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TT value garantee - how strong is it?

Buck Buck Stone

Buck Buck Stone

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Buck Buck Stone
Hey

I have no clue about Swedish laws, thats why im asking here:

Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, my tt-peds and items are not real a MA liability...

Who can clear this up?

Ty,

Buck.
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Hey

I have no clue about Swedish laws, thats why im asking here:

Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, tt is not real a liability...

Who can clear this up?

Ty,

Buck.
Click to expand...
Hi Buck.

If MA goes bankrupt, you have no guaranty to get your tt value peds.
 
if you act now I'll gurantee tt (value on uber items) :) bump. . .
 
I could have sworn I read something about Ma guranteeing the tt value of items. (don't have source.)

But in reality that gurantee is only as good as the company in question. If Ma goes bankrupt then I would seriously doubt that that gurantee would hold.

However the tt value of items in games is probably only a small % of the economy. (Even the high tt ul items have more markup then the tt value.)
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Pls, serious question, serious answers, serious discussions ;)

Buck.
Click to expand...

If the question is,

"If MA go belly up, do i get my money?"

then the anwser is no by the looks of their balance sheets. It seems deposits and TT value go toward assets which will be ceased if they go bankrupt.

This is just an observation on the facts available. Since this is very diffrent, as people have money tied up in a very unconventional way, its really very very hard to say. Youd probably need a swedish bankrupcy lawyer with very good insight and knowledge of EU and MA. An anwser provided by anyone else you really shouldnt pay too much attention to since this is a very complex question.
 
A-Bomb said:
If the question is,

"If MA go belly up, do i get my money?"

then the anwser is no by the looks of their balance sheets. It seems deposits and TT value go toward assets which will be ceased if they go bankrupt.

This is just an observation on the facts available. Since this is very diffrent, as people have money tied up in a very unconventional way, its really very very hard to say. Youd probably need a swedish bankrupcy lawyer with very good insight and knowledge of EU and MA. An anwser provided by anyone else you really shouldnt pay too much attention to since this is a very complex question.
Click to expand...
Agree...

However, if MA goes bankrupt while EU is still running and having plenty of participants, it's very likely that another company takes over and continues MAs original tt value guaranty or most of it.

But if the question is: Can we be absolutely 100% sure to get our tt value?
Then the answer is no.
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Hey

I have no clue about Swedish laws, thats why im asking here:

Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, my tt-peds and items are not real a MA liability...

Who can clear this up?

Ty,

Buck.
Click to expand...

Marco did post somewhere in this forum , some along the line " MA have the TT value in money , and will pay first the TT to all player if som problem happen"...

Now , take it for what it is , a PR guy comment on an unofficial forum...
 
There are no guarantees on anything in life.... if it happened in England, then your tt value of items would be put into owed monies, you become a creditor..... after the receivers etc have taken there cut, you might get 100% 75% 50% of the tt value.

Lifes a shit , but Ma is no diffrent to any company you invest in.

You pays your money, you takes your chances!

The only thing i would say, is that all the right noises are coming out of MA, so don't be to concerned. You get a vibe for a well run company, and MA appears to be well run.
 
DannyO said:
The only thing i would say, is that all the right noises are coming out of MA, so don't be to concerned. You get a vibe for a well run company, and MA appears to be well run.
Click to expand...

This is something few mention, but its not less true because of that. If you take a step back and observe MA as a company, and not as the devil of loot, you see a healthy company. So what DannyO just said is something thats very true and very overlooked.
 
Vedder said:
Hi Buck.

If MA goes bankrupt, you have no guaranty to get your tt value peds.
Click to expand...

With todays financial crisis the line of busenis that is still going really well is the gaming world =)
 
But i think Entropia/MA infact has a true banking license and players
total TT value could perhaps be covered by the swedich bank deposit insurance.
 
You may wish to read through that huge EULA text that you press "I accept" to every time you login.

In particular section 13 "MINDARK'S LIMITATION OF LIABILITY"

Copy and paste doesn't work so I'll just type the relevant bit:

"MINDARK'S LIABILITY TOWARDS ANY PARTICIPANT SHALL, IF ACKNOWLEDGED, IN EACH INCIDENCE BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN THE INITIAL AMOUNT TRANSFERRED BY SAID PARTICIPANT INTO THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE"

The only mention of TT value, is purging your account if it it not used for 510 consecutive days and everything turned into PED.
 
DannyO said:
There are no guarantees on anything in life.... if it happened in England, then your tt value of items would be put into owed monies, you become a creditor..... after the receivers etc have taken there cut, you might get 100% 75% 50% of the tt value.

Lifes a shit , but Ma is no diffrent to any company you invest in.

You pays your money, you takes your chances!

The only thing i would say, is that all the right noises are coming out of MA, so don't be to concerned. You get a vibe for a well run company, and MA appears to be well run.
Click to expand...

Usually 'credit' inside many of these games guarantees you nothing. I know this from a couple of poker sites that went down a couple of years ago.

If you were able to become a 'creditor' you'd be well down in the chain. You don't actually own the PED in your account from a legal perspective. There is a legal term which defines your level of ownership of this type of credit, but I can't remember what it is.

In any case, it's a bit of a legal nightmare. If you deposited using your Credit Card, that would probably at least guarantee you become a creditor in the event of liquidation. I very much doubt you'd get anything though.

I think the only legal precidents about 'virtual credit' are the gambling sites which were closed.
 
I get the feeling "bankrupty" and what it means to people owed (or possibly owed) money means needs to be understood.

Each legal system has its own detailed definition of when a company is bankrupt. But you can broadly summerise them all as not enough cash to pay the bills and someone (could be the company itself) carries out a legal process to declare it bankrupt.

The company could do that itself because its obliged to under law or because it is part of a strategy to safeguard certain assets (probably what MA did last time around). Someone owed money would do so to lock what ever assets remained in the hope of getting some of them to cover its losses.

Now when a company goes bankrupt who gets what is left is again different under each legal system but again you can summerise them into secured debt and unsecured. Secured debt is debt which has some form of legal title - always bank loans, sometimes suppliers of goods and services.

Unsecured debt - well that would be us in this case. We have no legal title (eula) no contract with MA. This would only be different for us if MA had a legally established fund identified for this purpose. If so it would be specifically identified in the company accounts - it isn't therefore it doesn't exist. We are unsecured debtors.

Secured debtors share what assets are available - unsecured debtors get nothing unless the secured are fully paid off.

Now when companies go bankrupt it is by definition because they don't have the assets to meet their bills. Therefore any assets generally go to secured debtors only - nothing left over for unsecured ones.

I don't know whether MA will go bankrupt nor am I speculating that they will but I am confident if they do we unsecured debtors will not get a penny.
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Hey

I have no clue about Swedish laws, thats why im asking here:

Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, my tt-peds and items are not real a MA liability...

Who can clear this up?

Ty,

Buck.
Click to expand...

Very good point. MA can not guaranty you get your PEDS+TT value back in a case of bankruptcy, they're not a bank. And I personally think that one day this scenario of going bankrupt will happen and MA will not notice us when it's about to ;) So be very carefull what you invest here, when I read the full eula a few years ago I totally stopped investing in this game and am slowly selling out since...
 
bit of a Useless post but there was a mention before that all TT value of items is stored in the Ma bank account (or one of) (which I thought was shown in one of the previous accounting statements,,,, I seem to remember ppl saying why couldnt that interest get in the lootpool??? :scratch2:)

In which case all the TT value of your items should still be about as safe as any fund saved in a bank atm. I believe money in banks in most of europe is now being secured 100% by the individual governments?????(although not 100% if this applies for business')...(UK is a limit of 50k for personal accounts atm though)

Saying that, I havent looked at the recent accounts and can't be ar5ed to do any searching so all this is pure speculation XD

Rip
 
It's as strong as the company that makes that guarantee.
 
If MA goes bankrup , banks, employees and priviledged parties get their money frist.
As player claiming value for the TT value of an item (which is actually owned by MA, and never by the player >> read EULA) has no chance of get something back.

Since there has never been a case like this, and would be something juridically new, untill everyone involves even get remotely a grasp of the RCE system, there will be no money for sure to give back to the players.

But I think if the plug is pulled that the TT value will be the least of the players the worries. >> Whohoo getting 1pec for a LA deed. :yay:
 
I have the belive that if you get money into a game you should never put more in than you can afford to loose.

If MA goes banktrupt im pretty sure all your mones is gone. Even peds on your ped card.
 
Etopia said:
Marco did post somewhere in this forum , some along the line " MA have the TT value in money , and will pay first the TT to all player if som problem happen"...
Click to expand...

In the event of MA going bancrupt they are not allowed to pay out anybody. All their assets are frozen and creditors are payed according to Swedish law. Unpaid taxes and sallaries to employees have first priority, then creditors with secured loans. If any funds remain after that you might get a percentage of your TT value back.

When Marco uses the term "problem" it is more likely that he describes the situation were MA chooses to disband the company. This could happen if MA starts loosing money. Instead of continuing until all money is gone it is wise to pull out early.

In the latter scenario it is likely that MA tries to sell off the game to another company. If you are lucky this company might let you keep your avatar, items and peds.
 
I am totally convinced that the TT value is at least as secure as the money at an US bank ;)
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Hey

I have no clue about Swedish laws, thats why im asking here:

Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, my tt-peds and items are not real a MA liability...

Who can clear this up?

Ty,

Buck.
Click to expand...

I think i could say with 100% certanty that U and we all will be completly screwed. Cause even if MA would declare bancrupty with XXXXX amount of dollars in their account. First ones who will get paid is The banks Thats IF MA has any loans. Secondly other "Bussiness partners" and in the very end the players. And as we are quite a few it would be a HELL of a job 4 any lawyer 2 track all of us. So my guess is IF there would be any money left after the "IMPORTANT" ppls as banks etc is paid. That money thats left will be gone as "expenses" to the lawyer that handles the bankrupty.
So just lets HOPE this wont happen.
 
Buck Buck Stone said:
Its stated that MA garantees the tt value of items and peds. What happens if MA blows up? Is tt value still garanteed, i mean, my tt-peds and items are not real a MA liability...
Click to expand...
According to MA EULA, IMHO - no. Here just some quotes:
EULA said:
13. MINDARK'S LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

...

MINDARK SHALL, IN NO EVENT, BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DAMAGES, LOSS OR EXPENSE INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION, DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGE, OR ECONOMIC LOSS ARISING FROM THE USE OF THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE. MINDARK'S LIABILITY TOWARDS ANY PARTICIPANT SHALL, IF ACKNOWLEDGED, IN EACH INCIDENCE BE LIMITED TO NO MORE THAN THE INITIAL AMOUNT TRANSFERRED BY SAID PARTICIPANT INTO THE ENTROPIA UNIVERSE.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT MINDARK SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR THE LOSS OF ANY DATA OR ELECTRONIC FILES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ACCOUNT, AVATAR AND ITEMS, FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, SERVER FAILURE, INTERRUPTIONS, INTERNET LATENCY, VIRUSES, DEFECTS, ERRORS, AND NEGLIGENT ACT OF MINDARK AND/OR ITS AFFILIATES.

...

MindArk reserves the right to interrupt the Entropia Universe with or without prior notice for any reason or no reason. You agree that MindArk will not be liable for any interruption of the Entropia Universe, delay or failure to perform.
Click to expand...
 
Yes, the EULA says it all, they can pretty much do whatever they want, whenever they want, a PR guy saying something about guarented PED return means nothing, the EULA is the law.
 
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