Piracy: It's root causes.. and it's expression in the context of EU

[humanwoman]

Well, it's pretty simple:

People who steal money or other real valuables from others are thieves. Theft is a serious crime and against the law.

If you commit a theft IRL, you should be caught and sent to prison.

In this video game MindArk endorses such criminal activity and allows people who like and enjoy stealing from others, do so and get away with it.

However, this doesn't change anything in regards to the personality of whoever does it, if you think it's acceptable to steal real money and valuables from other people and you do it, you are a thief, a criminal, and you should be treated as such, without any discount, regardless of the particular way you found to steal it: snatching wallets in the crowd or using some 3D model in a video game.

 

[Nor Alien]

Space = pvp lootable = enter at your own risk!! Any other interpretation is just as silly as two bald men fighting over a comb!!

Not sure why people think they are entitled to safe and easy passage to other planets?? Boggles the mind!
Maybe someone here can explain this to me?! And maybe someone here can explain it better as to why space is like this? I know why, but when I tried to explain this once before in another thread about the same thing, people still didn't get it!! Could be the way I explained it??!!

 

[Infinity01]

As I've stated in my OP, the expression of a behavior is multifactorial.

Broadly, it can be categorized as Genetic, Developmental/upbringing (hardware (brain) change during early stages of development, and finally environment at the point of final expression (i.e., lawlessness for example the pirates of eastern coast of Africa, or culture of a society). In our context It's the gaming environment EU has provided us.

If you have difficulty in understanding this..... Ask this question in a different way!

Why many of us (infact might be the majority) do not like piracy in space? What is it that makes us stay away from this behavior?

Someone suggested earlier in a different thread... that some of us dont' like PVP coz we dont' have balls..
Well, to be honest, balls might have some link to it..

Overwhelming majority of the women, very highly skilled, do not engage in those behavior... and dont like it be it in pvp or space piracy.

To understand this, at a very simplistic level, I'll take you to the hunter/gatherer stage..
A male (as opposed to his female partner coz of physical strength) had to aggressively compete (by whatever means) with other males for food and shelter for his own family. On the other hand a female had to be more equitable to her offspring.
So, just one physical trait ( in this case physical strength) could lead to the expression of different behavioral trait. Again this is a very simplistic view of a very complex situation. I'm just trying to explain how balls might matter as to the behavioral expression even in EU... and balls are genetic indeed .

Enjoy EU.. whatever way you like it... After all it's a game.

Honestly, I want the presence of PVP, and piracy in EU. I was never against it.. I just want it on a way that those of us who don't like it have the means of avoiding it.

Probably, MS with warp drive capability, is the way forward. But I've to say it again..The implementation of space in EU has been faulty, erode the enthusiasm of majority of players, and has not helped EU in expanding it's player base.

 

[Infinity01]

Not sure why people think they are entitled to safe and easy passage to other planets?? Boggles the mind!

I've never said space travel to be easy. It should be difficult, complex, time consuming (to some extent if someone is seeking a cheaper route), and more costly. Only then it'd make sense. Possibly it should never be a TP.

There are many ways to implement those things.... and piracy is one of many! Many of us dont' like piracy... and it has been forced on us.

Don't tell me "don't go to space or any other planets".....that'd be a wrong approach!
We are in EU. Calyso is one of many planets... and we are travellars...to explore new places, new things, new ideas are deeply rooted in our nature!

Space = pvp lootable = enter at your own risk!! Any other interpretation is just as silly as two bald men fighting over a comb!!

Please read my previous post again ...........and take your time while you do a lot of this " "

 

[Corey 'Greyfox']

Well, it's pretty simple:

People who steal money or other real valuables from others are thieves. Theft is a serious crime and against the law.

If you commit a theft IRL, you should be caught and sent to prison.

In this video game MindArk endorses such criminal activity and allows people who like and enjoy stealing from others, do so and get away with it.

However, this doesn't change anything in regards to the personality of whoever does it, if you think it's acceptable to steal real money and valuables from other people and you do it, you are a thief, a criminal, and you should be treated as such, without any discount, regardless of the particular way you found to steal it: snatching wallets in the crowd or using some 3D model in a video game.

It's not stealing, it's gambling.
A pirate stakes their ammo cost +decay cost+fuel cost.
Anyone else stakes their loot+decay+ammo(if they defend themselves).
The pirate bets that they can find and defeat people staking more then themselves.
Anyone else stakes that they can avoid or defeat any pirates.
Remember, alot of people are smart and do not travel with loots, or travel in groups when they do. A pirate can easily spend 500 ped before finding someone staking their loot, and even then their is no way to tell if that loot will cover the loss.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

Well, it's pretty simple:

People who steal money or other real valuables from others are thieves. Theft is a serious crime and against the law.

If you commit a theft IRL, you should be caught and sent to prison.

In this video game MindArk endorses such criminal activity and allows people who like and enjoy stealing from others, do so and get away with it.

Very interesting point of view! By this definition the winner in a game of poker is a thief and the person who runs the table endorses criminal activity and allows people who like and enjoy stealing from others (playing poker) to do so and get away with it.



Edit: Meh, Greyfox already explained it. I should read the thread completely before replying.

 

[Alainax]

Ah Infinity, you truely live up to your name, as you archaic nonsensical pop psychology proposals seems as if they really do go on into infinity....

As I've stated in my OP, the expression of a behavior is multifactorial.
Broadly, it can be categorized as Genetic,Developmental/upbringing (hardware (brain) change during early stages of development, and finally environment at the point of final expression.
.

Nature vs Nurture debate, we get it!! It's been debated to its death (no pun intended).

Someone suggested earlier in a different thread... that some of us dont' like PVP coz we dont' have balls..
Well, to be honest, balls might have some linked to it..

Overwhelming majority of the women, very highly skilled, do not engage in those behavior... and dont like it be it in pvp or space piracy.
.

Oh here we go... Infinity, you know I have refrained from being baited into biting to your sexist and riduculous remarks, however your generalising sweeping statments have gone too far.

To understand this, at a very simplistic level, I'll take you to the hunter/gatherer stage..
A male (as opposed to his female partner coz of physical strength) had to aggressively compete (by whatever means) with other males for food and shelter for his own family. On the other hand a female had to be more equitable to her offspring.
So, just one physical trait ( in this case physical strength) could lead to the expression of different behavioral trait. Again this is a very simplistic view of a very complex situation. I'm just trying to explain how balls might matter as to the behavioral expression even in EU ....

On your theory the "Overwhelming majority" of females will also not hunt or mine, merely stay at the service centre looking after the noobs, colouring and crafting...
Men of course seldom craft or colour, as their nature is to be out hunting and pk'ing.

Dont be so ridiculous.

Just like irl we are a very diverse population. Wether your male - female, a pirate or not, we are all here for one reason - beacuse we enjoy the game. We choose to do what ever we find fun.


We have had this conversation before, you know I have a penchant for PvP. I am a very "girly girl" yet pk in space and have my Disintigrator 5000 player kills achievment. Its got nothing to do with testosterone, no matter how much youd like that to be true.


Next time you go pigeonholing all of us into our genetically predifined occupations and characteristics, look at your demograph a bit better.


or better yet... lets do this like "men" - meet me in space

 

[Spawn]

Ah Infinity, you truely live up to your name, as you archaic nonsensical pop psychology proposals seems as if they really do go on into infinity....



Nature vs Nurture debate, we get it!! It's been debated to its death (no pun intended).

Oh here we go... Infinity, you know I have refrained from being baited into biting to your sexist and riduculous remarks, however your generalising sweeping statments have gone too far.



On your theory the "Overwhelming majority" of females will also not hunt or mine, merely stay at the service centre looking after the noobs, colouring and crafting...
Men of course seldom craft or colour, as their nature is to be out hunting and pk'ing.

Dont be so ridiculous.

Just like irl we are a very diverse population. Wether your male - female, a pirate or not, we are all here for one reason - beacuse we enjoy the game. We choose to do what ever we find fun.


We have had this conversation before, you know I have a penchant for PvP. I am a very "girly girl" yet pk in space and have my Disintigrator 5000 player kills achievment. Its got nothing to do with testosterone, no matter how much youd like that to be true.


Next time you go pigeonholing all of us into our genetically predifined occupations and characteristics, look at your demograph a bit better.


or better yet... lets do this like "men" - meet me in space

Infinity got one thing right though.
It doesn't take much to erase your good reputation by claiming you like pvp in space.
Because whether you like it or not, a lot of us view piracy as theft... or worse


http://news1.ghananation.com/intern...r-parents-yacht-attacked-in-indian-ocean.html

 

[dr3w]

Infinity got one thing right though.
It doesn't take much to erase your good reputation by claiming you like pvp in space.
Because whether you like it or not, a lot of us view piracy as theft... or worse

And whether you like it or not - it's big part of EU, allowed by game mechanics and rules.

I don't like resellers and AH-zombies, also players who playing by whole "families", abusing amount of AH slots, selling their crafted shit, dumping MU lower and lower of it, - but they "legal" cuz they can send any ID's of their "playing" granny, mommy, daddy, brother, sister & dog with hamster. Their reputation for me is out of any charts in negative.

Resellers and AH-zombies (take mining resources, for example) - just look at AH, - resources listed by miners is just 10% - another 90% is those scumbags, always undercutting eachother since they doesn't care about MU.

True pirates, PK'ers, compared to them is:

 

[Jimmy B]

If you commit a theft IRL, you should be caught and sent to prison.

In this video game MindArk endorses such criminal activity and allows people who like and enjoy stealing from others, do so and get away with it.

Comparisons with real-life crime miss the mark completely. Lootable PvP areas are places you enter knowing it is legal for someone else to try and loot you. It is a mutual consent competition; nothing more, nothing less. Many of us choose to avoid it, or travel carrying nothing lootable. Those who carry loot, know the risks.

Same as a game of poker, where all who enter do so with the aim to win the other players' money. Again, a mutual consent competition.

 

[SashaSD]

Infinity got one thing right though.
It doesn't take much to erase your good reputation by claiming you like pvp in space.
Because whether you like it or not, a lot of us view piracy as theft... or worse

This is a very small minded point of view if you don't mind me pointing out. I Don't particualy enjoy PVP (although I was tarnished by somebody I considered a friend because I used to be in Tax Collectors; incidentley I was in Tax because I had some friends in the soc not because I PVP'd) and all this person did was prove that they were not a trustworthy player because of their actions against me. The irony is they treated me badley because of same small minded perspective they share with you, the outcome of what they did was not to hurt my reputation (I do that on my own) but to hurt theirs and act in the way they claimed to dislike! please stand back and look at your prejudice. Daming peoples reputations because they do not share your point of view is unkind and a little harsh. Can't we all get along and hug and just stay away from things that anoy us

Comparisons with real-life crime miss the mark completely. Lootable PvP areas are places you enter knowing it is legal for someone else to try and loot you. It is a mutual consent competition; nothing more, nothing less. Many of us choose to avoid it, or travel carrying nothing lootable. Those who carry loot, know the risks.

Same as a game of poker, where all who enter do so with the aim to win the other players' money. Again, a mutual consent competition.

This is the truest thing I have ever read regarding PVP, you shold be a modirtor or something

 

[Spawn]

Daming peoples reputations because they do not share your point of view is unkind and a little harsh. Can't we all get along and hug and just stay away from things that anoy us

Stealing peoples money is unkind and more than a little harsh. I will not hug a person who stole from me or another player in this universe.
"you choose to go through lootable space, mutual consent bla di bla."
there is no choice. you cannot go around lootable space, unlike pvp lootable areas on planets... it has been discussed over and over, not about to do it again. My choice is simple: I will not buy goods that come from people who openly say they shoot people and loot them in space. I can not respect people who act like that.
Yes the game's setup to allow this kind of criminal behaviour. You can also legally buy a real gun in the real world. Does not mean you can get away with killing others.

 

[dr3w]

Stealing peoples money is unkind and more than a little harsh. I will not hug a person who stole from me or another player in this universe.
Yes the game's setup to allow this kind of criminal behaviour. You can also buy a real gun in the real world.

Also, you can go in the night at (write most criminal place you know here) with pockets full of cash. Who is more "cool" in that case - criminals or their prey?

Also, any player, who somehow profit in that game - stealing money of others, innit?

Also, Caly's PK'er have decay, etc - thus make a bit of profit... for all land deed holders? They now earn blood money?

So, maybe there is some stuff besides of black&white vision?

 

[Spawn]

Also, you can go in the night at (write most criminal place you know here) with pockets full of cash. Who is more "cool" in that case - criminals or their prey?

A friend of mine once got arrested because he didn't lock his bicycle before he entered the mall. He was alledgedly giving criminals cause to steal his bike. He fought it in court and won, because the bike simply was his and nobody should touch it, whether it's locked or not.
I girl dressed in a mini-skirt does not want to get sexually abused, she just wants to look pretty... same argument.

Also, any player, who somehow profit in that game - stealing money of others, innit?

Also, Caly's PK'er have decay, etc - thus make a bit of profit... for all land deed holders? They now earn blood money?

So, maybe there is some stuff besides of black&white vision?

Sorry but these aren't really arguments, not commenting.

 

[dr3w]

Sorry but these aren't really arguments, not commenting.

Oh yeah. Sure! Got some Land Deeds? (smile.jpg)

 

[Spawn]

Oh yeah. Sure! Got some Land Deeds? (smile.jpg)

ok then , if you insist.

Calypso pk is pk of choice. you can choose to go there, you can also choose to go around it, you can choose to enter a ring, or choose to walk around it. You can't even enter lootable pvp without getting a toxic shot. you can go to point a to point b around a red pvp area with ease.THERE IS NO CHOICE IN SPACE
If i could pay 50 ped for a tp to another planet and avoid pvp lootable space completely, I would. It would save me a lot of time I do not like spending in lootable space.

 

[dr3w]

ok then , if you insist.

Calypso pk is pk of choice. you can choose to go there, you can also choose to go around it, you can choose to enter a ring, or choose to walk around it. THERE IS NO CHOICE IN SPACE

Bullshit.

Motherships now 99.99% invincible.

 

[Spawn]

Bullshit.

Motherships now 99.99% invincible.

a mothership doesnt fly through lootable space? I do not need to enter lootable space? or leave it? it costs me a total price of 50 ped planet tp to planet tp? it will cost me the same amount of time as a tp would?

 

[dr3w]

If i could pay 50 ped for a tp to another planet and avoid pvp lootable space completely, I would. It would save me a lot of time I do not like spending in lootable space.

Discussed many times.

And by that 50 ped - render all that big spaceships completelly useless, make another planets - another LAs, kill diversity of prices, possibility of good, profitable economy, kill all those nice ideas just by 50 ped.

 

[lyosha]

why is this even an issue?

almost all mmorpg's have some sort of "lootable pvp", its a good thing, brings a whole new playerbase, not just the bored, rich, carebears and whiners.

Its just a GAME, not reall life, in reall life you couldnt walk arround with a bigass bazooka on your shoulder, drive your dune buggy through town like a bat outa-hell, or fly/land your aircraft anywhere you want to, you also would never in your right mind go out on a fishing trip to the Horn of Africa or any other pirate infested watters right? right.

Its just a freaking game, if you want to compare it to real life.... whats wrong with your headbrain?

• if you dont wanna be looted, dont bring loot.
• if you bring loot and you dont like high chance of being looted... pay the extra ped and get a warp (thats what they are there for).
• if you bring loot and you dont like the low chance of being looted on a MS... dont go to space?

if your crying about TT dmg to your vehicle....
let me go find a violin and call the whaaaaaambulance

 

[lyosha]

If i could pay 50 ped for a tp to another planet and avoid pvp lootable space completely, I would. It would save me a lot of time I do not like spending in lootable space.

im sure you could get a warp for 50ped.

 

[Audrey Cheerful]

THERE IS NO CHOICE IN SPACE

The choice is to bring lootables or not. I agree that you don't have a choice when it comes to a few potential (!) PECs of decay on your ship, tho.

 

[Spawn]

why is this even an issue?

almost all mmorpg's have some sort of "lootable pvp", its a good thing, brings a whole new playerbase, not just the bored, rich, carebears and whiners.

Its just a GAME, not reall life, in reall life you couldnt walk arround with a bigass bazooka on your shoulder, drive your dune buggy through town like a bat outa-hell, or fly/land your aircraft anywhere you want to, you also would never in your right mind go out on a fishing trip to the Horn of Africa or any other pirate infested watters right? right.

Its just a freaking game, if you want to compare it to real life.... whats wrong with your headbrain?

• if you dont wanna be looted, dont bring loot.
• if you bring loot and you dont like high chance of being looted... pay the extra ped and get a warp (thats what they are there for).
• if you bring loot and you dont like the low chance of being looted on a MS... dont go to space?

if your crying about TT dmg to your vehicle....
let me go find a violin and call the whaaaaaambulance

Here are the flaws in your reasoning..... Real cash economy, theft of real assets, not just a game but real withdrawable cash

Some people just don't like pvp and do not wish to spend time in it, in project entropia you always had a choice.

.. dont go to space? --- that's not a choice.

 

[dr3w]

a mothership doesnt fly through lootable space? I do not need to enter lootable space? or leave it? it costs me a total price of 50 ped planet tp to planet tp? it will cost me the same amount of time as a tp would?

Let's not start that shit again, please?

Show me just one person, who got caught in lootable PVP, when pirates destroyed at least one mothership with their current SIs, and where crew wasn't able to defend that MS.

Show me precedent. And yes - cheaper than 50 ped.

True problem not in the risk (there is no risk, if you call 0.01% a risk - remember latest MA fuckups with HoF of Jas AP - you have MUCH more chances to simply lost all your inventory right now, due to some bug)

 

[Cerberus]

Also, any player, who somehow profit in that game - stealing money of others, innit?

There's positive and negative redistribution of wealth.
When you sell ores, or craft components, or even trade fat stacks of ore you provide a positive service. As such people will pay you what they feel this service is worth. It's not stealing because if noone wants it, you just have to stop doing it.

A negative service on the other hand is one that adds absolutely nothing but still redistributes wealth. In essence noone would pay you for your services, and since your service has a maintenance cost, the net wealth goes down due to your actions. In a purely objective sense you're making the world a worse place. The services that go into this category are price fixing, scamming and pirating.

 

[Spawn]

The choice is to bring lootables or not. I agree that you don't have a choice when it comes to a few potential (!) PECs of decay on your ship, tho.

totally missing the point. You won't ever see me in a red area on calypso, because I simply choose to go around it. I will never fly over a red area ( don't even know if my toxic shot still works i got in 2005). I will always avoid lootable areas on calypso, because I DON'T LIKE LOOTABLE PVP. So I avoid that aspect of gameplay, which I simply don't like (and detest tbh)

the choice not to go to space is no choice at all. I got shot a lot already but that's all beside the point. the point is I CAN NOT AVOID LOOTABLE SPACE if i want to go to another planet. And then there's the timeloss. you get shot and you need to fly the whole damn 15 mins again, only to be shot again.

 

[Spawn]

im sure you could get a warp for 50ped.

So how do I get to the planet? through lootable space?

 

[dr3w]

The services that go into this category are price fixing, scamming and pirating.

Pirating (also enlargement of space), it's just forced diversification of planets, you surely understand that.

And this is the BEST thing for whole EU economy, so-called "unbalanced, unhealthy" market. Lootable space is only the reason for that.

 

[lyosha]

Here are the flaws in your reasoning..... Real cash economy, theft of real assets, not just a game but real withdrawable cash

sure its an RCE, but in other games what is looted is worth real money, i.e. in everquest 2 you can have your platinum looted, that can be sold on the exchange or ebay for reall cash, other games might not be RCE but they still have reall cash value.

Some people just don't like pvp and do not wish to spend time in it, in project entropia you always had a choice.

.. dont go to space? --- that's not a choice.

and you do have a choice, you have a choice NOT to go into toxic zones, you have a choice NOT to bring your loot with you, you have a choice to get a warp.

 

[Rowdoc]

This thread is really silly , space has pvp areas & it's a game , get over it or get a Wii

I say this a quad pilot who has been looted several times & enjoyed the fun. The biggest problem with space is not pirates but how big it is now