Yog Pet Buff Issue

allarom

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I understand that it most likely gets ignored by MA, but maybe some update on this?
 

NIckki

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Ludvig - Thank you very much for reviewing the status of this case.
 

Mega

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We are currently working on this issue, but it will take some time. Thank you for your patience.

Ok, let's be generous, you have the above. Reasonable?
 

Liu

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Another week goes by and cheaters are still roaming free and wild.
 

Kerham

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I honestly don't understand how MA can investigate this issue. Running with the pet spawned is a legitimate action, what they need to determine is the bad faith. Except cases of sheer stupiditiy, I don't see how this can be proven.
 

Raffaele Meiers

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I honestly don't understand how MA can investigate this issue. Running with the pet spawned is a legitimate action, what they need to determine is the bad faith. Except cases of sheer stupiditiy, I don't see how this can be proven.
With evidence or abductive reasoning . If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

So if someone gets a pet from a friend who has only mining buffs and he uses it in a hunting instance, spawns it inside and activates buff and hunts while having the pet deployed. Then he gives back the pet to his friend who then enters the instance to deploy the pet and uses it while hunting.
Then it could not be for skilling the pet or using the intended buff of the pet as it already had unlocked its buff and you cant mine in such a instance what reason other than using the bug has someone to deploy the pet in the instance Kerham?
You surely can explain to all of us why someone spends food on the pet to use it in a instance it has no use other than spending money, using time to deploy it etc.

Thank you Kerham for enlighten us with your knowledge.

Driving with a car is a legitimate action but to drive over a person not.

PS:
Jurors, for example, use such reasoning when making decisions in court, as they must rely on the best available evidence, which is usually not enough to be considered scientifically sufficient for conclusive judgment.
 
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allarom

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I honestly don't understand how MA can investigate this issue. Running with the pet spawned is a legitimate action, what they need to determine is the bad faith. Except cases of sheer stupiditiy, I don't see how this can be proven.
They don't have to prove anything, read their statement first!
 

MikeH

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With evidence or abductive reasoning . If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

So if someone gets a pet from a friend who has only mining buffs and he uses it in a hunting instance, spawns it inside and activates buff and hunts while having the pet deployed. Then he gives back the pet to his friend who then enters the instance to deploy the pet and uses it while hunting.
Then it could not be for skilling the pet or using the intended buff of the pet as it already had unlocked its buff and you cant mine in such a instance what reason other than using the bug has someone to deploy the pet in the instance Kerham?
You surely can explain to all of us why someone spends food on the pet to use it in a instance it has no use other than spending money, using time to deploy it etc.

Thank you Kerham for enlighten us with your knowledge.

Driving with a car is a legitimate action but to drive over a person not.

PS:
Jurors, for example, use such reasoning when making decisions in court, as they must rely on the best available evidence, which is usually not enough to be considered scientifically sufficient for conclusive judgment.
*Not defending anyone just some random input *

Pets gives skills when spawned so lets say i bought a fully unlocked pet and enabled buff (doesnt matter what buff. i beleive more food more skill gains) so i should get banned for keeping it spawned inside instance where i am running on skill boost pills etc ?
 

Raffaele Meiers

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*Not defending anyone just some random input *

Pets gives skills when spawned so lets say i bought a fully unlocked pet and enabled buff (doesnt matter what buff. i beleive more food more skill gains) so i should get banned for keeping it spawned inside instance where i am running on skill boost pills etc ?
Did you not read the part, get the pet befor entering the instance, not buying it, from a friend and give it back after the run? And second incorrect statement is that you "keeping it spawned inside instance" You have to respawn the pet when you enter the instance. So it is not a "by mistake" action it is a intended action to spawn the pet in the instance again. And thirdly you suggest the person had a skill boost pill consumed. Did you do it like that or where did I mention that he had a skill boost pill used? Or is this the reasoning the users of the yog pet buff said they had? If so do they have their chat log as prove for it or is this only ment as a distraction, your explanation, which left out several of the points I made and introduced as a potential explanation that you gain mining skills while hunting when you have a mining buff pet deploied with the mining buff active?

PS: I never ever gained mining skills while hunting also when I had a pet with mining buff activated and spawned. Do you have prove for your statement that you gain mining skills while hunting and haveing a skill boost pill and a mining buff pet active?
 

Raffaele Meiers

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The Pet gets a skill boost when you are using a skill buff pill? Really? The pill also boosts the skill gains of the pet when used on the avatar? Do you have prove for that or is this a try to find reasons to excuse the abusers?
 

MikeH

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Did you not read the part, get the pet befor entering the instance, not buying it, from a friend and give it back after the run? And second incorrect statement is that you "keeping it spawned inside instance" You have to respawn the pet when you enter the instance. So it is not a "by mistake" action it is a intended action to spawn the pet in the instance again. And thirdly you suggest the person had a skill boost pill consumed. Did you do it like that or where did I mention that he had a skill boost pill used? Or is this the reasoning the users of the yog pet buff said they had? If so do they have their chat log as prove for it or is this only ment as a distraction, your explanation, which left out several of the points I made and introduced as a potential explanation that you gain mining skills while hunting when you have a mining buff pet deploied with the mining buff active?

PS: I never ever gained mining skills while hunting also when I had a pet with mining buff activated and spawned. Do you have prove for your statement that you gain mining skills while hunting and haveing a skill boost pill and a mining buff pet active?
Why they need to borrow i mean yes the pet which were giving 25% buff was rare and costly but the one that gave 10% was 150 ped ....

About the skill gain thing when u have pet spawn it gives certain skills like zoology , alertness etc that contributes to pet handler profession . So if you have skill boost pill running it will also boost those skill gains.
 

mastermesh

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just move on, the past is the past...
Going forward is where the focus should be... what will keep this type of stuff from happening in the future... or other types of same issue(s)... you mention folks trading the pet. How is that much different than the folks trading armor, weapons, and other items to get high ranks in the instances? Why not lock all items used in the instances so they are not tradeable, sellable, etc. til after the entire event is over, etc.
 

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just move on, the past is the past...
Going forward is where the focus should be... what will keep this type of stuff from happening in the future... or other types of same issue(s)... you mention folks trading the pet. How is that much different than the folks trading armor, weapons, and other items to get high ranks in the instances? Why not lock all items used in the instances so they are not tradeable, sellable, etc. til after the entire event is over, etc.
Yooo wake up, the pet was an exploit, and no, don't move on, fix this shit, mayhem costs a lot of money us players hunting in it. LOTS and lots of money and the majority of the universe gets involved in these, hunters, crafters, miners. Trading this pet just to spawn it in the mayhem was a clear sign of exploit and should be punished; and those who lost due to this, compensated. Look at what mayhems means, try to understand it, then tell people to move on....
 

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Well MA can only solve this puzzle if they go through chat of all the users who used pet inside mayhem to determine if they used it intentionally else its impossible.
 

mastermesh

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Yooo wake up, the pet was an exploit, and no, don't move on, fix this shit, mayhem costs a lot of money us players hunting in it. LOTS and lots of money and the majority of the universe gets involved in these, hunters, crafters, miners. Trading this pet just to spawn it in the mayhem was a clear sign of exploit and should be punished; and those who lost due to this, compensated. Look at what mayhems means, try to understand it, then tell people to move on....
Mayhem, just like the rest of the virtual universe is a game. Have fun. Some win. Some lose. Yes, it sucks that people cheat, but this ain't the first time, and sure won't be the last time. It's human nature to get the most out of your money and get away with what the system allows. Since the system allows it, it's really Mindark's fault, not the players fault... as it always has been and always will be. They never really test stuff out enough to stop this crap from happening as a real game dev company should... maybe the future will fix that, but so far, meh... just same ol same ol.

The only reason this exploit is today's news is since it's been hyped... there are likely hundreds of other similar type of exploits happening daily that Mindark and the community have no idea about til one day... then it's a big deal and the next things on everyone's minds.. but it's been going on for eons and no one noticed or cared, and then the flames die down a month or two and it's all back to normal but it's all still happening under the covers... today it's yogs and danny o, tomorrow it's bots and waves... The Monria team, the planet behind the Yog, just bought Toulan, and I'm sure there's going to be some new exploit associated with that purchase here in just a little while...

Hype and sensationalism is what makes the virtual world go round.
 
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Taldur

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Mayhem, just like the rest of the virtual universe is a game. Have fun. Some win. Some lose. Yes, it sucks that people cheat, but this ain't the first time, and sure won't be the last time. It's human nature to get the most out of your money and get away with what the system allows. Since the system allows it, it's really Mindark's fault, not the players fault... as it always has been and always will be.
There's a huge difference between the things that are technically possible and actually allowed or disallowed by rules. Same in real life, just because you can do something doesnt mean you should or are allowed to.
 

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The Yog pet is one of the last pets I would keep out while playing in a Mayhem event because it requires perhaps 4x the "stop to feed" then any other pet. It's unlike any other pet I know of in this regard.

I'm not sure why it was made that way, likely an oversight but it does require a few extra seconds to stop and feed while hunting, maybe every 15 mins or so. That's not something a serious Mayhem contestant would put up with.
 

Boo Who You

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Yog Pet Buff Issue

We will be conducting this investigation over the next few weeks......

Originally Posted Here
Inital post June 17th 2020

We are currently working on this issue, but it will take some time. Thank you for your patience.
Follow up stating nothing has been done thus far...September 8th 2020

We are now at September 20th... It has been 94 days since this was announced and stated their investigation would take course over the next few weeks....

We are 13 going on 14 WEEKS into this....

I really wish that I could get away with this kinda BS with my customers. Would make my job a lot easier.
 

Raffaele Meiers

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Why they need to borrow i mean yes the pet which were giving 25% buff was rare and costly but the one that gave 10% was 150 ped ....

About the skill gain thing when u have pet spawn it gives certain skills like zoology , alertness etc that contributes to pet handler profession . So if you have skill boost pill running it will also boost those skill gains.
Why they need to borrow i mean yes the pet which were giving 25% buff was rare and costly but the one that gave 10% was 150 ped ....

About the skill gain thing when u have pet spawn it gives certain skills like zoology , alertness etc that contributes to pet handler profession . So if you have skill boost pill running it will also boost those skill gains.
Are you sure that you have to have the Buff active while pet is spawned to gain skills? Or is this only to try to distract from real reason they had the pet spawned?
Are you sure that when you not "train" the pet that you gain skills when it is only spawned and you hunt and not engage the pet? Or is this only to try to distract from the real reason they had the pet spawned?
Do you have prove that not training a pet you gain skills like zoology, alertness etc. from having only spawned the pet or is this only your shot at help the bug abusers reasoning the abuse?
 

MikeH

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Are you sure that you have to have the Buff active while pet is spawned to gain skills? Or is this only to try to distract from real reason they had the pet spawned?
Are you sure that when you not "train" the pet that you gain skills when it is only spawned and you hunt and not engage the pet? Or is this only to try to distract from the real reason they had the pet spawned?
Do you have prove that not training a pet you gain skills like zoology, alertness etc. from having only spawned the pet or is this only your shot at help the bug abusers reasoning the abuse?
You get skills as long as pet is fed and spawned nothing to do with tricks (what i mean is i dont necessarily gain skills doing tricks but i do get skills just to have them spawned) ...

I have leveled up normal rabbits wich uses less nutrio and also trained oratan miner pet which eats alot of nutrio per hr. I dont have excel sheet to prove but in expirience more nutrio it eats more skill gains.
 

Kerham

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Are you sure that when you not "train" the pet that you gain skills when it is only spawned and you hunt and not engage the pet? Or is this only to try to distract from the real reason they had the pet spawned?
Have you ever owned a pet? I have my storage full of them and particularly the yog I kept active everywhere (most likely Mayhem too), when rushing to reach lvl10 or whenever it has that buff unlocked. After unlocking it, I only used it circumstantially, because you have to do some math about that when mining, But yes, pets are also trained passively and I have the feeling is more cost effective as food this way, but less cost effective as time.

So what would precisely could have stopped me, an avid miner, to exploit precisely this in Mayhem and how could possibly MA prove it?

Regarding whatever reasoning, I have a major in law, so give me a break with internet lecturing.

In the actual reality, they have one option, that player to have actually written to some friend/socmate about this. Or to have a pattern of behaviour where to be obvious the intent. But the second option it's a mountain of work and still could not produce a conclusion "beyond reasonable doubt".
 
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What will most likely happen is a double or triple skill gain weekend or week. They have clearly already said the exploiters (who all know who they are anyway lol) wont get any punishment at all for whatever mysterious reasons.

If people had kept their mouth shut this exploit would never have known about (same with amp exploit) as support didnt care.

Support are good at locking and deleting threads though in super fast time :)
 

Raffaele Meiers

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The Yog pet is one of the last pets I would keep out while playing in a Mayhem event because it requires perhaps 4x the "stop to feed" then any other pet. It's unlike any other pet I know of in this regard.

I'm not sure why it was made that way, likely an oversight but it does require a few extra seconds to stop and feed while hunting, maybe every 15 mins or so. That's not something a serious Mayhem contestant would put up with.
As we can read here a Yog Pet would be a bad decicion in Mayhem as you would loose time to feed it while in the Instance if it would have not this bug would reduce the time you have to gain points. So all the ones who look to kill the most in the time frame take "by mistake" a Pet which has "no use" into the instance to gain skills while haveing to feed it instead of kill monsters and win a price.

I get it they on one side take the best equipment to deal out as much damage as they can in the instance but then take a pet which they need to spawn and to feed while doing the instance to gain some skills but loose time killing monsters. And you try now to tell me they spent tens of thousands of Ped to have the most damage per sec to then reduce the time they spend killing inside instance because they want some skills gained haveing spaned a pet when they could buy this skills for not even 1% they spent on their equipment and get the same skills outside of instance.

I know I'm stupid in not beliveing that someone who wants to win in a mayhem spend thousands of peds to optimize their equipment and then reduce the time in the instance by spawning a pet and feeding it while doing it.
 

Raffaele Meiers

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You get skills as long as pet is fed and spawned nothing to do with tricks (what i mean is i dont necessarily gain skills doing tricks but i do get skills just to have them spawned) ...

I have leveled up normal rabbits wich uses less nutrio and also trained oratan miner pet which eats alot of nutrio per hr. I dont have excel sheet to prove but in expirience more nutrio it eats more skill gains.
So you have it spawned to gain skills but did you have had the buff on the pet enabled to gain skills? I thought doing it costs more food and as you have to unlock it first skill gain is not linked to activate the buff it seams.

PS: yes I have also tamed, skilled and unlocked buffs on pets in my time in EU but I never activated the buff on a pet when I did not need it to spend more nutrio than I have to. Same as I never toot a pill when I did not need it.
 

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As we can read here a Yog Pet would be a bad decicion in Mayhem as you would loose time to feed it while in the Instance if it would have not this bug would reduce the time you have to gain points. So all the ones who look to kill the most in the time frame take "by mistake" a Pet which has "no use" into the instance to gain skills while haveing to feed it instead of kill monsters and win a price.

I get it they on one side take the best equipment to deal out as much damage as they can in the instance but then take a pet which they need to spawn and to feed while doing the instance to gain some skills but loose time killing monsters. And you try now to tell me they spent tens of thousands of Ped to have the most damage per sec to then reduce the time they spend killing inside instance because they want some skills gained haveing spaned a pet when they could buy this skills for not even 1% they spent on their equipment and get the same skills outside of instance.

I know I'm stupid in not beliveing that someone who wants to win in a mayhem spend thousands of peds to optimize their equipment and then reduce the time in the instance by spawning a pet and feeding it while doing it.
They also sacrifice the opportunity to use a different pet with a useful buff like movement speed, or auto loot.
 

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Too many discussions . Just need MAs statement and if they punish i really would like to know why they punished and how they determine intentional or unintentional abuse of the bug :D
 

Xen

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Did you not read the part, get the pet befor entering the instance, not buying it, from a friend and give it back after the run?
So the people who used the pet buff and didn't share the pet would get off because they may have just had it out for skill gains, while the ones who shared/borrowed get banned. Seem fair?
 
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