Piracy: It's root causes.. and it's expression in the context of EU

[Max EJ]

why is this even an issue?

almost all mmorpg's have some sort of "lootable pvp", its a good thing, brings a whole new playerbase, not just the bored, rich, carebears and whiners.

Its just a GAME, not reall life, in reall life you couldnt walk arround with a bigass bazooka on your shoulder, drive your dune buggy through town like a bat outa-hell, or fly/land your aircraft anywhere you want to, you also would never in your right mind go out on a fishing trip to the Horn of Africa or any other pirate infested watters right? right.

Its just a freaking game, if you want to compare it to real life.... whats wrong with your headbrain?

• if you dont wanna be looted, dont bring loot.
• if you bring loot and you dont like high chance of being looted... pay the extra ped and get a warp (thats what they are there for).
• if you bring loot and you dont like the low chance of being looted on a MS... dont go to space?

if your crying about TT dmg to your vehicle....
let me go find a violin and call the whaaaaaambulance

You are totally right, all should memorize your points.

It seems people still complaining about space becasue of their lack of knowlage about Mother Ships and that you can pay less then 50 ped and be at other planet, safe and in less then 2 minutes.

To all those who complain, just check Normandies site and see that you can get to anywhere with all your loot.




About real-cash economy and that pkers steal real money, if you want to compare it to RL, then compare it to a casino or poker game where other people "steal" (win) your cash.

 

[Ty Williams]

why is this even an issue?

almost all mmorpg's have some sort of "lootable pvp", its a good thing, brings a whole new playerbase, not just the bored, rich, carebears and whiners.

Its just a GAME, not reall life, in reall life you couldnt walk arround with a bigass bazooka on your shoulder, drive your dune buggy through town like a bat outa-hell, or fly/land your aircraft anywhere you want to, you also would never in your right mind go out on a fishing trip to the Horn of Africa or any other pirate infested watters right? right.

Its just a freaking game, if you want to compare it to real life.... whats wrong with your headbrain?

• if you dont wanna be looted, dont bring loot.
• if you bring loot and you dont like high chance of being looted... pay the extra ped and get a warp (thats what they are there for).
• if you bring loot and you dont like the low chance of being looted on a MS... dont go to space?

if your crying about TT dmg to your vehicle....
let me go find a violin and call the whaaaaaambulance

Well Put.. PvP In Entropia Is Sttrickly For those Who Choose to Play it.. With Space Being PvP Lootable it Adds a Important Element To the "Economy" of Entropia Universe.. I Do not Like Pirates as much as the next person.. But i will not Deny that i wont Shoot a Plane or two down.. What Kinda Makes things worse.. is How People who Have Real Lives, Real Problems, and Real Cash.. Go out of there way to make a list of Pirates or a List of Entropian Villians and All that.. Its like People who all share the Universe are tryin to lay the Law Down, When Really, MA Can Be just as bad Pirates as we Are or could be.. Space Is Lootable.. and i have No Problem with that.. but that could be Bcuz im Building an Unstoppable Force Of EVIL SPACE Pirate (HaHAhAhaaAHhaA YEEEeeeaaaahh...)j/k i dont have the time for it.. YET

 

[Ty Williams]

Here are the flaws in your reasoning..... Real cash economy, theft of real assets, not just a game but real withdrawable cash

Some people just don't like pvp and do not wish to spend time in it, in project entropia you always had a choice.

.. dont go to space? --- that's not a choice.

but its all part of the "Play At Your Own Risk" Deal that we Agree to everytime we log into EU.. Even the Changes from old PE to EU, WTH are you really goin to do about it.. We Agree to All the Terms and Conditions To Play EU.. Then We Come here on Forum to Cry About it Simple.. If u have Assets here in Entropia... Then Do What you Must to Protect your Asset's Thats All it Is!! This is a Game.. Is it More?? If it is, Than Act like it!!

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

totally missing the point.

Don't be so hard to yourself!

the choice not to go to space is no choice at all. I got shot a lot already but that's all beside the point. the point is I CAN NOT AVOID LOOTABLE SPACE if i want to go to another planet. And then there's the timeloss. you get shot and you need to fly the whole damn 15 mins again, only to be shot again.

Here are your choices:
- bring loot or don't
- go on your own or bring friends
- use direct routes or indirect ones which are a lot safer but take longer
- book a safe flight on a Mothership like the Kronan
- stay on Caly if you can't be bothered with the above (which is what you want to do)

With your argument one could also say that there is NO CHOICE than to go into PVP4 íf you want to mine Blood Moss or hunt Mulaak'fs.

 

[humanwoman]

Comparisons with real-life crime miss the mark completely. Lootable PvP areas are places you enter knowing it is legal for someone else to try and loot you. It is a mutual consent competition; nothing more, nothing less. Many of us choose to avoid it, or travel carrying nothing lootable. Those who carry loot, know the risks.

Same as a game of poker, where all who enter do so with the aim to win the other players' money. Again, a mutual consent competition.

Gambling is gambling. Stealing is stealing. I'm surprised how many people can't see the difference.

Imagine you go out in real life and walk into the park, where you get robbed.

And the guy says:
"Well, you know, if you go out, you can be robbed or killed. If you don't want to be robbed, don't go out, it's kinda mutual agreement that we all follow, you knew the risks. And therefore, I'm not a thief and not a criminal. It's actually gambling and I'm an honest person who won your money in a competition. Be happy I didn't kill you."

Really?

Don't you think your "reasoning" doesn't make any sense?

This game should not endorse criminal activity as it does now.

If you play a pirate/PVP in a subscription MMO that's fine, that's a game.

Once you stole real money, you crossed the line and became a real thief and it's not a game anymore.

 

[Ty Williams]

Gambling is gambling. Stealing is stealing. I'm surprised how many people can't see the difference.

Imagine you go out IRL and walk in to the park, where you get robbed.

And the guy says: "Well, you know, if you go out, you can be robbed or killed. If you don't want to be robbed, don't go out, it's kinda mutual agreement that we all follow, you know the risks. And therefore, I'm not a thief and not a criminal and I shouldn't be punished at all. Be happy I didn't kill you."

Really?

Did you ever wonder why your "reasoning" doesn't make sense in real life?

This game should not endorse criminal activity as it does now.

If you play a pirate/PVP in a subscription MMO that's fine, that's a game.

Once you stole real money, you crossed the line and became a real thief and it's not a game anymore.

Ok Then What Is It??

And Why Are you Carryin that much Loot on you? If You Consider the fact that if u get killed your goin to Lose all Your "real Money"

Which Btw.. If MA Doesnt Fix the Withdraw Process FOR Everybody, then i wouldnt Take Suck Risk!! I See what your Sayin, and your Right about the idea... But What Kinda Transaction is an Individual Doing to make it more than a Game... Ok Fact.. Im From Jersey.. I know Alot Of People.. Righ(So He Says lol) But i Turn around and play EU And see you in Space, shoot you down(With No Legal Warning Beside the "PvPLootable" Warning) and you lose xxxxx Amount of Money Are you Goin to come to my Crib and get me!! For One you'll be breaking a number of Not Just National LAws for the US But also International Laws.. And the EULA And not including the friends i may have sittin outside my house .. Now EU Can Be USed for such Transactions but if thats what u do than Make some transactions to Protect your self.. Thats why Space is such a Big part of the EU Economy

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Gambling is gambling. Stealing is stealing. I'm surprised how many people can't see the difference.

Imagine you go out IRL and walk in to the park, where you get robbed.

And the guy says: "Well, you know, if you go out, you can be robbed or killed. If you don't want to be robbed, don't go out, it's kinda mutual agreement that we all follow, you know the risks. And therefore, I'm not a thief and not a criminal and I shouldn't be punished at all. Be happy I didn't kill you."

I dont think anyone here is saying that these arent pirates. They are. What I think people here are saying is that space seems pretty lawless because maybe that's exactly what it is.

Really?

Did you ever wonder why your "reasoning" doesn't make sense in real life?

This game should not endorse criminal activity as it does now.

If you play a pirate/PVP in a subscription MMO that's fine, that's a game.

Once you stole real money, you crossed the line and became a real thief and it's not a game anymore.

Sure it is. Because here's where your reasoning is critically flawed. This is a video game. You have a choice on how you participate, and you are given all the possible outcomes. Furthermore, your funds are voluntarily deposited, and what you carry with you is not for your survival, but for your entertainment and luxury.

In short: This is not real life.

If you walk out in a park and get mugged that's real life and there is real danger involved. You could make the wrong choice and then stop breathing. No magic revive terminal. No second chances. Here the only danger is that your spoiled ass might have to deposit a little bit sooner than otherwise.

http://first-world-problems.com/

 

[mastermesh]

No lawsuits can stop the lootable pvp as it is right now... However, they might be able to do something about false advertising...

Even though the website ad from Rocktropia has been reworded, it may have caused some to think that there really was UNLIMITED FREE ACCESS to Rocktropia AND many other virtual worlds...

http://www.eu-chronicle.com/showthread.php?8120-VU11-AND-ROCKTROPIA&p=41447#post41447

That little false ad is only one of many false promises that's been made by MA and/or the PPs over the years... It would be interesting to see what would happen if anyone really did try to go after them with for false advertising suits... especially since the whole Calypso Land Deed sale is suppossed to result in more advertising in the near future, which may very well lead to even more false promises and false advertising if MA and the PPs are not really careful.

 

[Ty Williams]

I dont think anyone here is saying that these arent pirates. They are. What I think people here are saying is that space seems pretty lawless because maybe that's exactly what it is.



Sure it is. Because here's where your reasoning is critically flawed. This is a video game. You have a choice on how you participate, and you are given all the possible outcomes. Furthermore, your funds are voluntarily deposited, and what you carry with you is not for your survival, but for your entertainment and luxury.

In short: This is not real life.

If you walk out in a park and get mugged that's real life and there is real danger involved. You could make the wrong choice and then stop breathing. No magic revive terminal. No second chances. Here the only danger is that your spoiled ass might have to deposit a little bit sooner than otherwise.

http://first-world-problems.com/

Exactly... And Even if there was some sort of Space Patrol or Protectorz of some sort.. THEY WOULD BE PIRATES TOO..

 

[Magyar_Republic]

... off topic post...

That ad isnt false. All the worlds are in fact free to access. You just have to pick which world you would like to access free first, and now, with the advent of space, stick out your thumb and wait for a ride. I've only paid for travel to a planet once. Ive flown planet to planet almost 100 times now, and not in my own plane. I dont actually own any sort of space transit.

Free. Not a lie.

By the way:

 

[MissAlannahJame]

This debate is going in circles and getting nowhere. Both sides have some good points and bad points but they're getting lost in the insults and far off examples.

For me, EU is a game that just happens to have a RCE, for some, EU is a RCE that just happens to be a game. In my opinion, this is where the problem lies. Rather than throw insults at one another, perhaps it would be better to take a few steps back and think about how you would feel were you on the other side of things. For those who enjoy PVP/Game piracy, think about how you would feel if your stuff was looted. For those who don't like PVP/Game piracy, think about how you would feel if you took part in a sanctioned aspect of the game only to be villainised.

I have yet to take part in active PVP/Game piracy but I am not against it. What I dislike though, is the attitude from some people in the community. If you feel that you do not wish to buy from me because of the above then that is fine, what isn't fine, is likening me to someone trolling the seas and kidnapping children. Nor is it fine to say that because I am female, I don't like PVP. In my view (which you have every right to disagree with) right and wrong are defined by the enviroment we are in, different places have different laws. In the real world I do not run around shooting small animals and taking their skins. In the real world, I would not shoot my neighbours and declare their home now mine. This is not the real world. Yes real money is involved but this world has it's own 'laws' and they say that it is ok to shoot a person and loot them.

For those who truely feel that PVP/Game piracy is theft then rather than insulting those who do it, why not send an email/support ticket/letter to MA with a well reasoned argument.

 

[MissAlannahJame]

*damn double post *

 

[Ty Williams]

This debate is going in circles and getting nowhere. Both sides have some good points and bad points but they're getting lost in the insults and far off examples.

For me, EU is a game that just happens to have a RCE, for some, EU is a RCE that just happens to be a game. In my opinion, this is where the problem lies. Rather than through insults at one another, perhaps it would be better to take a few steps back and think about how you would feel were you on the other side of things. For those who enjoy PVP/Game piracy, think about how you would feel if your stuff was looted. For those who don't like PVP/Game piracy, think about how you would feel if you took part in a sanctioned aspect of the game only to be villainised.

I have yet to take part in active PVP/Game piracy but I am not against it. What I dislike though, is the attitude from some people in the community. If you feel that you do not wish to buy from me because of the above then that is fine, what isn't fine, is likening me to someone trolling the seas and kinapping children. Nor is it fine to say that because I am female, I don't like PVP. In my view (which you have every right to disagree with) right and wrong are defined by the enviroment we are in, different places have different laws. In the real world I do not run around shooting small animals and taking their skins. In the real world, I would not shoot my neighbours and declare their home now mine. This is not the real world. Yes real money is involved but this world has it's own 'laws' and they say that it is ok to shoot a person and loot them.

For those who truely feel that PVP/Game piracy is theft then rather than insulting those who do it, why not send an email/support ticket/letter to MA with a well reasoned argument.

 

[Jimmy B]

Gambling is gambling. Stealing is stealing. I'm surprised how many people can't see the difference.

Imagine you go out in real life and walk into the park, where you get robbed.

And the guy says:
"Well, you know, if you go out, you can be robbed or killed. If you don't want to be robbed, don't go out, it's kinda mutual agreement that we all follow, you knew the risks. And therefore, I'm not a thief and not a criminal. It's actually gambling and I'm an honest person who won your money in a competition. Be happy I didn't kill you."

Really?

Don't you think your "reasoning" doesn't make any sense?

This game should not endorse criminal activity as it does now.

If you play a pirate/PVP in a subscription MMO that's fine, that's a game.

Once you stole real money, you crossed the line and became a real thief and it's not a game anymore.

No, you still miss the point. In real-life, if you walk in the park it is understood that it is illegal for someone to rob or kill you. If you go into PvP in EU it is understood that it is acceptable for someone to loot you. This is the whole point of PvP areas. By entering PvP with loot you are engaging in a competition, where you can legally loot other people and other people can legally loot you. The fact that not many people choose to take the risk means minerals and mobs there can have higher markup as they are rarely mined and hunted, which adds further incentive to enter and excitement to the competition.

Sorry, but likening PvP to RL crime is completely ludicrous, and I would imagine the comparison is quite offensive to anyone who has been a victim of the RL crimes you compare these game activities to.

I'm out, this topic isn't worthy of further discussion.

 

[lyosha]

Sorry, but likening PvP to RL crime is completely ludicrous, and I would imagine the comparison is quite offensive to anyone who has been a victim of the RL crimes you compare these game activities to.

well said

My brother was mugged and shot in RL(hes still alive thank god), he was shot and robbed by a real criminal, to compare somebody like that to a pirate in a video game where you are WARNED that you are in a lootable area.... that is just rediculous.

There are real pirates out @ sea by Africa and India, those are reall criminals, they will kidnap your family, hold them for ransom, etc.

This is just a freakin game, stop comparing them to real criminals and offending people who have actually delt with reall criminals. =)

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

Once you stole real money, you crossed the line and became a real thief and it's not a game anymore.

Alright, now if you get looted in PvP4 or in Space, please go to the police and tell them about it, explain exactly what happened and see if they help you or laugh their asses off

 

[Ty Williams]

Alright, now if you get looted in PvP4 or in Space, please go to the police and tell them about it, explain exactly what happened and see if they help you or laugh their asses off

AND... YouTube It Please!!! I Would love a Good Laugh, Plus You May Go Viral

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

AND... YouTube It Please!!! I Would love a Good Laugh, Plus You May Go Viral

"What do you mean you got shot and killed?"
"I got a screenshot to prove it!"
"A what shot?"

 

[Spawn]

Alright, now if you get looted in PvP4 or in Space, please go to the police and tell them about it, explain exactly what happened and see if they help you or laugh their asses off

They did nothing when my account got hacked and thousands of peds got stolen.. so they won't act on this either. But I did report it anyway.. they made a note

 

[ilike money]

dont like it dont leave planets. Its just like pvp 3 and 4 so calm down. Its pvp but lootable and you dont have to go in those zones. If you must leave planet take an MS

 

[GoNi]

Only problem with lootable Space is, that this eliminates the option of interplanetary trade with stackables.

It doesn´t elimineate interplanetary trade at all, as non-stackables can be transported without risk (not lootable).

This is bad as transfer/trade of goods (stackables) very likely would be a good thing for each planets economy.

For those telling me a mothership is save, LOL.
Even if its 0.01% to get looted using a MS service, it would be still to high risk for big stakes trader with 100k+ PED value in stackables.

Get the point?

BTW, once the MS crews notice, that there is a high stakes trader onboard, is it still save at this MS?

Edit:
@OP: genes are not responsible for criminal behaviour, nor is it the influence off violent games/videos/musik.
Criminals normally come out of bad enviroment.
Very often there are big mistakes made in their education.
Another thing, becoming a victim of a crime, can lead to becoming a criminal yourself.
That happens very very often!

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

For those telling me a mothership is save, LOL.
Even if its 0.01% to get looted using a MS service, it would be still to high risk for big stakes trader with 100k+ PED value in stackables.

Since you log out when you're still docked at the space station where you start your journey and you log back in when you have safely docked at the destination the risk is not 0.01%. It is 0%. And no, so far this has not been classified as an exploit by MA. In fact, they deleted a statement saying that.

Get the point?

Well?

BTW, once the MS crews notice, that there is a high stakes trader onboard, is it still save at this MS?

I can only speak for the Kronan on which I have served: Yes.

 

[Spawn]

And no, so far this has not been classified as an exploit by MA. In fact, they deleted a statement saying that.

Or they change their minds and simply close your account for exploiting. It's great that it works and I love it, but it's a way to circumvent how the system is designed.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

Or they change their minds and simply close your account for exploiting.

Not permanently without warning. Even Mary Jane only got a month or so and was allowed to keep what he gained through exploiting. IMHO (!) there is no risk of a permanent ban after MA even deleted the statement that it's considered an exploit.

but it's a way to circumvent how the system is designed.

On that we agree wholeheartedly!

There have been many great suggestions on how to plug this hole but MA seems to like it the way it is.

 

[melbossheart]

[/quote]Audrey Cheerful;2864498]Since you log out when you're still docked at the space station where you start your journey and you log back in when you have safely docked at the destination the risk is not 0.01%. It is 0%. And no, so far this has not been classified as an exploit by MA. In fact, they deleted a statement saying that.[/quote]


ok heres the risk then you can see for yourselfs that there is no risk when flying on the normandie mothership ..as

1 . you are summond aboard .... no risk
2 . it takes 7 seconds to warp from caly to next island.... is a pirate gonna wait in space for a mothership to come along er no and would you log out for 7 seconds no i dont think so ..

3 . the normandie then backs up to planet so as soon as you leave the hanger bay you get your 2ped landing warning or you can tp down to planet the choice is yours .
4 the normandie has never been shot down during a passenger run by a pirate ..

i wonder just how many of the people that are cryin about space being lootable have flown on a safe mothership... or is it just hearsay ...
ive been of both sides of the coin ive been shot down and looted and ive also shot people down and looted... and yes you say its real money at the end of the day the choice is yours .

at the end of the day this is a GAME. you have the choice to play or not ... depo or not ... if you dont like it play another game ..like farmtown

my2p worth
regards

 

[Ludvig|MindArk]

This is bad as transfer/trade of goods (stackables) very likely would be a good thing for each planets economy.

From how I have always seen it, the point is to have seperate planets with seperate economies that intersect via space... having nothing to hinder the movement (like lootable space) would make the entire game one big economy and then you may just as well have only one planet.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

From how I have always seen it, the point is to have seperate planets with seperate economies that intersect via space... having nothing to hinder the movement (like lootable space) would make the entire game one big economy and then you may just as well have only one planet.

This ^ exactly!




Edit: "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nighthawk again."

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

2 . it takes 7 seconds to warp from caly to next island.... is a pirate gonna wait in space for a mothership to come along er no and would you log out for 7 seconds no i dont think so ..

Mel, I am not sure if you agree or disagree with me with your long post but let me reply to the above: It is your CHOICE if you log out for 7 seconds or if you don't. If you want zero risk then log out. It's not just the 7 seconds but also the (theoretical) risk of warp mines.

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Spawn, as it's already been pointed out you can travel through space fast and safe.
Mother ship or privateer warps to the planet, then you can TP down to the planet. You do not enter lootable space at anytime.

 

[dr3w]

Only problem with lootable Space is, that this eliminates the option of interplanetary trade with stackables.

It doesn´t elimineate interplanetary trade at all, as non-stackables can be transported without risk (not lootable).

This is bad as transfer/trade of goods (stackables) very likely would be a good thing for each planets economy.

THIS IS GOOD.

Why you don't get such simple thing, eh? Exactly, when the stackable shit can be easily transported - it's BAD. BAD. BAD.

There is no difference in prices then, there no risk in transport, any nib can do that, thus, prices is equal (or ajusted in minutes everywhere) on each planet. You know, what is called? Stable market. Don't mistake it with HEALTHY, it's more close to flatline, dead - where TRADING (don't mistake with fucking reselling) almost isn't possible.

When stackables (read: primary ores/enmatters) IS in danger - there is much less flow, prices fluctuating everywhere, which giving nice opportunities for TRADING.

Balanced market - shit. Unbalanced - live, healthy, perspective.

And the main role of lootable space - this - unbalanced market. Not that because MA want to receive shitloads of whining supportcases, not because MA is greedy of decay, or what is there some conspirology shit can be placed - MA wants more activity.

Do you think, those players, who invested in motherships from 50k till 100k - just rich idiots, who wants TEH C001 VEHICLEZ? It's smart people, who can see much far beyond their nose!