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Thing to remember in HG vs. Rifle discussion

M

Moser

Old Alpha
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
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Norway
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Dawn Daemons
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Mark Moser Jorgensen
This is just a little reminder to people comparing different weapons up against eachother.
Lets say a handgun is 0.8 sec reload and 60 damage when amped :
75 dam / sec.
And a rifle is 1.6 sec reload and 120 damage :
75 dam / sec.

It is hard to really click with those exact interwalls. So lets say you have an average delay of 0.2 sec. That makes the dam / sec for the handgun = 60 and for the rifle = 67 dam / sec. Even with 0.1 sec delay the difference is significant.

This is not a "rifle is best because I have one" thread because I know hanguns have their advantages too. (fapping, skills?)

Cheers :silly2:
 
Some handguns are better than others... and same with rifles... but if you whant skills faster, hand gun is the way to go.
 
BlackHawk said:
Some handguns are better than others... and same with rifles... but if you whant skills faster, hand gun is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Actually, Higher Dmg/sec+decay is the way to go for skill gains, the discipline is largely unimportant. Cost of use is more important.
 
Last edited:
AkiranBlade said:
Actually, Higher Dmg/sec+decay is the way to go, the disciple is largely unimportant. Cost of use is more important.
Click to expand...

I have to agree with you here AB. I started playing a year ago and trained rifle ( now at 3.5k) and I use a justy mk2. Started training HG 3 months ago and use an EP22. both guns are amped but the faster reload of the ep22 gives me more killing power than the mk2. Now I just need MA to make an unlimited H400 and I'll be all set :laugh:
 
I think most people have quiet accurate timing. So 0,1 ms seems a bit much. Also, larger interfals are harder to time, so will have larger offset.
 
You can also turn on the option to queue events after reload so removing the lag for slower firing weapons - if you can click more than 1 a second it will remove the lag for faster weapons too :)
 
Witte said:
I think most people have quiet accurate timing. So 0,1 ms seems a bit much. Also, larger interfals are harder to time, so will have larger offset.
Click to expand...

I would not agree as at least I feel I have worse timing when I have to click so fast. Ofc I have no data on this so it is an assumption.

Iwe hunted with a handgun for the last 2-3 weeks and Iwe noticed I often end up just clicking like a madman without taking the bar movement into concideration after some hours of hunting. :laugh:
 
Moser said:
I would not agree as at least I feel I have worse timing when I have to click so fast. Ofc I have no data on this so it is an assumption.

Iwe hunted with a handgun for the last 2-3 weeks and Iwe noticed I often end up just clicking like a madman without taking the bar movement into concideration after some hours of hunting. :laugh:
Click to expand...

I think it is very dependent on personal skill. Very small intervals will be hard, very long even harder. There will likely be a most ideal interval. But I have no idea what that is. Maybe there is somthing about it on wikipedia or somthing.
 
BlackHawk said:
Some handguns are better than others... and same with rifles... but if you whant skills faster, hand gun is the way to go.
Click to expand...

why is hg skilling more fast if it has same reload and dmg/sec as rifle? I see something totally different with rifle - much less running to next mob when you have range... =)


J.
 
Moser said:
I would not agree as at least I feel I have worse timing when I have to click so fast. Ofc I have no data on this so it is an assumption.

Iwe hunted with a handgun for the last 2-3 weeks and Iwe noticed I often end up just clicking like a madman without taking the bar movement into concideration after some hours of hunting. :laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm a HG guy myself and I actually really dislike the slow rate of fire on most rifles, but Maddox IV for instance is pretty crazy indeed. I have settled for Imp EP-21 which (only) has 60 attacks/sec and it fits me like a glove. A glove which can fire medium weapon cells and can kill mobs that is. :D
 
Put reload on queue and you wont have that problem :) Then double click instead of clicking every time.

Personally Ive been using handgun for over 3 years now, same gun for over 2 years.. it is what I am used to so I am pretty used to the reload. :)
 
I have no problem with timing, but then coming from a fast paced FPS arena that might explain why.

With regard to timings, if you use the queue system it is actually slower than if you were to do the shooting manually. I can get the weapon to run through shots quicker always. There is always a little delay using the queue (or even right click instead of left click.)

It is something you will just have to adapt to.

However, I do feel that a faster reloading weapon suffers from the issues of lagged/lag missed shots more so than the slower weapons.
 
craystar said:
You can also turn on the option to queue events after reload so removing the lag for slower firing weapons - if you can click more than 1 a second it will remove the lag for faster weapons too :)
Click to expand...

Yep - I have this turned on. Just click away. The gun/fap/tool will fire/operate as soon as it is reloaded, negating any reaction time difference on the use of the weapon etc. If this is what you were getting at in your first post.

Edit - after seeing AB's reply above. I find no difference, but I must say I have not tested this for over a year now...
 
safara said:
Edit - after seeing AB's reply above. I find no difference, but I must say I have not tested this for over a year now...
Click to expand...

You will notice the difference by looking at the reload bar, when it goes to max (or reset) position, there is a minimal delay before the next shot is fired.

When you hit manually, you can get the next shot fired almost simultaneous to the reload bar hitting the max position.
 
AkiranBlade said:
You will notice the difference by looking at the reload bar, when it goes to max (or reset) position, there is a minimal delay before the next shot is fired.

When you hit manually, you can get the next shot fired almost simultaneous to the reload bar hitting the max position.
Click to expand...

I put it down to lag (my internet connection + crappy laptop), but if i try to cheat the reload time, I miss.

I have to wait for the 'Click' before shooting again.

Therefore I know for a fact with a 60 per min gun, i'll only really be able to do 50
 
Thanx for all youre replies. I made this thread because I realised I was doing far less dam/sec with my handgun than with my rifle, even tho my rifle isnt THAT much better. Take it into concideration when you buy something with less than 1 sec reload.
 
I've said that HG skills faster because it usualy has a better reload. Therefor, better damage/sec. You can make range relevant/irelevant by selecting the mob and the density... If you try ambu @ Nea you can walk and kill all day long with no need for range...
When skills are involved, speed id the most important factor. If we talk only eco, it may be diferent...
 
AkiranBlade said:
You will notice the difference by looking at the reload bar, when it goes to max (or reset) position, there is a minimal delay before the next shot is fired.

When you hit manually, you can get the next shot fired almost simultaneous to the reload bar hitting the max position.
Click to expand...

Funny, I was on manual fire for 1.5 years, then switched to queue and found it faster (and I think my timing is pretty good). I also found I missed less...
 
Xen said:
Funny, I was on manual fire for 1.5 years, then switched to queue and found it faster (and I think my timing is pretty good). I also found I missed less...
Click to expand...

Are you guys talking about the same thing?

If I understand it correct, AB is talking about manual aim and you're talking about the "Queue next action" option?

Manual aim (mob not selected during shooting) does make a significant difference in timing for me, as I too experience the slight delay after reload has finished and before the next shot is actually fired after my pull of the trigger... erm... click of the mouse :)
 
BlackHawk said:
...You can make range relevant/irelevant by selecting the mob and the density... If you try ambu @ Nea you can walk and kill all day long with no need for range...
Click to expand...

still!

look at the image below. to cover the same area of a 100m range rifle you have to walk through at least the circle of a 60m radius with a 40m range handgun after clearing it's own range. that alone makes it almost 400m of walking/running ;)

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]


J.
 
...

rifle = long-mid range. when the mob gets close, use a handgun...

i mean, Hello, rifle is too slow usually for the bigger mobs, it'll kill ya b/c you cant get to your healing tool fast enough.
 
I think I should perhaps do a little video of the difference between the two ;)

I didn't like using the queue function because of the way it commites you to an action when I may need to FAP.

CAC, yeah, I often do miss more, but there is a 'sweet' spot just before the click comes in when you don't miss more than you should.
 
You are right. But if the radar is full of red dots, you don't have to run. All the time you have one mob in range or one step away from range. That is in any longu/ambu land. Those are good skilling mobs... As a proof, in contests for loot, MM usualy wins vs IMKII...
I will not say that range dose not have its advantages. Is obvious that is important. I wish I had a jungle stalker, but I've passed a good chance to buy it, and I will never have enough to buy one... If I deposit, it will be for IMKII... so all I can hope, is a nice uber... Most people I know had a loot above 15k on mobs I hunt, so my day will come...
 
Pretender said:
...

rifle = long-mid range. when the mob gets close, use a handgun...

i mean, Hello, rifle is too slow usually for the bigger mobs, it'll kill ya b/c you cant get to your healing tool fast enough.
Click to expand...

hmmm... I thought the first rule is to skill one weapon closer to max but hey, what do I know =)

P.S. usually doesn't say always. moreover, rifle gives you a nice chance to hit the bigger mob's health down quite a bit before it reaches you.

another 2 pecs.


J.
 
I use queue now and then. I dont think I hit less and it doesnt seem to me that the reload is any less quick then when usuing manual hitting.

I mostly use queue option while dealing with fast guns that Im not used to, like Adj v1 for example. Instead of then hitting the mousebutton every time when the reload time is done, I just hit the mousebutton once in the middle of every reload.

AkiranBlade said:
I didn't like using the queue function because of the way it commites you to an action when I may need to FAP.
Click to expand...

It doesnt commit you to an action :) Even tho you are clicking like nuts you can still break the queue when pulling out another piece of equipment :)

In the dicsussion of which is best; HG or Rifle; the answer is simple and diplomatic; A combo.
 
BlackHawk said:
You are right. But if the radar is full of red dots, you don't have to run. All the time you have one mob in range or one step away from range. That is in any longu/ambu land. Those are good skilling mobs... As a proof, in contests for loot, MM usualy wins vs IMKII...
I will not say that range dose not have its advantages. Is obvious that is important. I wish I had a jungle stalker, but I've passed a good chance to buy it, and I will never have enough to buy one... If I deposit, it will be for IMKII... so all I can hope, is a nice uber... Most people I know had a loot above 15k on mobs I hunt, so my day will come...
Click to expand...

yeah, those ranged with nice reload and dmg/sec cost a bit... =)

now concerning MM vs. imk2 contest, it's totally theoretical. first of all, globalling and hoffing is quite random. on the other hand, MM makes 20% more dmg/sec. very important factor is eco. MM has lower eco, thus it puts more back into lootpool which might click more globals/hofs, but there is no certanty in that theory. a big factor to imk2's side is better average return because closer to 10% better eco which matters in the long run for sure.

ok, those are still not very common weapons but the same aplies to all of weapons, if there is no hidden data under weapon's stats of course =)


another 3 pecs =)


J.
 
Skam said:
I use queue now and then. I dont think I hit less and it doesnt seem to me that the reload is any less quick then when usuing manual hitting.
Click to expand...

When I do the video for this, you will all see what I mean :)

Skam said:
It doesnt commit you to an action :) Even tho you are clicking like nuts you can still break the queue when pulling out another piece of equipment :)

In the dicsussion of which is best; HG or Rifle; the answer is simple and diplomatic; A combo.
Click to expand...

I know but often I was stuck with an action when I used it. Caught me out too many times, so I succeed with manual better. That's probably down to lag more than anything.
 
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