Open letter for the Balance Manager

Dear Balance manger,

I have now been in this game in almost 5 years and having fun. In that time i have seen a lot and triede a lot.

I hunt, I craft, I mine and yes trying all proffesions. Right now my best level in hunt is 78, best in mining is 40 and best in crafting is 29. Skills around 315k and 210 hp. So im not an uber but more an allround player.

I had my moments in looting. Best so far was my 26k Binary - yes it was fun and I was (and still are) happy. But is it good for our comunity that a single avarta get that good loot?

That is why i write you this letter.

What is making a player happy in this game - and what makes other unhappy. I hope we both can agree on the more happy ppl in this game the better for all of us.

We have the last half year seen an increasement in ATH loot. Does it make the comunity happy to see it is possible for one to get a loot like 50-100k ped? No i dont think so, not even those with a gambling abuse syndrome. I think the more ATH dropping the more will say enough is enough and quit the game. I think it is much better to make 50-100 ppl happy for a 1k loot than make 1 happy for a 50-100k loot. I know there is UL items with a high tt but do they need to drop together with a lot of oil and other UL or (L) items?

Sometime a better HOF has several good (L) items in the loot. Why's that? I think more ppl will be happy if those 1 avarta loot is spit amongst more players.

Why not split those UL and (L) items on more ppl?

Some (few of many) excamples:
it finally happened DD
My First 5 Digit Loot
a full item SEG
7703 PED Attacker, Lots of items!
12142 Ped Mulaak`f
and could continue..

With this current loot strategy i think Entropia is more a Casino than a Game where you like to keep a steady (increasing) player base. Giving smaller HOF's will keep more money in the game. Im sure if I one day should be so lucky to get a +100k loot i'm sure ill withdrawel a lot of that. But if I get regulary 500-1000 ped loot i'll recycle them - and maybe even deposit more to get that special item i have been hunting.

Im not the one to tell how this should be - but i think maybe it is time to give that loot strategi a rewrite.

With the hope of many years to come and a better loot strategy in this game and a good summer.

If MA is only looking for one time depositors and not regulary players that stay for many years and deposit regulary - then keep all as is - else do some changes........

Kindly
Yq

Update 1:
This has been send to MA support. If you agree you should make a support case too.

Yq said:

2010-06-24 09:24 You wrote:


Dear Balance manger,

I have now been in this game in almost 5 years and having fun. In that time i have seen a lot and triede a lot.

I hunt, I craft, I mine and yes trying all proffesions. Right now my best level in hunt is 78, best in mining is 40 and best in crafting is 29. Skills around 315k and 210 hp. So im not an uber but more an allround player.

I had my moments in looting. Best so far was my 26k Binary - yes it was fun and I was (and still are) happy. But is it good for our comunity that a single avarta get that good loot?

That is why i write you this letter.

What is making a player happy in this game - and what makes other unhappy. I hope we both can agree on the more happy ppl in this game the better for all of us.

We have the last half year seen an increasement in ATH loot. Does it make the comunity happy to see it is possible for one to get a loot like 50-100k ped? No i dont think so, not even those with a gambling abuse syndrome. I think the more ATH dropping the more will say enough is enough and quit the game. I think it is much better to make 50-100 ppl happy for a 1k loot than make 1 happy for a 50-100k loot. I know there is UL items with a high tt but do they need to drop together with a lot of oil and other UL or (L) items?

Sometime a better HOF has several good (L) items in the loot. Why's that? I think more ppl will be happy if those 1 avarta loot is spit amongst more players.

Why not split those UL and (L) items on more ppl?

Some (few of many) excamples:
it finally happened DD
My First 5 Digit Loot
a full item SEG
7703 PED Attacker, Lots of items!
12142 Ped Mulaak`f
and could continue..

With this current loot strategy i think Entropia is more a Casino than a Game where you like to keep a steady (increasing) player base. Giving smaller HOF's will keep more money in the game. Im sure if I one day should be so lucky to get a +100k loot i'm sure ill withdrawel a lot of that. But if I get regulary 500-1000 ped loot i'll recycle them.

Im not the one to tell how this should be - but i think maybe it is time to give that loot strategi a rewrite.

With the hope of many years to come in this game and a good summer.
__________________
Peace - Yq

Read more on this link and see others feedback too: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...ssion/191508-open-letter-balance-manager.html

Click to expand...

Update 2:
The response from Support (big surprice)

Support said:

2010-06-24 15:56 Entropia Universe Support:
Hi,

Thank you for taking the time to submit your suggestions. We really appreciate this kind of feedback and have forwarded your comments to the balancing team.

We are unable to say whether or not your suggestions will be implemented, but please stay tuned to the News section and Version Update Content Lists on the website.

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

Update 3:
Thx for all the +rep. Every little drop of water into the glass will slowly fill it up. So if we really want to do some influence on how we like this game to be. Dont stop pushing MA

Have a nice summer to all

Update 4:
I send a copy of some of your +rep and got this comment back from support:

2010-07-28 16:39 - Entropia Universe Support:

Hi Yq,
Your feedback is very important to us and you can be sure that we have forwarded this case to the balancing team and that they are currently looking into this.
Unfortunately we don't have any information about this at the current time to be able to provide you with a more satisfying reply.
We thank you for your patience and participation as you are an important member of the Entropia Universe experience and want to wish you a nice day.
Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

Click to expand...

Just keep pushing them.....

Update 5:
If you like the loot system to be changes then send in support cases - and post them in this thread.

Support said:

(Oct 19, 2010 3:03 PM GMT) - Entropia Universe Support:
Hi again,
Thank you for sending your suggestions to improve the game.
I have forwarded them together with your request for an official response to the balancing team.

I have also given them the url to your post.

If there is anything else I may assist you with please let me know.
Have a wonderful day.


Kind regards,

Myriam | Planet Calypso Support

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Agree, said that I can't believe MA still didn't come to same conclution by themself. Their aim should be to attracet and KEEP all players not to aim for a player to play 6 months (thats what Marco said once)

If bigger loots like this were more common, myself and every other addict would be able to camp -any- mob for 24hrs a day and never lose.

That wouldn't be very fair to the MM and imk2 owners now, would it?

Immortal said:

If bigger loots like this were more common, myself and every other addict would be able to camp -any- mob for 24hrs a day and never lose.

That wouldn't be very fair to the MM and imk2 owners now, would it?

Click to expand...

It also means average player with(kors400, p5a and other wildly avaible) would loose less wouldn't it ?

Which comes to conclution that buying ul gun as MM is a nice investmnet (this should be like this i think)

Immortal said:

If bigger loots like this were more common, myself and every other addict would be able to camp -any- mob for 24hrs a day and never lose.

That wouldn't be very fair to the MM and imk2 owners now, would it?

Click to expand...

And then have a game with only MM and imk2 players. Will that be cool?

I'm with you on this.

Even though I got 3 of these big loots myself I think it would be better to make multiple people happy with less big loots. I too have played for 5 years and in the early years it was just completely awesome. It was actually superb to get even a global. These days you NEED 10 globals to break even!

Good point indeed.
Like today with the 20K Feff. It is nice for the 1 person but would be better if it was like divided to 10 ppl. This will ben 10 ppl whit a 2K loot and this way thay will stay ingame for sure and keeping the money ingame also.

If I looted like 20K I windraw 15K the same day just to buy a new pc .........

But if there are only small loots, there would probably never be enough ped within a single loot to actually withdraw.


this banana is just awesome!

Totaly agree with the starters post and + rep for it, but eventhough feels like talking to a brick wall.

Yquem said:

And then have a game with only MM and imk2 players. Will that be cool?

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So basically, you want a socialist game where any noob can walk off the street and start profiting with the same ease as a 8yr veteran.

That would make skills completely pointless

I totally agree. However BIG ubers could still exist, they should just take longer to build up. Like today we have almost a 10k hof on trox atleast once a week. Make this take a month to build up instead and make a bit more regular payouts.

And yes giving 5 or such good items in one loot is just totally reeeetarded!!!

Immortal said:

So basically, you want a socialist game where any noob can walk off the street and start profiting with the same ease as a 8yr veteran.

That would make skills completely pointless

Click to expand...

Not sure i understand your point here?

Noobs do get ATH as of today. What i like is to keep noobs in this game and not only have the 'old dogs' with MM and imk2.

Hmmm - about skills - im pretty sure that high skills as of today are not equal high loots. Every noob can get a ATH so loot is not skill based maybe average return rate is - but not the single drops of ATH.

Legion said:

I totally agree. However BIG ubers could still exist, they should just take longer to build up.

Click to expand...

Not necessary... I mean there could be x10 bigger turnover due to more ppl playing. It means x10 more players are working for those bigger once...

Its not about the 5-6 digit loots, I like them happening.
I am not unhappy if someone hits 6 digits loot, while I got my average 80% the same time.

Its about 2-5 items in those loots, and all lower loots are oils and wools only.

It would be far more balanced if there is a maximum of 1 item in loot, so that items get spread around to different players and not to one player.

For me it doesn´t make sense that a nice UBER Feffo drops 3 Korss at once to one player. Give 1 Korss to the UBER, and the other two weopons to other players, in smaller HoFs.

Thats what is anoying to me. You need a fat UBER loot to have a chance to get a nice item, and than it happens you hit this 5 digit UBER and there are 3 nice items in it, everyone worth several k PED markup.

I am for a 1 item in loot limit, so that all nice gear get spread around to more players.

good luck getting that to him.

Sending anything to MA is a nightmare, i can image getting them to listen is even harder.

Would like to see them reply to this

there is contact information on MA website somewere

Yquem said:

Dear Balance manger,

I have now been in this game in almost 5 years and having fun. In that time i have seen a lot and triede a lot.

I hunt, I craft, I mine and yes trying all proffesions. Right now my best level in hunt is 78, best in mining is 40 and best in crafting is 29. Skills around 315k and 210 hp. So im not an uber but more an allround player.

I had my moments in looting. Best so far was my 26k Binary - yes it was fun and I was (and still are) happy. But is it good for our comunity that a single avarta get that good loot?

That is why i write you this letter.

What is making a player happy in this game - and what makes other unhappy. I hope we both can agree on the more happy ppl in this game the better for all of us.

We have the last half year seen an increasement in ATH loot. Does it make the comunity happy to see it is possible for one to get a loot like 50-100k ped? No i dont think so, not even those with a gambling abuse syndrome. I think the more ATH dropping the more will say enough is enough and quit the game. I think it is much better to make 50-100 ppl happy for a 1k loot than make 1 happy for a 50-100k loot. I know there is UL items with a high tt but do they need to drop together with a lot of oil and other UL or (L) items?

Sometime a better HOF has several good (L) items in the loot. Why's that? I think more ppl will be happy if those 1 avarta loot is spit amongst more players.

Why not split those UL and (L) items on more ppl?

Some (few of many) excamples:
it finally happened DD
My First 5 Digit Loot
a full item SEG
7703 PED Attacker, Lots of items!
12142 Ped Mulaak`f
and could continue..

With this current loot strategy i think Entropia is more a Casino than a Game where you like to keep a steady (increasing) player base. Giving smaller HOF's will keep more money in the game. Im sure if I one day should be so lucky to get a +100k loot i'm sure ill withdrawel a lot of that. But if I get regulary 500-1000 ped loot i'll recycle them.

Im not the one to tell how this should be - but i think maybe it is time to give that loot strategi a rewrite.

With the hope of many years to come in this game and a good summer.

Click to expand...

This has ofc been send as a support case too - and all that agree should do that.

I agree partially... will agree fully after I get the big one...lol

But seriously... MA/FPC or w/e got the exact numbers... as long as they dont get any alarming figures they wont change a thing on this matter.

Cheers,
Robo

Though I do understand where you are coming from with this, tbh I like the idea of a possibility of looting 5k or 10k usd )

There is something good and bad about this idea.

Some people invested alot in this game thinking there is a system where there ped is supposed to come back at some moment as returns.

Most of the time... someone getting a ATH could say they had lose almost as much as the loot message indicate...

Some endup with profiting overall in their Entropia Career. This is to encourage player that overall their money is still around and its their choice to do what they do next.

Most of these people... keep most of the money ingame, invest in better gears and help the economy that way, those person wont deposit for a while but they mainly did it alot before that you know... which overall is good to install a capital of trust into the community that someday youll atleast see a return of some sort...

Entropia is supposed to be working on a system which differentiate it from being gambling... so it would be logical that our deposited money would be accounted for a investment of some sort and they have a system for returning it to us in some way, thats somehow how the system work and why it is legal... alot of player know they wont get back all the money they invested cause they did things to have fun and knew about it... but having some part of it back to reward us to have kept stimulating the economy and let the world evolve should also be in the plan... Is it too much to ask?

If you never deposited in this game everyone know you still have good chance u profit. BUT honestly it should really be on a smaller scale, if you dont invest you dont expect income isnt?

Now if the system change? Some peoples that are still yet to receive something to trust the system would receive nothing? What i mean is there some ppl around who are losing in their entropia career so far more than what a ATH could pay them back even 50% of what they loses... So if they balance it the oldplayer would never receive anything and this would break the retention on short and longterm.

What i mean is if there actually just random big ath given to anyone it should atleast be smaller that for sure...but keep the avatar-based return ones as they should be...

I myself will ATH, its a matter of time, and i dont want to be nerfed when its gonna happen because i deserve it for all the time and money i invested into this goal

They should implement a new system which slowly incorporate the loot balancing with each vu and newcomers coming along in the boat

As long as older player should still be part of the whatever actual system which seem to reward player who plays for year. It could also be that once you get what the system had planned then you would endup in the new system. You get a nice due return and then switch back forever for the smalle hof system but more enjoyable gameplay.

to demonstrate what i mean is easy... lets just say the actual system is made so were supposed to have 80% returns.

Some ppl have bad return for year and months, they are having 30% of their return yet and then they receive a 50% back in one shot making it a ath so everyone think he is lucky but most the time he had lost as much, overall 80% return. Just took a while... but it came back, and it was a good thrill.

Some ppl have good return overall, they never got big hof but they always have overall return of 80% all week long

Both scenario are the same, every player get the same return but some just had to spend more to get it... the problem being there, why some have to spend huge amount to get big amount?

Alot of ppl seem to be interested to have the 80% return system all the time on a week/month basis instead of a decade basis, but they forget that some are already in this universe for a very long time and might be getting only 30% of their expected return ... and need it back someday... which usually the reason behind a ATH.

In those case if Ath are deserved, i think its fine.

So on long term most ppl would get their return if the system actually indicate they should and you would see less and less big one. Some would be deserved, some just special event or atleast rarer so anyone could get it but then not all the player would have to suffer huges loses in a short amount of time.

We may be already in this system, and maybe the new batch of player that were introduced to the game with ads and promotion of vehicle and rocktropia or even before might see them getting smaller loses and be more inclined to stay because they think they have good entertainment for the money.

SOME OF US ARE THE PIONEER of this game and yet got nothing back in the lootwindow... i think we kinda need to have privilege if the system ever change for something different because where would be the hope then?

As days like now which seem easier to ATH then it might also mean that ppl who are due will finally see the light at the end of the long dry loot tunnel...

Because they now have a chance every week or month.

I would be glad to get atleast 50% of what ive lost in the last 6year so i could buy back some of the gear and toys i had to sell just to keep going. And yes even for a 50% return i would need a ATH.

After that i wouldnt care if i could never ath again and be switched to a new system where loot is more fair and more 2k around and less 100k'... i would had gotten my return anyway, im not greedy, i would trust the system as i did the last 6years, this would sure make me play again...

Almost everyone just want a fair return % and be happy to play this universe and pay a % for entertainment... as long as i get my returns as it should be then do whatever is best.

Conclusion?
A system where 100 avatar get 1000ped instead of 1 getting 100000ped essential... But dont forget players around for years who need a 100k+ loot to cheers them of being so patient of losing way over that...

xX Gently Xx said:

Though I do understand where you are coming from with this, tbh I like the idea of a possibility of looting 5k or 10k usd )

Click to expand...

Ewryone wish to loot cumulative looses of other players in ATH but those who continue to loose all time quit sooner or later.

Dan59 said:

Ewryone wish to loot cumulative looses of other players in ATH but those who continue to loose all time quit sooner or later.

Click to expand...

It has worked like this from the beginning of the game afaik. But in beginning player base was thinner, cash flow smaller so 1k seemed like ath, and loot destribution was easier to balance (speculation). Maybe they didnt even change any balance - just the cash flow has this certain influence. As for losses - it all depends on how you play. I remember reading from Star's chat how you used to stay in the ring and skill with cleric dagger 10orsomehinghigh, and how everyone thought u were crazy. Ofcourse if you play like this (though i understand that its not always your way of game play) you'll be in minus. I, for myself figured how to play and not lose a lot - I know others can too.

Some ppl quit, some ppl stay - it's not as disasterous as you say.

I agree, the loot is not balanced enough atm.

We see a lot of very big loots lately. Which indeed is turning it into a big Casino.

There are a lot of people who come online ask how loot is. If it is bad they conclude oooh another ATH comming i will log off till after it dropped.

I do not say the high uber loots should not drop. But if the buildup time was done over a longer period the normal loot would not need to turn so bad. The buildup should actually be unnoticeable. The ATH's are starting to become predictable due to the bad loot before.

May by 5 or 6 ATH's in a year in each category keep enough suspense for most people i think. I also think that at least 80% of the active players is not actively searching for the ATH and are just happy to play normally and pay each month for it.

I think most players hitting the ATH today think 'i will withdraw 80% and with the rest i can play for a few months then i will see again'. This is not helping the in game economy.

A more balanced loot will lead to a much more active and stable in game economy. Which makes it a lot more attractive for new players to stay. The get rich fast scheme is getting rather thin now a days.

Cheers
Siam

Im not saying then ATH like 50-100k ped should dissapear they should just be more rare.

Biggest prob is still that one loot can have a ATH and several UL itmes and some (L) items. I think they should change the system so only one 'good' items will be possible in one loot.

Did you send this as a support case? I doubt anyone from FPC Or MA will get to read it if you dont

xX Gently Xx said:

It has worked like this from the beginning of the game afaik. But in beginning player base was thinner, cash flow smaller so 1k seemed like ath, and loot destribution was easier to balance (speculation). Maybe they didnt even change any balance - just the cash flow has this certain influence. As for losses - it all depends on how you play. I remember reading from Star's chat how you used to stay in the ring and skill with cleric dagger 10orsomehinghigh, and how everyone thought u were crazy. Ofcourse if you play like this (though i understand that its not always your way of game play) you'll be in minus. I, for myself figured how to play and not lose a lot - I know others can too.

Some ppl quit, some ppl stay - it's not as disasterous as you say.

Click to expand...

You have wery wrong info about me.
Ppl used to skill in ring in masses but with m2201 and agressio - ie cheapest way possible. It was time when you got skills regardles what weapon you used and ratio skill gain/ decay or ammo was positive in that time. ( if we can say like that - no essi and selling skils in that time too and no L shit too but olnly weapons you max at lvl 100).

*i lived about 2 years with umbranoids instead with mentioned shortblade 10

*i liked to be fapper on wich other ppl skilled in ring too ... lol

*Ring was used more as skilling area and nobody used big guns in that time

rhogenbe said:

There are a lot of people who come online ask how loot is. If it is bad they conclude oooh another ATH comming i will log off till after it dropped.

Click to expand...

The problem with the insane ATH frequency now is that there is never a period where the returns are "reasonable", since essentially right after one ATH the next one starts building and loot sucks again.

This is why I stopped my SOre-ASS service long time ago and am very happy I hunt with turnovers that are 1/3 - 1/4 of the peds I used to burn during SGA.

Many others chase the dragon and go full speed for ATH, just not me...

/Slupor

Hmm...

rhogenbe said:

I agree, the loot is not balanced enough atm.

We see a lot of very big loots lately. Which indeed is turning it into a big Casino.

There are a lot of people who come online ask how loot is. If it is bad they conclude oooh another ATH comming i will log off till after it dropped.

I do not say the high uber loots should not drop. But if the buildup time was done over a longer period the normal loot would not need to turn so bad. The buildup should actually be unnoticeable. The ATH's are starting to become predictable due to the bad loot before.

May by 5 or 6 ATH's in a year in each category keep enough suspense for most people i think. I also think that at least 80% of the active players is not actively searching for the ATH and are just happy to play normally and pay each month for it.

I think most players hitting the ATH today think 'i will withdraw 80% and with the rest i can play for a few months then i will see again'. This is not helping the in game economy.

A more balanced loot will lead to a much more active and stable in game economy. Which makes it a lot more attractive for new players to stay. The get rich fast scheme is getting rather thin now a days.

Cheers
Siam

Click to expand...

I can not agree that this game is a big Casino... In a Casino game evrybody have a chance to a great Loot but have you meet somebody with a Omegaton 2100 killing a Fugubarba Young and catching a Global, Hof, ATH? No, and be sure that will never happens... The Lootsystem is not a Casino is ruled by a Softweare that select the player that can find in that day the good Loot... and not evrybody coresponding to this selection!... Is my feeling from today... and I think this must be the reason why o lots of players can't find more fun and a surviving strategy for tomorow!!!

GandalfSzary said:

Agree, said that I can't believe MA still didn't come to same conclution by themself. Their aim should be to attracet and KEEP all players not to aim for a player to play 6 months (thats what Marco said once)

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not sure if they dont whant that... they could do so many things tyo not let so many ppl leave.

i think this was MA plan, to lower the priceses and make accesibel for more player to becomme an ”uber„.

the question when will they stop and will start the get the fresch blood, hope not to late.

Dan59 said:

You have wery wrong info about me.
Ppl used to skill in ring in masses but with m2201 and agressio - ie cheapest way possible. It was time when you got skills regardles what weapon you used and ratio skill gain/ decay or ammo was positive in that time. ( if we can say like that - no essi and selling skils in that time too and no L shit too but olnly weapons you max at lvl 100).

*i lived about 2 years with umbranoids instead with mentioned shortblade 10

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thank you for explanation, this is why I added "I read in chat"- it is definetly not a fact. I just used it as example of how people can do crazy things to lose money. I have a buddy who hunts Levis - he just maxed Apis not long ago, and uses 2600 as main amp - though for now he seems to be doing ok, I do expect him to lose, as he is hunting above his level. This is what I mean by people chosing how to play. I personally dont feel how those ATH hurt MY gameplay, hence I don't mind them - it's only my opinion, this is all ))

Not sure any of this is constructive really, all been said before ad bloody nauseum.... MA are still going to conduct their operations as planned.

Just my perception - If this were posted by a person with less Forum profile/experience they would cop huge amounts of "waaaambulance" flak....take that however you want.
Why should this one be any different?

I do agree on one main point though, one 90k ATH would be better spent over 3 x 30k HoFs.

That's how I would be looking to sell the game.

Guess the appeal is aimed at new players following the casino huge jackpot advertising hook...