Question: Unreasonable return since last VU

@ kim, I'll give you another example of why defense skills feel useless.
I287+2*106 amp on big scips
Evader lvl 50 was 60 ped armor decay in phantom + 5b
Evader lvl 62 is 60 ped armor decay in phantom + 5b
 
More decay, less loot - yes, got that. :banghead:

This is one of the reasons for why we're redesigning the loot lists. Players are supposed to be able to develop strategies that work well against different kinds of creatures that carry valuable and unique loot.

A simple creature, like das:s example the leviathan, might not be carrying as many interesting items and because more people will have a working strategy to kill them efficiently the items on them will have a lower markup.
 
I was happy with new VU :p i got about double from corn but im sure it will not last for long hehe
 
This is one of the reasons for why we're redesining the loot lists. Players are supposed to be able to develop strategies that work well against different kinds of creatures that carry valuable and unique loot.

You seem to be talking about the unique loot (1 out of +100k kills) while evryone else is basing their gaming on their current pedcard & not what might come after cycling another 1 million ped.
I did quite some hunting since the patch on several mobs
segs, kingfishers, malc, sumima, plongu's, big scips.
If i look at what I looted (in terms of mu) & droprate is normal, then I know I can't break even with 95% tt return.
I have 74 globals since patch, looted a full TT L gun from plongu's + 1 MF chip & had the 24 ped discovery MF chip on malc.
But what scares me the most are the stats of the new guns.
They seem to have less TT so I go from the assumption that they'll use more ammo & last ~same time.
For me, this means less avg mu in loot.
& since it's only been 1850 globals since my last +2.5k loot, I do need to rely on markup to somewhat survive
 
ah das,it could be worse,i only have 5352 globals since my last 2500 loot :)
 
This is one of the reasons for why we're redesigning the loot lists. Players are supposed to be able to develop strategies that work well against different kinds of creatures that carry valuable and unique loot.

A simple creature, like das:s example the leviathan, might not be carrying as many interesting items and because more people will have a working strategy to kill them efficiently the items on them will have a lower markup.

Are you being serious? :eyecrazy:

The few mobs that actually loot some items with a markup will be nerfed so MA makes more money from higher decay?

The only real problem this game has is "costs to play" and you make it even harder to compensate the losses through markup?



Why are you so damn keen on killing the game?

Seriously, you focus too much on squeezing more money out of the few players this game (still) has...
You'd be better off focusing on removing the reasons why people leave.
 
das,

You are correct about the fact that these new weapons have a lower decay rate in exchange for higher ammo-burn and the lower TT values would indeed create lower markup profit for you, if the MU remained the same as before. The difference is that players will now be able to pay a larger markup percentage on the TT value of the weapon as each PED in the weapon lasts longer than before.
 
I have 74 globals since patch, looted a full TT L gun from plongu's + 1 MF chip & had the 24 ped discovery MF chip on malc.

Would you rather have a 200 ped gun that you need to sell for 105% or a 75 ped gun you can sell for 130% ?
 
Would you rather have a 200 ped gun that you need to sell for 105% or a 75 ped gun you can sell for 130% ?

That depends on how much I need to cycle to get one
 
The difference is that players will now be able to pay a larger markup percentage on the TT value of the weapon as each PED in the weapon lasts longer than before.

Would you rather have a 200 ped gun that you need to sell for 105% or a 75 ped gun you can sell for 130% ?

Yes, the lower decay also means that markup has less effect on eco, meaning it does not hurt as much to pay maybe 120% for a nanochip as it would for a regular chip (using MindForce as an example since it was what I use, ofc).

Corrosive Attack Nanochip V (L) has 0.275PEC decay/use and 6.65PEC ammo/use. Total cost per use is therefore 6.925PEC at 100% and 6.98PEC at 120% (a difference of 0.055PEC/use)

Meanwhile, the Corrosive Attack Chip V (L) does the same damage but has 1.397PEC decay/use and 5.65PEC ammo/use. The total cost per use is 7.047PEC at 100% and 7.3264PEC at 120% (a difference of 0.2794PEC/use).
 
Why are you so damn keen on killing the game?
I don't always agree with wizzszz, but when I do...it's because of this! This is what I want to know! WTF WHY do you guys want to remove everything from every single mob that makes them worth killing!?

If I want to go to a casino I will, but that's not what I'm here for!

I mean damn...at least when I set down at a Blackjack table, I get free booze. The way you guys are going, I won't even have free booze to drown the sorrows of my losses.

You guys should try expanding your business (making other games or something, I don't know) rather than trying to squeeze every last penny out of us.
 
Average of an average???

I think you have problems understanding the meaning behind the math.

The data i have quoted (and that's what i was talking about all the time) is taken from the AVG ROI column in the google docs spreadsheet.

That's not the "average of an average" - that is the average overall payout, projected on one year,
or in other words, the payout (in percent) you can expect when you hold the deed one year (assuming you bought them for 1k PED).

...

It's the annualised average weekly % return. ie (cumulative total return)/(# of weeks) * 52 /(CLD price).
And the cumulative total return you've used starts at week 1, not wk 32 (15weeks ago), and so includes data from the events earlier in the year, as I stated.

If you want to look at the past 15weeks on their own, you could say perhaps that the Annualised Average Weekly % Return based on the past 15weeks payouts looks like this:
26.31%
25.12%
24.46%
23.83%
23.38%
22.98%
22.83%
22.86%
22.66%
22.45%
22.36%
22.23%
22.31%
22.41%
22.40%
which, while showing a decline over the summer, is starting to show recovery over the past 4 weeks.

Or, seeing as you've picked a 'random' period (that just happened to start with migration), I could instead look at 20 weeks (ie from the beginning of June), and then the numbers look like this:
25.53%
23.53%
22.05%
20.40%
20.91%
21.81%
22.11%
22.24%
22.21%
22.15%
22.04%
22.03%
22.11%
22.04%
21.94%
21.91%
21.84%
21.92%
22.02%
22.03%
Numbers are fun to play with, and really you can make them say almost anything you want, depending on how you cherry-pick them.

I always prefer looking at the raw data tho, and anyone who does that can clearly see that CLD returns are not falling into an abyss as you are implying, and have some uptrend now that the northern hemisphere summer is over.
 
This creature was designed using an "old school" approach with low health and high damage which results in fairly low loot amounts per kill.

Ty btw for confirming 1 of the reasons I'm thinking of leaving.. Defense skills & medic skills/gear means nothing.
Sad to see this for a game that's supposed to be skillbased.

i normally agree with you but this i find a bit strange, "anyone" can kill those HP monsters that dont do any damage, i hate them and i think they cause problems for some players, at least with low HP high damage creatures you know you are taking a risk hunting them.

about the markup you mention in other places, i agree that MA or whomever makes these changes should take a little more care.
 
Would you rather have a 200 ped gun that you need to sell for 105% or a 75 ped gun you can sell for 130% ?

Would you rather buy a 200 PED gun for 105% or a 75 PED gun for 130%?

This story has obviously TWO sides, and as long as there is no advantage (better dmg/sec, dmg/pec), this nerf makes no sense.

It's just, MA will not give us better dmg/sec or dmg/pec for free - and even if they do, what happens to the guns that nobody needs anymore? They stop droppping? They still drop (maybe less often), but you can't even sell them for 101%??? What happens to the former uber toys that will become worthless?


This is exactly the crap we see every time when they talk about "improvements to loot" - less no loots :yay:, but instead of a yellow message we get worthless fragments (because they drop too often) or loot windows with 2 ammo cells.... :yay: :yay:



Please, cut everyones salary down by 10% for two years and hire someone who has a bit knowledge of economy.

Oh, and cut the coders salaries by at least 25% and fill the loot pool with that money, because, frankly, they are seriously overpaid for the crap they deliver - I could easily compile a list with several 100 bugs, each of them survived more than one VU...
 
This is one of the reasons for why we're redesigning the loot lists. Players are supposed to be able to develop strategies that work well against different kinds of creatures that carry valuable and unique loot.

A simple creature, like das:s example the leviathan, might not be carrying as many interesting items and because more people will have a working strategy to kill them efficiently the items on them will have a lower markup.

you dont have it easy :)
i asked earlier in the thread about the high amount of ammo i seem to be receiving in loot, this is really annoying.
the same goes for most of the enhancer/tier "junk", at the time it was said the large amounts were to help these professions along, if my memory serves me right, it was quite some time ago so i wonder if the help is still needed.
maybe you could do something for the players by increasing the drop rate of ESI's, this would lower markup on ESI's a little which would allow for more liquidity in the skills market, some economists claim that high liquidity and allowing free movement of capital increases confidence in markets. :)
i know some people might say its a bad idea to lower markup on ESI's especially when people are complaining about returns but if they loot more of them it cant be a bad thing? and maybe people would be willing to pay a little more for skills if less of the cost was the ESI.
 
Still not the point... Kim said it would be looked into today to see if anything changed and I don't see a response to that, please get back to us ASAP.
I continue to not play and when I do it's on Nyph Island sweating... maybe killing a few other low level mobs.

PLEASE explain the 0pec ammo we keep getting? That indeed is a change in loot.
 
Still not the point... Kim said it would be looked into today to see if anything changed and I don't see a response to that, please get back to us ASAP.
I continue to not play and when I do it's on Nyph Island sweating... maybe killing a few other low level mobs.

PLEASE explain the 0pec ammo we keep getting? That indeed is a change in loot.

Look in the TOP RIGHT corner of the website and click on the link that says "Dev Posts" then read all the ones you see there.

~Danimal
 
Or, seeing as you've picked a 'random' period (that just happened to start with migration), I could instead look at 20 weeks (ie from the beginning of June), and then the numbers look like this:
25.53%
23.53%
22.05%
20.40%
20.91%
21.81%
22.11%
22.24%
22.21%
22.15%
22.04%
22.03%
22.11%
22.04%
21.94%
21.91%
21.84%
21.92%
22.02%
22.03%
Numbers are fun to play with, and really you can make them say almost anything you want, depending on how you cherry-pick them.

These numbers are even lower than the all time average, clearly showing that the average will decrease even more. Everyone holding CLDs dreams of riches and profit - argueing with them is just like argueing with religious fanatics - belief is stronger than any reason or logic.


Time will tell, useless to argue that now.


/Edit:
And btw - your numbers decrease from 25.53% to 21.84% that is a minus of 3.69% - and later they "recover" from 21.84% to 22.03, a plus of 0.19%...

Even with "cherry picking" you didn't get a sample that looks good - these +0.19% are even less than the standard deviation - is that REALLY your idea of growth? A small bump that is even smaller than the normal ups&downs?
 
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This is one of the reasons for why we're redesigning the loot lists. Players are supposed to be able to develop strategies that work well against different kinds of creatures that carry valuable and unique loot.

A simple creature, like das:s example the leviathan, might not be carrying as many interesting items and because more people will have a working strategy to kill them efficiently the items on them will have a lower markup.



It is about to become as I always said because it is MA's dream is that all will be 100% except loot shall be as low as possible,and higher repair costs.:wise:
 
I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with the loot system. We have several safeguards and watchdogs in place to prevent any such thing from happening as we know such a problem could have devastating consequences.

I'm personally very satisfied with this VU and feel it is a nice one other than being locked for 2 days because of bugs. But I have to disagree with you in this statement, remember the ore's claim size was buggedwhen implementing new mining UI in last year ? The claim size of ores had the same multiplie as enmatter, and it was bugged for a week or so, Mindark never admit this bug, but it was quite obviously bugged in that time. I personally feel the hunting loot is not the case tho. I'm quite satisfied with my hunting result recently.
 
@ kim, I'll give you another example of why defense skills feel useless.
I287+2*106 amp on big scips
Evader lvl 50 was 60 ped armor decay in phantom + 5b
Evader lvl 62 is 60 ped armor decay in phantom + 5b

This is because mobs have a "learning period" for evading. Once you have reached a certain level you have practically maxed your ability to evade hits with little to zero benefit of having even higher evade. At least that is my observation.
 
@ Kim:
If most players tell you that you have a problem with how loot is implemented, you should see what or if anything could be changed for the better. You keep saying that all works as is supposed to work. This is a lot worse than saying that there was a bug that was fixed.
It used to be that it was impossible to see variances that high in loot. You claim that loot system is the same as at that time. However, loot variance has changed dramatically, making any adjustments one can think of mean less and less.
I will always take the word of a player over the word of a developer with a bad track of keeping that word. So if people say loot is unreasonable, you would have to show a lot of data to make some of us even care that you said anything. You should be aware of that situation more than anyone else. You need to gain back the respect of the community, and I sincerely hope you will. Because I know you can if you want to.

The strategy of your company is to keep secrets about how some aspects of the game work. Is obvious that such a situation will bring up trust issues. You claim things are in one way and give no evidence for that being so. Basically you want us all to trust you. At the same time, you are famous for making promises you can't keep time and time again. So, why any reasonable person would trust just words with no proof? We all need to see some responsibility. Or accountability? I know... big words...
What will you do if world won't end in 2012? Because you do behave like you are convinced there's no tomorrow.
 
Just my tiny info...

I did a small run on carabok punies again after vu. It was just a 50 kill run.

Anyway, the results were somewhat the same as before vu.

Average loot per carabok: ~3.5 pecs
Average cost per kill: ~4.15 pecs
Rate of Return: ~84%

It was done using S.I. Scorpion.

One thing I did notice was how ammo cells were used to pay up fractions of a pec.

Pre VU, the case might have been that system determined a loot of 1.74 pecs and I would have looted only 1 animal oil residue, 1 hide or 1 extractor. But now post VU, I would have gotten 1 of those plus 74 ammo cells. So I'ld say returns have been somewhat "improved" by the ability to gain fractions of a pec. But that's only on low level mobs...however, I reckon the same would apply for high level ones?
 
das,

You are correct about the fact that these new weapons have a lower decay rate in exchange for higher ammo-burn and the lower TT values would indeed create lower markup profit for you, if the MU remained the same as before. The difference is that players will now be able to pay a larger markup percentage on the TT value of the weapon as each PED in the weapon lasts longer than before.

That reminds me of the recent change in decay of implanters. When I look at the markup of a baby-esi compared to a big one it feels like comparing old L guns to new ones.
Haven't even thought of the impact of crafters clicking guns & what that will do to the markup of looted guns.
 
The lower amount of global loots are due to the fact that we're running an event that involves hunting Primordial Longus. This creature was designed using an "old school" approach with low health and high damage which results in fairly low loot amounts per kill, this in turn results in fewer overall global loots.

I can understand the frustration some of you feel when you're having bad loot runs and when it coincides with a VU its easy to place the blame there but I can assure you that there is nothing wrong with the loot system. We have several safeguards and watchdogs in place to prevent any such thing from happening as we know such a problem could have devastating consequences.

This might actually be an explanation for the 30% decrease in the amount of global loots on Planet Calypso. But, if I understand correctly, it also means that we will see a 40% increase in the amount of global loots when the event ends.
 
The decrease of globals can also be inflicted by all the drama connected to "faulty loot". If you are afraid that you wont get any loot becouse of it, you probably are at planet calypso forums whining about it and dont hunt :).
 
The decrease of globals can also be inflicted by all the drama connected to "faulty loot". If you are afraid that you wont get any loot becouse of it, you probably are at planet calypso forums whining about it and dont hunt :).

I have 80 globals since patch, think i know what i'm talking 'bout
 
I have 80 globals since patch, think i know what i'm talking 'bout

Okay thats awesome...

But see, those who is playing it safe and dont hunt, their globals are missing from tracker thus the amount of globals are even smaller.
 
Would you rather buy a 200 PED gun for 105% or a 75 PED gun for 130%?

This story has obviously TWO sides, and as long as there is no advantage (better dmg/sec, dmg/pec), this nerf makes no sense.

Maybe you should bother to find out what we are talking about first?
 
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