Opinion Poll: Should low mobs drop good items

Aside: I was discussing with some friends today the relative merits of EU and -- other games -- and the refrain "MindArk doesn't listen to its players" came up. I asked for a specific example and we arrived at one situation that everyone in the conversation could agree on; however, my expectation was that the majority really wouldn't agree, and hence: this poll.

Currently, there's a certain amount of feeling that the motivation to skill up, buy big weapons, and hunt big mobs is lacking in EU. If someone with an amped p2a and 1k hg skills can go out and hunt argos (just to give one of many possible examples) at about a break-even and with the hope (however slim) of looting an eon helmet or shadow gloves worth thousands and thousands of peds, why would anyone want to use a massive blp killing machine to take down a despletor or other always-loot mob that gives a very low average return with the (also slim) hope of looting a similar uber item? Is that really how "we" want things -- do "we" want everyday mobs to loot uber items as good as the most difficult mobs?

What do you say? If you vote "yes" then please share whether you've ever hunted always-loot mobs (CP mobs, large atrox, hogglos, etc.).

Doer said:

Aside: I was discussing with some friends today the relative merits of EU and -- other games -- and the refrain "MindArk doesn't listen to its players" came up. I asked for a specific example and we arrived at one that everyone in the conversation could agree on; however, my expectation was that the majority really wouldn't agree, and hence: this poll.

Currently, there's a certain amount of feeling that the motivation to skill up, buy big weapons, and hunt big mobs is lacking in EU. If someone with an amped p2a and 1k hg skills can go out and hunt argos (just to give one of many possible examples) at about a break-even and with the hope (however slim) of looting an eon helmet or shadow gloves worth thousands and thousands of peds, why would anyone want to use a massive blp killing machine to take down a despletor or other always-loot mob that gives a very low average return with the (also slim) hope of looting a similar uber item? Is that really how "we" want things?

What do you say?

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Because the daspleator leaves you with a higher chance of looting that certain item along with the chance of pulling up a new #1 ATH which is a bit smaller when it comes to argos...

RidingDirty said:

Because the daspleator leaves you with a higher chance of looting that certain item along with the chance of pulling up a new #1 ATH which is a bit smaller when it comes to argos...

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Yes, but in this example, argos not ONLY loot decently throughout, but also have the possibility of looting a good item. There should be a consistent balance between the difficulty of mobs versus how well they loot?

Problem is the business that kill the player logic progression to make it become a player business progression.

PE was a game where you work your ass out to become someone and archive a goal, EU is a universe where you put your walley in to buy a future profit.

Things change , you better start to adapt.

play a game if you want things to be fair, this is a virtual universe with risk, greed, and crime... you know... like RL.

Etopia said:

Problem is the business that kill the player logic progression to make it become a player business progression.

PE was a game where you work your ass out to become someone and archive a goal, EU is a universe where you put your walley in to buy a future profit.

Things change , you better start to adapt.

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Many of us in the conversation were CND babies and have never seen anything but the way it is now. I was inclined to say when i first read your comment that it has actually gone the other direction, but then i realized you are not talking about hunting (which is now a field where up-front investment is rather discouraged for the reasons i mentioned) and realized that what you say is true -- investing in capital is the trend for "making it" in EU; however, i did post this in the hunting forum because it's largely an issue specifically unique to hunting. The mining and crafting professions have (climactic and profitable) benefits to high skills, but there is nothing comparable in hunting.

This is preciesly the issue - hunting is completely different to mining/crafting, they are not group activities in the way hunting is (potentially).
If there is a complete lack of balance in the looting of mobs why (from a pure cash prespective) would anyone ever move from hunting exas - they loot nice guns and 1k+ hofs, and for any decent player are an extremely easy to kill mob...
I have spent well over a year improving my skills to hunt bigger mobs both solo and with friends, but it feels completely hopeless hunting the larger mobs when i see the global channel spammed with low end mobs for huge cash payouts that include high end items.

Tougher mobs should drop "better" items. That's a given. What is "better" is subjective at times. We've seen angel pieces drop from molisks and eon helms drop on argos...and young ones at that.

"better" items *do* drop from low-level mobs, but it seems not often enough for some.

OTOH, why Troopers have chairs is beyond me...

my opinion is they should drop the chance should be there but it should be way lower than on big end mobs for exsample lets make up a imaginable ratio 1000ppl hunt argos for a year 3 of them get a uber item 100ppl hunt hoggolos for a year the ratio should be like 10 of them get a uber item and overall return should be atleast similar on cost/return ratio on average not that someone hunts hoggolos for 3h makes a 300ped loss with no loot above 5 ped with average of 1-3 and someone else hunts exsosaur in same time with loots in range of 0-5 average and loots quite often over 10ped...

Yes ,



But then my defenition of good items doesnt restrict itself to shadow , eon , supremacy, eon, impMK2 , Mod Fap etc....


I think that of for example a Berycled dropping Viking shins and a Faucerfix dropping some thunderbird is quiet impressive.
It would certainly put a big smile on my face

The probability of drops of the same item should be higher on Uber mobs I agree but since luck is involved throughout the whole experience of EU why not let a beginner hunter have the chance of getting an adjusted fap from an ambulimax young ?? i see no harm in that. I would just wish it were me when i see that one in the hall of fame



Castro

It's been stated time & time before that EU is dynamic yet your more likely to get a decent/better item from a smaller mob. Look at how they loot...you can hunt snables/bery's/daiks all day long and loot at least something on every mob. Hunt corns/trox/allo's of high maturity and loot maybe every 3-4 mob.

I agree w/the prior post, smaller mobs should loot decent items, but it should be very far/few in between also let the higher maturity mobs loot once in a while.

Take away the chance - and it is a remote chance indeed - of an "uber" item on a mob achievable by 90% of the players and you take away the dream that keeps a lot of people going and, depositing.

Would you get more drops then from tougher mobs? Not a chance, MA make it clear they regulate such drops.

This reminds me a little of the threads from a while back complaining about the amp'd O users draining the loot pool to the detriment of the higher end players. Amps are nerfed - anyone notice the better loot yet?

Leave people the dream - MA don't leave em much else atm

I choose other on this.

I guess my perception of PE/EU is that loot was on an curve and as you skill up more options are open and available to you. So you might have a chance at looting great items early on but as you progress your chances should get better and you should see a noticeable difference in loot maybe not always in more value but some type of progression.

Young maturity mobs should have a chance at looting good items but not a better chance than the big mobs or higher maturity mobs. Eventually the way things are most people low skill level and high skill level will just hunt the young to mid range of mobs just to have a better chance at getting a good loot instead of waiting the hit the ATH lottery and loosing loads of ped along the way.

A good sense of progression in hunting mobs will lead to more people working their way up but if you cut of the benefits of hunting big mobs people will stick at the level that works for them.

So if you knew you had a better chance at looting an Adj fap off Provider and higher maturity Ambus wouldnt you skill up and upgrade or team up to hunt those higher maturity Ambus? I know I would, but thats just an example.

Sirhc said:

I choose other on this.

I guess my perception of PE/EU is that loot was on an curve and as you skill up more options are open and available to you. So you might have a chance at looting great items early on but as you progress your chances should get better and you should see a noticeable difference in loot maybe not always in more value but some type of progression.

Young maturity mobs should have a chance at looting good items but not a better chance than the big mobs or higher maturity mobs. Eventually the way things are most people low skill level and high skill level will just hunt the young to mid range of mobs just to have a better chance at getting a good loot instead of waiting the hit the ATH lottery and loosing loads of ped along the way.

A good sense of progression in hunting mobs will lead to more people working their way up but if you cut of the benefits of hunting big mobs people will stick at the level that works for them.

So if you knew you had a better chance at looting an Adj fap off Provider and higher maturity Ambus wouldnt you skill up and upgrade or team up to hunt those higher maturity Ambus? I know I would, but thats just an example.

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Wise words , and yes I would also go for the providers (quoting last paragraph )

Morat said:

Take away the chance - and it is a remote chance indeed - of an "uber" item on a mob achievable by 90% of the players and you take away the dream that keeps a lot of people going and, depositing.

Would you get more drops then from tougher mobs? Not a chance, MA make it clear they regulate such drops.

This reminds me a little of the threads from a while back complaining about the amp'd O users draining the loot pool to the detriment of the higher end players. Amps are nerfed - anyone notice the better loot yet?

Leave people the dream - MA don't leave em much else atm

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Well today is a perfect example of why this isn't entirely true. There have been no less than 3 near or full uber HOFs on exarosaurs in the last couple hours i've been on. You combine the good chance of a pretty damn good global on a mob that many players could kill naked with their eyes closed with the paucity of similar uber-but-not-ath hofs on higher mobs and it really does seem that there's nothing to aim for.

To sum up the situation for those who are keeping score:

Small mobs (mobs that don't always loot):

• tt return ~killing cost
• Lots of material drops with markup
• Better skillgains/ped due to kill bonus
• Globals
• Uber drops
• Uber HOFs

Big mobs (mobs that do always loot):

• tt return << killing cost
• Lots of armor decay
• Globals
• Uber drops
• Ultra-rare chance of ATH

of looting an eon helmet or shadow gloves worth thousands and thousands of peds, why would anyone want to use a massive blp killing machine to take down a despletor or other always-loot mob that gives a very low average return with the (also slim) hope of looting a similar uber item?

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The hope of looting uber equipment from uber mobs is slim, but I think massively greater than from an argo or molisk.

The chance of looting shadow from an argo isn't slim, it's nearly impossible. People hunt these mobs all day every day for years and 99.9999% never got anything.

Whereas people who hunt aurli ect all day every day for years I am sure would get an uber item eventually. Problem is most ppl do it for a few days.

I am sure the ubers players, who hunt ubers mobs constistantly have looted either an uber ath in loot or an uber item.

This can't be said of the average 99.9% of hunter of normal mobs in this game.

I think the game is well balanced.

The higher end aurli seem to drop shadow more often than the weak because the ubers hunt them in bigger numbers. I am sure a ambu provider has more chance of dropping adj fap than a young it's just not many are hunted.

A longu prowler provided an imp mk2, not a young.

Just because the odd young drops an uber item I think ppl go overboard with it. When it comes to ambu nobody is capable of trying the bigger ones.

Bump for more votes because it's so close.

zeebee, you state that "you're sure" about a lot of things i don't think anyone without a direct line to Marco and NDAs can be sure about. Perhaps you'd like to clarify why you believe the things and statistics to be sure, because i really don't agree with most of what you posted; at least, not as statements of fact instead of opinion. Yes, i'd like to believe that's the way it works, but i have seen no evidence to support it and my experience with looting more common items also leads me to doubt it: to loot an item from a mob, you need to kill lots of them and wait for a mini during the right time period. Whether it's a guardian or a young you're killing when you get the mini, doesn't really make a lot of difference; however, with the smaller ones you can kill more faster and cheaper which actually increases your chances.

Chilly said:

Exa's drop some decent items for low to mid lvl hunters that would hunt at that mob lvl. But there are no really good item drops (the best looks like Vigi Helmet M).

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Actually, it's VATs, which makes an uber item possible on exas (see Skippie's sweating uber, for example).

I understand your point about the markup on materials, the issue i was trying to make at the beginning is that regardless you always do better getting those materials on small versions of the mob because they can drop relatively more of the materials per kill (eg 4 molisk teeth from a young vs. 8? tops from the biggest, baddest molisk mofo with 10x the hp). So again, disincentive to hunt big.

Thanks for your comments.

I think small-ER mobs should be allowed to drop higher lvl items like angel...but of course the chance of it dropping should be less than higher level mobs..

Which it may be, the pieces don't exactly drop often enough to do a detailed study.


And those exarosaurs are vicious!!!

Stalkers have 220hp and 41 damage!!!

Hehehe

Seriously though, if you compare it to an atrax young, the young has 280 hp and 37 points of damage, or a mourner old which has 240 hp and 45 damage.

Dunno how those mobs loot tho...

Doer said:

Actually, it's VATs, which makes an uber item possible on exas (see Skippie's sweating uber, for example).

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VAT was TT food not so long ago. Thats what my post was about.
I know my idea are hard to follow but , most of things saw ass uber are only average item or shit , its just drop too rarely.
Beside vigi and mk2 nothing drop enought on regular basis.Evrything got an uber statue , and that unbalance the game , only because its not more a game but an universe where designer do evrything to make player get "virtual" profit.
Most people keep playing because their stuff raese in price.

Problem is not is low mob loot that or is hight loot this , problem is the constant virtual profit MA whant all player do always... the always win because evrything get rare make the game less fun imho...

But well , its MA business , they know best , let them do what they wish , and adapt.

SHould Low mobs drop good items?

I just wish mobs would drop items. End of.

I think mobs drops should be of a linear kind of progression.
That when you hunt easy mobs you shold be able to have a good chance of looting items (armor, weapons, fap) that will allow you to hunt harder mobs.
That It should be possable to work your way up from snable to daspletor by loot drops alone.
That the drops of these items should be frequent enough to allow an average player a reasonable chance of looting those items if they kill the appropriate level of mob.
It seems to kinda work this way at least for the lower levels , but not so much for the higher levels.

IT seems very easy to loot goblin or pixie as well as fap 5's and other low weapons from snables, exaros and diaks. but it seems severely more difficult to loot the mid range stuff off of mid range mobs and an order of magnitude more difficult to loot the high end goodies from high end mobs

this is all without even touching the special class of items that are adjusted, improved or modified.

It seems like it is nearly impossable to "Grind" your way to the top without having to outlay a fortune in equipment as you progress upwards.
You almost always have to spend alot of money that can otherwise be used for skilling and hunting in order to get the equipment you need to hunt.
It seems decent items just dont drop enough at the middle to high levels to allow an average hunter a decent chance to progress.
This is especially so fo the unlimited items, but also for even the limited items.

however a shadow or angel shoud not ever drop from snablesnots.
Yet you should also never need to have angel or shadow to loot angel or shadow. same for good weapons like as-147, ml-35 or ravenger series.
yet one should need shadow or angel to be able to loot say supremacy.
you should be able to use an opalo, fap5 andno armor to loot some pixie or goblin.
then use goblin or pixie to be able to loot a better gun, fap and knight or shogun.
that set should allow you to loot an even better gun, fap and say nemesis.
That set should allow you to get even better stuff including angel.
then you shold be able to use angel to get shadow and then shadow to get supremacy.

Good stuff however has in the past looted from fairlu low levle or somewhat easy mobs.
Like angel parts off of molisk or calamusoids.
Or jungle stalkers and ml-35s off of merps and atrax.
The only problem is that kinda stuff loot often enough to allow someone a decent change of getting one to help them progress.

Yes. In the USA we have scratch off lotto tickets... The dollar tickets pay huge prizes too just way less of a chance of getting one. Your chances of that "Big Prize" are alwyas there no matter how much you spend. BUT Theres a better % chance of you winning on a more expensive ticket but you spend more. Same thing goes here. It should be possible to get Good items from even the weakest of mobs but the chance of that should be bigger as the mob gets harder.

whodi said:

Yes. In the USA we have scratch off lotto tickets... The dollar tickets pay huge prizes too just way less of a chance of getting one. Your chances of that "Big Prize" are alwyas there no matter how much you spend. BUT Theres a better % chance of you winning on a more expensive ticket but you spend more. Same thing goes here. It should be possible to get Good items from even the weakest of mobs but the chance of that should be bigger as the mob gets harder.

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Agreed

While low end mobs should have a chance - % drop rate should IMO be relative to mob difficulty. So better mob better chance.

I voted yes. I didn't put any thought into it, and don't plan to. I voted yes because of my personal situation. My ava will be a year old next month and after many many hours of playing, i have never had a loot bigger than 750 ped. And i only got that after lots and lots of losses, so it mainly got used to repair items that hadn't been fully repaired in months. I'm not saying i would like to see a noob in pixie loot a mod Fap from an Exarosaur young, but, it would be nice for those of us that play constantly, and deposit regularly to OCCASIONALLY get something nice that we couldn't normally buy. I.E. after over 1k in deposits and thousands upon thousands of mobs killed, bombs and probes dropped i would think by now i could have looted a decent piece of armor or a nice gun. The best armor i've gotten in a loot was a piece of Vigi F (my avatar is male) and the best gun i've gotten was a Mk.I (which ain't saying much, but the TT value was good LOL). I wouldn't really call this a whiny post, because i'll still play everyday in hopes of the Uber Loot which is bound to come eventually, but, damn MA throw me a bone would ya? lol

To bad really good items dont drop anymore

And did't a resent VU info say something about rare items dropping more.....

All I know is I am yet to see an uber item from any small mob and I have been hunting things from exaro to young argos for half a year. And I never broke even on snats, daikibas or exaros-sweating was the only way to stay afloat. Most HOFs in the 24hr table are from big mobs. The best piece of loot I got from young snable female was an ESI and that happened only once.

So I don't know whether hogglos don't give enough loot but what I do know is:
-small mobs no longer give me any worthy skillups so I have to move on to bigger ones,
-I go broke every time I hunt Argos (2k rifle, using Breer 2M with 102 amp in goblin armor)-maybe I am just unlucky?,
-I scored only one global for 75 peds on cornu mature and these money instantly went to get a new Breer and ammo anyway.
-I can't afford the armor for big mobs, I cant yet use the big guns for the big mobs, so I am kind of stuck with small fry for now.

Do I have an insentive to hunt big mobs-hell yeah!
1. It is fun.
2. It is variety.
3. The chance of getting high value loot is way better (you just don't see many daikibas dropping 1ped+ of loot).

So I don't see much of a problem with a good item dropping from a small mob with a very small chance. For once, it gives everybody a chance to get this item without going broke-that's not necessarily bad. There are still lots of great items that come from big monsters. Do I need more insentive to hunt bigger guys-won't help me any at this time. If small guys can't drop good items anymore-this would only discourage me from playing further because that's the only chance I got now however small it may be.

Hi,

I voted "Yes" - yes, all mobs should be able to drop anything! This adds a lot of fun and incentive to the "game", and keeps ppl hunting.

For sure, Snables should't loot Angel gloves every other day - I could think of kinda division in items: "regular loot" and "Uber loot".

"Uber loot" would be - well, Uber items - Angel, Shadow, Mod/ Adj/ Imp stuff, Jungle Stalkers etc. Every mob should have a chance to drop it. Smaller mobs would have a smaller chance, so that maybe 10.000 Snable male youngs, 1.000 Exaro Doms, 100 Atrox Provider and 1 Hogglo young would have the same chance to drop one of these items. (weird numbers, I know, might use some finetuning ;-) )

"Regular loot" would be connected to specific mobs/ maturities. Kay-T had a great idea, + Rep for this:

Kay-T said:

[...]
you should be able to use an opalo, fap5 andno armor to loot some pixie or goblin.
then use goblin or pixie to be able to loot a better gun, fap and knight or shogun.
that set should allow you to loot an even better gun, fap and say nemesis.
That set should allow you to get even better stuff including angel.
then you shold be able to use angel to get shadow and then shadow to get supremacy. [...]

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This would be very nice - after all it's one of the best moments in EU if you're looting an item you actually want! And this comes way to rarely, I think. Item loots - I had even forgotten such things would exist, until yesterday when suddenly I found myself jumping of joy:



I'm hoping that all of us would have such a happiness more often - I hunted Atrax for way more then a year until I got this gun, and I slaughtered gazillions of them! I hunt a lot, and I recently stopped posting my globals here - no need to brag about every one, I think. But one is for sure: Getting this gun with a TT of 60 PED made me way more happy then any other global, even my 480+ PED one containing nothing of use, besides PED ...

MA, plz give us more item loots, and keep us dreaming of this one [insert your favorite mob/ maturity] dropping [insert your most wanted Uber item]!

Have fun!

Flexor said:

So I don't know whether hogglos don't give enough loot but what I do know is:
-small mobs no longer give me any worthy skillups so I have to move on to bigger ones,

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Incidentally, that point is a fallacy. You can get much better skills by grinding small mobs than taking down big ones because there is a kill bonus. More kill bonuses == faster skilling. I get 2-3x the rifle from a 200 ped hunt on my favorite small skilling mob than i do on ambus, allos, atrox, etc. There's no skill incentive to hunt big mobs.