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Centech

Centech

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Jason Centech Tanner
I'm sure you will all be quite surprised... Centech is mad about something again.

Well, yes, I am. MindArk has now introduced snus (smokeless tobacco) as a lootable item in game. (see here : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/selling/124366-new-item-kolonel-kalypso.html).

I think this is a very bad idea, for several reasons.

First of all. Tobacco products kill. Plain an simple. I will not argue this point, if you still attempt to disagree with this assertion in the year 2008 with all the medical research that backs it.. you are deluded.

Second, it can run MA and EU afoul of assorted laws around the world which is frankly trouble they don't need in a game that is pretty much an unregulated casino operating through loopholes and oversight. (Why do you think PEDs were taken out of loot people?!?!).

At least Canada has a law on the books banning advertising of tobacco products in video games. I'm quite sure other countries do as well, I'm still researching the matter. In China all tobacco advertising is banned in many places and they are working on legislation to ban it all. In the US there are no tobacco ads allowed on television and laws are being pushed to ban them from movies. It's not something mindark needs to get into trouble over.

Third, well.. it's just in bad taste. Its 2008, everyone knows that tobacco SUCKS. Smoking or chewing is disgusting. It's expensive.. It's addictive, oh, and top of all that it kills you! Wow, awesome! WTF do we need to promote or even allude to it in game?
 
Centech said:
In short, yes.

I'm not going to think, 'hey using a laser gun to kill dinosaurs is cool I'll go do it in real life'.

On the other hand, I could think 'hey if snus is cool in game maybe its cool in real life.. let me go try some'. Oops I got cancer and lung disease and died.

PS - Sorry to kind of hijack this thread. I plan to start a seperate one.
Click to expand...

of course you're not, but using sniper rifles to kill people and take their possesions is also possible, and aviable for all ages in entropia.
Plastic surgery of all kinds is also aviable to minors and adults alike. I presume it's illegal for minors to have cosmetic plastic surgery in the US? What about tattoos?
I don't see how depicting a tobacco product could make the game illegal in any country. The countless games of all genres that have smoking characters is illegal for minors in the US?

It may very well be of course, but it's hard for me as a swede to understand as here we have guidelines to help parents decide what may or may not be suitable for their children to play. Games that contain a lot of violence, alcohol, drug and tobacco abuse like the GTA series have a parental advisory label and a list of things that they may not want their children to see. But it is in no way illegal for minors to play the game here so
Centech said:
I think your game just became illegal for minors in the US.
Click to expand...
sounds absolutely ludicrous to me.
And an unusable "snusdosa" which no one could possibly figure out what it is without already having pretty extensive knowledge about tobacco products?
 
I'd have to agree with centech here. I haven't had a chance to get in game since the vu, but if there is lootable snus??? wtf?? MA??:scratch2:
 
Another thought I had... is it really advertisement? What company's tobacco products are being advertised? Pretending something doesn't exist doesn't exactly make it go away you know.
 
Nexuiz said:
I'd have to agree with centech here. I haven't had a chance to get in game since the vu, but if there is lootable snus??? wtf?? MA??:scratch2:
Click to expand...

weren't you the one that kept asking "When the shipment of beer will arrive"? so have some snus while waiting :wtg:
 
yeah ewwww tobacco bad!!! gimme a street sweeper to play with! :yay:
 
But how cool would you look with a cigar :cowboy:
 
OMG!!!:eek: I agree with Centech!!!! I don't agree with tobacco products being in a game. Fair enough more adults that normal play this game, but there are still kids too...

Tobacco advertising is also banned in the UK - fair enough this isnt really advertising it, but it does put it in a good light - the comment is something like the substance has mythical properties....
 
can someone please tell me where on the description of the item is says it's filled with a tobacco product?

I'd prefer to think it was filled with something a bit more dangerous.. like altoids... or cocaine...
 
Joser said:
To each his own I guess. Tobacco kills, true, and guns do what now?:scratch2:
Click to expand...

Joser, if you can grab your RL laser gun and go kill a RL killer robot, more power to you. I for one can not.

On the other hand, I could go to the store and buy some smokeless tobacco.

The concept that violence in video games leads to violence irl has been refuted many times.

The concept that product placement in entertainment leads to consumers has been proven many times.. that's why advertising is a big industry.

As for 'is it really advertising'? Well, not for a specific brand, but it is promotion none the less.
 
If that is really what that item is... then I have to agree with Centech...From the looks and the description of the new item... I don't see where it mentions the word "snus" or indicates that it IS a tabacco... looks like a container to me... Being a non smoker... I would not have made that association looking at the pic provided...
 
Lets ban bottles of champange too!

Look at all the people alcohol kills every year. :rolleyes:
 
Centech said:
Joser, if you can grab your RL laser gun and go kill a RL killer robot, more power to you. I for one can not.

On the other hand, I could go to the store and buy some smokeless tobacco.

The concept that violence in video games leads to violence irl has been refuted many times.

The concept that product placement in entertainment leads to consumers has been proven many times.. that's why advertising is a big industry.

As for 'is it really advertising'? Well, not for a specific brand, but it is promotion none the less.
Click to expand...


You could grab any modern day type gun (BLP like) and kill someone and rob them as well.

all I am saying is lets not be picky and choosey here whether this is a resemblance of a tobaccoo product or not... If we are against harmful things, then this whole game/universe needs a hard looking at.
 
If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck.

No, it doesn't say its snus per se, but pretty much everyone from a country where snus is popular that has looked at the item has said 'oh its a snus tin!'.
 
what does kill more, weapons or tobacco?
 
Bloody mods meddling:

I moved this reply:

mjukis said:
of course you're not, but using sniper rifles to kill people and take their possesions is also possible, and aviable for all ages in entropia.
Plastic surgery of all kinds is also aviable to minors and adults alike. I presume it's illegal for minors to have cosmetic plastic surgery in the US? What about tattoos?
I don't see how depicting a tobacco product could make the game illegal in any country. The countless games of all genres that have smoking characters is illegal for minors in the US?

It may very well be of course, but it's hard for me as a swede to understand as here we have guidelines to help parents decide what may or may not be suitable for their children to play. Games that contain a lot of violence, alcohol, drug and tobacco abuse like the GTA series have a parental advisory label and a list of things that they may not want their children to see. But it is in no way illegal for minors to play the game here so

sounds absolutely ludicrous to me.
And an unusable "snusdosa" which no one could possibly figure out what it is without already having pretty extensive knowledge about tobacco products?
Click to expand...

...from the selling thread to this discussion thread, to keep the discussion here.
 
Centech said:
I'm sure you will all be quite surprised... Centech is mad about something again.

Well, yes, I am. MindArk has now introduced snus (smokeless tobacco) as a lootable item in game. (see here : https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/selling/124366-new-item-kolonel-kalypso.html).

I think this is a very bad idea, for several reasons.

First of all. Tobacco products kill. Plain an simple. I will not argue this point, if you still attempt to disagree with this assertion in the year 2008 with all the medical research that backs it.. you are deluded.

Second, it can run MA and EU afoul of assorted laws around the world which is frankly trouble they don't need in a game that is pretty much an unregulated casino operating through loopholes and oversight. (Why do you think PEDs were taken out of loot people?!?!).

At least Canada has a law on the books banning advertising of tobacco products in video games. I'm quite sure other countries do as well, I'm still researching the matter. In China all tobacco advertising is banned in many places and they are working on legislation to ban it all. In the US there are no tobacco ads allowed on television and laws are being pushed to ban them from movies. It's not something mindark needs to get into trouble over.

Third, well.. it's just in bad taste. Its 2008, everyone knows that tobacco SUCKS. Smoking or chewing is disgusting. It's expensive.. It's addictive, oh, and top of all that it kills you! Wow, awesome! WTF do we need to promote or even allude to it in game?
Click to expand...



Respect.

...cof....cof...cooof..
 
because no other game has drugs, tobacco, etc? :rolleyes:
 
I agree that this tobacco thing is totally rubbish and has to go.

Ok, guns kill, too, but there's a lot of difference between running around and shooting others or smoking. Despite all the RL bad news about killing eachother the access to guns and using them can't be compared to the access to tobacco and using them. I'm not going into details here.

Regarding alcohol it's about the same thing. I also make fun of the missing deliveries and why we still don't have it. But knowing that we don't need to eat or drink makes those deliveries useless and makes me believe that they will never happen. And yes, I'd also be against offering alcohol in-game (to use, by ads or whatever).
 
langsuyar said:
what does kill more, weapons or tobacco?
Click to expand...


"A spokesman for Altria Group Inc., the parent company of cigarette giant Philip Morris USA, declined to comment on Seffrin's remarks.

With 1.3 billion smokers around the globe, and Europe, the former Soviet Union and Asia reporting the highest smoking rates, Seffrin said tobacco is on its way to becoming the world's biggest cause of preventable death by 2030. " Stanford Report, May 21, 2008

FACT in US:

Smoking causes approximately 430,000 deaths a year.

Compared to:

CAUSES OF DEATH
Alcohol-induced deaths 19,086
Assault (homicide) 16,831
Drug-induced deaths 18,443
Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) disease 14,681
Injury by firearms 28,839
Motor Vehicle Accidents 46,378

Taken from US CDC, 2004 statistics.

That's darn scary.
 
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It doesn't bother me in the slightest, but it seems like a pointless and foolish thing for MA to do.

Without it in game nobody gave tobacco a second thought, now we have a thread like this and who knows what else.
 
the biggest cause of death is being born....
gahhh this has caused me to need a drink and a smoke before i die...
 
Centech said:
Joser, if you can grab your RL laser gun and go kill a RL killer robot, more power to you. I for one can not.
Click to expand...

No, but you can grab a BLP gun in RL and all the world is a PvP zone.

Centech said:
On the other hand, I could go to the store and buy some smokeless tobacco.
Click to expand...

You sure can... if you're of age.

Centech said:
The concept that violence in video games leads to violence irl has been refuted many times.

The concept that product placement in entertainment leads to consumers has been proven many times.. that's why advertising is a big industry.
Click to expand...

You're comparing two separate things there. Product placement is the placement of what? (altogether now) specific products. It's advertising specific brands just by showing that brand and brand name.

If I understand correctly, what you're saying is, seeing a guy kill another guy in a video game has no effect on me IRL. Seeing a guy smoke a cigarette in a video game WILL have an effect on me IRL. Does that really make sense to you?

Centech said:
As for 'is it really advertising'? Well, not for a specific brand, but it is promotion none the less.
Click to expand...

Not so much.
 
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. A firearm is just a tool.

On topic however, I can see where Centech is coming from on this but to be honest an image is just that. We are all rational people who can form any opinion about anything we see. Centech has chosen to see the item as a chew can but that is his own opinion of what the item is, its similar to an ink blot test. But then again Centech might try to force us to see what he see's on the paper as well.
 
Ah, slither gets it!

It just isn't a good road for MA to go down, regardless of how you actually feel about tobacco. I am personally opposed on moral grounds, but I think a very compelling financial and risk management argument could be made against it in game as well.
 
good or bad, you have to be over 18+ to play this game (unless you are allowed by your parents).

i dont see how this is worse than having the bars ingame. you cant use the snus and you cant drink the (lack of) beer.
what about games where you drink mana? its not hard to find something to drink that will give you magical powers (read: subjective) in real life!

drugs are bad, guns are bad, killing is bad, gambling is bad, but overprotection can also be bad. at the end of the day its your responsibility, no one elses.
if seeing a virtual can of snus in game gets you in trouble it would probably be the least of your concerns.

and no i dont use snus :rolleyes:

i can see both sides but the more you try to stop it the more people want to try it. atleast that is how i see it.
 
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