What do you think about David Simmonds answers about EU being a gambling game?

yeeck

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EU can be played many different ways. There are some players that play EU like a casino (
LOL you are indirectly educating everyone that...
I thought when I joined EU is just a free to play RCE game.
I have just entered a casino? OMG
 

Xavier_Jr

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When a new player arrives at "Entropia Universe" it is recommended to do the following analysis.
1. What resources do I have to play it? (Intelligence, knowledges, money, skills for social relations, skills for business ... etc.)
2. What realistic goals do I want for myself based on my resources? (Fun, Social Relations, Recognition, Earning Money or even to be only a "Gambler" )
3. What should be my limit on the use of my resources? (Active hours for analysis and knowledge, maximum monthly money that does not make me unhappy if I lose it)

After doing this analysis, you should to make a strategy to achieve the goals and objectives set.

However what you must first to make to define your strategy:
1. Investigate how the game operates by learning from the Entropedia, what the developers said and what can be learned from the best players (if you are lucky enough to reach them). -- Keyword for this part is "Market Value" --
2. Determine their own limits (Answer the next question: What should be my game level to continue being a happy man?)

After that, you will be able to know if you will hunt, if you will mine, if you will craft, if you will trade, what and at what level you will do it, or if you will only seek to make friends!!
 

xodus4000

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I think the interview was a complete disaster. He looked and spoke insecurely about, well, practically everything, spouting excuses, huffing and puffing. I am really sorry to see a great concept going down the drain. But this interview and the entire piece about EU gave me a good understanding of why it's heading into that direction.
 

Ace Flyster

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I guess the only thing that matters is what the appropriate 'Gambling Authority' depicts as 'gambling'. Otherwise, walking the street is gambling with your life - investing in the stock exchange is gambling with your money - but none of that matters if the 'Gambling Authority' says: That is not gambling as far as we are concerned.

Rgds

Ace
 

jetsina

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Intrinsically, pressing a button, waiting a few seconds for a result, then repeating is a very 'pull slot machine arm' manoeuvre. In that respect, the recentish changes to our 'camera' that resulted in 'F'-all the time has pushed us closer to slots even. BUT, players can also freelance at the joint, serving drinks, dealing in items paid out etc. We have 'business opportunities' between players here that are unavailable at a casino. If regulators are happy that this fulfills criteria for a business environment more than a gambling one, then fine...
The interview wasn't great, no, but asking the gambling angle multiple times suggested to me a bad interviewer, not a bad guest. In the main part before the interview there were several LOL moments showing the poor depth the researcher had reached, such as the idea that people were getting rich selling mankinis, for example!!!! What was your biggest LOL-moment from the vid?
 

Evey

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The interview wasn't great, no, but asking the gambling angle multiple times suggested to me a bad interviewer, not a bad guest.
I think the interview was pretty bad and Simmonds was a bad guest, for that type of investigation, because that's what it was an interrogation for a crime the "journalist" was looking for Simmonds to confess :D
MA really needs a better spokesperson, because Simmonds' charisma is negative :D they should hire a professional or at least a gamer, with a bit of charisma, to talk the gamers' language...


The interview and the whole clip was very good for the cancerforum admins, they never seen porn this good in their entire life :D They're all over the comments section trashing any EU player calling out the BS from the movie. They are so happy that even if they payed for it couldn't gone so well, or maybe they did :)))))) good for them, they seem to have good fun, probably the best fun since they played EU before they found out "it's a casino" :D
 

Hego Damask

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The loot system is not gambling, calculated return in long term based on gear, skills, choice's.

But there are gambling / luck element's like:

The same mob gives shrap, oil and esi, etc and other common stuff for all, but 1 get M91 Stalker Augmented, that drop have nothing to do with gear, skills, just pure luck.

Boxes, you can open K's of them without seasonal ring, while somebody get a Halloween 2019 ring from his first ever halloween box.
Ofc the more you open the more chance you will have to get one, and that is the reason why ubers get a lot of them, they open much more than others, but this is partly gambling.

Mayhem competition's with the 5k score's are also luck based, so partly gambling, where the better gear and bigger bankroll have advantege, but this is also gambling.

So yes, EU is have gambling in it, but not with the TT return of the players.
And to be honest, i like all of these as they are now, its not complaining, just example's.
 
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Spawn

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After some many years, finally someone did this interview.
Because EU is in top 10 game chart?
I respect and appreciate on how he did it. Straight to the point with a realistic mind.

However, on the point of EU is a game of chance. Nothing close to that at all.
He should try to play EU with depo. Then, he will realised that depo into the casino will have so much more higher chance.
LOL
Ok I depo 100euros in the casino on black. I lose. 10 seconds of fun...
How can I do that in Entropia?
 

xxPriestxx

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There are many plausible arguments/rebuttals that EU is not a casino and is not "gambling". To David's point, by the legal definition - it is not. Simple as that.

However, I think two things primarily:
1) The interviewer took an extremely narrow viewpoint of the game and clearly had an agenda from the onset, which is unfortunate.
2) The answers to the questions..........could have been handled MUCH better :).
 

Xavier_Jr

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The loot system is not gambling, calculated return in long term based on gear, skills, choice's.

But there are gambling / luck element's like:

The same mob gives shrap, oil and esi, etc and other common stuff for all, but 1 get M91 Stalker Augmented, that drop have nothing to do with gear, skills, just pure luck.

Boxes, you can open K's of them without seasonal ring, while somebody get a Halloween 2019 ring from his first ever halloween box.
Ofc the more you open the more chance you will have to get one, and that is the reason why ubers get a lot of them, they open much more than others, but this is partly gambling.

Mayhem competition's with the 5k score's are also luck based, so partly gambling, where the better gear and bigger bankroll have advantege, but this is also gambling.
hmm... To be honest, most MMORPGs online would fit your definition of "gambling". ;)

(In fact, the objects in the boxes are valued by the base of players through the MU, since its TT value for MA is the same 10 peds that it charges for them. )

NOTE: In our virtual world the only loot that can be considered a lottery is the ATH. However, the vast majority of players do not base their game on them. - Like in the real world almost nobody bases their economy on US lotto numbers -
 
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Sirhc

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There have always been risk VS reward elements in PE/EU, I don't think this is anything new and the interviewer makes it seem as if they've uncovered some huge secret. I've had my issues with MA for sure but it is a personal choice to play this game and at what level you want to participate in. Granted if you go for broke and chase ATHs or whatever then your risk level is high and there can be negative outcomes. Personal responsibility and accountability always come to mind when it comes to EU and life in general. I've made dumb ass mistakes in games and in real life but I learn from them all the same.

I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs in real life sink everything they have into an idea that never pans out and others who utilize their skills and knowledge to make things work for them even if they never get some type of windfall event. Then there are others who just happen to be at the right place and right time where everything aligns for their benefit and they seize that opportunity. Granted those who secure enough funding to weather storms tend to fare better down the road. Part of the appeal of EU is that entrepreneurial spirit but it sucks when people scam and take advantage of weaknesses in the system but that happens in life as well.

David Simmonds answers weren't the best nor the worst. He seemed taken aback by some of the questioning and maybe he didn't realize this is where things were going to go but he should have been prepared for it. Media these days always trends towards the negative so you should go into that mindset when interviewed. They will also take statements out of context to suit their narrative. I've made crabby comments about MA over the years but also give them their due when they do things right some of that could be taken out of context and not entirely reflect how I feel about things today. I would like to hear the entire player interview responses since they could tell a different story.
 
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yeeck

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Ok I depo 100euros in the casino on black. I lose. 10 seconds of fun...
How can I do that in Entropia?
Bro, come on... that is not even a question to be discussed.
From what I know, majority of 1st timer bet, won and left happily ever after.
If you are talking going back again and again, wait... stop there.
I don't encourage gambling ya
.
.
.
.
.
.
So, you agree EU is a game, right?
We spend to play and pay to win.
 
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Timewarpman1

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I'm glad at least some people can see how much EU can be gambling and a little bit of business.

I mean A LOT gambling but also some business.

Kudos.
 

Xavier_Jr

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In short: "There is everything in the Lord's vineyard". - Equality never existed and that is why the world works well. -

Let me tell you that in the real world I have two college degrees. I am a Chemical Engineer and I am also a Systems Engineer. And based on that I can perfectly understand the name of our game: Entropia Universe. (Entropy Universe)

Our real universe is based on entropy changes. Entropy is a measure of the chaos or disorder that a system has. Chaos or disorder is based on the existence of differences. And it is the differences that allow the universe to work (allowing the accumulated energy to be converted into useful work. Transformative and creative work, flowing from a place of high energy to a place of low energy). But when the differences disappear and total equality is reached, the entropy change will be 0 and the universe will die!

This more than a game is a virtual world exactly simulating all the principles of the real world!

Summing up again: Is Entropia Universe a gambling? NO. It is not. But why is not? Because it has a solution!. Because there are people who have the ability to find that solution and can play for free. Therefore it is a game based on personal and avatar skills. There is no casino that allows anyone to play for free during 5 years or more, as this game allows it!

Can You Get Rich Playing Entropia Universe? Yes. Someone else did it in the history of the game. That we all know perfectly. But it is something exceptional and not common. Just as it is not common in the real world, it is the same in the virtual world, because the same people who play the Entropia Universe are the same diverse people who live in the world.

Did David Simons explain and be convincing about this? Sadly, apparently not. But it is also true that he did not edit or produce the interview, which in my opinion shows manipulation due to bias of the journalist. :wtg:
 
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yeeck

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In short: "There is everything in the Lord's vineyard". - Equality never existed and that is why the world works well. -

Did David Simons explain and be convincing about this? Sadly, apparently not. But it is also true that he did not edit or produce the interview, which in my opinion shows manipulation due to bias of the journalist. :wtg:
Instead of giving your comments here, why not try to do something to rebuke on what the journalist wrote on his website, facebook or any social media?
Calling someone as manipulator is as easy as calling players who complain about EU to quit.

I give you one good point. Those players who always claim to make $$$ in EU and inviting others to play for it are the real CASINO.
MA is just providing a business platform for entertainment only.
Why can't say that?
Tell everyone that you make $$$ in EU is so important?
 

Crimis

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Gambling would have better odds, so its not gambling ;-)
Just endless deposits. Maybe if you deposit 50K euro and buy the high-end gear the odds get better, but why would someone do this?
They can pull the plug anytime they want so to big of a risk for me.
 

Xavier_Jr

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Instead of giving your comments here, why not try to do something to rebuke on what the journalist wrote on his website, facebook or any social media?
In fact I did it.

(And believe me, telling people the truth is not easy, because they don't accept it. Descartes thought that reason was the best distributed in nature, because everyone always believes they have it! That is why it is best to establish the logic of the facts.)


I give you one good point. Those players who always claim to make $$$ in EU and inviting others to play for it are the real CASINO.
MA is just providing a business platform for entertainment only.
Why can't say that?
Tell everyone that you make $$$ in EU is so important?
What you think is a good point is only in your head. This is only a casino in your head. EU is a virtual world!

In casino you can not find a solution to puzzle. Because only luck like you know is the only way to play there.

However this is not the reality here. Because there exist people that knows the solution to this game. And that is not luck.

Entropia Universe is a virtual world simulating the real world, thats all.

(I can not do more. If people do not understand it, they can think like they wish. ;) )
 
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stc44

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That was strange interview from both sides IMO
Journalist: "So EU is a casino game"
Developer: "Well, u know what ... [2 minutes of nonsense] "
J: "So it'a casino game after all"
D: "Well, not exactly ... [[another 2 minutes of nonsense]"
J: "But haven't you just agreed that EU is a casino game"
D: "Well, actually ... [[another 2 minutes of nonsense]"
J: "So after all its a casino game"
D: "Well ... [[another 2 minutes of nonsense]"
J: We all have to agree that EU is a casino game
 

jambon

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Is Entropia a casino? Honesty, it depends on what you're doing in it and where you draw the line to "gambling". Do you consider investing in stocks gambling? Does it only count as gambling if you're randomly picking stocks rather than making educated decisions which ones to buy? What about investing in real estate? What about starting a business? All of these things have risks associated with them and are generally done with the sole purpose of being able to get more money out of it than you put in. There is skill, chance and risk associated with all 3 of those things.

Personally, I don't considering things like sweating, shop ownership, land area ownership, land deed ownership, trading...etc. to be gambling. At least no more so than the other things I mentioned above.

Considering the vast freedom we have in this game to do things on a spectrum with freely socializing with people while sweating on one end, heavy business investment on the other and gambling in the middle you can't blanket statement and say "yes it's a casino" just because there is the ability to gamble in it.

Messi made a good point to this about Explosive Projectiles. That item and the ability to craft it is no more gambling than crafting inventory to sell in a shop in game. It's an ammo that people use, it has a markup and can sensibly be crafted using QTY in small runs and to produce only what is needed. It only becomes truly a vehicle of gambling when people choose to use the highest level blueprint, run it up to full condition and set it to auto churn with a budget higher than most peoples monthly rent. On the other hand, even the most sensible of business moves or investments can be considered gambling when handled foolishly. So where's the distinction?

Bottom line, is there gambling elements in Entropia - yes. Should it be defined by its gambling element and just called a "gambling game" - no.

One thing we can all agree on is EU is not a charity were everyone gets a guaranteed free handout. There are varying degrees of risk putting your money into anything with the hopes of being able to get more out than you put in. The semantics of whether you want to label it "gambling" or an "investment" doesn't matter. On the surface, the process is essentially the same thing for most people. One persons "investment" is another persons "gamble".
 
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Mega

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One thing we can all agree on is EU is not a charity were everyone gets a guaranteed free handout. There are varying degrees of risk putting your money into anything with the hopes of being able to get more out than you put in. The semantics of whether you want to label it "gambling" or an "investment" doesn't matter. On the surface, the process is essentially the same thing for most people. I've seen gamblers and investors spend days crunching numbers trying to gain the edge on a gamble or to discover a worthy investment opportunity. I've also seen investors and gamblers roll the dice on random picks that they get a gut feeling will be a money maker.
Well in the real world those who consistently exploit, cheat, scam, thieve and act as complete ****s get not just banned, but put in prison for their actions.

It is truly sickening to the majority of us who have played the game properly by the rules all this time.

Do yoiu think Mindark care about Entropia any more? Because I've seen no evidence of it this year.


Game Over
 

Chiee

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Well in the real world those who consistently exploit, cheat, scam, thieve and act as complete ****s get not just banned, but put in prison for their actions.

It is truly sickening to the majority of us who have played the game properly by the rules all this time.

Do yoiu think Mindark care about Entropia any more? Because I've seen no evidence of it this year.


Game Over
Im not sure when they fixed enchancers or made other last VU's etc but still I would say they have improved everyones gameplay and lot during this year. Making things easier to look and compare etc. You know :)
 

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Sulje

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It's fun and all when you pay $5-10 a month to play, or play for free and chill around collect fruits, make friends etc.

It can also be a casino, whoever says otherwise, he/she probably has invested more then 10-20-30 or even 100k dollars into the game, and he/she protects their investment, because if there are no new players (losers) - their investment is worthless.

I will take weapon for example, that has 300 PED TT value (the value it's actually worth), and markup of +100 000 PED - this +100k PED are imaginary, and can easily go away if there's nobody left playing to buy it. There is no law to protect you in this case, as you have agreed to give up your rights upon signing the user agreement.
 

messi91

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It's fun and all when you pay $5-10 a month to play, or play for free and chill around collect fruits, make friends etc.

It can also be a casino, whoever says otherwise, he/she probably has invested more then 10-20-30 or even 100k dollars into the game, and he/she protects their investment, because if there are no new players (losers) - their investment is worthless.

I will take weapon for example, that has 300 PED TT value (the value it's actually worth), and markup of +100 000 PED - this +100k PED are imaginary, and can easily go away if there's nobody left playing to buy it. There is no law to protect you in this case, as you have agreed to give up your rights upon signing the user agreement.
Whatever you said here is not considered argument that whatever you believe is considered gambling or casino.Its just a summary on what perception you have on some elements about the game that has nothing to do with if the design or if the system is a casino.
Again if you point out something by design is considered gambling then point out the facts.
 

Timewarpman1

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Whatever you said here is not considered argument that whatever you believe is considered gambling or casino.Its just a summary on what perception you have on some elements about the game that has nothing to do with if the design or if the system is a casino.
Again if you point out something by design is considered gambling then point out the facts.
That's funny coming from someone who probably has more invested in the game than someone in the stock market.

In fact I say your response is motivated completely on bias because your perceptions are reliant on SOLELY on the losses of the player base.
Otherwise you'd just be playing any other game that WASN'T RCE.
 

messi91

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That's funny coming from someone who probably has more invested in the game than someone in the stock market.
In the same time its funny because I never step inside a casino or don't play risky games where my ods are fixed and where I can't do anything to improve my ods to win one way or another.
Considering that I made heavy amount of analysis before I went all in and invested all my money in this game.That did not happen by accident.The only risk I took into consideration was if the game will go bankrupt within the next 3 years at that time but even with that in mind I knew its a probability that someone else might buy the project and continue to do development which is better anyway than a bankruptcy.
 

Evey

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... your perceptions are reliant on SOLELY on the losses of the player base.
Otherwise you'd just be playing any other game that WASN'T RCE.
This is a bullshit argument I see thrown pretty often nowadays...
What does this even mean?
Now there's "white profiting" and "black profiting"? Like white hacking?
What's profiting from other player's losses? This used to be in hunting before loot 2.0 when we figured out (pretty late in my case) that tt profit comes from other ppls tt loss and everyone (well, the smart people anyway) was chasing for better DPP.
But nowadays you provide a service that is in demand to make a profit. That is it. Be it mining amps of weapons, or oils from hunt or resources from mining... The profit comes from markup. This is the blueprint for PED which you keep looking for but it's everywhere on the forums and you seem to be allergic to the explanations....
People also pay for markup when it's an investment with a potential of generating revenue or fun. That's not a loss. Or it's an acceptable loss. understand what it does and it's all fine. But if you make an investment thinking it would create money our f MAs pockets, like Rick did, then maybe you should hire an accountant to manage your money coz you are shit at it :D
 

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To anther the OPs question:

Does David convince me that this game is not gambling?
Well, he don´t need to, as I already know it is not.
 

addz

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I don't think he even knows what the game is or how it actually works anymore, he's too busy counting his money XD
 
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