Piracy: It's root causes.. and it's expression in the context of EU

[Ludvig|MindArk]

When stackables (read: primary ores/enmatters) IS in danger - there is much less flow, prices fluctuating everywhere, which giving nice opportunities for TRADING.

Agreed, if there was no risk the amount of trading would be very small... since there would be no need to bring anything since anyone could do it.

 

[melbossheart]

THIS IS GOOD.

Why you don't get such simple thing, eh? Exactly, when the stackable shit can be easily transported - it's BAD. BAD. BAD.

There is no difference in prices then, there no risk in transport, any nib can do that, thus, prices is equal (or ajusted in minutes everywhere) on each planet. You know, what is called? Stable market. Don't mistake it with HEALTHY, it's more close to flatline, dead - where TRADING (don't mistake with fucking reselling) almost isn't possible.

When stackables (read: primary ores/enmatters) IS in danger - there is much less flow, prices fluctuating everywhere, which giving nice opportunities for TRADING.

Balanced market - shit. Unbalanced - live, healthy, perspective.

And the main role of lootable space - this - unbalanced market. Not that because MA want to receive shitloads of whining supportcases, not because MA is greedy of decay, or what is there some conspirology shit can be placed - MA wants more activity.

Do you think, those players, who invested in motherships from 50k till 100k - just rich idiots, who wants TEH C001 VEHICLEZ? It's smart people, who can see much far beyond their nose!

as above nice post

 

[melbossheart]

Only problem with lootable Space is, that this eliminates the option of interplanetary trade with stackables.

It doesn´t elimineate interplanetary trade at all, as non-stackables can be transported without risk (not lootable).

This is bad as transfer/trade of goods (stackables) very likely would be a good thing for each planets economy.

For those telling me a mothership is save, LOL.
Even if its 0.01% to get looted using a MS service, it would be still to high risk for big stakes trader with 100k+ PED value in stackables.

Get the point?

BTW, once the MS crews notice, that there is a high stakes trader onboard, is it still save at this MS?

Edit:
@OP: genes are not responsible for criminal behaviour, nor is it the influence off violent games/videos/musik.
Criminals normally come out of bad enviroment.
Very often there are big mistakes made in their education.
Another thing, becoming a victim of a crime, can lead to becoming a criminal yourself.
That happens very very often!

in answer to your question anyone who crews the Normandie has sworn not to shoot any passenger or crew of the mothership.

and can tell you from being part of the crew no traveling passenger aboard the normandie has lost there stackables.. and john black knight prides his reputation on this fact. and i as well as many others would protect the normandie at all costs with our quad wings .

hope this answers your question

regards

 

[Thorns Rose]

THIS IS GOOD.

Why you don't get such simple thing, eh? Exactly, when the stackable shit can be easily transported - it's BAD. BAD. BAD.

There is no difference in prices then, there no risk in transport, any nib can do that, thus, prices is equal (or ajusted in minutes everywhere) on each planet. You know, what is called? Stable market. Don't mistake it with HEALTHY, it's more close to flatline, dead - where TRADING (don't mistake with fucking reselling) almost isn't possible.
When stackables (read: primary ores/enmatters) IS in danger - there is much less flow, prices fluctuating everywhere, which giving nice opportunities for TRADING.

Balanced market - shit. Unbalanced - live, healthy, perspective.

And the main role of lootable space - this - unbalanced market. Not that because MA want to receive shitloads of whining supportcases, not because MA is greedy of decay, or what is there some conspirology shit can be placed - MA wants more activity.

Do you think, those players, who invested in motherships from 50k till 100k - just rich idiots, who wants TEH C001 VEHICLEZ? It's smart people, who can see much far beyond their nose!

Ahhh the voice of reason!! Great post Mel too..Yes I agree whole heartedly Mel!!

FYI:That piracy in the genes thing is still making me laugh..OMG I willl have to throw out Halo Reach?...

 

[Infinity01]

Was very busy with Team KImmi MM so didnt' keep up with the thread...but while reading down found this... so here we go:

Oh yeah. Sure! Got some Land Deeds? (smile.jpg)

A criminal in real earns money by robbery.....put that money for investment ... a company flourish

------------> doesn't make the robbery legal.

back to investment. ........the criminal gains money after investment... spends some of it for charity (Bernie Madoff)... or pays income tax. and we all somehow linked to those taxed money from the criminal ( analogous to decay in piracy linked to ROI for CLD horlders)

-------------> doesn't make his criminal behavior legit.

Now, do you see where your logic stands

 

[Infinity01]

Edit:
@OP: genes are not responsible for criminal behaviour, nor is it the influence off violent games/videos/musik.
Criminals normally come out of bad enviroment.
Very often there are big mistakes made in their education.
Another thing, becoming a victim of a crime, can lead to becoming a criminal yourself.
That happens very very often!

Incase, you have missed it please read below!

FYI:That piracy in the genes thing is still making me laugh..OMG I willl have to throw out Halo Reach?...

You can laugh as much as you wish.. but the evidence gathered through research can be nullified only with better evidence against it... and not by laughing...

Now i'll get to the origin of criminal or antisocial behavior: the following is a summary of many studies

Criminal behavior has always been a focus for psychologists due to the age old
debate between nature and nurture. Is it the responsibility of an individual's
genetic makeup that makes them a criminal or is it the environment in which they
are raised that determines their outcome? Research has been conducted regarding
this debate which has resulted in a conclusion that both genes and environment
do play a role in the criminality of an individual. This evidence has been
generated from a number of twin, family, and adoption studies as well as
laboratory experiments. Furthermore, the research has stated that it is more
often an interaction between genes and the environment that predicts criminal
behavior. Having a genetic predisposition for criminal behavior does not
determine the actions of an individual, but if they are exposed to the right
environment, then their chances are greater for engaging in criminal or
anti-social behavior. Therefore, this paper will examine the different functions
that genetics and the environment play in the criminal behavior of individuals.

Having said that. laughing is a good exercise.. and hence best medicine... so keep laughing

 

[dr3w]

Now, do you see where your logic stands

As soon as you "logic" dictates you "not keep with thread (TL;DR)", "MU should be removed\decreased", and much more brilliant ideas:

Keep away from me, please.

 

[Few Scars]

I haven't read the entire thread but I have been advised why MindArk has made space the way it is and is allowing pirates to get away with their activities.

It appears that all planet partners have to meet their own native population goals for development. All PPs have been effectively isolated to allow their own native populations grow and develop their own economies. It is still possible to travel between planets, but it has been made very difficult due to the lack of warp drives and ships. Pirates also act as an inhibitor to travel with or without goods.

Once the Planet Partners have a critical mass of native players, I expect there will be an overhaul of space and relaxation of PvP. I guess we just have to be patient, while the PPs develop partially isolated in the same fashion Calypso did in the early years.

 

[Dan59]

So long as traveler to another planet is geting shoot by pirates or in some cases by soc sponsored from PP - traveler shud know that he is doing something bad and so he is punished ( shooted and robbed ) for that.
Yes, we are not wellcome on other planets, PP dont want us there.

Space - like known always empty PVP4 is for masohists.
Is for ppl who like to be killed and robbed so much that are prepared to pay for that.
To enjoy to be murdered and robed one need to deposit buy vtol or quad, truster, oil and ofc some stackables.
Then need to fly enought long that pirate can find him. Best effect wud be by hunting space horrors to loose some additional peds by the way and generate more stackables for pirates.

But that is wrong.

Instead of all investments on vehicle and resources and a lot time lost before geting killed and robed one cud simply pm a pirate and invite him to kill him in ring on Caly.
In this way one still have pleasure to be killed but no need to loose so much time for that.
Simply find first pirate on planet and give him your peds instead to buy quad and resources - is much faster.
And wud be nice if you preanunce a date to a pirate when you will give him your peds - it will be much easier for him to calculate how much to withdrawall this month.
Wud be nice also to give some peds at same time to MS owners to help them get back money for owerpriced MS.

So - space for exploring, hunting and traveling do not exist.
Other planets do not exist - you are not wellcome.
EU is not universe - just some different games with same client.
Free market do not exist - except for pirates and their frends ( resellers ) wich will form monopol.

But your pedcard exist.
Vote with your pedcard.

 

[GoNi]

Incase, you have missed it please read below!

I have read it and its nonsense.
Get someone out of best envirement with good education, out of his healthy world and throw him into a crimnal dictated ghetto.
Forced to live in bad enviroment he sooner or later will adept and become criminal himself, doesn´t need a genome, its simple human nature. Called instinct to survive!
If you say its genome linked then, every human got the gen, speak there is no difference.
All is done by the enviroment.

 

[Infinity01]

So - space for exploring, hunting and traveling do not exist. ...........as an individual player
Other planets do not exist - you are not wellcome. ................the reason for lootable space is to isolate other planets , as put forward by some
EU is not universe - just some different games with same client.
Free market do not exist - except for pirates and their frends ( resellers ) wich will form monopol.

But your pedcard exist.
Vote with your pedcard.

Well, put...... ty

 

[Infinity01]

sorry, double post!

 

[GoNi]

From how I have always seen it, the point is to have seperate planets with seperate economies that intersect via space... having nothing to hinder the movement (like lootable space) would make the entire game one big economy and then you may just as well have only one planet.

Doesn´t need to have lootable space to have seperated markets.

We had something like seperated market CND/Calypso pre VU10.

No storage at CND, transportation fee for auctions placed at CND to Calypso buyers.

Pilots had a good business transporting people between this two markets.

Traders could buy ores/enmatters at lower price than at Calypso, and could make a profit from transporting the goods to Calypso and selling there.

The costs of flights was higher than todays costs to fly to another planet.
This fact forced traders to buy bigger stacks at CND to get into profit after paying the pilots for transportation.

It worked, without lootable PVP.

Same would work with seperated planeteconomy!
We already have seperated storage.
We already have seperated auctions.

We would need, seperated auction history for each planet!
We would need drasticaly higher cost to fly planet to planet.

Higher cost to fly would force traders to fly with bigger stacks to get into profit or place at higher price at destination planet.
Not an option for every low cost noob miner/hunter, as the return out of a 50-100 PED run, can´t make them the profit needed to cover the flight costs.

As said, I am not against PvP nor against lootable PvP, but I would still prefer some safe routes that could be used at much higher costs to fly there.

Actually the lootable space does more bad for eachs planet economy than it is good to keep markets seperated.

Use of MS service may be an option, but hell no MS is save from beeing looted. A well organiced pirate gang, surely can take down every mothership in no time. That it didn´t happen yet, says not that it is not possible. It may happen sooner or later.

 

[dr3w]

All is done by the enviroment.

The fields are irrigated with shit for a better crop.
One of the most economically stable countries in the world - Sweden - is a world champion in amount of suicides.
Most skilled player in EU - have very narrow vision.

Environment.

 

[remontoire]

Sorry, but likening PvP to RL crime is completely ludicrous, and I would imagine the comparison is quite offensive to anyone who has been a victim of the RL crimes you compare these game activities to.

I have been mugged in RL (inc where violence was involved), I have also been beaten up and then my carried possessions taken because I was in the wrong place when political tensions were running high. A small difference maybe, but it is actually different. I have also been "shot down" in my Quad in space, both when carrying and not carrying stackables.

The experience in being killed and looted in EU ... the experience simply does not compare. In EU, you just revive. There is no actual damage to your avatar. Your stamina and strength cores do not reset to 1 until you are healed (something that takes time), and there is no chance of permanent disability. Loss of property is real, but there are no cases where you are forced to take that risk.

So as far as I am concerned - everybody worried about "piracy" should just take a warp flight when visiting other planets and bring revenue to privateer / mothership owners. This is a much better arrangement than making space be selectively pvp but making only warp drive enabled privateers and motherships be capable of traveling to other planets that would certainly happen otherwise. It will still also be cheaper than interplanetary teleporters used to be.

Oh, and this does not mean I condone space pirates - but that is not really relevant to this discussion at all.

 

[lyosha]

I have been mugged in RL (inc where violence was involved), I have also been beaten up and then my carried possessions taken because I was in the wrong place when political tensions were running high. A small difference maybe, but it is actually different. I have also been "shot down" in my Quad in space, both when carrying and not carrying stackables.

The experience in being killed and looted in EU ... the experience simply does not compare. In EU, you just revive. There is no actual damage to your avatar. Your stamina and strength cores do not reset to 1 until you are healed (something that takes time), and there is no chance of permanent disability. Loss of property is real, but there are no cases where you are forced to take that risk.

So as far as I am concerned - everybody worried about "piracy" should just take a warp flight when visiting other planets and bring revenue to privateer / mothership owners. This is a much better arrangement than making space be selectively pvp but making only warp drive enabled privateers and motherships be capable of traveling to other planets that would certainly happen otherwise. It will still also be cheaper than interplanetary teleporters used to be.

Oh, and this does not mean I condone space pirates - but that is not really relevant to this discussion at all.

Well said.

If people are really comparing this video game pirate stuff to real life.... I think they dont know what LIFE is, maybe try working on getting one so that they know the difference between pixels and the real world. =)

 

[remontoire]

We would need, seperated auction history for each planet!
We would need drasticaly higher cost to fly planet to planet.

Higher cost to fly would force traders to fly with bigger stacks to get into profit or place at higher price at destination planet.
Not an option for every low cost noob miner/hunter, as the return out of a 50-100 PED run, can´t make them the profit needed to cover the flight costs.

But we have warp drives for this, no?

 

[Dan59]

Narrow vision..
Pixels..

For those who dont know it - Project Entropia had blood in game.
It was removed.

Whatewer we use , pixels ..., narrow vision or some realy deep shit, anything cud be wellcome to convince MA to do something.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

Narrow vision..
Pixels..

For those who dont know it - Project Entropia had blood in game.
It was removed.

Whatewer we use , pixels ..., narrow vision or some realy deep shit, anything cud be wellcome to convince MA to do something.

That's a point of view you and some other people have. A point of view myself and some other people have is this:

We dont want MA to do anything about lootable space.

I respect your viewpoint, but I dont believe it should be taken for granted that MA must do something. Many people think toning down the consequences for space travel is simply unnecessary handholding, and that the system as it exists now offers great reward for those who know their way through it. In that regard it's just like the rest of EU. The game rewards people who tough it out, and figure out a way to work well within whatever niche they can successfully adapt to.

 

[Spawn]

We dont want MA to do anything about lootable space.

I dont want that either. I just want people who boast here about shooting down and looting other people to think about what it will do for their reputation in eu. Think rockstars

 

[Magyar_Republic]

I dont want that either. I just want people who boast here about shooting down and looting other people to think about what it will do for their reputation in eu. Think rockstars

Meh, maybe they dont really care about their reputation in the regular player crowd, be they traders or otherwise. Maybe their concern is reputation in the PvP gamer crowd. There's actually a very big group of people involved in this sort of thing outside EU. I've been a cruiser in those circles for many years. They may find EU interesting if they can be shown that the game is fun and for minimum cost you can log on and 'own the snot out of a bunch of crying scrubs.'

I remember when I used to play AC's PvP server, people would drop items with a very high street value (ebay) and ask for them back after I killed them and looted a particular item of value. Often I didnt care about the value. So I would tell them "sure, your item is back on your corpse."

They'd come over and open it only to find that indeed their item was on their corpse.... in salvaged raw materials. 2 laughs for the price of one.

 

[melbossheart]

ummm looks from the post removals people wernt thinking fluffy bunnys

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

ummm looks from the post removals people wernt thinking fluffy bunnys

Farmer smurf wasn't being very smurfy, something about a drive by shooting on MA.

 

[GoNi]

Well Farmer Smurf banned as expected and how told by Burnsey in the also deleted reply

 

[Aeris_is_back]

Now i'll get to the origin of criminal or antisocial behavio[/B]

you are correct pirating is the above but, this is still a video game and not the real world of which that quote reflects.

I can then make the same argument that sending somebody out of pvp 1, 2, 3, 4, on a beam of light is also just, as, bad, because shooting somebody in real life is Murder! oh wait no its not... its still just a damn game and not the real world.

But wait Darcy its real money!
Yes that you choose to take in to an area of a video game that allows other players to take it from you.

Everybody gets greedy and wants to collect the mu from the Caly AH, so what about the start up planets with no real economy I don't hear them crying because everybody is taking everything away to sell on caly. the only exception to this is CP and FOMA.

 

[.Stagger]

I can then make the same argument that sending somebody out of pvp 1, 2, 3, 4, on a beam of light is also just, as, bad, because shooting somebody in real life is Murder! oh wait no its not... its still just a damn game and not the real world.

But wait Darcy its real money!
Yes that you choose to take in to an area of a video game that allows other players to take it from you.

made some slight adjustments, and just wanted to say:
"YES!!!, thank god not all people in this game have lost their mind!!"

 

[Nor Alien]

made some slight adjustments, and just wanted to say:
"YES!!!, thank god not all people in this game have lost their mind!!"

I have but still agree!! My mind that is...

 

[Infinity01]

"YES!!!, thank god not all people in this game have lost their mind!!"

"YES!!!, thank god, just like in real, not all people, infact majority, in this game have lost their mind!! ... and therefore don't like piracy "

 

[STYRM]

"YES!!!, thank god, just like in real, not all people, infact majority, in this game have lost their mind!! ... and therefore don't like piracy "

dont you mean the majority who actually saw your poll about it?

 

[Steinmeyer]

Lootable pvp/piracy creates very interesting player driven dynamic without really harming those that wish to stay out of it. I cant think of any argument against it.