A little reminder about whiners

right... to get this out of the way first...



Now, the real message.

I am a critical poster. I do criticize MA for their &#*&-ups. I do criticize MA for the warped ratio of cost to entertainment value.

According to quite a few people, this makes me a whiner[/quote]

Whiner
Someone who won't stop complaining about everybody else, but yet gets mad when they hear other people complain. They usually pay more attention how other people make them feel than to what they are actually saying.

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whiner
A nagging upset complainer. A spoiled person who cries when he doesn't get his way.

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In my view, the phrase "whiner" is used too often in a derogatory way, most often by people forgetting one main thing:

The "whiners" take time and effort to put their thoughts in writing.

Feedback, whether good, or bad, is a gift to the company. It enables the company to see how their product is doing, and how it can be better. More even, I -and many others who have been labelled "whiners" at times- provide ideas how to make things better.

Ideas may not always be workable, but they can lead to a better world to all.

So next time when you don't agree with someone... take a breath... delete the "Would you like some bread with your whine" and think before you post.

Why does someone post what he does? Which parts are wrong, but what part is right? How can we all get better from what someone posts?

And by all means, try to avoid attacking people on a personal level, that's not only disrespectfull and an insult to your own mother (who didn't raise you like that), but it is also not why we are all here.

If you have gotten this far in the post, thank you for taking the time to read it all.

Happy hunting (or whatever it is you do )

Whine if you must I don't mind so long as you bring a solution to the problems you are whining about.

1 Constructive criticisim is worth more than 100 pity parties IMHO.
Posted via Mobile Device

Hi,

fully support this.

I am a classical "whiner", it's just my nature not to care about the things that work, but to be well aware about the things that doesn't work, and to criticize.

This makes me make money in the IT industry. Nobody here cares about things that work - they are meant to work, after all!

But if they don't work, there's problems. Analyzing such problems, finding solutions to improve, pointing to weaknesses is usually most welcome, and well paid.

Do "fanbois" ever contribute to the success of a project? How would they?

Putting pink glasses on, and just seeing what works, and praising this, might be nice and enjoyable, but actually means to work against the project, IMHO. Ignoring the weaknesses, or fighting to cover them, doesn't do no good.

Weaknesses have to be eradicated, not to be hidden, wouldn't you agree?

This way IMHO it's the dreaded "whiners" that actually contribute to the improvement of a project, and the "fanbois" are the ones hindering it.

Just my 2 PEC.

Have fun!

Are you whining about the use of the word Whiner? jk

You are right though some words are overused and used to a point that they lose there meaning. I think the worst offender is the word noob, especially in other online communities.

Be grateful for what you have does not apply to this game, since you cannot script your RL to be better

People are quick to throw out labels such as noob or whiner. Critical observations are necessary to identify trends and work towards a solution.

ahh the bread...

Time for a "fanboi" to step up to the plate I suppose. I welcome constructive criticism with open arms. I really do. It 's when there's nothing constructive about the posts that I label people "whiners".

People also should be careful about their criticisms. Be sure that what you're offering is actually constructive in some way. Offering one or two fixes along with a huge post full of potshots at MA and us fanbois is doing more harm than good IMHO. If what you're posting amounts to a ton of insults, people tend to lose sight of the good things you did bring to the table.

Lastly, don't assume that your opinion (ie "loot system is broken") is fact. Some people do very well for themselves in this current "broken" loot system. Don't assume that your idea of fun equates to others idea of fun. We each have our own ideas and thoughts as to how things should be, but FPC can't possibly conform to every situation.

Almost everyone I've known in game tends to whine about bad loot and bugs at least some of the time. Difference to the "forum whiners" is that it is usually temporary in the form of soc chat or pm, so doesn't linger around to annoy people I rather enjoy whining about bad loot, it vents frustration and sharpens my foucus to get it right later on
That said, nobody wants to hear a whine when they're doing well; but talk to most who've just lost a few k ped. Misery loves company

Wollongong said:

Feedback, whether good, or bad, is a gift to the company. It enables the company to see how their product is doing, and how it can be better. More even, I -and many others who have been labelled "whiners" at times- provide ideas how to make things better.

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IMO a gift is something you give away freely without expecting anything back.... With customer feedback I guess you like something in return, at least some kind of responce.

I think being a whiner is nothing bad as long as you stay to it.

I'm an outed whiner.

Deal with it.

If this disturbs you, then go away

well IMO:

Whiner = someone who critizises something in a non-helping way

so... if you give critique that might help, you're not one

Xandra said:

...Do "fanbois" ever contribute to the success of a project? How would they?

Putting pink glasses on, and just seeing what works, and praising this, might be nice and enjoyable, but actually means to work against the project, IMHO. Ignoring the weaknesses, or fighting to cover them, doesn't do no good...

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Agreed. I'd send some rep your way but I gotta spread it first

I am someone that generally doesn't read whinning threads, I I think that if you are that unhappy with the game that u need to whine about it all the time, quit and play something else..

Saying that I totally respect ur right to put your complaints out there and as long as u offer feasable solutions I can see them being of some benefit.

I really don't care about whiners.. What I do HATE however.. is.. posts ABOUT whining.

typical whiner thread

Yup, someone making a complaint is ok, whining is not.

Hummmm.... examples?

A guy posts that after 2 years of playing his password doesn't work and he can't log on. He's sent a support case but he's had trouble with getting a response from MA support in the past on minor issues and is concerned about his un-planned absence from the game. This is a complaint, and fine.

Same guy posts that after 2 years of playing Mindark still won't listen to him about how to run their hugely successful game platform, and despite doing ok himself, he thinks no-one else should ever bother with EU. This is a whine.


If I can see your point and sympathise with your problem, and your post wins me to your cause, it's a complaint, or even a rant. These are good, and can solve problems. If I can't care about your problem it's a whine.

Hurrikane

P.S. Oh, and what Joser said

Wollongong said:

Feedback, whether good, or bad, is a gift to the company. It enables the company to see how their product is doing, and how it can be better. More even, I -and many others who have been labelled "whiners" at times- provide ideas how to make things better.

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Well this is a community forum, try sending your feedback to the correct department...... Support ticket availible HERE.

Putting your feedback into the PUBLIC forum allows you to be targeted by the public for thier own feedback on your thread/post wether its good or bad

GL with future feedback just thought i'd give ya some oh and have a +rep for fun.

I'm sorry Hurr, I do respect what you're saying, but..

Hurrikane said:

...their hugely successful game platform...

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Come on now.
They got a couple sentences in a business mag and that makes them hugely successful?

MA's just barely on the radar compared to *ahem* won't mention that spacegame here.

I guess success is a relative thing.....

Yirrk said:

I'm sorry Hurr, I do respect what you're saying, but..





Come on now.
They got a couple sentences in a business mag and that makes them hugely successful?

MA's just barely on the radar compared to *ahem* won't mention that spacegame here.

I guess success is a relative thing.....

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ROFL, nothing like whining in a whining thread

Rgds

Ace

I dont care if people whine. If i dont like it i wont read it.
I dont live in a communist state so i can whine.
But remember, if you give it, you better be able to take it.

How bout' Whiners in Game?

Ahhh, everyone deserves something right? hahahaha. Whine all you want you


whiners. And I will have a glass of Merlot or pinot noir while you are whining whilest I drink wine .....

A whiner can never help in a project, because he is way to selfcentred and lack the ability for objective critisism.
Fanbois are way ti biased as well, but at least they have the dedication to think of interesting improvemnts in better detail.
I can understand, that some people need to let some steam off from time to time, but I absolutely siklike those "kings of negativity" that want to pull others down into their depression.
If the system works for the mayority but not for you, the problem is most likely not the system

InDaHouse said:

Well this is a community forum, try sending your feedback to the correct department...... Support ticket availible HERE.

Putting your feedback into the PUBLIC forum allows you to be targeted by the public for thier own feedback on your thread/post wether its good or bad

GL with future feedback just thought i'd give ya some oh and have a +rep for fun.

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Hehe, I am aware of the fact that posting feedback in public will result in more feedback in public (*). And I do also, at times, provide tickets to MA.

However, the great value of discussion here is (I think) that MA/FPC guys see how the discussion unrolls, they get not only MY view, but also that of others. And of course, we build upon the foundations the posters before us have laid.

A group effort is always better


(*)However, the common remark "Want some bread with that whine" has nothing to do with giving feedback.

SJG said:

I dont care if people whine. If i dont like it i wont read it.
I dont live in a communist state so i can whine.
But remember, if you give it, you better be able to take it.

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Do not read this reply!

Omg.. you read it! shame!

Yirrk said:

I'm sorry Hurr, I do respect what you're saying, but..





Come on now.
They got a couple sentences in a business mag and that makes them hugely successful?

MA's just barely on the radar compared to *ahem* won't mention that spacegame here.

I guess success is a relative thing.....

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From what they started with to their turnover now is what I'd call hugely successful; not Coca-Cola Inc but a multi-million dollar business is a multi-million dollar business in my eyes

I've tried a few of the "other games" and I stuck with EU. Another success lol

Hurrikane

without whiners fanbois and ubers for find all their uberl33t gears and itens worth tt in a short while. the 1% who think MA is perfect wont keep the server open. should be thankful for whiners, they pay the bills.

when they stop whining they stop playing, and depositing.

Hi,

WoenK said:

A whiner can never help in a project, because he is way to selfcentred and lack the ability for objective critisism.
Fanbois are way ti biased as well, but at least they have the dedication to think of interesting improvemnts in better detail.

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Well, this is an interesting interpretation. This might change the way we see the things this thread is about - after all it doesn't mean less than changing the definitions of "Whiner" and "Fanboi" ;-)

• "Whiner" now is someone that "lacks the ability for objective criticism" - well, would suit. Question is just who's defining "objective" ...
  Since even most absurd statements like
  • "Everybody can profit in EU if playing smart enough",
  • "It's impossible to break even in EU these days", or even
  • "Xandra doesn't look like a crossbreed of Barbie, 'Crocodile' Dundee and Alfred E. Neumann" ...
  usually find some whackos believing in it, proclaiming it as truth and judging it as "objective" it doesn't mean less that there's no whiners anymore - there's a lot of different "objective" perceptions, right?
  .
• "Fanboi" now has "the dedication to think of interesting improvements in better detail" - OMG, me became a dreaded fanboi =8@
  After all I have written huge walls of text containing more or less detailed suggestions how to improve the things that I criticized before ...

But I fear it's not this easy. I'm still branded as "whiner", and nobody would call me "fanboi" I think. Just redefining the meaning of words will not work ...

WoenK said:

I can understand, that some people need to let some steam off from time to time, but I absolutely siklike those "kings of negativity" that want to pull others down into their depression.

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This is something I'd use to help determine if somebody is a "fanboi" - when any critics is labeled as "want to pull others down into their depression", for instance. When it is constantly proclaimed that the sun is shining, the birds are singing, and that EU has bazillions of participants all profiting if not completely stupid.
When anybody not sharing this imagination is labeled as "king of negativity".

Or if I read statements like this:

WoenK said:

If the system works for the mayority but not for you, the problem is most likely not the system

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Dear "fanbois", it might haven't come to your knowledge that the vast majority of EU participants meanwhile have a time of participation of less than some months, that very few meanwhile start depositing at all, and that very few of these very few actually stay longer, depositing? And you might have missed that once overcrowded places like PA or TP are quite quiet today, compared to some time ago? And you might have missed that middle class gear fell drastically in price, because of lack of demand - the new participants don't reach the skill range anymore to have use of it, and the ones that have the gear leave or improve?

Maybe you should leave your cloud-cuckoo-land sometimes, go down where the new participants are, and find you some dedicated and strong ones out of them to FL - and then watch how fast they'll vanish!

I admit that my view might be biased. I admit that I'm very unhappy with the way this game takes, and that it's actually just the remaining hope that the planets system will make things better that keeps me from reaping my profit and leaving. I might be wrong.

But I conceive it as insulting to be labeled "whiner" constantly. I have spent many hours to formulate detailed suggestions, thought & wrote of many ways to improve, have even contacted MA directly with proposals, and have offered to help with the Ad problem.

Haven't I "whiner" done more for this game than some "fanboi" only labeling me as "whiner", and proclaiming that "the problem is most likely not the system"?
There's quite a lot of "whiners" like me, a lot of them even more engaged and more helpful to the community than me - close to all of the huge resources this forum has is coming from them!
And there's even some very prominent "whiners" - but I guess you "fanbois" wouldn't have the balls to call 'em "whiners" ...

Have fun!

PS: WoenK, plz excuse that I used your post to quote - it just suited. I don't know if you are a "fanboi", and I have no negative feelings towards you at all. Your post just came handy to illustrate ...

PPS: About "fanboi" - this term is used by me to point to a certain state of mind of participants. It is used without valuation, thus used in quotes.

PPPS: Wouldn't it be in our all interest to point to areas of problems, wrong decisions and such? Wouldn't all of us but the few exploiting those profit of it? Isn't it in our all interest to make this EU better? Who but a few exploiting the current situation would mind a change for the better for the majority of EU participants, and for the better success, and survivability of this game?

A ridiculous argument: “winers never offer constructive criticism”

This one is easy to rebut. By complaining about something, an end user identifies a problem area in the game. This is invaluable information for any self respecting company.

Even more valuable would be the fact that people complain over and over again about the same thing. That should be a HUGE alarm bell for those who own the game. It should increase the sense of urgency in solving the problem.

It is not the job of the customers to offer solutions to problems, it is the job of the company to solve them

In the last few months I realized that it is useless to complain. Every grievance aired in this public forum in at best ignored, and it immediately attracts the pink eyeglass whearing fanboy vultures.

By the way, it is not the winers who damage a company, but the yes-men, and those in the company who like to listen no them.

MA has set up her own forum. Nobody really posts there, the action is here. The MA bosses probably take a look at that forum from time to time, see little activity, and assume that everything is alright.

Recently I came to understand that MA is just a small group of people who set up a company and wanted to play with the big boys. I realize now that I shouldn’t expect the same level of customer care as I expect from serious players in this industry. The serious players solve the problems; they don’t drop everything and go on holyday.

I wouldn’t be surprised at all if in the next few months an announcement would be made, that those who own EU now have sold the company, cashed out and went to live in the Caiman islands.

It’s a pity. I happen to like this game, and I know it could be something really great if handled properly.

I think the terminology is askew, or atleast is in my eyes.

In my eyes, Whiners in EU, has been the lable for the people (like me ) that complain about things that dont work even tho "fanbois" state it should, the "whiners" vent their frustrations, sometimes with less then adequate proof, to show what they are talking about, only to get flamed by "fanbois" for lack of complete and undeniable evidence.

The "fanbois" in EU are the ones constantly claiming that its the "whiners" that are doing "something" wrong, that the system is flawless and we should all get off MA/FPC's back, the system is wonderfull, no need for any change, thats the mentality of a "fanboi".

Personally, i see myself as a critic, and at the same time an enthusiast, and this combination does lead many of my posts to be regarded as "Whining" to the untrained eye, but i allways offer suggestions for improvements, either directly, or indirectly in my posts.

THIS post however, was just a clarification of the terminology as it seems to me, why did i even bother to type this? heck if i know

Another thing about *whiners*

I'm an off-on whiner! And I'm proud of it. Some of the biggest whiners are often people who has been playing for the longest time - might have been loosing most - tried to deal with the eventually *problems* in game and want solutions! Otherwise whining and playing doesn't go along.

Constructively whining about problems people can feel and see is different than some of the whinings, some come up with. But remember, to the whiner the problem caursing the whining is constructive and real enough ..

Whining is mostly a sign of frustration - because lots of us have been here for years, we WISH to keep coming here, to keep playing in what we feel is a second home - and yet, so much is undone, half finish, bugged or not logical - that some of us might wish it was less dynamic sometimes - and we KNOW that a few adjustments could make this THE game of life ...

Did I whine? Maybe, and I would like a piece of bread for it too, thanks ...