Yog Pet Buff Issue

GxB

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Nope, not how the law works. You (and many others) seem to mix up what is allowed as
as evidence and whats needed to be convicted of a crime (in a criminal case).
Evidence can be anything as long it is objective and rational, but to be convicted for a
crime the prosecutor must both prove that the prosecuted have done the crime and had
intent to do it.


And now something completly different: :D
For those who are bored and have nothing to do, search for "Dunning Kruger effect", specially
about cat 1 people there.

thats just simply not true. why else would tons of people get convicted for tax evasion? i doubt that most of them are tax consultants that know what they were doing. or how comes people get in jail for accidentally killing someone? accidental means they didnt intent to do it but they still killed him and get punished for it.
all you are trying to do is get away with it yourself. thats what it looks like.

i dont know one single country on earth where you can only be punished if you intended to do it. that simply doesnt exist.

doing something intentionally just increases the severity of your punishment.
 
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Joat

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thats just simply not true. why else would tons of people get convicted for tax evasion? i doubt that most of them are tax consultants that know what they were doing. or how comes people get in jail for accidentally killing someone? accidental means they didnt intent to do it but they still killed him and get punished for it.

This is translated with google, not exactly perfect but I hope you can get it anyway:

During a main hearing in a criminal case, the court shall evaluate the evidence presented during the hearing to decide whether or not to prosecute the prosecution. The prosecutor has the burden of proof, which means that it is the prosecutor who must prove that the accused has committed the crime that the prosecutor claims. This involves not only a requirement to show that the accused has actually committed the act, but also that the accused, for example, had the intention to do so. In cases of theft, the prosecutor must therefore not only show that the accused, for example, has taken a commodity and passed the last payment opportunity, but also that the defendant had a deliberate intention, an intention to acquire the goods.

In criminal cases, a high standard of proof applies, which means that the evidence must be strong in order for the accused to be convicted of the accused. The accused must be convicted of a crime if it is beyond a reasonable doubt that he / she has committed the accused. This means that if there is any doubt as to whether the accused has committed the accused and these doubts have been investigated and are within the "limits of reasonableness", the evidentiary requirement is not met. If the evidence requirement were to be converted to a numerical probability number, the evidence requirement would mean a probability of about 95-98%.

In Swedish law, the principles of free trial and free trial apply. (Chapter 35, Section 1 of the Code of Procedure) This means that in principle any evidence may be presented during the main hearing and that the court is free when it evaluates the evidence presented, provided that the examination of evidence is objective and rational. For example, when the court evaluates a testimony, it must assess the credibility and reliability of the witness. Such factors that may in some cases affect the reliability of the statement are whether the witness tells about the incident in a spontaneous way, if the statement is long and detailed and if the statement has not changed from, for example, the preliminary investigation.


When it comes to be convicted for accidentally killing someone that falls under negligence and carelessness.

all you are trying to do is get away with it yourself. thats what it looks like.

This is a good example when some people assume things. Not even close to reality, waaay off. :D
I would never even try to get a placement in an event, they just aren't good/fun enough to
lose a bunch of peds and end up on a honorable 47th position. No thanks. :silly2:

Nah I'm a HSP, so this "shit" I keep repeating here and there is based on that. Don't know if
you know what a HSP personality is, so I can drop some points from Psychology Today that fits EU in
general and this matter in particular:

Being perceptively gifted means you can sense and perceive things that others miss. With acute awareness, you can see beyond superficiality, grasp patterns and make linkages.

Insights, intuition, and the ability to read several layers of reality allow you to assess people and situations rapidly. You can sense incongruence and their intentions, thoughts, and feelings that are underneath the facades.

You have a sense of knowing when something is about to happen, or about other people’s inner worlds.

However, your abilities do not necessarily make life easy. You are bothered by hypocrisies and unfairness and struggle with inauthentic people and situations. You cannot help but be the one who points out the ‘elephant in the room,' but your perceptiveness may seem intimidating to those who felt ‘seen through.'

In a family situation, you may be scapegoated to be the one who carries the painful truth that is unsaid in the facade of normalcy. You may carry the role of being the ‘problematic one’, the scapegoat, or the black sheep.

You have an innate urge to push the boundaries of conformity, to question or to challenge traditions, particularly those that seem meaningless or unfair. Paired with a strong sense of justice, you are often frustrated with corruptions and inequality in the world.


I have been working with narcissists for +33yrs now, and they don't like HSPs at all since they
can't manipulate us as they often try to do with others. Same goes for people in cat1 in DKe.
This community have a bunch of these kind of people, obviously.

i dont know one single country on earth where you can only be punished if you intended to do it. that simply doesnt exist.

Ofc could this all be dealt with as negligence and carelessness, and some other alternative but they
bring new problems. If there is a lower level of crime court might not accept the case due to not
being severe enough. On the other hand, no matter what they are there for, and MA are convicted
that would not even be noticed imo, punishment isn't that hard. Sometimes it isn't that a company
worries about though, but the way to the court.
 

Post_History

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Wow 22 pages in and only one post from a MA Cheer leader we all despise?

I think they are licking their wounds right now as the Cheer leaders are the ones who have been doing wrong for many a year

What is total BS is that MA posts this Thread reads the responses for a few hours and then leaves without a single follow up Statement to the observations of the many here.....
 

Joat

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Wow 22 pages in and only one post from a MA Cheer leader we all despise?

I think they are licking their wounds right now as the Cheer leaders are the ones who have been doing wrong for many a year

What is total BS is that MA posts this Thread reads the responses for a few hours and then leaves without a single follow up Statement to the observations of the many here.....

Wait until tomorrow, there have been a swedish holiday this weekend so they are probably sobering up today. :silly2:
 

Boo Who You

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Wow 22 pages in and only one post from a MA Cheer leader we all despise?

I think they are licking their wounds right now as the Cheer leaders are the ones who have been doing wrong for many a year

What is total BS is that MA posts this Thread reads the responses for a few hours and then leaves without a single follow up Statement to the observations of the many here.....

MA right now hoping that people will just forget about it.

business-man-hiding-under-desk-pop_11889.jpg
 

Gurra

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A lot of referal to real courts and laws late in this thread, that has no relation to this. Doesnt matter at all if its RCE. There is an EULA for every game and MA can ban/punish as they wish (they cant charge an IRL fine but thats not the most common suggestion).

They certainly dont need to provide any court level evidence on their decision either. Doesnt matter if braking the rule was by intent or not (that doesnt apply IRL either even though i might wish so for my speeding tickets).

All seems as a very bad decision by MA and certainly not in par with the decision on DannyO
 

chesta

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Atleast the obvious accounts can be locked during Investigation.

And Investigation can take quite long. Has happened before...

Stil cant believe that was the official reply
 

Joat

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A lot of referal to real courts and laws late in this thread, that has no relation to this. Doesnt matter at all if its RCE. There is an EULA for every game and MA can ban/punish as they wish (they cant charge an IRL fine but thats not the most common suggestion).

They certainly dont need to provide any court level evidence on their decision either. Doesnt matter if braking the rule was by intent or not (that doesnt apply IRL either even though i might wish so for my speeding tickets).

All seems as a very bad decision by MA and certainly not in par with the decision on DannyO

Since EU have a RCE system that is enough to take them to court since themselfs say
there is a RL value. With RL values involved, consumer rights gets up a level or two.
First step actions are ingame, but if they ban a player that is innocent and who knows
how to navigate and use the system MA can get some problems.
If I mention courts and so on is due to I see next step that might be taken if MA do
something wrong at a innocent player. From my own personal p.o.v I highly doubt
anyone who used the yog is innocent though, but what we individuals who are bystanders
think of it means shit in this mess.
As I mentioned earlier, in general, taking a company to court and they get convicted isn't
always what a company fear most (I'll give you a hint: temporärt näringsförbud).
So it isn't the goal that scares but the ride. :silly2:
 

Evey

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[h=3]Yog Pet Buff Issue[/h]

We will be conducting this investigation over the next few weeks

I don't understand why it takes few week, when the initial investigation took hours, is this really such a low priority for MA? It should be done in hours, max couple of days, not few weeks!
 

Joat

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I don't understand why it takes few week, when the initial investigation took hours, is this really such a low priority for MA? It should be done in hours, max couple of days, not few weeks!

12 players, possibly way more, checking chatlogs for years... good luck doing that in few hours. :D
Specially now when vacations are comming. ;)
 

Evey

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12 players, possibly way more, checking chatlogs for years... good luck doing that in few hours. :D
Specially now when vacations are comming. ;)

It is a few hours if they go all-hands-on-deck as they should in this situation especially with most of the community unhappy about their last decision.



Since EU have a RCE system that is enough to take them to court since themselfs say
there is a RL value. With RL values involved, consumer rights gets up a level or two.
First step actions are ingame, but if they ban a player that is innocent and who knows
how to navigate and use the system MA can get some problems.

Not if they just ban the player only from Mayhems, for a year or two, as they should. Maybe even prevent them from using the mayhem token trader for a year also.
 

Joat

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It is a few hours if they go all-hands-on-deck as they should in this situation especially with most of the community unhappy about their last decision.

Not if they just ban the player only from Mayhems, for a year or two, as they should. Maybe even prevent them from using the mayhem token trader for a year also.


Do think all they gonna check speak english? Are they so upfront in chat that they mention pet with "yog"?

Yeah a "soft punishment" as prevent them from joining from events is one way to go. Question is if
MA have tools for this...
 

Gurra

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Since EU have a RCE system that is enough to take them to court ...:

No, its not. This is not a a Deathifier issue and RL law and Courts will not be succesfully applied for the suitor in a case regarding ingame punishments based on abusing bugs and breaking the eula. Even if citizen A can take citizen B to court for farting on their yard (depending on country) its not a valid usecase and the successfactor for citizen A is pretty slim.

Lets just agree to disagree in this matter :)
 

Evey

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Do think all they gonna check speak english? Are they so upfront in chat that they mention pet with "yog"?
.

BS. They have to check the buffs used/active during the instances and it's easy. They did check in the past the amount of damage an avatar took during an instance


Question is if
MA have tools for this...

Absolutely they have. This is not a question any of us have to answer on the forum but one should start with the premise that MA has the tools to create any tools they need when it comes the integrity of the game, because

MindArk takes the security and integrity of Entropia Universe very seriously, and we apologize for the concerns and uncertainty that these issues have understandably caused within the community. We will make every effort to ensure that such issues are not possible in the future. Thank you for your understanding and patience.

Henrik Nel
CEO MindArk

Time to prove it, MA!
 

Joat

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No, its not. This is not a a Deathifier issue and RL law and Courts will not be succesfully applied for the suitor in a case regarding ingame punishments based on abusing bugs and breaking the eula. Even if citizen A can take citizen B to court for farting on their yard (depending on country) its not a valid usecase and the successfactor for citizen A is pretty slim.

Lets just agree to disagree in this matter :)
Well, read again what I wrote. Its when MA do something against a innocent player,
and he lose his values you can start working on a case. Ofc not if he gets to stay
but lose some values ingame, but when he gets banned and lose it all.

Since I gonna quit/stop playing as soon as I get date confirmed for the reason to do so,
I have begin to check what to do with my values ingame.
Probably gonna give most stuff away unless I can do some agreements with MA.
Just out of curiosity I have looked around what can be done if one get stucked
in solving something like this, and ofc also in other scenarios.
I know what path I should take if they had been stubborn and not interested in
solving this... :D
 

Sub-Zero

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23 pages in merely 5 days, while Mayhem is running. That should tell you MA how your actions thus far has been inadequate against these 12 players that were caught in the act, not to mention all the players who have abused this now infamous pet for years in order to cycle faster than the regular players and win previous mayhem events.

It also shows in EntropiaLife that hunting has gone down by -10.12% currently this week. Not good!

Please take some sort of action. This silence is deafening.

I refer to my thread where some possible actions has been voted in a poll by 100+ people. Those who have not voted yet, please do so.
Poll: To punish or not to punish exploiters
 

Joat

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BS. They have to check the buffs used/active during the instances and it's easy. They did check in the past the amount of damage an avatar took during an instance

Absolutely they have. This is not a question any of us have to answer on the forum but one should start with the premise that MA has the tools to create any tools they need when it comes the integrity of the game, because

Time to prove it, MA!

If using a buff is enough to take actions hadn't this been solved already then?
Lets hope they solve it asap though.

What they have is generic tool to check for levels, not specific individuals.
In theory, it should be quite easy to implement though... in theory it should
also be easy to create a pet with buffs correctly. :silly2:
 

morfoc

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Well, read again what I wrote. Its when MA do something against a innocent player,
and he lose his values you can start working on a case. Ofc not if he gets to stay
but lose some values ingame, but when he gets banned and lose it all.

Since I gonna quit/stop playing as soon as I get date confirmed for the reason to do so,
I have begin to check what to do with my values ingame.
Probably gonna give most stuff away unless I can do some agreements with MA.
Just out of curiosity I have looked around what can be done if one get stucked
in solving something like this, and ofc also in other scenarios.
I know what path I should take if they had been stubborn and not interested in
solving this... :D

hidden threats don't work , I had tried :laugh:. you can be replaced like everyone else here and your items remain the property of MA so you have nothing.
who are you protecting ? :rolleyes:
 

Joat

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hidden threats don't work , I had tried :laugh:. you can be replaced like everyone else here and your items remain the property of MA so you have nothing.
who are you protecting ? :rolleyes:

Please, stop think when you read, you fail misearbly everytime. :D
 

Evey

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If using a buff is enough to take actions hadn't this been solved already then?
Lets hope they solve it asap though.

What they have is generic tool to check for levels, not specific individuals.
In theory, it should be quite easy to implement though... in theory it should
also be easy to create a pet with buffs correctly. :silly2:

It looks like you are defending cheaters since many posts ago. You are free to do so ofc, but do not assume you know what tools MA has, because they can pretty much create any verification tool very easy, if they don't have the means of verification yet anyway. I said it before, it is only a political decision at this point and they fail us...
 

Joat

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It looks like you are protecting cheaters since many posts ago. You are free to do so ofc, but do not assume you know what tools MA has, because they can pretty much create any verification tool very easy, if they don't have the means of verification yet anyway. I said it before, it is only a political decision at this point and they fail us...

So just because I don't have the mentality of a simple witchhunter and want them to follow
some ethics around how to confirm these 12 are guilty, I try to protect them?
Brilliant thinking capacity there. :D
Must be this post that made you think like that:

Since EU have a RCE system that is enough to take them to court since themselfs say
there is a RL value. With RL values involved, consumer rights gets up a level or two.
First step actions are ingame, but if they ban a player that is innocent and who knows
how to navigate and use the system MA can get some problems.
If I mention courts and so on is due to I see next step that might be taken if MA do
something wrong at a innocent player. From my own personal p.o.v I highly doubt
anyone who used the yog is innocent though, but what we individuals who are bystanders
think of it means shit in this mess.

As I mentioned earlier, in general, taking a company to court and they get convicted isn't
always what a company fear most (I'll give you a hint: temporärt näringsförbud).
So it isn't the goal that scares but the ride. :silly2:

Or this one maybe?
Ok? :scratch2: In what way do my pictures show that I'm concerned that MA should follow
something that is called ethics in some countries?
For the 100th of times, it isn't about punishment but the procedure to prove them guilty.
Ofc should they be punished if they are found guilty of it, never been any doubts about that.


I start to wonder if you use google translate and some sentences becomes really odd, just as
your post. If you do, switch language that is to be translated, and translate back to your
language... occasionly you'll see really screwed up translations. :D

On the other hand I saw your logic about MAs profit and loot pool and I really hope
that was a joke, if not its quite clear why your logic fits cat1 in DKe.

So try get this once and for all: Its about how to figure out if they did it or not on purpose,
do it properly so it doesn't backfire (reason why I mentioned RL laws, courts and so on),
and find a suitable punishment. I don't give a f**k about those who cheat, tired of that kind
of people. Also tired of cat1 people in DKe, those seem to go hand in hand.
What I do care about is MA (or more exactly EU), and that they will shape up some levels
and start develop EU properly, all this sloppy mistakes must go, departments in MA must
be looked in to and more effective, and finally a way faster devlopment of EU.
Hopefully this will happen "soon". :silly2:
 

Xen

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<90% tt return with mostly 80% efficiency for me since I reported this on forum. Previously was over 97% over a long period.....
 

Evey

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So just because I don't have the mentality of a simple witchhunter and want them to follow
some ethics around how to confirm these 12 are guilty, I try to protect them?
Brilliant thinking capacity there. :D

You don't understand much of what's going on on this thread and I can see why, you don't do mayhems, do you, or much hunting either...
Well, we are, mayhem is at the core of the game atm, it attracts a lot of mining and crafting with it too so it's a big deal. MA's responsibility is to create a level play field so everyone has the same chance in the begining but it also needs to create a mechanism to prevent abuses, exploits, cheats etc so that such players are not allowed to prizes when people invest so many resources in the mayhem thing.
Cheaters are easy to prove by MA. Easy to punish too. There is no debate here, you don't get it and you're not willing to understand the basics it either. Even their soc m8s (some anyway) want punishment for this, that says a lot!
 

Joat

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<90% tt return with mostly 80% efficiency for me since I reported this on forum. Previously was over 97% over a long period.....

Ouch. So you get worse stuff in loot now also? (I guess you mean efficiency on weapon and attachment?)
 

Xen

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Ouch. So you get worse stuff in loot now also? (I guess you mean efficiency on weapon and attachment?)

80.8% efficiency of weapon used 90% of the time.
 

Joat

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You don't understand much of what's going on on this thread and I can see why, you don't do mayhems, do you, or much hunting either...
Well, we are, mayhem is at the core of the game atm, it attracts a lot of mining and crafting with it too so it's a big deal. MA's responsibility is to create a level play field so everyone has the same chance in the begining but it also needs to create a mechanism to prevent abuses, exploits, cheats etc so that such players are not allowed to prizes when people invest so many resources in the mayhem thing.
Cheaters are easy to prove by MA. Easy to punish too. There is no debate here, you don't get it and you're not willing to understand the basics it either. Even their soc m8s (some anyway) want punishment for this, that says a lot!

Mayhem means shit for me for years since its obvious that this isn't the only issue that have
been around that kind of event. It is, as you mention, important for others though.
I do understand exactly what happens here, a shitload of people are upset due to this shit,
and as they should be. How much have they lost due to this? Probably a lot both in value
and interest, most probably in faith in the game too.
That doesn't change the fact that MA need to handle it properly though.
Would be nice if they could do that in all aspects, since thats the root of this mess.

No I don't hunt as much as I want, due to several reason. If had been able to I probably
had, since I want a bunch of missions done. Still decent progress, even though we celebrate
midsummer here in sweden both on the friday and yesterday, I'm soon done with 2nd stage
Rhino beetle, started that mission on thursday evening.
As soon as these kind of missions are gone I'm gonna go back to "math hunting", since
that works quite well, no need for depos while doing that.
Not sure to see exact numbers though, since I doubt MA would give me those stats.
One thing I follow though, I don't spend more than I can lose. For me RL value is lost in a
depo same second it pops up as peds ingame.

Yes they should have a lot more going on to prevent cheats, exploits and so on.
One step is to step up a lot in quality of developed features. Too often it seems like
they only create code for the most basics though, not much of code to handle all "what if..."
that happens.
 
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Xen

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Dpp effects what.. ie quality loot.
Efficency should effect tt returns by 7%.

Take off your rings, loose the buffs, use an old school maxed weapon
You didnt blindly believe the system works as it should?

It did work as it should and is working as it should for others.
 
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