The price of one item sold on ef

[BlackHawk]

The discussion started on this thread.

One guy listed an item for a price, he got some bids, but he realized that that item actually worth more than what he asked in first place. So he decided not to sell to whoever had the highest bid on EF, and he listed the item in auction.

Ofc, people went crazy and all started talking about ethics and all sorth of crap, when the problem is a bit different than that.

Imagine you go in a desert and you find a special stone. It proves to be a diamond, and you want to get it sold. You talk to your friends and find eventually an expert that helps you value your stone for 10k$. So you make an anouncement on local paper that you have that stone with that specs and you take offers for it starting at whatever price.

Some people see the add and they know exactly what that stone is worth. In reality, that is worth 20k$, but they decide to offer you 6-7k and see what happens.

In the mean time, you do some more research and discover that other stones that are not as good as yours were sold for a lot more than what you asked for and your stone is a lot better than any of those sold before and is unique. And you speak with some better experts and you figure that the stone is worth 20k$. What will you do then? Sell for 6k or 7k$? Or you just refuse to sell for that price?

One thing is clear in this story.

1. You have a special item you may or may not know what is worth.
2. You ask for a price at some point, and that price is way under what that item is worth.
3. Those who bid know exactly how special your item is and what is worth.

My question is, who has the ethic problem here?
The guy who refuses to sell, and like this refuses to be scammed, or those who pressure him to sell for a lot under what the item is worth? Because if you sell an item because you are stupid for a value way under what is worth, you are scammed.

I am glad for him that he was not scammed and he was smart enough to see that he makes a mistake.

 

[eddric]

I know I wouldn't sell the gloves for 7k. thats for damn sure

 

[Thantos]

If you don't stick to your selling agreement, you have to face the consequences. If you want to ask if the seller is being ethical, then my opinion is no. If you say you are going to do something, then stick to your word. The seller should have done his homework to see what the item was worth and then set up a proper sell. I don't really care if he sold or not, but he did not stick to his word so I give him a thumbs down.

 

[Butch C]

I personally wouldnt sell the diamond untill i found out exactly what it was worth.

But if i was stupid enough to offer it for sale at 7k and the diamond was worth 15k and i found out how much it was worth i doubt very much id sell it for the 7k price, that would be even more stupid than listing it without knowing it's price in the first place.

I also think if you know someone is selling something way below what it should be then you are taking advantage of him so dont start crying when he wakes up to his mistake and stops your little windfall.

 

[Theren Strange]

It would have been far better if he had stood up and admitted in public his mistake and explained his intentions. An apology to Kimmi in public would have stopped the flame fest that ensued i am sure.

The seller does come across as unethical, but only imo by his actions after his mistake, not by making the mistake in the first place.

 

[aridash]

not sure how there is a "scam", it was an open auction and only raised a bid of 7.5k. one might suggest thats all they are worth then, not whatever someone else has said they might be worth. this is the nature of real auctions, you dont always get the expected value, unless you place a reserve and condition not to sell below that price.

so ethically, the guy selling is 100% in the wrong, those bidding have no ethical question to answer.

Note, the scenario presented in the OP is somewhat different as it is not an auction. in that case the ethics are a little more blurry as the seller has the right to change their price before a deal is finalised (the advertised price is only an offer, not binding).

 

[Spawn]

the auction system will hold you to your terms, in here it's mutual agreement that will get something sold.
Although it's not really the honest thing to do.

 

[BlackHawk]

I for one never go and bid on items that are way too low valued, because I know is a waste of time and I can't expect anyone to sell me for such a price. And if I ever do and no one outbids me, I don't plan to be a drama queen and cry that I should get that item for that price.

 

[hojlund]

(Priorities + personal values), / definitions = your answer

 

[Mulga]

Checked the sales thread, but posts were edited, so I'm not sure if the seller had posted a buyout of 7k. If he did, then it's kinda dubious behaviour.

If he didn't then it's a different story.

Many include disclaimers in their sales threads, like "reserve the right not to sell if I don't like your hair colour" , "my friends/grandma might buy it" blah blah. If those people don't sell to highest bidder, are they the same as this guy?

A good point was raised about the selling of uber items for 1 PED startbid. If those well-known people don't sell to highest bidder, are they the same as this guy?

I always give a discount for English-not-first-language as well. If he had his time again, he would probably have posted that he had a reserve price in mind, and included all the getout clauses that so many seem to put in their sales threads.

 

[Roberto]

Ftw all
......................

 

[aridash]

Checked the sales thread, but posts were edited, so I'm not sure if the seller had posted a buyout of 7k. If he did, then it's kinda dubious behaviour.

edits dont change much, its clear that he originally set an end date and on that date he had a bid of x which he then ignored. i dont think changing the BO was the issue, its that he didnt sell to the highest bidder on the end date. he didnt even have the courtesy to inform the winning bidder of a change of plan.

 

[giuly_adm]

I think the only thing should happen here on EF is that serious members should neg rep him, that's all, so next time he sells something we all know what he already did or at least know how much we can trust him.

And this should work only if second accounts will not be admitted, like limitations in rep lvl for selling and buying things and date of subscription too...

I don't know exactly how it can be managed but for sure here there's no contract and as in ebay it's only the reputation control to get the system working

 

[Johned]

I bid on an item once, won the bid and had made arrangements to pick it up when the selled decided to sell it for the same price to someone else because they could get the ped sooner than waiting for our agreed upon meeting.

I don't understand how some people justify their actions when selling on ef auction.

I posted about it in the sales thread just like was done in this case and moved on knowing I would never deal with this avatar again.

Sometimes you just got to cut your losses and move on

 

[Talania]

The in-game auction allows you to remove your item before the sale is finished doesn't it? No transaction is final until you get the item. Someone changes their mind they change their mind. You just have to live with it.

 

[Psionic22]

The in-game auction allows you to remove your item before the sale is finished doesn't it? No transaction is final until you get the item. Someone changes their mind they change their mind. You just have to live with it.

true accept that only applies to auctions that have no bids on it yet. Once someone bids on your item you can't remove.

 

[Mice]

He should have done a pricecheck and alot more reasearch before starting an auction. IMO its the sellers problem if he dont have all the fact straight BEFORE he offers it to the market, and the buyers profit thats how any economy works, theres lots of professions in real life thats built upon this, real estate, gold, diamonds, oil etc etc.

OK it might be hard to determine the value of a unique item but with some more ice in the stomache he could have gotten that info. It seems the seller was eager to sell the item before another dropped and hence didnt do his homework.

 

[Mr Trayles]

You want to sell in action, you use auction rules. You want to sell here, you use the rules here.

You break the rules, you risk the wrath of the people.

If you want to sell here, you best know what your item is worth.

 

[BlackHawk]

He should have done a pricecheck and alot more reasearch before starting an auction. IMO its the sellers problem if he dont have all the fact straight BEFORE he offers it to the market, and the buyers profit thats how any economy works, theres lots of professions in real life thats built upon this, real estate, gold, diamonds, oil etc etc.

OK it might be hard to determine the value of a unique item but with some more ice in the stomache he could have gotten that info. It seems the seller was eager to sell the item before another dropped and hence didnt do his homework.

Exactly. He made a big mistake. No one argues about that. I know that all people here claim that they would not do that. But then again, what if it happens? Would you sell the item for half the price just because you were stupid for one day?

In my opinion, if he deserves a neg rep for being stupid and not informed, then so does the buyer for doing all possible to take advantage of his stupidity and not warn him. If you are so ethic oriented all of a sudden, why are not all the way? Why just one sided?

And about the fact that he wanted to sell fast, before another drop.. that is pure speculation. Most people expected those parts to stay unique. Especially because all dropped when they did.

 

[Immortal]

People abuse the forum guidelines for sales every day, and no-one gives a damn. Why should this such case get any more attention than all the others, other than for the sake of vainglory?

If anyone cites "ethics" or "morality" as implicit reasons for someone to not have the freedom to change their mind, then they understand neither of these concepts.

 

[mike jones]

People abuse the forum guidelines for sales every day, and no-one gives a damn. Why should this such case get any more attention than all the others, other than for the sake of vainglory?

If anyone cites "ethics" or "morality" as implicit reasons for someone to not have the freedom to change their mind, then they understand neither of these concepts.

testify! preach! hallelujah!

 

[BlackHawk]

People abuse the forum guidelines for sales every day, and no-one gives a damn. Why should this such case get any more attention than all the others, other than for the sake of vainglory?

If anyone cites "ethics" or "morality" as implicit reasons for someone to not have the freedom to change their mind, then they understand neither of these concepts.

Because it was one with a radio station that wants Kimmi to be his sponsor and he had to make the shit to hit the fan. So this is the source of all the ethic and moral on this forum. You can buy that on chat rooms...

 

[sndlwood]

the auction system will hold you to your terms, in here it's mutual agreement that will get something sold.
Although it's not really the honest thing to do.

There is nothing unethical about removing your item from a sales thread here or in game. You can remove your listed item in game by the way. It's not a matter of ethics it's a matter of choice. I choose to list an item. I choose to pull it. Whether or not I have bids is irrelevant. My right and my choice.

 

[Starkiller]

If its unethical to remove a sale for some reason, then its also unethical to not inform the seller of what the true value of the item is...

But people never really care about their actions, only about the actions of the others, so you taking advantage of someone is fine, but someone taking advantage of you is wrong. You buying those gloves was considered a bargain, whereas you selling them for that price was a rippoff.

RIGHT.

Some people are just plain greedy and bloody vain.

 

[Xen]

If its unethical to remove a sale for some reason, then its also unethical to not inform the seller of what the true value of the item is...

But people never really care about their actions, only about the actions of the others, so you taking advantage of someone is fine, but someone taking advantage of you is wrong. You buying those gloves was considered a bargain, whereas you selling them for that price was a rippoff.

RIGHT.

Some people are just plain greedy and bloody vain.

The true value of an item is whatever offer you can get. The bidders did nothing wrong simply by bidding within the rules of the auction. Stuff is bought on the in game auction "below market" all the time. The seller just wasted everyone's time. I've been burned two or three times by sellers on this forum also. Don't start auctions on this forum if you aren't going to follow through according to your own auction parameters.

 

[Starkiller]

The true value of an item is whatever offer you can get. The bidders did nothing wrong simply by bidding within the rules of the auction. Stuff is bought on the in game auction "below market" all the time. The seller just wasted everyone's time. I've been burned two or three times by sellers on this forum also. Don't start auctions on this forum if you aren't going to follow through according to your own auction parameters.

They buyers are implying the seller isnt being ethical, if you pull that sorta cheap shit to neg rep someone than youre no better than him. Its his decision, saying hes unethical just means all the bidders were unethical by taking advantage of a clearly outrageous bargain.

Also, the true value is indeed just that, however, my value is different than your value, and his value is different than ours, so what a bargain might be for me, t might be a rippoff for you. so do not bring relative concepts into this thread because its stupid to talk about philosophies here.

Its just stupid.

 

[BlackHawk]

There is "below market" and "wrong price". Some chose to sell below market while are aware of that. Some do it by mistake. Some just change their mind. The problem with those that change their mind for whatever reason on this forum is only when someone miss a deal that is too good to be true. If is a normal deal, you can always replace that with other means ingame.

 

[yasic]

Well, given the way this was described, I see no reason for why the seller cannot choose not to remove the auction. There is nothing unethical, as the seller never signed any binding agreement not to do so.

He may need to live with the consequences of having people bitch at him for it, perhaps negative rep and all, but not with having made an unethical choice.

Especially not for something that is valued over 5k

 

[Xen]

They buyers are implying the seller isnt being ethical, if you pull that sorta cheap shit to neg rep someone than youre no better than him. Its his decision, saying hes unethical just means all the bidders were unethical by taking advantage of a clearly outrageous bargain.

Also, the true value is indeed just that, however, my value is different than your value, and his value is different than ours, so what a bargain might be for me, t might be a rippoff for you. so do not bring relative concepts into this thread because its stupid to talk about philosophies here.

Its just stupid.

Well, I didn't say he was unethical, did I?

He should have been neg repped simply for wasting people's time. Are people not supposed to bid on anything on this forum if the price is good? I fail to see how the bidders did anything wrong. People have a right to be upset when someone doesn't do what they say they are going to do. It's not much different than lying imo. If you ran an auction on this forum for two weeks and then the guy that had the highest bid just said, "oh, I changed my mind", wouldn't you be upset? I would be.

 

[aridash]

... if he deserves a neg rep for being stupid and not informed, then so does the buyer for doing all possible to take advantage of his stupidity and not warn him. If you are so ethic oriented all of a sudden, why are not all the way? Why just one sided?

but it was an auction, why is there any obligation for the bidders to start from a supposed "market rate" and go up from there? you seem to be objecting to the process of running an auction.

If its unethical to remove a sale for some reason, then its also unethical to not inform the seller of what the true value of the item is...

They buyers are implying the seller isnt being ethical, if you pull that sorta cheap shit to neg rep someone than youre no better than him. Its his decision, saying hes unethical just means all the bidders were unethical by taking advantage of a clearly outrageous bargain.

as are you. the seller offered an item for auction with a deadline set, SB made and bids made. its no fault of the bidders that no one out bid them by the time stated. theres no bargin or any taking advantage, no other bidders came forward, that was the market price at the time on EF.

Well, given the way this was described, I see no reason for why the seller cannot choose not to remove the auction. There is nothing unethical, as the seller never signed any binding agreement not to do so.

there was an implicit agreement to sell at the highest bid on the date stated. true, theres no binding agreement, which is why its unethical rather than illegal or breach of contract.