facebook page. (Selling another 75 ped of wool thread today -Like)
And I'm just one guy. Do the math. Think those folks who throw 30 lvl 2 light mining amps on auction won't spam here either?

Oh, and which of you folks will be kind enough to educate every new forum user about what items are not allowed so us mods don't have to deal with 30 reported threads/day and the angry posters after we remove them?

Now yes, for some very rare cases, such as the sale of CND and the mass block of CLDs, we've let those slide. Why? Simple. Those are discussion-producing litterally Univere changing sales that were going to be mentioned here anyway. There's no way we're going to delete those announcements.

As a moderator, auction user, forum reader, etc. I can not endorse removing Rule 5.1.

 

[GeorgeSkywalker]

I think some improvements to the in-game auction system to reduce the need for forum selling threads would be better. An option to set length of auction to up to a month perhaps, with a decaying fee based on the length of the auction (e.g. everything up to 7 days as it is now, increasing to twice the normal fee for a month auction). Also bundled auctions (e.g. for sets of armour).

Very good approach there. Same as mine really but done much more elegantly

 

[Tycoon]

I've always thought there should just be a separate sub-forum added to the Trading section for items being sold on in-game auction!... it's not like this forums is making a commision, what the hell?!...

Selling,
Buying,
PriceCheck,
Services,
Shops,
CFD Auctions
In-Game Auction

why not add it?
Just don't allow threads for the same item in both Selling and In-Game Auction sub-forums!
(maybe even prohibit starting a thread in Selling, then canceling the sale and listing in-game and starting a thread in In-Game Auctions, to avoid confusion and misuse of the forum for advertising a sale in multiple sections)

& I do love the idea of bundled sales on in-game auction, they should implement that!!!

 

[Mika]

Can't vote, but seems logical that it would be changed

the forums have the same rules as they always have, and at times reminds you of something entirely different.


Perhaps it should not be allowed to be bumped to often (2 days), because one issue would be that if people bid on the ingame auction, and someone on the forums offer you an item + peds you are interested in accepting as a BO. you're royally screwed being unable to take the item off the ingame auction.

BO threads, no.
Bid threads only, yes

 

[RickEngland]

Hi

The Entropia Universe economy is very hard these days. Items take a long time to sell and bumping your selling thread for weeks means you miss out on the exposure the ingame auction provides.

Cheers
Bjorn

I think it’s frustrating at times if you can’t highlight your sale in forum that has been listed in auction. However maybe this is to stop the forum being flooded with sales threads.

That said I rarely have difficulties selling any items in auction, if its priced reasonably. If a sale is clearly not achieving a forum asking price and requires months of bumping, then the solution is to lower the price until a buyer finds that price attractive enough to purchase it.

Although that is simple economics, any attempts to suggest prices should be adjusted to attract a sale is taken very badly here in forum.

I have been converted recently that some items do deserve and command incredible values, how many players we have with the desire and ability to purchase a Rolls Royce is up to the seller to assess.

It’s all becoming a little boring in all honesty, what’s worse the lack of sales (you speak of) does not promote a thriving economy and looks awful from those looking in at the situation, Sellers are rigid much of the time and stuck in their ways, are they also prepared to bend for the benefit of the game?

There’re two sides to any problem.

Rick.

edit: poll is closed cant appear to vote.

 

[Jimmy B]

I think it’s frustrating at times if you can’t highlight your sale in forum that has been listed in auction. However maybe this is to stop the forum being flooded with sales threads.

I think it was actually requested by MA a long time ago, although flooding would also be an issue. Also, as soon as an item was actually sold, the thread would be annoying for anyone who later saw it. At least with sales organised solely on the forum you can (normally) tell from the posts that an item has sold.

Although that is simple economics, any attempts to suggest prices should be adjusted to attract a sale is taken very badly here in forum.

Well there's no obligation for an owner of an item to sell for any price below what they're willing to sell it for. If I own a Angel Shin Guards and want to sell it for 100kPED, that's entirely my right (no-one will buy, but still, it's mine to do with as I please). What I can't do is fabricate evidence to suggest it is actually worth that (Rule 5.6), such a false claim should be reported.

what’s worse the lack of sales (you speak of) does not promote a thriving economy and looks awful from those looking in at the situation, Sellers are rigid much of the time and stuck in their ways, are they also prepared to bend for the benefit of the game?

I think that's MA's job, not sellers. If MA wanted prices to drop, they could achieve that very easily. If they thought it was good for the game I presume they would do it.

edit: poll is closed cant appear to vote.

The poll had a 10 day timeout set, it could be re-opened if the OP wants.

 

[RickEngland]

I think that's MA's job, not sellers. If MA wanted prices to drop, they could achieve that very easily. If they thought it was good for the game I presume they would do it.

My point Jimmy is that if players were seeking a solution to a faster sale of their items, then they might consider reviewing their prices, rather than the forum providing an easier solution to aid in that sale. Which makes it the players job. Although fair point MA have God like powers to throw any market in any direction at their whim.

Rick