Respawn Theory Poll

there have been many different theories about how resources respawn. Different players have done field experiments but now one has come to a conclusion. I think a poll might give a good idea into which theory is correct.

Theory 1:
Resource finds are player based: This means that the resources are not on the ground for players to pick up but they are randomly generated when players drop probes
MAIN POINT: If some other player has been mining in an area before you, you could mine in the same area without your finds being affected ( players could actually do mining runs together without having their find affected)

Theory 2:
Resources are on the ground: Doesn't matter whether avatar A is going to drop the probe in location (X, Y) or avatar B, they will both find the same thing ( it just depends who drops the probe first)
MAIN POINT: You shouldn't mine in a location that someone else has already been mining, Because the resources have already been cleared.


Resource allocation algorithms may change with each update, So if you have any other theory please tell me so maybe I could put it in later polls

DiabloP said:

I think a poll might give a good idea into which theory is correct.

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i don't but voted anyway

I believe in theory 2, however found on one occasion back in VU 9.4:

I found a mining claim north of Fort Troy belonging to another player but the owner was nowhere to be seen. Just for the hell of it, I stuck around until the mining claim expired, then dropped a probe of my own and found nothing.

Various explanations for this:
1) Unclaimed resources go back into the pool at a different location?
2) Resources are player-specific (Theory 1)?
3) Claim was at a depth for which I had insufficient skill to find?

The saga continues...

Maybe a combination of both:

There may be a dynamic limit on what can be found in a particular area at any give time.

Your avatar's ability to find resources may be limited to a second dynamic based on how much you have put into and taken out of the system previously.

...and other factors.

I think both statements are too inaccurate for me to choose one.

Theory 3: The resources are below earth, but is your own multiplier that defines the sizes of the finds.

Theory 1 isn't a theory. It's a fact. Theory 2 isn't a theory either. It's speculation.

Edit: Okay, so theory 1 isn't quite right. But it's more accurate than theory 2.

RobBuona said:

Theory 1 isn't a theory. It's a fact. Theory 2 isn't a theory either. It's speculation.

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Do you have proof of theory 1?

So standing at (X,Y) all the time and keep dropping probes is a good way to mine?

GravillionL said:

Do you have proof of theory 1?

So standing at (X,Y) all the time and keep dropping probes is a good way to mine?

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No. And neither, in my experience, is always mining the same general area.

I don't have the code MA is using but I know the second option is wrong. That's enough for me.

Can´t vote on this, as there is no option for OTHER, or non of the above!

I vote for theory 2438 'cause i'm sure theories 1-2437 will be wrong.

DiabloP said:

Theory 1:
Resource finds are player based: This means that the resources are not on the ground for players to pick up but they are randomly generated when players drop probes
MAIN POINT: If some other player has been mining in an area before you, you could mine in the same area without your finds being affected ( players could actually do mining runs together without having their find affected)

Theory 2:
Resources are on the ground: Doesn't matter whether avatar A is going to drop the probe in location (X, Y) or avatar B, they will both find the same thing ( it just depends who drops the probe first)
MAIN POINT: You shouldn't mine in a location that someone else has already been mining, Because the resources have already been cleared.

Click to expand...

Both theories are shit. Just 'cause an area gets blacklisted for about an hour (which is easily tested, and has been done) doesn't mean that ores "lie in the ground". Some people subscribe to the hotspots theory, others don't. The reason both parties exist is because there is no way to prove the other party wrong.

DiabloP said:

I think a poll might give a good idea into which theory is correct.

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Abstain. Polls don't tell us anything about whether a theory is correct or not.

Probably like mob spawns although you cant see red dots.

RobBuona said:

I don't have the code MA is using but I know the second option is wrong. That's enough for me.

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so you have no proof? you cant claim anything as "fact", and you're speculating. its simple to test 1: two avatars with similar skills and same equipment make the same runs, a defined (short) time apart, and make a control of random runs elsewhere. if theory 1 is correct, the avatar when following another avatar should get roughly the same as the control or if they are the leading avatar.

Both the theories i believe are wrong, too vague.

We all know that if its not your time to get a claim or decent loot it doesn't matter where you're mining or what your hunting your not going to get anything, if its your time to lose its your time to lose, so just because you might be mining where someone else has recently doesn't mean its because of them, it could be just that its not your turn to get any loot regardless of who mined where.

I remember when i first started i mined everywhere, in places that some people may not have mined for days, yet still found nothing.

Then on the other hand I've gone mining in places where people have just mined, hoffed several times while everyone else go nothing, personally i think its a mixture of a lot of things, i mean i towered in the spot someone had laid a bomb maybe 5-10 seconds earlier!.....

happy theory bashing

A while back, maybe three years ago now, mining resources were not instantly claimed. You have to move close enough to the location of the resource before the mining rod popped up and you received a deed to your claim.

If two miners were in the area and dropped a bomb or probe in a close enough space, both miners would sometimes latch on to the same resource. It was the miner that got to the location of the resource first that got the claim, leaving the other miner in the cold.

There were people who would suggest that one of the miners "generated" the mining resource and that the other was able to see it once it had been generated. But that always seemed like a ludicrous theory to me, since then when mining, you could either generate a resource or find someone else's resource. If you already have to search the area for neighboring resources, why bother with the self generating claim, too?

Also, you could stop searching for your resource before you claimed it. Sometimes you would do this on accident. But you could just toss another probe/bomb down and find it again.

Since they give you the claim instantly now, there is less reason to believe that resources are in the ground. Well, there is less evidence anyway. So people have come up with new theories like this idea that people actually generate the resouce themselves. While I have never seen any evidence that this is true, I have seen evidence for the in ground theory.

Until there is evidence for one, and while there is evidence for two, I'll stick to theory number two. Thanks.

It's pretty well established that certain types of resources can be found in certain areas. Beyond that, I guess it's all speculation. However, I tend to believe that resources are generated by an avatar when he/she enters an area and then those resources stay "in the ground" for a period of time before disappearing again. In other words, I'm the first avatar to enter an area in 12 hours. Within x radius around me, y number of claims are randomly generated. If I drop bombs in the right area and find those claims, great. If not, they eventually disappear.

The bottom line is that there are innumerable factors that could potentially affect how, when, why, or where resources are generated and what's a "proven fact!" for me may be "proven wrong!" to you. I don't think we'll ever figure it out. And if someone did, he/she would probably just exploit it and keep his mouth shut.

Jimmy B said:

Abstain. Polls don't tell us anything about whether a theory is correct or not.

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Exactly this is what i was thinking


Those 2 are imperfect theory to start with...
and lacks other obvious choices
as such the poll itself fraught with problems

But I commited to the better one....... #1.

I agree with a lot of the other posters that #2 is more wrong than #1.

None of the above!

Its not a definate 1 or 2.

It is a combination/variance of the above plus a few other factors.

The problem is, what MA used for mining claim distribution in VUxx most likely has changed considerably over what was/is utilized today, or even tomorrow.

Here are some other intersting observations.

1) Mining claims often are part of a vein of ore. Ask any experience miner and he/she will tell you that more often than not there are multiple finds together in an area like a vein.

2) Mining clains are often more valuable and frequent when located in very hard mobs area's. There was evidence of this when MA told the story of the Seg's possibly sitting on rich mineral claims.

3) PVP lootable area's often contain more valuable minerals and sometime are the only places to obtain certain minerals.

4) If you drop a probe and find a claim, does MA have it set so that the smallest size claim is found first. Then you will only discover the largest of the two if a second probe is dropped?

Proving that mining claim locations is player determined is very much impossible. You can't compare two miners walking side by side and one finds a claim and the other does not. There are two many factors that are not indentical between miners such as various mining profession levels and skills that determine how well you can mine, tools used such as the finder an use of enhancers, distance and timing between prob drop. and several other variables.

I have gone back to the same spot where I found a claim and tried again within minutes, hours and days and my results varied. I have even gone back to the same spot a year later and still did not find a claim again. The problem is proving this is very much impossible. Just beacuse I do or don't find a claim in the same spot again has to many factors. Was it there already and just deeper and now that I have better skills for my finder I found it? Was it there yesterday and another miner found it first that I don't know about?

So even things we think we know can change from player to player, day to day, VU to VU, especially when MA reads this and decides they need to make a change because we have figured out to much of their system and the house advantage is diminishing.

Just my 2 cents... Cheers

It does not matter which one is correct if any. Mining was "cracked" previously simply by watching mobs move. Mindark fixed that little bug by adding in the zero loot mob.

R4tt3xx said:

It does not matter which one is correct if any. Mining was "cracked" previously simply by watching mobs move. Mindark fixed that little bug by adding in the zero loot mob.

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You absolutely right! And that is the reason, why on Crystal Palace no mining areas at all! There is mobs, which always give loot!

I just clicked something random to mess up your poll. Im an ass.

Dinivan said:

I just clicked something random to mess up your poll. Im an ass.

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+rep

Personally I think there's a combination... personal loot pool + global "bonus" pool (similar to the progressive jackpot on slot machines).

Several years ago two miners in the same general area could find the same claim and as they followed their finder to it the first person there got the claim and the other one suddenly had no claim.

Happened to me more than once and used to get posted about on occasion.

Xavier_Jr said:

Theory 3: The resources are below earth, but is your own multiplier that defines the sizes of the finds.

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sounds about right.

My theory : drop a probe and see what comes out...
Other than that, i dont know anything..

Xavier_Jr said:

Theory 3: The resources are below earth, but is your own multiplier that defines the sizes of the finds.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

That and the tools/skills you are using will determine if you are able to find it even if it is there.



Amps helped to reveal a bit long ago (and today)....it is a multiplier thing in my opinion. The ores are there (or not, some places just plain DRY). Your multiplier (dependent on MANY things) will determine if you are able to find it.

For instance...finding a Tiny with a lvl3 amp. Without that amp (of that level) the find would not of been multiplied high enough to be able to be detected. MA "said" long ago that amps boost skills, so it is your skills that boost claim size (and ore types). So in my opinion, the ores are already there in various sizes, some sizes are too small to be detected without amps or other multipliers.

For the old school miners, Im sure you remember getting messages on finder that XX claim is too small to be extracted..?


oh, and if you find an edge that helps you beat the system, so to speak, worse thing you can do it post it publicly...as many already know (especially R4tt3xx) MA will change it in a heart beat, using forum info against us has always been their greatest tool.