100% Safe Flights

DrPaddo said:

This is a copy of the support ticket i wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------

Hello MindArk Staff,

First of all, best wishes for 2012.
(First support case of the year, hopefully the last!)

I've seen it happen 5 or 6 times now that people are activaly using an exploit to carry people loaded with loot thru space. As they admit one can enter a Privateer/Mothership and just log off, as the pilot warps to a planet. This is exploiting to the max, offering 100% safe rides, so other Q-Wing pilot are out of work. Besides this making Pirating useless...

If MindArk is against Pirating in Space, please remove the PVP from it, and I will happily sell out all my skills and go play something different.

I remember NeverDie saying stuff about how the pirates would be cool and so on.
For now we are getting ass-slammed over & over & over again, not only by the community (where Advisors had to turn in jackets), or having Space Stations bugged so we can land on a Planet every time, no this time MindArk says "Hey PVP isn't so cool after-all, lets just re-edit it so people can cheat"...

I say this because more then 4 persons sent support cases about it, and had a reply in the sense of "No this is cool, please continue your goings..."

This is utter craziness in my eyes, seeing Pirates getting nailed for every kill we strike, and let the "Big-boys" cheat the system like there's no tomorrow...

----------------------------------------------------------

Sent 02-01-2012 after 5 days MindArk hasn't come up with an anwser...
Anyone got some clarification ???

Click to expand...

Quit complaining!!!

This is just so pitiful it's ridiculous and reminds me of little kids whining because they can't get what they want...just accept it...go after the quads loaded or the sleps ...people paid big bucks for the motherships and if your good enough you can shoot one down...i didn't log out when i transported heaps of loot and no one could toutch us or bothered to try...

Robin said:

bothered to try...

Click to expand...

That is the point, why bother trying to shoot it down passengers can log off before they get looted.

maybe theres some AFK people? that can't log on ?Motherships?

but honestly i will just start bringing gunners then then quads will be squashed.
either way doesn't matter

Im not a pirate, more like the victim of pirates.
But I still feel this logging off to bypass the danger in space intentionally is a exploit. There should never be a 100% safe way in a PVP zone, thats not what it was created for.
It's unfair to pirates, unfair to quad taxis and also unfair to those who fly through space in their quad loaded with 1k PED stuff always in danger of getting shot down.
The ticket on MS doesnt even have to cost more then a quad taxi, i heard of someone giving MS taxi for 100 PED regardless of how many people (so more people and it might even be cheaper), or single tickets for 20 PED.

So what can MA do to fix it? Avatars who are inside a mothership stay in game if they log out? possible way to fix. Avatars are beamed away if they log out? Is worse then what normal pilots have to deal with. People might end up at a space station without any way to get off it alone etc. cause they have no ship of their own, so no. People who log out on a MS stay in game for longer then usual? 15min? 30min? 1hour? possible way to fix too, probably better then staying in game forever.

dale011 said:

That is the point, why bother trying to shoot it down passengers can log off before they get looted.

Click to expand...

We had loot duh!!! i said... no one bothered to try ...oh and did you not get the part we didnt log off??

I remember NeverDie saying stuff about how the pirates would be cool and so on.

Click to expand...

employee perk. See Force's latest posts.

Note to planet partners: BEFORE you cut off interplanetary auctions, I purchased quite a few things from other planets, and I suspect others did too.

Now that things are as they are, that trade is going down a lot because the sellers are adding on travel costs (a few you or MA used to get via auction transport fee)

Robin said:

We had loot duh!!! i said... no one bothered to try ...oh and did you not get the part we didnt log off??

Click to expand...

I see English isn't your first language so I'm not going to explain it to you.

dale011 said:

I see English isn't your first language so I'm not going to explain it to you.

Click to expand...

What does that have to do with anything?
Nothing she said was incoherent.
It is obvious she has an acceptable grasp of the English Language rather it is her native tongue or not.

narfi

I would hope so, since I happen to be American

It looks like MA (unlike the majority of players) are looking at the log-off issue from all angles before rushing in with a fix that creates more problems than it solves. I do hope so.

I don't know about other MS, but on Normandie, accidental DC due to internet or client instability is 20 times more common than deliberate log-off. And deliberate log-off is usually due to a crew member or passenger going afk (often even going to bed) during a long trip.

I've yet to read a "solution" that wouldn't heavily penalise people under these very common and unavoidable circumstances, and even make it impossible to maintain a functional crew.

The idea of extending the log-off time seems reasonable, until you recall that a disconnected player is not allowed to re-enter the game whilst his ava is still logged on. It is not reasonable to expect that an MS could continue to function with its pilot and other crew members entering a zombie-like state for long periods, at any time, due to dc. It would also be profoundly irritating , to those it happenened to, to say the very least, and would probably completely kill MS travel, because crew would rather play the game than spend their time just waiting to log back on- only to face all the problems that their extended absence caused.

Everybody has their own little axe to grind on the thread. very few people seem to appreciate the complexity of the issue, nor care about all the other ramifications.

As for pk-ers getting all self-righteous about bug exploits.... The bugs that really worry me are the ones that make people unexpectedly vulnerable to looting, They've happened before, they will happen again, and Pk-ers have swooped to take advantage every time.

One thing that comes to mind is that time when Akmuul TP was accidentally placed inside PvP4 redzone, and a further bug enabled people to enter PvP4 without a shot . What did you honourable pk-ers do about that? You camped the TP, waiting for unsispecting victims, that's what! That kind of of bug makes a total mockery of the notion of informed consent, doesn't it?

I wouldn't claim that any form of travel is ever 100% safe, because we never know what kind of bug will hit next, do we? Only that pirates are bound to be the first to know about it.

jay

jaywalker said:

I wouldn't claim that any form of travel is ever 100% safe, because we never know what kind of bug will hit next, do we? Only that pirates are bound to be the first to know about it.

Click to expand...

amen.

msgtooshort

Great post Jay

Laradon said:

The ticket on MS doesnt even have to cost more then a quad taxi, i heard of someone giving MS taxi for 100 PED regardless of how many people (so more people and it might even be cheaper), or single tickets for 20 PED.

Click to expand...

100 peds is cheap if you've planned to bring an entire party over.

100 peds is expensive if you just want to move yourself between planets where it's unlikely you'll get more than yourself as (paying) traveller at the same time, without the hazzle of getting shot down 2 times leaving the space station.

(I also had the problem of having items at the wrong place as I moved all items on planets to calypso before space - not knowing ofc that space would be lootable - however I got a a few opportunities long time ago to move most of my stuff to the "right" planet. It had been nice though if MA would have given us an opportunity to move things savely since space lootable pvp was implemented without warning.)

More then 2 weeks have passed, no reply from MindArk...

Tonight i t'd to the krus to skill, and saw 2 sections slowly losing SI... i watched wandered to the tt on board and looked at the low tt of loot i had.

Waited

Waited some more

Then i remembered this thread so didn't tt it and stayed logged in lol


See ya sometimes get loot outta motherships , enjoy the 2-3 ped

After two weeks I've finally gotten a reply from MA!

"Hi,

Thank you for your report and our most sincere apologies for this very late reply.

I have forwarded the issue to members of the responsible team for further investigation and any irregularities found will be adjusted. Please stay tuned to the News and Release Notes sections on the website for further information and developments.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Kind regards,
Obadiah | Arkadia Support"

Finally.

Got a reply!!!!!!!

Finally it's there:

Hi,

We apologize for the late reply. We have been informed that this is an intentional feature from the design team and not a bug. However, this issue is under revision by the design team and may be changed in the future. Please stay tuned to the news section and Release notes for future information.

We wish you fun and success in Entropia Universe

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

We'll have to see wich "revisions" will be made...

Well thats good news meaning its not a bug and therefore not a exploit.

Who do you think they will listen to .
The traders( like me) ,with 10-30K peds ores in transit or a noob with a 175 ped Quad

So who do you think Ma wants to pack up and leave the game first ?

If u get it your way im out and maybe all the other traders , We HELP the Comunity ,
You just fly around like flies looking for dung.


TAC

TACUTTING said:

Who do you think they will listen to .
The traders( like me) ,with 10-30K peds ores in transit or a noob with a 175 ped Quad

So who do you think Ma wants to pack up and leave the game first ?

If u get it your way im out and maybe all the other traders , We HELP the Comunity ,
You just fly around like flies looking for dung.


TAC

Click to expand...

plus rep to you

TACUTTING said:

You just fly around like flies looking for dung.

Click to expand...

They are flying around looking for you so...

If people are logging off MS to avoid being looted because there is a logoff timer bug (which is what it sounds like it happening), when clearly there is a timer function in place, in all other areas of entropia, to stop EXACTLY this kind of exploit, then I hope it is fixed so that people cannot exploit the loophole.
If you're a passenger on a ship, you should not be able to log out to avoid being looted in space. Just like you can't log out (and shouldn't be allowed to anyway) as someone starts attacking you in PVP4, in order to avoid being looted.


I personally think that if you are under attack from anything, you should not even be allowed a timer. You should be forced to stay in-game until the threat is over...
...or you die.

ps: I don't PVP but I do go into lootable PVP areas regularly.

Profit said:

I personally think that if you are under attack from anything, you should not even be allowed a timer. You should be forced to stay in-game until the threat is over...

Click to expand...

So if I'm outside (serious) pvp areas, I'm chatting but under attack from let's say exo young, wearing ghost (=it gives me 1 dmg hit), I shouldn't be allowed to exit the client to restart computer (if required)? Consider the case for instance (happened in vu 8) that I was attacked by a mob I wasn't able to see and I needed a relog to see it. In vu 9 (it might be computer related), sometimes my weapon stopped working (I wasn't able to switch between weapon and FAP), and a relog fixed that aswell. (The first thing I particularily remember being attacked from an invisible mob and after a relog it turned out to be a foul young, the second one frequently happened for instance when hunting in a land area.) In pvp, if you could stay alive 30 seconds without moving, you probbly had time enough to charge a TP-chip if you were a miner and didn't have a mob hitting on you aborting it. In space, until recently, you had to relog to be able to put down a vehicle in hangar area.

(With "serious pvp-areas" I mean pvp areas where pvp/staying alive plays a major part such as lootable pvp areas and during landgrabs, not areas that has pvp turned on by default such as the corridors between land areas on amethera.)

Profit said:

If people are logging off MS to avoid being looted because there is a logoff timer bug (which is what it sounds like it happening), when clearly there is a timer function in place, in all other areas of entropia, to stop EXACTLY this kind of exploit, then I hope it is fixed so that people cannot exploit the loophole.
If you're a passenger on a ship, you should not be able to log out to avoid being looted in space. Just like you can't log out (and shouldn't be allowed to anyway) as someone starts attacking you in PVP4, in order to avoid being looted.

Click to expand...

No, there is no Logoff bug, it works the same way in Space as it does on planet.

There are two fundamental principles which MA should never compromise
- Logging Off is a normal action, and can never be considered an 'Exploit'.
- you cannot be looted whilst logged off.

It is MA's concept of Space which is flawed, and in particular, their greed in designing Motherships which they sold for large amounts of Ped, which are unworkable unless crew and passengers travel with them.

Perhaps MA will changes something when the next version of Space comes, but there really doesn't seem any way out of the hole they dug themselves.

chevrons said:

There are two fundamental principles which MA should never compromise
- Logging Off is a normal action, and can never be considered an 'Exploit'.
- you cannot be looted whilst logged off.

Click to expand...

To make it unexploitable in space you would also have to add:

- You can not be moved around while being logged off.

I'm on a 100% safe flight right meow! little Aeris is piloting her quad with the haul from travelers leaving Ark on her way back to caly, yet I'm here posting and reading pcf. I even forgot to resupply ammo and have only 30ish is shots. Space is soooo big with only a little diligence you can have a safe trip with your/other peoples stackables. no need for this silly log out thing to continue any longer. I don't think its a bug MA knows people would do this if attacked. but I do think they need time to better expand on space and include all/more of its features. I will add there where 2 active priates when I came up to ass that did attempt to follow but its just sooo easy to evade people that nose is over.

If you want advise on how to survive space ask me in game I am more then happy to assist!

Aeris_is_back said:

If you want advise on how to survive space ask me in game I am more then happy to assist!

Click to expand...

Last time I was in space I got shot down flying back from mothership to Calypso. At about 15% SI left (damage by mobs around the mothership), I got shot down by Stagger (the one DrPaddo is working for - "Nebula Virus", for some reason looking like a green triangle rather than red). And as you know MA gave him his fast quad, can't be outrunned.

(And after I got shot down, I got CTD, followed by "Avatar already logged in", "Disconnected" and that sort of crap, and have to begin from where I started. Not fun.)

aia said:

So if I'm outside (serious) pvp areas, I'm chatting but under attack from let's say exo young, wearing ghost (=it gives me 1 dmg hit), I shouldn't be allowed to exit the client to restart computer (if required)? Consider the case for instance (happened in vu 8) that I was attacked by a mob I wasn't able to see and I needed a relog to see it. In vu 9 (it might be computer related), sometimes my weapon stopped working (I wasn't able to switch between weapon and FAP), and a relog fixed that aswell. (The first thing I particularily remember being attacked from an invisible mob and after a relog it turned out to be a foul young, the second one frequently happened for instance when hunting in a land area.) In pvp, if you could stay alive 30 seconds without moving, you probbly had time enough to charge a TP-chip if you were a miner and didn't have a mob hitting on you aborting it. In space, until recently, you had to relog to be able to put down a vehicle in hangar area.

(With "serious pvp-areas" I mean pvp areas where pvp/staying alive plays a major part such as lootable pvp areas and during landgrabs, not areas that has pvp turned on by default such as the corridors between land areas on amethera.)

Click to expand...

excuses to cheat the system.
the only reason why the majority is for this cheat..
is because they wish to laugh at me attempting to kill their ship which is impossible within 10-20 seconds for logout.

sure MA didn't intend that.

aia said:

I got shot down by Stagger

Click to expand...

guess i already made you pay for your comments.

DrPaddo said:

Finally it's there:

Hi,

We apologize for the late reply. We have been informed that this is an intentional feature from the design team and not a bug. However, this issue is under revision by the design team and may be changed in the future. Please stay tuned to the news section and Release notes for future information.

We wish you fun and success in Entropia Universe

Kind regards,
Entropia Universe Support

We'll have to see wich "revisions" will be made...

Click to expand...

It's not an exploit MA says so....


We apologize for the late reply. We have been informed that this is an intentional feature from the design team and not a bug.

Bolded and rewritten for the obviously mentally deficient.



So why do you keep attacking motherships at the moment stagger when you know they gonna log, are you some kind of dimwit?

Why not just wait and see if/when they review it?