Question: Some Questions From A Relatively Low Lvl Miner

[Che']

Hello to the mining community of the Entropia Universe.

I have a few basic questions about our mining system, which I would appreciate clarified, so I can continue to mine in a cost-effective manner to yield maximum returns for my PED.

Question One

With regard to the occurrence of minerals/enmatters in clusters. I have recently compared mining trends in enmatter and ore mining. My experience has yielded that I can get several claims occasionally when enmatter mining, by "double-bombing", but this tends not to occur with ore mining. With ore mining, claims tend to occur in veins as opposed to the clusters found in enmatter mining, and are generally found ~105m from the original claim, when I bomb in one of the cardinal directions. That being said, has anybody noticed similar, in that the spacing of ore claims is further than that of enmatter claims?

Question Two

This question relates to the various finders available. I knew my way about ore and enmatter mining for a while, but decided to focus on enmatter mining due to budget constraints. Something then hit the back of my head, and so I decided to switch back to Ore mining when things started going slowly in the Enmatter Mining. So far the results have been pleasing, however I have noticed that I have long maxed out the TT Finder I have been using, with an average search depth of ~204.0m. With the TT Finder as you know, Lysterium and Blausarium (mainly the lower MU ores) are quite common. However, I desire some more flavour in my mining soup, and would enjoy a bit more diversity in the ores I extract . I understand that this can be achieved by using a Finder of greater average depth; say ~400.0m. My dilemma here, is that if I use said upgraded finder outside, say, Port Atlantis. Will I still get my common Lysterium and Blausarium claims at shallow depths like 150.0m, in addition to the possibility of discovering those highly sought after MU ores? Or will these shallow deposits be sacrificed for even fewer hits, but exclusively of these high MU ores?

Question 3

Does anybody have an approximation of the amount of time it takes an "ore-field" to respawn its claims? Moreover do these fields even respawn themselves, or is it completely randomly generated? I am more inclined to believe the former, because after a field is carpet bombed by 5 miners, you would think twice about visiting it wouldn't you? This then leads me to my next question.

Question 4

Is there any evidence / have there been any experiments which support the fact that claims are pre-generated, or dispute it and favour the fact that claims are randomly generated?

Thanks In Advance
Che'

 

[Libby]

As a mid-lower lvl miner I will help you as best as I can.

Question One

With regard to the occurrence of minerals/enmatters in clusters. I have recently compared mining trends in enmatter and ore mining. My experience has yielded that I can get several claims occasionally when enmatter mining, by "double-bombing", but this tends not to occur with ore mining. With ore mining, claims tend to occur in veins as opposed to the clusters found in enmatter mining, and are generally found ~105m from the original claim, when I bomb in one of the cardinal directions. That being said, has anybody noticed similar, in that the spacing of ore claims is further than that of enmatter claims?

This is more just luck than anything. Finding more claims by double bombing regardless of what type your looking for seems to be based on how each are doing at that moment. If ore is doing good for you, it seems you have a higher chance to get a second or third claim by double/triple bombing, same with enmatters. As you explore more and more areas, you will notice that both types of mining are pretty much equal in terms of finding more by double bombing.

Question Two

This question relates to the various finders available. I knew my way about ore and enmatter mining for a while, but decided to focus on enmatter mining due to budget constraints. Something then hit the back of my head, and so I decided to switch back to Ore mining when things started going slowly in the Enmatter Mining. So far the results have been pleasing, however I have noticed that I have long maxed out the TT Finder I have been using, with an average search depth of ~204.0m. With the TT Finder as you know, Lysterium and Blausarium (mainly the lower MU ores) are quite common. However, I desire some more flavour in my mining soup, and would enjoy a bit more diversity in the ores I extract . I understand that this can be achieved by using a Finder of greater average depth; say ~400.0m. My dilemma here, is that if I use said upgraded finder outside, say, Port Atlantis. Will I still get my common Lysterium and Blausarium claims at shallow depths like 150.0m, in addition to the possibility of discovering those highly sought after MU ores? Or will these shallow deposits be sacrificed for even fewer hits, but exclusively of these high MU ores?

This one is a bit tricky. Using a finder that can find deeper claims will skip the very shallow claims more often than not. The trick is to use the correct finder in the area you are mining. Using a OF-103 for example in Shinook will hit some shallow lys and such while also getting some of the deeper Gazz. But using an OF-105 will normally skip the shallow stuff completely and you will find mostly gazz. Of course you will also find deeper deposits that the OF-103 had no chance of finding. Or you could go with a OF-104 and only miss the very very shallow claims and very deep claims.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ining-depths-data-ores-enmatters-finders.html

That post is very useful on deciding what tool to use.

Question 3

Does anybody have an approximation of the amount of time it takes an "ore-field" to respawn its claims? Moreover do these fields even respawn themselves, or is it completely randomly generated? I am more inclined to believe the former, because after a field is carpet bombed by 5 miners, you would think twice about visiting it wouldn't you? This then leads me to my next question.

Some people say 2 - 4 days. I personally say 2 weeks minimum. Even as a low level miner i'm sure you have came across a place you mined just a few days ago and its still dry. This could be because someone had gotten there first but nobody really knows for sure.

Question 4

Is there any evidence / have there been any experiments which support the fact that claims are pre-generated, or dispute it and favour the fact that claims are randomly generated?

This is a "don't go there" type question and has sparked many debates. I say its all generated on the fly. If it wasn't, wouldn't it be easy to profit? With return rates about the 90% for EVERYONE, it wouldn't make sense if they were already there. That also explains why you can get 10 NRF in a row and a miner runs up from behind you with the same finder finding claims every bomb.

I missed the era of mining before the change but now it just seems pretty random. Grab the right finder and don't overlap your NRFs too much and you should be fine. Just remember its like hunting and crafting. You have a much higher chance to lose than win.

 

[Malacalypse]

I myself believe that the deposits are generated randomly when you drop a bomb. Have never had problems dropping near other miners. Doubledropping on the other hand can severely reduce my return, so I always make sure to drop bombs 110 m apart (max range x2).

As for when you can go back and rebomb a field, some say down to 4-8 hrs, I keep it at 12 or more.

As for finders, deeper depth will find different ores and when your ASD goes over 700 or so you will start to find more rares. Adomasite and kanerium are pretty rare but can be found with down to 211(L). Skills also seem to play a role here. Ie, higher skills will find more rares with lower ASD.

But definitly leave the TT finder and try out the 211(L) or Z20(L) if you have the skills for it. Markup is everything.

 

[Ace Flyster]

For rebombing an area, 1-2 hours

Regards

Ace

 

[Anna Ufo]

I have to agree partly, double bombing is more efficient with enmats then ores, but personally i allways rebomb, no matter ore or enmatter

 

[Che']

OF-210(L)
Average Search Depth: 383.1
Thanks for your responses everyone

@ Libby, I checked the thread that you referenced, and for some of the finders, there appears to be no more information except for the average search depth. Does this mean that there is a chance of finding everything with these finders? Or has there not been significant testing of said finders?

OF-104
Average Search Depth: 432.9

Ziplex Z10 OreSeeker (L)
Average Search Depth: 403


Ziplex Z15 OreSeeker (L)
Average Search Depth: 477.6

 

[Anna Ufo]

@ Libby, I checked the thread that you referenced, and for some of the finders, there appears to be no more information except for the average search depth. Does this mean that there is a chance of finding everything with these finders? Or has there not been significant testing of said finders?

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ining-depths-data-ores-enmatters-finders.html

 

[Light Bug]

Thinking on the technical side of the game server, to store every spot on the world that there is a deposit then have the DB searched each each "hole" in the db to see if it is full would be ridiculously time consuming and a big strain on the server.

To have a random generation would be a lot easier with an X% change for each area would greatly lighten the server load.

Just thought I would share even though everyone else has said random gen, know you know why. : o )

 

[Libby]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ining-depths-data-ores-enmatters-finders.html

Hehehe, Same thread. Still don't know why its not sticky.

Honestly IDK, Maybe nobody has submitted info about what it cannot find. Its not really important really, I just play the matching game and it finds whats in its ASD.

 

[Oleg]

Thinking on the technical side of the game server, to store every spot on the world that there is a deposit then have the DB searched each each "hole" in the db to see if it is full would be ridiculously time consuming and a big strain on the server.

It would be a fraction of the resources needed to record the position of every one of the tens of thousands of mobs on the planet at any one time.

 

[Mining Maps]

Question One

With regard to the occurrence of minerals/enmatters in clusters. I have recently compared mining trends in enmatter and ore mining. My experience has yielded that I can get several claims occasionally when enmatter mining, by "double-bombing", but this tends not to occur with ore mining. With ore mining, claims tend to occur in veins as opposed to the clusters found in enmatter mining, and are generally found ~105m from the original claim, when I bomb in one of the cardinal directions. That being said, has anybody noticed similar, in that the spacing of ore claims is further than that of enmatter claims?

Regarding Question #1: Both ores and enmatter can run in veins. Double bombing helps to identify when you stumble upon a cluster. The 105m distance is typical of a vein, both enmatter and ores, which makes them very predictable. A long time ago, veins only ran in the cardinal directions, but a couple of years ago, they introduced new directions and a couple of odd geometric patterns. Makes things more challenging and fun. Happy mining!

 

[florin]

Just a short answer for yar questions..
Double bombing is usualy not worthing but i allways do it cause in this way i got my uber deposits (1*XIX, 2*XX, 1*XXI) and several globals that at first bomb were only III-V claims.
Respawning differs from one area to other, some areas respawns 1-2 hours others 4-8 hours or more, from my experience.
Best of luck!

 

[Che']

Many thanks for your responses again.

While there are many factors that influence mining, has anyone conducted an experiment similar to the folllowing:

- When a claim is obtained, write down the co-ordinates, and also the cardinal direction you are facing (who knows as this may be a variable) Also note down the time at which the bomb was dropped.

- Return to the same spot, face the same cardinal direction and drop another bomb in one-hour intervals, to see if there is any noticeable effect? Perhaps it will be possible to get another claim?

- Repeat the experiment to reduce random errors...and to determine whether it is random or if there is something to it!

Sounds like a tedious task, but I'm willing to try it if anything

Cheers
Che'

 

[Parlog]

Hello to the mining community of the Entropia Universe.

I have a few basic questions about our mining system, which I would appreciate clarified, so I can continue to mine in a cost-effective manner to yield maximum returns for my PED.

Question One

With regard to the occurrence of minerals/enmatters in clusters. I have recently compared mining trends in enmatter and ore mining. My experience has yielded that I can get several claims occasionally when enmatter mining, by "double-bombing", but this tends not to occur with ore mining. With ore mining, claims tend to occur in veins as opposed to the clusters found in enmatter mining, and are generally found ~105m from the original claim, when I bomb in one of the cardinal directions. That being said, has anybody noticed similar, in that the spacing of ore claims is further than that of enmatter claims?

Question Two

This question relates to the various finders available. I knew my way about ore and enmatter mining for a while, but decided to focus on enmatter mining due to budget constraints. Something then hit the back of my head, and so I decided to switch back to Ore mining when things started going slowly in the Enmatter Mining. So far the results have been pleasing, however I have noticed that I have long maxed out the TT Finder I have been using, with an average search depth of ~204.0m. With the TT Finder as you know, Lysterium and Blausarium (mainly the lower MU ores) are quite common. However, I desire some more flavour in my mining soup, and would enjoy a bit more diversity in the ores I extract . I understand that this can be achieved by using a Finder of greater average depth; say ~400.0m. My dilemma here, is that if I use said upgraded finder outside, say, Port Atlantis. Will I still get my common Lysterium and Blausarium claims at shallow depths like 150.0m, in addition to the possibility of discovering those highly sought after MU ores? Or will these shallow deposits be sacrificed for even fewer hits, but exclusively of these high MU ores?

Question 3

Does anybody have an approximation of the amount of time it takes an "ore-field" to respawn its claims? Moreover do these fields even respawn themselves, or is it completely randomly generated? I am more inclined to believe the former, because after a field is carpet bombed by 5 miners, you would think twice about visiting it wouldn't you? This then leads me to my next question.

Question 4

Is there any evidence / have there been any experiments which support the fact that claims are pre-generated, or dispute it and favour the fact that claims are randomly generated?

Thanks In Advance
Che'

1: orespots use to be surrounded by a belt of lysterium, in my point of view the idea of veins is thereby misleading. Some orespots dont have any outlines at all, some have outlines of other stones than lyst. Not sure what you mean by cardinal directions, those lines (veins, belts, however you want to call it) can go in any direction, they can be strong outline one day and as good as not there the next day.

2: you have to distinguish the inside of an orespot and those outlines i mentioned in answer 1. Around PA there are vast orespots for lowend ores like lyst, far out when you hit lyst, you can be sure that you are at a border of an orespot of another kind of ore (or more rarely a lyst spot), so you might find ores in one direction and prolly nothing at all in another. There are certain layers of depth, should be 4 or 5 (like every 200m depth). An orespot extends between 1 and all of those layers. So some orespots can be found with virtually every finder, others only with finders of a certain search-depth, so that the likeliness to find ores in a certain area depends very much on the finder you use. Some orespots totally vanish when you dig to shallow or too deep in that area, other only bring occasional hits, because you only touch the depth witht he maximum likeliness to find this or that ore. Never forget that a good part of it all is playerbased (i was better at finding certain ores than others), based on a certain time (lysterium day: a day where when the chance to hit lysterium globals/hofs/aths is significantly higher and not so much bound to a certain spot) as well as based on your personal loot-circle (good and bad times) Once i globaled a 170peder on a spot where just seconds before me 2 miners have crossed there ways, bombed and where they didnt find anything.

3: between 3sec and 10days -totally random or lets say, its totally dependant on the needs of the balance of the market, but it seems like you can load a spot when you bomb it out, so the next miner (could be you too, a bit later) finds a lot more than than the previous one.

4: might have changed and i think it was changed so you cannot distinguish it anymore. 2 years ago when you still had to run over the claim to make it appear, 2 miners were able to find the same claim simultaneously, even though depth and size could have varried. Happened to me on CND twice, that i found a claim together with another miner. But we never found it on the same depth. Now its kind of impossible to tell i think.

 

[LeWolf86]

Im one to believe like the lotto and crafting its generated.... which would make it all make sense since if its randomly generated then it would make it fair with hunting and crafting...

Dont know, Im a new miner also so Ill have to play and see, but theres times where Ill mine and get NRF for a logn time and then little bit later Ill be hitting tiny's smalls' very small's and all sorts....

I had one good day with like 3 X's I believe within an hour and went back there after 2 days and got horrible NRF's so Ill test that area again next time and see how it fairs.

 

[Che']

Thanks again for your many responses.
A few more questions:

-How exactly do you double bomb? Do you bomb next to the actual claim you find? Or do you bomb in the same spot where you lay your first bomb? I have tried both, and they seem to work...ok for want of a better word.

-Is it exactly known how the finders detect minerals? Do they detect them from the point where the bomb is placed, outwards in a circle of increasing radius until the 54.0m range is reached? Or does it go from the edge of the 54.0m radius circle, and move inwards to the point where the bomb is placed?

I figure that the aforementioned would have significant implications on whether or not bombs are wasted on double bombing. For example, if the finders detect minerals in an outwards direction from the point where the bomb was set, then if one were to strike a claim at say 51.0m distance, then it would not make much sense to double-bomb, in my opinion, as there would be slim chances of finding another claim in the remaining 3.0m space. However, if one were to strike a claim at 13.0m distance, then there remains plenty of space for further detection, and this may lead to the discovery of a small cluster.

-Is it common to stop running when a bomb is planted? Or is it more common to just drop a bomb and keep running?

-Has anyone noticed a difference in the sizes of claims found between using an unlimited finder, with a comparable depth to the same limited finder? I think that unlimited finders while harder to max, may yield slightly larger sized claims on average, as compared to their counterparts, but the trade off is that the limited finders are easier to max, and generally provide a deeper search range for the same commensurate skill level.

Thanks In Advance
Che'

 

[Parlog]

Thanks again for your many responses.
A few more questions:

-How exactly do you double bomb? Do you bomb next to the actual claim you find? Or do you bomb in the same spot where you lay your first bomb? I have tried both, and they seem to work...ok for want of a better word.

-Is it exactly known how the finders detect minerals? Do they detect them from the point where the bomb is placed, outwards in a circle of increasing radius until the 54.0m range is reached? Or does it go from the edge of the 54.0m radius circle, and move inwards to the point where the bomb is placed?

I figure that the aforementioned would have significant implications on whether or not bombs are wasted on double bombing. For example, if the finders detect minerals in an outwards direction from the point where the bomb was set, then if one were to strike a claim at say 51.0m distance, then it would not make much sense to double-bomb, in my opinion, as there would be slim chances of finding another claim in the remaining 3.0m space. However, if one were to strike a claim at 13.0m distance, then there remains plenty of space for further detection, and this may lead to the discovery of a small cluster.

-Is it common to stop running when a bomb is planted? Or is it more common to just drop a bomb and keep running?

-Has anyone noticed a difference in the sizes of claims found between using an unlimited finder, with a comparable depth to the same limited finder? I think that unlimited finders while harder to max, may yield slightly larger sized claims on average, as compared to their counterparts, but the trade off is that the limited finders are easier to max, and generally provide a deeper search range for the same commensurate skill level.

Thanks In Advance
Che'

Squall speaks of surgical bombing, not carpet bombing, so i would like to borrow that expression, to answer those questions:

Answer1: If you want to do it most surgical and in terms of the miningspot, most eco, you doubledrop exactly where you have dropped before. But because miners use to have limits in bombs and amps, they want to cover an area as big as possible, so some bomb near the claim to get some new lands into the radius, and some dont double-bomb at all. No real big difference in my point of view.

Answer2: Neither nor or not known. Nothing seem to indicate that this or that result might be the true one.

Answer3: its more an assumption based on question2. But it seems like MA doesnt want to give us the a single hint about the how-it-works.

Answer4: Thats a philosophical question and my answer is, stoping after droping is more time-consuming. So i run and unconsciously count seconds to my next drop, respectively drop at once again as soon as i find something.

Answer5: Indeed it seems to be the case that L-finders spit out slightly larger claims, but the bad side is, there seem to be times when they do not spit out anything at all. I ran around a year each with both kinds of finders and it seems to me that un-L finders have a more constant and stable findrate, but a decrease in quality and size of finds. But yes its absolutely possible, that un-L finders must be maxed (level 100?) to squeeze the full potential out of them, while the Ls (finder and amps) seem to be fully maxed at 2-6 times (my estimation) of the level that sib starts/recommendation (2 times for finders, 6 times for amps). But thats my estimation especially for the higher level finders.

 

[Darker_Star]

Hello to the mining community of the Entropia Universe.

I have a few basic questions about our mining system, which I would appreciate clarified, so I can continue to mine in a cost-effective manner to yield maximum returns for my PED.

Question One

With regard to the occurrence of minerals/enmatters in clusters. I have recently compared mining trends in enmatter and ore mining. My experience has yielded that I can get several claims occasionally when enmatter mining, by "double-bombing", but this tends not to occur with ore mining. With ore mining, claims tend to occur in veins as opposed to the clusters found in enmatter mining, and are generally found ~105m from the original claim, when I bomb in one of the cardinal directions. That being said, has anybody noticed similar, in that the spacing of ore claims is further than that of enmatter claims?

Question Two

This question relates to the various finders available. I knew my way about ore and enmatter mining for a while, but decided to focus on enmatter mining due to budget constraints. Something then hit the back of my head, and so I decided to switch back to Ore mining when things started going slowly in the Enmatter Mining. So far the results have been pleasing, however I have noticed that I have long maxed out the TT Finder I have been using, with an average search depth of ~204.0m. With the TT Finder as you know, Lysterium and Blausarium (mainly the lower MU ores) are quite common. However, I desire some more flavour in my mining soup, and would enjoy a bit more diversity in the ores I extract . I understand that this can be achieved by using a Finder of greater average depth; say ~400.0m. My dilemma here, is that if I use said upgraded finder outside, say, Port Atlantis. Will I still get my common Lysterium and Blausarium claims at shallow depths like 150.0m, in addition to the possibility of discovering those highly sought after MU ores? Or will these shallow deposits be sacrificed for even fewer hits, but exclusively of these high MU ores?

Question 3

Does anybody have an approximation of the amount of time it takes an "ore-field" to respawn its claims? Moreover do these fields even respawn themselves, or is it completely randomly generated? I am more inclined to believe the former, because after a field is carpet bombed by 5 miners, you would think twice about visiting it wouldn't you? This then leads me to my next question.

Question 4

Is there any evidence / have there been any experiments which support the fact that claims are pre-generated, or dispute it and favour the fact that claims are randomly generated?

Thanks In Advance
Che'

Just my two pecs....

1, 3, & 4. I think that 1 and 4 are related and a few mates and myself have tested it. The finds are NOT in the ground. They are decided at the point of drop. In one test we went to a dome on CND. I ran in a predetermined circle; noting where anything was found. My mate followed the same route, droping bombs where I did and found some things in the places that i got nothing. We are of the same mining level, over 30. This was repeated several times, in a few occurencs, he found several hit all grouped in an area I had just bombed. Therefore, I now assume, that wheather something is there is determed at the point of dropping the probe or bomb, if it's your time you find something, if the program say ...opps, not your time, you don't and the guy right behind you finds an ATH.


2. Here, is what I've found, was using a very high level ore finder for the past few weeks, finding a bit of very rare ores, all in very low amounts. Decided to switch back to my 105 just for the hell of it, and guess what, found the very same ores in the very say areas, so, at this point, I don't know what to think. I had thought the plus 1000 M of my suped up finder was the reason, but here i am using a 105 and find the same, lol

 

[Shereaper]

Many thanks for your responses again.

While there are many factors that influence mining, has anyone conducted an experiment similar to the folllowing:

- When a claim is obtained, write down the co-ordinates, and also the cardinal direction you are facing (who knows as this may be a variable) Also note down the time at which the bomb was dropped.

- Return to the same spot, face the same cardinal direction and drop another bomb in one-hour intervals, to see if there is any noticeable effect? Perhaps it will be possible to get another claim?

- Repeat the experiment to reduce random errors...and to determine whether it is random or if there is something to it!

Sounds like a tedious task, but I'm willing to try it if anything

Cheers
Che'

OK Im IN I will Buy 100 Bombs. I will Find a remote place (less Chance of it getting bombed while Im out) Log in ONE time each Hours ( or as much as I can) and rebomb for 100 tires. (Oh mY God this is gonna Hurtmy ped card)

 

[Mining Maps]

When i am on a vein, I double bomb from where the find was. Move in the right direction for a specific distance and bomb again. I start from that location and repeat. I can hit ores/enmatter consistently for 20+ locations in a row (but not on the second bomb of course). It makes for a pretty line on my map charts and a big smile on my ped card.

 

[Che']

@ Shereaper, many thanks, but 50 bombs can suffice if it hurts your PED Card badly >.<

Another question: Can a claim be claimed by two people? Assuming the two individuals have the same skill level...eg. two OJs, the same finder and are in the same location and click at the same time?

 

[Moneyman]

Question 3

Does anybody have an approximation of the amount of time it takes an "ore-field" to respawn its claims? Moreover do these fields even respawn themselves, or is it completely randomly generated? I am more inclined to believe the former, because after a field is carpet bombed by 5 miners, you would think twice about visiting it wouldn't you? This then leads me to my next question.
Che'

Random generated = 100%
I explain my theory

If this is the case (respawn time of claims) then nobody knows, because you can't know if anyone has been there before in same spot!!
So some player tells hours, some days and some weeks. i don't think it's like that at all. it's about (cords vs time vs area vs quantity of miners).

Think about it! If you are alown miner in the game, where comes the ped from when you hit a claim if you ever hit one? yeah thats right YOU. you pay for your own claims then. IF you try diffrent areas and drop 100 bombs and find almost nothing then you can go here on entropiaforum and look at the bottom on the homepage. Its 100% certain shown a negative number in mining. As we speak the mining are terrible now, it's -14,58%.
And i will not even try to bomb anyting. yeah ofc you can have luck to hit claims or even get a gl, but it's not anyting i will calculate with.

Why? because almost no one do mineing atm and the ped pool is realy low atm.
So respawn time of a claim is IMO just an theory like my own.

 

[Parlog]

Another question: Can a claim be claimed by two people? Assuming the two individuals have the same skill level...eg. two OJs, the same finder and are in the same location and click at the same time?

Before the change of the mining system in winter 06-07 it was possible that 2 ppl find the same claim, but only one of them could claim the ressource. A claim rod will ever have only 1 person who gets the claim deed. So... nope!