Yog Pet Buff Issue

Evey

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I ran last mayhems and reached some topten positions, so yog bug made me mad.
I read all pages and with difficulty I digested MA's statement, tbh a perma (at least temp) ban for future events is what I would have want to see and hope future investigations may lead to that. Lately I have seen a better approach from them and I am optimistic.

Does any of the 12 have something to say?

DRM
yes, some of the 12 report others for 'harassing' them now and calling them yog lovers. They say MA assumed responsibility and that we should get over it (providing screenshot upon request for this).
Their soc has nothing to say as too many were in this for too long and soc leader was looking for Yog during merry mayhem... what else is to say about it....?
 

Raffaele Meiers

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As a player, all you do is to maximize your efficiency. Is there somewhere in ToS that you can't get more than 30% buff? Is this something a player should know? Why is that?
I am not saying they should or could claim ignorance, but it is not my job as a player to know what the upper limit for something is and make sure I do not go over it.
Not knowing the law does not prevent you from beeing punished.
If you use bugs and the chain of evidence proves it then you get punished and even a court of law would do it without prove when there is no reasonable doubt that you did it.
 

-JJ-

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*sigh....i see yet another attempt by some1 to possibly trigger me into arguing with them by trying make out im a stupid clueless noob that has no idea whats what or missing points trying to tell me what to do etc while trying to be subtle about it, just enuff so the average person doesnt notice and some...not so much ;]

ofc while i dont know everything(no1 does) and im not always right either, however i like to think that i know quite abit more than people think, and generally smart enuff to see past some of the bs of some people, (reading between the lines so to speak, things and people are not always what they seem)

ofc i am well aware that it was unintended for the yog to have these buffs and that those that did know abused it and kept it secret for years and only shared it recently cos they knew the cat was out the bag so to speak to make them selves seem the good guys limiting damage to their own reputation, the same people seen numerous times bottling and cheating in someway in videos that can be found if u go looking, they im sure are not he only 1s who cheat and abuse bugs

and could be coincidence, but u really think i didnt notice some of the people who did respond to me so far are in socs that consider the soc im friends with their sworn enemy?

some of the intel ive gathered since playing i could write volumes on including proof that would certainly paint a very different light on perceptions of some people and societies, however... that being said i dont judge entire societies based on a few of their members actions nor am i targeting specific socs, .. im more interested in making friends and having fun than making enemies, i just wanted to let know some know im not as stupid or clueless as some think, ok i am maybe a bit strange and paranoid at times lol but im sure some of u will know pretty much what i mean. ;]

but back on point im sure mind ark are doing the best they can taking all things into consideration, their biggest error i think was underestimating the seriousness of a bug they were aware of, but perhaps didnt know how to fix it properly at that time in 2018 i think it was when they became aware of it?,
they probably thought ok its low priority we come back to it later

but ofc now its all blown up just how bad it really was and problem u have is yes, some knew exactly what they were doing but some also might not have been aware, and and trying to prove who did know is a problem not to mention these people are big spenders and contribute to the game, spending tons and tons of ped, banning them all could result in killing the game economy and these sort of people who do cheat and know it have got mind ark by the balls so to speak and think blind eyes will be turned to their actions...well at least till mind ark have no choice but to act as soon as its all in public view,

im sure mind ark would love to deal out swift and just punishment to cheating scum that abuse the game giving them headaches, but u cant possibly tell me that they dont take into consideration how this will affect the game overall and its economy if they did ban some of their best depositors

in an ideal world people would play fair and not cheat and exploit the game and others, but in reality some are just out to gain that bit more an advantage over every1 else trying to profit doing so
all we can do is report bugs as we see them and try to come up with solutions so that these kinds of things almost cant happen
also we could try and catch these people in the act with video evidence and submit it to mind ark 1st and give them a chance at least to fix it b4 going on witch hunts and fighting on forums with petty drama .

speaking of drama i just wanted to make it clear that its not my intention to bring it into the forum or argue with people, my intent was to simply share my thoughts and possible solutions that may or may not work the only reason i even mentioned the other stuff was just a small demonstration that im not some stupid clueless noob that knows nothing lol some of u probably think well if u have soo much intel and evidence why not practice what u preach and and prove it?. well i could but i wouldnt do it publicly unless i really had to and i think those smart enuff would realize who dropped the nuke that got them banned lol either way id end up being public enemy number 1 and only add to the current crap mind ark already has to deal with, that and i dont want to kill the game i enjoy playing.. lots of this stuff is in the past anyway and most of it i wasnt even around when it happened, i still have mountains of evidence some of which has been difficult to verify that it hasnt been edited or tampered with or done in such a way to make it look like something else ..

so as far as im concerned those are footnotes for now, just observations of the past.. its whats going on now il turn my focus to and sorry but if i catch u cheating or botting friend or no the video report will find its way to mind ark for them to decide what to do with u i despise cheaters and botters they ruin games in my opinion

some naturally will think what they like and continue to judge and try and insult others on here trying to insult their intelligence and more importantly try to shut that person up cos perhaps there just might be abit of truth to what that person is saying than they want to believe or admit, every1 is entitled to their opinion and freedom of speech i have not targeted or insulted any1, yet some chose to attempt to come after me? at least i try to help and speak my mind.. or am i to join the club and get my pitchfork and torch and maybe bring some gasoline for good measure lol? looking at some other posts it seems to be a common trend to bitch and whine and attack each other rather than actually say anything useful
anyways to those that may have been attempting to trigger/bait me well done..but this is about all ur gonna get im afraid.. i am choosing to rise above such petty bitchiness, and any that try to further have a go at me will just be ignored those actually interested in being constructive im happy to hear and talk to

apologies for the long read i wanted to speak my mind and it does seem a good bit more than what it seemed in my head lol

anyways have fun guys n enjoy the game and stop fecking cheating and bitching at each other plz lol

JJ ;]
 

Hego Damask

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As a player, all you do is to maximize your efficiency. Is there somewhere in ToS that you can't get more than 30% buff? Is this something a player should know? Why is that?
When you go in for a competetive mayhem run, you will know the reload buff is capped at 30%, because its written at the buff icon.
When you do competetive, you will see this, like im too noticed it is capped when i did the preparations for my run and was about to buy the pills i need for the reload buff.
So yes, mayhem exploit abusers was know its capped and shouldnt be higher than 30%.


About the rest of what you said, no, exploits are never like "it shouldnt have exist" or "they should have patch it".
Most of them know what he doing and it was exploit.

But i understand they cant tell 100% sure about everybody if he was exploiting or not, so they let them go this time.
 
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morfoc

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As a player, all you do is to maximize your efficiency. Is there somewhere in ToS that you can't get more than 30% buff? Is this something a player should know? Why is that?
I am not saying they should or could claim ignorance, but it is not my job as a player to know what the upper limit for something is and make sure I do not go over it.

You can't have it "we provide the game as is" and "you can't gain buff above x% even if you can, using items available in game".

Further more, the bug was reported by lots of people. If MA considered it to be a bug, they should have fixed it. If they lost the track of it, is not a player problem. Is MA problem. If MA did nothing with respect to the bug, players can assume it is a normal game feature.
it sounds like a response from someone who has something to blame.
we're talking about being smart in this game but when it comes to cheating it's just not very smart people who haven't seen :dunce:
 

Raffaele Meiers

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lots of stuff not for this thread...

but ofc now its all blown up just how bad it really was and problem u have is yes, some knew exactly what they were doing but some also might not have been aware, and and trying to prove who did know is a problem not to mention these people are big spenders and contribute to the game, spending tons and tons of ped, banning them all could result in killing the game economy and these sort of people who do cheat and know it have got mind ark by the balls so to speak and think blind eyes will be turned to their actions...well at least till mind ark have no choice but to act as soon as its all in public view,

im sure mind ark would love to deal out swift and just punishment to cheating scum that abuse the game giving them headaches, but u cant possibly tell me that they dont take into consideration how this will affect the game overall and its economy if they did ban some of their best depositors

cut to not fill space with your sermon

JJ ;]
So you are sending threats to Mindark what will happen if they stick to their rules and bann cheaters?

Do you really think this cheaters are big depositers or are'nt they the ones who constantly withdraw their profits from selling their unlawfully gained big ticket items?
If you deposit every week 100$ and wihtdraw 10000$ after selling the big items you gained while abusing a bug you are maybe a big depositer but overall you extract unlawfully money out of it and MA would be better of without them.
 

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Not knowing the law does not prevent you from beeing punished.
If you use bugs and the chain of evidence proves it then you get punished and even a court of law would do it without prove when there is no reasonable doubt that you did it.
The law is not as simple as that. The law is that there has to be some quality control for a service you provide. As a customer you have some rights. In EULA is said that the game is provided "as is". The player played it "as is". You can't just enforce arbitrary rules and not face some backlash. Sometimes the backlash may be worth paying for... but it will be there, even if it is cheap.

Another thing. You complain about what MA should do to another player. Remember that your relation is with MA and not another player. It is none of your business how they deal with other parties. It may even be unfair. You do play the game as is. There is no collective bargaining or anything like that. All you can ask is that they provide you the service you pay for. What they do for other people, is none of your business. You may want it to be, but it really is not.
 

-JJ-

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So you are sending threats to Mindark what will happen if they stick to their rules and bann cheaters?

Do you really think this cheaters are big depositers or are'nt they the ones who constantly withdraw their profits from selling their unlawfully gained big ticket items?
If you deposit every week 100$ and wihtdraw 10000$ after selling the big items you gained while abusing a bug you are maybe a big depositer but overall you extract unlawfully money out of it and MA would be better of without them.
1stly while i get u wanted to shorten my er...sermon as u put it lol why did u edit it in such a way that made it look like i said things i didnt say?? and claiming im threatening mind ark??? can u point out where i actually did this?? lol
 

Raffaele Meiers

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....
Another thing. You complain about what MA should do to another player. Remember that your relation is with MA and not another player. It is none of your business how they deal with other parties. It may even be unfair. You do play the game as is. There is no collective bargaining or anything like that. All you can ask is that they provide you the service you pay for. What they do for other people, is none of your business. You may want it to be, but it really is not.
Where did I say they should be punished like this or that in any of my post? Are you like DT to make up arguments to blame someone with things he did not do?

As you are also 15 years in EU it seams you have really high stakes in this as you start to bring out fake news about people who point out where you are wrong.

At the same time you try to play the stupid one:

As a player, all you do is to maximize your efficiency. Is there somewhere in ToS that you can't get more than 30% buff? Is this something a player should know?
....
15 Years in PE/EU and you do not know such simple facts? So this shows how good you know this game after 15 years or is this another try to play the innocent person who knows nothing about anything while at the same time plays the know it all and better than anyone else.

Even a player in his first year in EU knows this:
When you go in for a competetive mayhem run, you will know the reload buff is capped at 30%, because its written at the buff icon.
When you do competetive, you will see this, like im too noticed it is capped when i did the preparations for my run and was about to buy the pills i need for the reload buff.
So yes, mayhem exploit abusers was know its capped and shouldnt be higher than 30%.


About the rest of what you said, no, exploits are never like "it shouldnt have exist" or "they should have patch it".
Most of them know what he doing and it was exploit.

But i understand they cant tell 100% sure about everybody if he was exploiting or not, so they let them go this time.

Again If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
 

mspatterson

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When you go in for a competetive mayhem run, you will know the reload buff is capped at 30%, because its written at the buff icon.
When you do competetive, you will see this, like im too noticed it is capped when i did the preparations for my run and was about to buy the pills i need for the reload buff.
So yes, mayhem exploit abusers was know its capped and shouldnt be higher than 30%.


About the rest of what you said, no, exploits are never like "it shouldnt have exist" or "they should have patch it".
Most of them know what he doing and it was exploit.

But i understand they cant tell 100% sure about everybody if he was exploiting or not, so they let them go this time.
In they're defence.. who the hell stares at theyre buffs all day? If you got a 12% reload ring and a pet that says it gives 10% reload you know what you got.. If behind the scenes a pet is giving you much more well over the cap its hardly easily noticeable unless your making out with your buffs all day checkin them out! And even then can you really trust what they say? Item and buff descriptions are well know to be just misspelled text descriptions 90% of the time of meaningless data MA decided to write there
 

Raffaele Meiers

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1stly while i get u wanted to shorten my er...sermon as u put it lol why did u edit it in such a way that made it look like i said things i didnt say?? and claiming im threatening mind ark??? can u point out where i actually did this?? lol
Only look at the bold text in the message I quoted from you. You telling MA that if they ban the cheaters it will have economic consequences and that they have MA by their balls - is this not threatening?
If I say someone it will have economic consequences if you proceed like that and that I have you at your balls seams to me not a common statement in a normal conversation.

But here again for you:

banning them all could result in killing the game economy and these sort of people who do cheat and know it have got mind ark by the balls so to speak
...

im sure mind ark would love to deal out swift and just punishment to cheating scum that abuse the game giving them headaches, but u cant possibly tell me that they dont take into consideration how this will affect the game overall and its economy if they did ban some of their best depositors
 

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ToS tend not to hold up in court as you may think they will. Remember Runescape trials? If you lose money in a game because of some unfair system or some arbitrary rule, you can sue, whatever the ToS may say. You can claim you were wronged and a good lawyer can make a case out of it.
In games where property is not as clearly defined as having real value, the damaged party still got compensated. For example, check out this.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/teen-steals-virtual-items-gets-real-punishment/
This story is completely irrelevant to what's going on here, not really sure why you would post something like this. The story itself is from 2012, must've taken some time to dig it up.

This is a story about crime and punishment, if what you're trying to say is that thieves should be punished, yeah, everyone will support that, but that's not what you're trying to say here, is it?

What you're saying is that MA cannot punish exploiters because they can sue. There's a chance this may be the case, but I think not, because at the end of the day anyone can file a lawsuit about anything, but they may not even get a court hearing. Remember, you click "I agree" everytime you login, after that MA is not liable for anything. Whatever reason MA has not to punish those who knowingly used this bug, I think it's highly unlikely to be this, their ToS are bulletproof in court, but not in the game itself :smoke:
 

Raffaele Meiers

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In they're defence.. who the hell stares at theyre buffs all day? If you got a 12% reload ring and a pet that says it gives 10% reload you know what you got.. If behind the scenes a pet is giving you much more well over the cap its hardly easily noticeable unless your making out with your buffs all day checkin them out! And even then can you really trust what they say? Item and buff descriptions are well know to be just misspelled text descriptions 90% of the time of meaningless data MA decided to write there
Aha a pet that should give 10% extraction speed gives 25% reload speed and that is how it should work?
People who competed for prices in Mayhem knew about all the limits whats good and whats bad for their kill rate and where to see how much % their setup speeded up reload but cheaters used this pet to have 10% or 25% more reload speed.
 
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mspatterson

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This story is completely irrelevant to what's going on here, not really sure why you would post something like this. The story itself is from 2012, must've taken some time to dig it up.

This is a story about crime and punishment, if what you're trying to say is that thieves should be punished, yeah, everyone will support that, but that's not what you're trying to say here, is it?

What you're saying is that MA cannot punish exploiters because they can sue. There's a chance this may be the case, but I think not, because at the end of the day anyone can file a lawsuit about anything, but they may not even get a court hearing. Remember, you click "I agree" everytime you login, after that MA is not liable for anything. Whatever reason MA has not to punish those who knowingly used this bug, I think it's highly unlikely to be this, their ToS are bulletproof in court, but not in the game itself :smoke:
I think the primary reason theyre not punishing them is because the problem was MA's fault. The players all they did was tame or purchase a yog, train and level it and use it as intended. Noone expects them to stand around in camp Icarus leveling the pet instead of hunting with it for experience so its damn near impossible NOT to use it and gain the benefits of the reload.
 

Evey

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I think the primary reason theyre not punishing them is because the problem was MA's fault. The players all they did was tame or purchase a yog, train and level it and use it as intended. Noone expects them to stand around in camp Icarus leveling the pet instead of hunting with it for experience so its damn near impossible NOT to use it and gain the benefits of the reload.
NOT after buff is unlocked. No reason to use a mining buff inside a hunting instance, lend the pet left and right for the entire duration of the mayhem. People are not that stupid. MA is not taking further action because it's a political decision, not a legal problem. Ofc they can take action, they choose not to because ... reasons... reasons that make no sense.



Edit. I'm pretty sure it would be no lawsuit over a temporary disabled feature (mayhem instances / mayhem token trader) for some that abused in some ways. Ways that are easy to prove intention, looking at chat logs, trade logs etc.
 
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mspatterson

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NOT after buff is unlocked. No reason to use a mining buff inside a hunting instance, lend the pet left and right for the entire duration of the mayhem. People are not that stupid. MA is not taking further action because it's a political decision, not a legal problem. Ofc they can take action, they choose not to because ... reasons... reasons that make no sense.
Well I had a lvl36 dhampyre.. all buffs unlocked by 25 but I used to lvl it everywhere to keep going incase they added more buffs at a later date etc so there is reason to use it all the time. Im not saying they weren't aware of what was going on. Im just saying you cant enjoy the pet without benefiting from the bug which was entirely MA's fault for making it that way and again MA's fault for not lookin into the problem for YEARS after it was reported several times.
 

-JJ-

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Only look at the bold text in the message I quoted from you. You telling MA that if they ban the cheaters it will have economic consequences and that they have MA by their balls - is this not threatening?
If I say someone it will have economic consequences if you proceed like that and that I have you at your balls seams to me not a common statement in a normal conversation.

But here again for you:
lol you misinterpreted what i wrote .. i did not threaten mind ark in anyway

what i meant was as an example lets pretend that you are mind ark

in your investigation you find out that a very large number of regular big depositors all cheated and used this exploit what would you do? when the public is demanding justice and want them banned

option 1 ban them all
option 2 some alternative punishment

each would have their own consequences

if u went with option 1 ban them all then u would have to pay the tt value of their account and delete their avatar

this also means no more income from those people that u just banned
and could hurt the game and its economy overall

and if that is the case those people who are the big depositors know this and think they can get away with cheating thinking mind ark wont punish them harshly that is what i meant by them having mind ark by the balls so to speak
 

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The only thing is, only 12 people are smirking right now.
 

mspatterson

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lol you misinterpreted what i wrote .. i did not threaten mind ark in anyway

what i meant was as an example lets pretend that you are mind ark

in your investigation you find out that a very large number of regular big depositors all cheated and used this exploit what would you do? when the public is demanding justice and want them banned

option 1 ban them all
option 2 some alternative punishment

each would have their own consequences

if u went with option 1 ban them all then u would have to pay the tt value of their account and delete their avatar

this also means no more income from those people that u just banned
and could hurt the game and its economy overall

and if that is the case those people who are the big depositors know this and think they can get away with cheating thinking mind ark wont punish them harshly that is what i meant by them having mind ark by the balls so to speak
Hurting the economy is no small thing either.. OK so they go ahead and ban them and then suddenly you can shave off 5%MU off all your loots for the next 6mo to a year.. that make u happy?

That's the kind of thing MA has to make decisions on here.

Id like to add I don't even know who was using the YOG lol so maybe 5% too much an effect for those people but you get the idea :)
 

-JJ-

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i have been actually trying to make my own game and the biggest headaches is not only trying to make sure it all works well but trying to think ahead any possible ways people could cheat or exploit and how would i be able to detect it the only solution i could come up with with was multilayered monitoring that would monitor every single movement and action a a player took and that data analyzed by an advanced ai program to determine not normal human play / behavior and flag it for human attention so i would have to hire a team to check that data if anything seems not normal

so glad im not mind ark its alot of work and headaches lol
 

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The last sentence from you is this a threat to MA you are sending here what will happen if they proceed with this case of cheating MA and theire customers and not letting the bug abusers continue unharmed or is it only that I do not understand what you wanted to say whit it?


Even in court you not always have the smoking gun but you can have a "chain of circumstantial evidence" which leads to the conviction of the guilty part.

And here I think it would go like this:

If he is mining does he uses the pet while mining, if not when does he use the pet, while on Events and doing shard mobs like Sand King or Hussk?
Does he use the pet when doing events or hunting shared mobs like Sand King or Hussk while using other buffs to have more than the maximum 30% reload increase?
Does he rent or lend the pet to friends who then use it on shared mobs or events like he does and not while mining?
ETC.

In the end you have the chain of evidences which gives enough certainity, as it would in a court, to convict him or here.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
You didn't understand last sentence which is fully understandable if you haven't played PE/EU that long.

What happened was that MA judged everyone from Romania as something bad so they locked out
everyone from Romania, no matter if they actually were shit or good people.
Today, with harder laws, MA could end up in deep shit if they did that again.
Did they use facts or assumptions? Go figure....
 

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in those 2 years, these exploiters didnt waste peds on buying 10mg to hunt at near maximum reload..
exploiter #1 - "10% reload from pet + (L) helmet 5% + 8% imp ares ( 600 ped ) = 23% reload"
exploiter #2 - "25% pet reload + 8% imp ares= 33%"
legit player - "14% reload (11000 ped perfected ares, back in 2018) + 10 mg ( costing 5-6 ped)= 25% reload..
over the course of 1.5 yrs for the sake of argument...

IN 547 DAYS OF SCUMBAGS EXPLOITING THIS BUFF, LETS SAY ONLY PLAYED 5 HOURS A DAY..

LEGIT PLAYER LIKE MYSELF SPENT 11000 PED ON RING. 547 DAYS X (5X5) 13675 PEDS SPENT ON HYPER 10 PILLS.
COSTING ME 24675 PED ( LOSING 6000 PED FROM RINGS VALUE DROPPING THANKS TO THIS BUFF, MAKING MY RING LESS IN DEMAND )

EACH ONE OF THESE PLAYERS SAVED OVER 14K PEDS JUST FROM REGULAR HUNTING, NOT INCLUDING THE DAMAGE THEY DID CHEATING PEOPLE OUT OF EVENT PLACEMENTS.

HOW ARE YOU GONNA BALANCE THIS OUT MINDARK??

I REALLY THINK THESE PLAYERS HAVE TO PAY FOR BUFF THEY USED.. CHARGE THEM 20 PED AN HOUR FOR ALL THE HOURS THEY HAD THIS PET OUT WITH BUFF.. OR MAKE IT EASY ON YOURSELF AND BAN THEM. I WOULDNT MISS ANY OF THESE JOKERS.
 

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How would you claim back a lottery price won 2 years ago if the guy already spent the money? :scratch2:

The thing here is that MA supposedly knew about the issue but didn't do anything. They are the main ones to blame. The cheaters saw an opportunity and toked it because MA did nothing!!! Both MA support and the cheaters have "blood" in their hands.

And this was not only about Mayhem events. Shared loot also. While some paid for pills and rings others just used the Yog. No wonder the price of it was already on 14K PED. Rofl And now I ask. No one at MA find it strange that this kind of mob was selling for so much? uhmmm strange.

...
enjoy some peaceful sweating for a few weeks :smoke:
I have to agree, sweat to let the rage come out!
 

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Oct 3, 2019
Posts
212
Well I had a lvl36 dhampyre.. all buffs unlocked by 25 but I used to lvl it everywhere to keep going incase they added more buffs at a later date etc so there is reason to use it all the time. Im not saying they weren't aware of what was going on. Im just saying you cant enjoy the pet without benefiting from the bug which was entirely MA's fault for making it that way and again MA's fault for not lookin into the problem for YEARS after it was reported several times.
so you took your pet into the instance to level it. for that it doesnt need to have its buff active. did you activate its buff in the hunting instance?
 

Geo

Prowler
Joined
Jun 2, 2005
Posts
1,015
Location
Space
Society
Victory
Avatar Name
George Geo Clone
People saying “punishing the exploiters could backfire” have no idea what they are talking about.
MA can do whatever they like to whom ever they want. They own this universe.
Just ask Dethifier.

But for the sake of the community and trust, they need to take further action against these cheaters.
 

mastermesh

Mutated
Joined
Apr 21, 2007
Posts
15,373
Location
Billy Bar
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the Ministry
Avatar Name
Maria Mesh
Well I had a lvl36 dhampyre.. all buffs unlocked by 25 but I used to lvl it everywhere to keep going incase they added more buffs at a later date etc so there is reason to use it all the time. Im not saying they weren't aware of what was going on. Im just saying you cant enjoy the pet without benefiting from the bug which was entirely MA's fault for making it that way and again MA's fault for not lookin into the problem for YEARS after it was reported several times.
exactly... leveling up pets takes time... and it makes boring activities like hunting more interesting since you have other buttons to click while between mobs or while on autotool with your weapon, etc. Some people even spawn pets in space... kind of glitchy seeing a oratan floating along outside of a ship but it happens.
 

BBpunisher

Stalker
Joined
May 23, 2010
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2,019
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OR, USA
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BB BB Punisher
No depo from me two Fridays in a row.
 
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