Space non-pvp corridor between planets

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The proposal is for MindArk to establish a non pvp zone between planets.

The catch would be a ship can only travel within it if non of the people onboard the ship are carrying any lootables.
 

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Errr, not sure I understand what you are trying achieve here:confused:

Dirk
 

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Errr, not sure I understand what you are trying achieve here:confused:

Dirk

Avoid being shot down when carrying no loot of course.
 
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Avoid being shot down when carrying no loot of course.

and reduce complaints about space pvp. The argument often used is a player is given no choice in avoiding pvp in space. This offers a solution for that whilst still making it difficult to transport lootables between planets. MindArk want it to be difficult to transport lootables so that they are used on that planet rather than transported to a different one, which helps a new planet to grow.
 

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Not sure I see the point.

If stackables can't be transported by your proposed method then only people can. MindArk have said that planets need to grow their own player bases, therefore they've no reason to make space travel easy.
 

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Unfortunately PvP is needed in space to engender each PPs own economy. I do agree there should me more levels of security like in other space games, some how piloting ships should be based on skill level etc.
 

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Rather than spend time developing this, they should spend the time removing the bugs such as speed hacks.
 

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Yes, there are many bugs in space, that need to be fixed: endless repair after SI upgrade, docking to SS while in deep space, spaceship not showing in SS TP, avatar standing outside the spaceship, ...
 
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The proposal is for MindArk to establish a non pvp zone between planets.

The catch would be a ship can only travel within it if non of the people onboard the ship are carrying any lootables.

might as well bring back tp's then for a small charge and with out lootables. Its is annoying getting shot down from players who just want to pain in the arse.
 

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If so, they could make it a long and twisting "safe path" perhaps 2 motherships wide, requiring the pilot to be 100% present and alert (as he would be required to follow the route back and forth)... They could then add some kind of "toll gates" to those safe paths. Deviating from the path for too long should result in losing this protection for ~1 AU or something.

End result would be:

Pros:
1) Skilled pilots would be in high demand since they would be more likely to be able to follow the route.
2) 100% safe passage would be possible, though not easy + would cost more than regular travel.
3) Toll gates could be player owned, providing more immersion between player and space.

Cons:
1) When used by a taxi service, one risk would be that the pilot steers off course into the danger zone and the passengers lose their stuff. This could even be something that is planned by the pilot working together with pirates. Obviously, this could be fixed by some kind of extra system (perhaps forcing the pilot to add "insurance" to the ship which would be paid out automatically to the passengers if they were looted?).
2) The ship could glide into the danger zone if the pilot got a CTD or something.

Other:
1) Pirates would be able to follow (or camp) these routes in case the transport ship slides off course.
2) Ships in this lane would have to be made non-collidable, else a pirate could perhaps bump into a ship that is in the safe lane, forcing them out into the danger zone. Also, it would be required to be able to make the lane thin enough for navigation to be difficult without creating bottlenecks where an enemy ship could camp to prevent other ships from passing.
 

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In the "State of the Universe Address 2013" MindArk writes :

"The early focus [regarding space] will be on addressing several issues that currently allow for practically risk-free travel between planets."

My understanding is that they do not intend to make space travel easier but, on the contrary, more challenging.

The "logout issue" seems to be a real issue that was not thought through and they want to solve. If you cannot prevent people to logout, there are solutions nevertheless. For example: When you enter a spaceship, your lootables are mandatorily and automatically put in spaceship hold (spaceship storage) and can be looted as long as the spaceship is in PvP zone (even if you are logged out).
 

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Unfortunately PvP is needed in space to engender each PPs own economy. I do agree there should me more levels of security like in other space games, some how piloting ships should be based on skill level etc.

I do not agree.
PvP in space is needed only to feed up MS owners and pirates.
When RL some country get under embargo rules is not that ppl create some kind of pvp combat zone all around of that country lol. Cud be in some extreme mode but usualy is solved in other ways.

For restrict import/export and protect local economy there cud be many other non pvp solutions like import/export transport fees, disabling possibility to take or use anything - similar to Acient Greece travel metod.
And instead of non PVP corridor wud be a lot more handy something like clasic teleporter wich do not let you to transport stackables - that wud be less time consuming when you are in a hurry on some event or some mission and im sure many wud pay as we did before pvp space.
 
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I do not agree.
PvP in space is needed only to feed up MS owners and pirates.
When RL some country get under embargo rules is not that ppl create some kind of pvp combat zone all around of that country lol. Cud be in some extreme mode but usualy is solved in other ways.

For restrict import/export and protect local economy there cud be many other non pvp solutions like import/export transport fees, disabling possibility to take or use anything - similar to Acient Greece travel metod.
And instead of non PVP corridor wud be a lot more handy something like clasic teleporter wich do not let you to transport stackables - that wud be less time consuming when you are in a hurry on some event or some mission and im sure many wud pay as we did before pvp space.

Not sure why you would want to pay a fee to mindark straight to get the same that you can get in current space - secure and quick passage to another planet - just that when mindark gets around to fixing the current risk-free ways of transport there will be a huge demand towards spacecraft owners to upgrade their ships to a secure level buying ingots from miners for millions of peds and therefor boosting the entire economy.
Its not like mothership owners could just keep that money and have a nice time, they continuously will need to reinvest to provide a secure service the more active and busy space gets.

Of course i can understand that some players dislike the idea to trust another player with their money, but thats what those other players called traders are there to do - they will have a real purpose on exchanging goods between planets and will also build markups as they have to manage the risk of transported values themself.

How many of you run around with all your posessions in your pockets in real life and how many bring some of their money to a bank or some of their posessions to a transport service where they get insured before being sent ?
Noone is forced to take the risk for his posessions all by himself.
The separation of economies that mindark is working on will create higher markups for goods from other planets and therefor raise a demand and this additional profit will fund the job of the interplanetary trader who takes the risk to carry on stuff for others.
The more difficult space gets the more players will find tasks and opportunities in this whole movement process all of which would get lost if mindark just reimplemented some interplanetary TP's or safe flightlanes.

See the opportunities, dont fear the consequences - our game and universe will be so much larger and more involving to lots of players then if just leaving out all of this.
 

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I do not agree.
PvP in space is needed only to feed up MS owners and pirates.
When RL some country get under embargo rules is not that ppl create some kind of pvp combat zone all around of that country lol. Cud be in some extreme mode but usualy is solved in other ways.

For restrict import/export and protect local economy there cud be many other non pvp solutions like import/export transport fees, disabling possibility to take or use anything - similar to Acient Greece travel metod.
And instead of non PVP corridor wud be a lot more handy something like clasic teleporter wich do not let you to transport stackables - that wud be less time consuming when you are in a hurry on some event or some mission and im sure many wud pay as we did before pvp space.


You have clearly never heard of the phrase "THERE IS MONEY IN WAR"

Let me make it real simple :

NON PVP ie NO WAR
Country (Mothership) V Country (Space) = Peace = Fewer Opportunities (MA and PLAYERS) ie : No rebuilding/Decay, Less or No Funding/SI etc, No yadda yadda ..... Most commonly results in long term slow Profits (compared to WAR)


WAR ie NO NON PVP
Country (Mothership) V Country (Space) = WAR = Lots of Opportunities (MA and PLAYERS) ie : Lots of Rebuilding /Decay Lots of Funding/ SI/ Ammo etc ...... Quick Big profits (MA) and often long term -MA (The cost of this profit is not their concern...in our case, its your wallet, not your life)

There is money in WAR and thats why its in MA's interest to keep space pvp ontop of the other benefits already discussed to individual planets. The upside for us is the mere fact that it causes a problem, gives us as players opportunities as well. The problem here is that most in EU players lack the vision to play this face value negative into a self serving positive.
 

Art Jennifer

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They should make it so each ship give you back ammo when you shoot it, like sometimes in pvp4.

They should not be making space more boring :D

Edit: I am English and that sentence is wrong on so many levels.
 

aia

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Not sure I see the point.

If stackables can't be transported by your proposed method then only people can. MindArk have said that planets need to grow their own player bases, therefore they've no reason to make space travel easy.

MA has stated somewhere, at the answer how to redeem partial attributes (less than 100 tokens), that there should be missions on other planets to you can get a full 100 stack. Also the blueprint for welding wire use two minerals that are planet unique so in order to make welding wire at least someone needs to visit those planets.

If MA really wants to make planet travel hard, I'd like the option to create secondary avatars (as I guess alot of players have done already), at least that would increase the average population (counting avatars ingame, not IRL people playing).

Of course i can understand that some players dislike the idea to trust another player with their money, but thats what those other players called traders are there to do - they will have a real purpose on exchanging goods between planets and will also build markups as they have to manage the risk of transported values themself.

I don't intend to do "interplanytary traders", I mainly want to move myself.

My stackables I generally move into storage as soon as possible. Some stackables like sweat and hangar parts I have in my apartment for display.

As for traders and gold, well the biggest gold stack in auction is posted with a bigger MU than all the other (smaller) stacks.. (at 124% or so), so I guess a mothership owner who wants to boost his MS will boost this trader's PED card.

As for sweat, as I generally can't get decent amounts of nexus on "other" planets (probably due to less amount of miners) I generally don't buy much sweat while on "other" planets as it will only stack up in my storage for no use, so the losers in that case of lootable space is the sweaters. And as I don't want to bring valuable ores through space I don't mine much myself on other planets which means that I don't either contribute to the local ore market. I have to admit though that I'm no miner.

On Calypso, again, if I get shot in a pvp enabled aera I ahve the option of TP back for revenge or TP out of the area completely even bypassing the area. I'd like that option in space to. I don't like my precious IRL time getting wasted when I'm in a hurry.
 
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MA likes PVP space as it is because it's a little like real world politics/media. If enough participants are bitching about space in various forum threads they don't have time to focus on the other bugs/exploits/etc. to bitch about so much?

Let's blind them with this big thing to complain about and call it space so that they aren't complaining about the loot so much as they have on the forums in past years, etc. Of course, some persistant folks still will complain, but their complaints will be drowned out by the yelling about space... since support tickets/devs like to base what they prioritize on the number of incoming complaints, this gives devs a way to let the bugs that exist continue to persist without doing anything about em.
 
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On Calypso, again, if I get shot in a pvp enabled aera I ahve the option of TP back for revenge or TP out of the area completely even bypassing the area. I'd like that option in space to. I don't like my precious IRL time getting wasted when I'm in a hurry.

Do you also abort a half due hunting run -while below average return- when you get killed by a mob even thought you know you havent cycled enough to get the average return for that mob type/lvl ? Your precious real time argument would fit there just the same.
You need to realize that if you move stuff between planets because you get a better markup on another planet then you are actually doing something with that travel that benefits you - this benefit will get smaller and smaller the more easy it gets for others to do the same and that benefit will get higher and higher the less people actually perform the transport. At the end it will balance out - thats what ingame economy is all about - balancing out risk versus reward - you make this decision on every hunt, every mining run and every crafting run you do - you put in money rdy to loose but with the chance on some return and even to profit.

If moving stuff becomes dangerous and is performed by traders instead, this will also mean that you will find traders willing to buy your stuff on all of the planets and not just mainly on calypso/twin peaks.
Yes it might mean that you will get less for your stuff then if you took it to calypso, but you will get that markup without the risk to loose and just because you hand stuff to a transport agent doesnt mean you cant travel empty alongside him yourself. Noone keeps you from traveling through space and if you dont carry stuff yourself there is not much you need to fear to loose.
In entropias economy its all about risk vs reward all about time vs money and if real time is precious enough to not bother with delays then there is always options throughout all the professions in entropia and it will be very much the same in space. Our avatars skills do have a markup value for one reason - because it takes time to gain them.
Demand vs Supply thats how space will work just like any other branch is supposed to work in entropia.

PS: And yes i can see the gold price going up quite some when SI upgrades become mandatory, just like the markup of a few other ressources as well.
 

aia

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Do you also abort a half due hunting run -while below average return- when you get killed by a mob even thought you know you havent cycled enough to get the average return for that mob type/lvl ?

If loot is below "average" I abort it because I get broke...
Another commin reason I even abort good hunts is because I have work next day and I'm far overdue of going to bed (unfortunately - in an ideal world I could hunt all night long and go to work when the good loot was over and not having to go to sleep).

Another now obsolete reason was that the sulfury(L) blade I had had broken/was about to break.

Yesterday I aborted a daikiba wave because I got overweight because of the trophies even after stacking (knowing going to storage, dump the skulls and get back would cause a timeout).


You need to realize that if you move stuff between planets because you get a better markup on another planet then you are actually doing something with that travel that benefits you

I can't recall any item of mine that has gone *up* in price regardless how much I travel in space.

And again, I'm no trader. I leave high level trading to professionals. I don't want to make a profit at any price. Ok, let's say there are two reasons I would visit space:
- Space itself (hunting, skilling etc).
- Going to another planet. Sometimes to join an event beginning in less than hour. Going back to Calypso, to for instance renew my "bank loans" (which I would have to do once/month at least).

As for space making room for traders besides Twin Peaks: I've never seen a long term "street trader" on Next Island. And I don't even have the slightest where on Planet Cyrene I could meet one. Rocktropia might have one, but the times I've been there I haven't seen any. Even on Calypso there are times there isn't a street trader in Twin peaks, and things like animal hides/wools and common animal oils pretty much no trader buys. As for trying to sell Rocktropia ores/enmatters to a street trader in Twin Peaks... forget it.

Noone keeps you from traveling through space and if you dont carry stuff yourself there is not much you need to fear to loose.

ErnnestJ and Windy Ozoner with their alts (ie Cutie) usually at Rocktropia spacestation.

Pretty much all times I've been at Rocktropia they've either stalled the ship by preventing warp warmup, or even shot down the mothership up to 3 times in a row. At NI I got killed once because I got a CTD on leaving the mothership and Windy appeared from nowhere and killed me while I was unable to log back in. (Someone had earlier reported that Dreadnought had flewn way faster than a mothership normally would but at that time I didn't know Goblin was a pirate alt so I didn't beleive it was serious).

Our avatars skills do have a markup value for one reason - because it takes time to gain them.

My skills have gone down in value roughly to a third since I joined the game.

For instance, I've spent lots of time skilling plasma with the only weapon that was practically doable - a plasma rifle. Then MA drops eredicator type four by a mob you eihter could kill by cheating or having 300 HP+2 mod fappers - and well, those happy people now can skill plasma three times faster than me and cheaper. I think *that* would make my plasma skills mroe valueable.

In vu9 I bought a teleport chip I wasn't able to use at the time, but I skilled up to be able to use it and to get anywhere I wanted (with two defined exceptions). Later MA implemented a big area of PVP, separating non-pvp areas completely, where my teleport skills are useless.

As a passenger on a mothership, unless the crew are on the margin so my rk-5 do make difference, I can't see any of my skills being of any use to me or the ship as a whole. If the mothership gets shot down, all my HP is reduced to 10 and I can't even use my rifle while floating in space to try to at least show what I feel aobut being shot out. My pilot skills and my gunner skills are completely useless as a normal/paying passenger. (I know I don't have IRL skills or good enough computer for serious pvp.) At least when space was new typically two shots was needed to kill me when I was floating around and thre was a chance to slip away.
(Sure, the space skills can be useful - when hunting by my own in my quadwing. But where the problem is - to travel between planets, using your preferred way as a paying customer on an SI enhanced ship - I can't find any way my skills makes travelling easier.)
 
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In the "State of the Universe Address 2013" MindArk writes :

"The early focus [regarding space] will be on addressing several issues that currently allow for practically risk-free travel between planets."

My understanding is that they do not intend to make space travel easier but, on the contrary, more challenging.


Spot on. Notice the proposed method in OP does not contradict this.

The point is by all means make it harder to transfer lootables from one planet to another but be prepared for the consequences.


If it is made harder. What will happen is someone will get looted in space and again a controversy will flare up. Now in this controversy I can guarantee you someone will say MA did not give us an option to avoid PVP in space.

That's what this issue is about giving a non-pvp option to travel between planets. Then anyone who does get looted in pvp space really has no real complaint because the option to travel non-pvp was there which they chose not to use.
 
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That's what this issue is about giving a non-pvp option to travel between planets. Then anyone who does get looted in pvp space really has no real complaint because the option to travel non-pvp was there which they chose not to use.

I dont think people would stop complaining because of that, its not much different then now.
Currently people have the option to travel with service providers where they dont get lootet and still some of them travel with providers where they loose loot or get blown up consistantly and then they start complaining afterwards even thought they had the choice in the first place.
 
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Currently there is no non-pvp space option, period.


Equating mothership/privateer service providers to non-pvp is just misleading at best.
 

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Spot on.

If it is made harder.

I would have no problem if they make space travel more challenging. I can say I support this option.

The potential presence of "pirates" does spice things up a bit in space, whether you travel or hunt. It is part of the game, it is the game. Risk is the game.

Let us make space more interesting.

In my opinion, this forum and its "controversies" on space are (fortunately) by no way representative of the game. They have nothing to do with the game. It is another game.
 

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i did not read all the replys but wouldn't this make all the loot carrying people really bright and shiny? Pirates would never ever have to shoot someone not carrying loot again .... :D


serve us on a silver plate :D
 
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i did not read all the replys but wouldn't this make all the loot carrying people really bright and shiny? Pirates would never ever have to shoot someone not carrying loot again .... :D


serve us on a silver plate :D

Nope. That would only be the case if they disallowed ships carrying non lootables to travel via pvp space which is not feasible or sensible. For example what if someone in pvp space tt'ed their lootables thus it would be in violation of such pvp space rules.
 

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if my quad wouldnt get decayed i wouldnt care too much about space
although it is generally a waste of decay, especially when encountering pirates
and a waste of time for crossing it
even with warp MS its often an issue til the MS actually departs


to encourage people to stay on the planet they get the nonsense on, there could be easier methods

instead of the usual "make scared and make it dangerous" concept of MA you could have a benefiting system for once
i.e. that auctioning stuff on other planets you got it has a 50 pec increased auction fee, which goes directly to the planet owner of the planet it was gotten

more cost to ppl to auction->more auctioned on planet->more people staying
if ppl still auction it somewhere else->still owner has something of it


unfortunately the usual MA way is to make things punishing, not rewarding :)

but that space pvp is needed, no, not at all
there are other ways to achieve the goal of keeping ppl at the planets (and i dont mean the usual space bugs after an update MA implements, which makes ppl unable to leave :D)

i wouldnt mind a 5 ped direct trip tp which doesnt allow you any stackables and places them all in storage
this would actually encourage selling the stuff on the planet as well, possibly cheaper
and with the current system this would encourage traders again to carry them to better places for selling

and thats already two options which leave the goods and players at the planet they were got, at least for one more step
 

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Surely the key to success for EU is enjoyment of spending time on the platform, with most people making a loss while playing, but able to have some control over the rate of losses at the expense of joyful activities.

In a fight at the fort events, repairing is cheaper than attacking, and can even be profitable (when on the winning side), but for many people it is less fun. Repairing damage in space is also cheaper than causing it, but the big difference is that repairs in space are forced. In the fort events they simply reset when one side wins, so both can just go for attack if they want, but it is mostly less fun with no defenders. Humans still manage way better intelligence :laugh:. However, even this event form of PVP seems to be failing miserably now as well.

I would say that the forced lootable pvp in space is the biggest preventor of more activity in space. The questions for me are: if this prevention is so much wanted by MA, then for what purpose, to 'discourage' people from moving or to discourage trade? Or is it to channel movement towards business opportunities in space (motherships)?
Or does MA think that bothering to set up long non-pvp routes is simply too much effort for too little income in return?

Anyway, space needs more safety than now to get more people up there at least on the edge of danger instead of ignoring it completely, unless MA actually wants it to be an ailing, failing space. Heck, passengers on a mothership don't even SEE space!!! so MA are ignoring it towards travellers too.
 

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Personally I think weapons on quads need to have a hit/dmg level requirement. And different level of weapons available depending on mounted hit/dmg level. A nub with no skills should only be able to use weapons 20-30% as powerful as the kismet.. space piracy solved thank you.

I understand also where the op is coming from, if I have loot to carry I'll use a warp sevice. What I find irritating is being shot down when I am carrying nothing and just taxiing myself between planets. What I do now is park myself just outside safe zone let the pirate scum shoot me down repair ship and go about my journey. Engaging a pirate will just be too much of an ammo waste for me.
 
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Currently there is no non-pvp space option, period.


Equating mothership/privateer service providers to non-pvp is just misleading at best.

Assuming your suggestion, imagine the case you have a ship traveling in non-pvp space and then one of your passengers receives split loot from his team dropping the whole ship into pvp-space ... ;)

Keep in mind there is lots of goods that are not lootable but also have markups, if those goods can be shipped without effort then you will loose the opportunity of different markups between planets.
Markup is what drives our ingame economy and it is essential to make players go out of their usual way - if there were no markups we would all just run to TT and wonder why crafters cant supply any of their goods.


Btw you cant get any closer to non-pvp then if transporting stuff when logged out which currently is still possible, so im not sure where you are heading with your statement. There is nothing misleading in the thought that even thought people have options to travel 100% safe (be it logged out or ToS ;) ) there is still lots of them who get lootet. Your solution wouldnt change their view.

LangeTobias is spot on - if you separate the non-loot carrying passengers from the loot carrying passengers then pirates would proably forever thankfull. Nothing more easy then to calculate needed attacking expenses if its guaranteed that you get loot which was worth to every passenger to pay the higher ticket fee in the first place.

Its pretty much a given that ships that can operate in non-pvp space will be able to transport people cheaper then ships who have to protect their passengers, thats why you wouldnt see any non-loot passenger transport in pvp-space.
 
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