Auction Fees & Space Thrusters

raffieltiger

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Raff Tiger
I can't believe that MA thought it would be a good idea to charge before placing an auction.

Now I have spent roughly 30 ped trying to sell stuff that didn't sell, specifically including a Space Thruster.

Why can't it charge you after you actually sell it? (Or at least reserve some ped from your card to pay for it?).

I am successfully cycling ped when I actually sell stuff, when I don't, it costs me money just to list it.

Also, now that Space Thrusters are so abundant, you can't even sell them for 300 ped, considering that I bought one for 342. And the one before that for over 400 ped.

The most for one is 270 on Arkadia.

It's a catch-22, I can't sell my Space Thruster because I can't afford it, and even when I can, I get significantly less because there's so many of them all over the place.

I preferred when there weren't so many, and space was a privilege, but now it's a gimmicky way for MA to draw more money out of every single player.

Sure, they made Calypso and the technology, but that doesn't give them the right to artificially destroy the Space Thruster market on Arkadia.

Looking at the auctions for Space Thrusters, Calypso is crushing Arkadia's market and making Arkadians sell their thrusters for less, because of the inflation that MA created.

Too much supply and not enough demand causes prices to drop.

And before any of you say I should deposit more, a Space Thruster is the only thing in my inventory that is worth a decent amount (ie >100ped).

I need to sell that so I can prepare for mining in August on Arkadia.

The only thing I can think of is to make the Space Thrusters UL, because the price is dropping rapidly, and I'm not selling it for like 150, more than a 100% loss.

Or are people really stingey now that Space is out?.
 
You DO realize that the actual value of the thruster in the eyes of MA is its TT Value, right?

Markup is something determined by the players, and a decent percentage of them knew that the MU on the thrusters would fall significantly once they became more common.

And somehow it doesn't make great financial sense to make a whole new subsystem for Entropia, with so many servers and resources spent on the project, just to keep it for the "privileged" in order for it to suit speculators.
 
If you set the start bid close to TT then the upfront fee is minimal - around 0.5 ped. Then you'll only pay the fee on MU if it manages to sell.

MA have the right to do almost anything they want but in this case there's nothing wrong that I can see.

Like it or not the price of thrusters is dropping and will continue to do so. It was always going to drop because thats what happens with new stuff. I waited to buy one till price dropped under 200 ped and I still paid more than they go for now. If you bought early you probably paid too much. If you bought to resell then bzzzt bad move. If you craft them then u are still making heaps over craft cost.

So you can either use the thrusters yourself or suck it up and recoup whatever you can by selling for a realistic price.

KikkiJikki
 
You buy thrusters at over-inflated prices soon after they are introduced (which happens on all new stuff) and now you can't resell them for the same amount....and that is MA's fault, how?

I'd suggest you drop them at whatever price you can get for them now, as price is probably going a lot lower....
 
Yesterday I managed to pick up a thruster for 100ped BO from the auction and I can see them dropping even further... All I can say is welcome to a RCE..

~xXx
 
Welcome to Entropia, my friend.

Important Tip: When new items are released, especially (L) crafted items, just a few BPs drop in the beginning. Those who are crafting those items in the beginning then know that scarcity is their friend, and placing them for ENORMOUS markups on the market will usually sell them quickly as the ped-flush players step in to buy.

Over time this price drops. Sometimes it keeps dropping, and newly introduced items cause even more downward pressure.

I bought several vehicles at 800.00 peds and I could probably barely sell them for 140.00 peds each right now. It's just the name of the game. If you want to buy early, you're going to pay for it. It wasn't MindArk's fault. I chose to pay that much above markup. MindArk set the value at the TT value, and from there on out it was out of their hands.

When I bought my thruster, I paid 415.00 peds for it, and knew it was expensive, and overpriced, so I started running passenger flights to help defray the cost.

Buying (L) crafted products early in the production cycle so that you can hold onto them and sell them later for a profit is one of the most unwise tactics I can think of. And we all lose out (other than for the opportunity cost) when we buy early in the production cycle. You are not alone in this situation...
 
I preferred when there weren't so many, and space was a privilege, but now it's a gimmicky way for MA to draw more money out of every single player.

So you figure MA spent time and money making space so only a handful with PEDs to piss away could use it? Umm yeah... that's gonna make them money.

Menace
 
The lucky few who looted the BPs for the thrusters at the start have made a killing, selling for 400peds+ when the cost to craft one was about 10ped or so.I for one am glad they've dropped in price as it will open up space to the masses.:yay:
Shame you got stuck with a lose but as mack said sell now before it get even lower.
We've all been stung but the introduction of new items not knowing how many will drop and paying extra for it.i tend to wait for a couple of weeks before i purchase any new item simply for this reason.

Ps Auction fees suck:wise:
 
I can agree on the fee for listing stuff, it would be nice if they only took a fee when you sold the item.

"Space was a privilege".... no comment.

The thruster will go down to like 50 or less is me guess.
 
The auction fee isnt for selling the product, the fee is for using the acutioneer to get it seen(like using the want add in papers....you pay to list it, whether it sells or not).....as soon as you place an item there...you are using it...There have been alot of times I've never sold item...so either the items were no longer in demand, or my asking price was too high.

Sorry, I also find it hard to sympathise with someone who sell at an extremely inflated price, hoping to make a killing on fellow players.
 
Lol what on earth posessed you to buy a space truster if you don't have anything worth over 100 peds?

Like the others said, sell it now it still has some markup.
 
LOL... this only was a bad bet from a speculator.. You as a trader must to know the risks. In fact, you must not waiting Mindark do a new subsystem, only for your bussiness of speculation. Remember, if you are not more than an overcost; you must think twice before to accept the risks. No one in this universe, only could waiting benefits, without consider possible losses.
 
I can't believe that MA thought it would be a good idea to charge before placing an auction.

Now I have spent roughly 30 ped trying to sell stuff that didn't sell, specifically including a Space Thruster.

You clearly placed the items in the auction with to high markup. And this auction fee before you sell is intended to stop Market manupulation otherwise you could just keep listing everything way overpriced untill it eventualy sells while buying everything under that value.

We all knew from past experiance that the market value of a new item that is required inorder to do something will beging highly overpriced and drop in value over the next few months till it reaches its min value and then stay roughtly there. Thinking that a 5 ped item will remain with such a high price was niheeve on your part.


Also, now that Space Thrusters are so abundant, you can't even sell them for 300 ped, considering that I bought one for 342. And the one before that for over 400 ped.

The most for one is 270 on Arkadia.

It's a catch-22, I can't sell my Space Thruster because I can't afford it, and even when I can, I get significantly less because there's so many of them all over the place.

This is how the market has always been. You pay a premium price for something that is quite new. I bought mine for 170PED and still think I payed to much for it but it was urgent that I get one of them so I did.


Or are people really stingey now that Space is out?.

Players have and will always undercut other Players on overpriced items if they need cash.
 
if there were no upfront fee, the auction would be saturated with every single item and stack ever looted. it discourages use of the auction and encourage PvP trades which creates a better game dynamic.

also, if you used the auction as if it was one, this would be an issue: pay the 0.5 fee at tt and let the bidding rise up to the market rate. by setting a high start bid you (ab)use the auction system as a shop and pay a higher upfront fee for the privilage.

the thrusters are of course dropping in value as said because the number of BP drop increase. this is a predictable outcome of the system of (L), we've seen it before especially with vehicles. the demand is also high at first as people want to try out the new features. having done so they are no interested in buy another or selling theres on, prices drop as a result. if you want to sell with out fee, PvP trade. if you want to ensure a sale, dont set a high start bid. simples.
 
You DO realize that the actual value of the thruster in the eyes of MA is its TT Value, right?

Markup is something determined by the players, and a decent percentage of them knew that the MU on the thrusters would fall significantly once they became more common.

And somehow it doesn't make great financial sense to make a whole new subsystem for Entropia, with so many servers and resources spent on the project, just to keep it for the "privileged" in order for it to suit speculators.

Do you realize that this story of MU determinated by players is just crazy????? it s MA controlling the resources and loot that determinate if an item is rare or not and in this way it controls also the MU of each item.
 
it s MA controlling the resources and loot that determinate if an item is rare or not and in this way it controls also the MU of each item.

Yes, but remember that Mindark can protect an item used to something that Mindark believes will be valuable to people. But if people are not so interested. As has been the case (Pay so much to go a PVP, is not so atractive). The OP made a bet very difficult to win, and lost it, plain and simple.
 
Yes, but remember that Mindark can protect an item used to something that Mindark believes will be valuable to people. But if people are not so interested. As has been the case (Pay so much to go a PVP, is not so atractive). The OP made a bet very difficult to win, and lost it, plain and simple.

ofc, it s just that this story that MU his totally MA indipendent is really boring me. It s becoming like the air, around you, that you don t feel, don t see you just know that is there and it s true..............people is accepting that MU is just determinated by users like a real rule, wehn the reality is very far to be so.
 
You do realise that thrusters are very new and their still falling to their real value right?
 
Do you realize that this story of MU determinated by players is just crazy????? it s MA controlling the resources and loot that determinate if an item is rare or not and in this way it controls also the MU of each item.
The question is, do you really *need* the rare stuff to play?
If not, then it's the illusion some have that they *need* the stuff that is rare
that causes high MU on rare stuff... ;)
Ofc it's players that determine MU, it's the level of "greed" that determine
of what price someone are willing to sell rare stuff... ;)
 
The question is, do you really *need* the rare stuff to play?
If not, then it's the illusion some have that they *need* the stuff that is rare
that causes high MU on rare stuff... ;)
Ofc it's players that determine MU, it's the level of "greed" that determine
of what price someone are willing to sell rare stuff... ;)

To the point.
 
Thrusters will certainly fall much further soon, under 50 ped, even that is still outrageous(1000%). They should be no more then 10 ped(200%). Even 200% is high considering the materials used.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Joat View Post
The question is, do you really *need* the rare stuff to play?
If not, then it's the illusion some have that they *need* the stuff that is rare
that causes high MU on rare stuff...
Ofc it's players that determine MU, it's the level of "greed" that determine
of what price someone are willing to sell rare stuff...

To the point.

rare items????? so MA open the space you need the trusted whatever is the name to go in the space and are the players that decide what you need and no MA.............. i guess i have nothing to add.
 
Quote Originally Posted by Joat View Post
The question is, do you really *need* the rare stuff to play?
If not, then it's the illusion some have that they *need* the stuff that is rare
that causes high MU on rare stuff...
Ofc it's players that determine MU, it's the level of "greed" that determine
of what price someone are willing to sell rare stuff...

To the point.

rare items????? so MA open the space you need the trusted whatever is the name to go in the space and are the players that decide what you need and no MA.............. i guess i have nothing to add.
Don't mix up stuff you *want* to have with stuff you *need* to have.

A example:
A friend of mine don't *need* a thruster, but he sure as hell *want* one.
I own the only one. It's now up to me to decide if I want to sell for 105%, 4k% or whatever.
Don't blame MA if I sell it for 4k when I can sell it for 104% or whatever.

I as a seller decide what the MU will be, no matter how rare or common the stuff is.

Way too many mix up what is needed to play, and what is wanted to play...
 
Don't mix up stuff you *want* to have with stuff you *need* to have.

A example:
A friend of mine don't *need* a thruster, but he sure as hell *want* one.
I own the only one. It's now up to me to decide if I want to sell for 105%, 4k% or whatever.
Don't blame MA if I sell it for 4k when I can sell it for 104% or whatever.

I as a seller decide what the MU will be, no matter how rare or common the stuff is.

Way too many mix up what is needed to play, and what is wanted to play...

you don t even need to play in this case!!!

i would like also apology for this offtopic.

DC
 
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... considering the material costs which are...

1 Iron
1 Ares Powder
1 Simple II conductors
Energy residue to fill tt of thruster

seeing this, its clear where MA intend the thrusters to go - into just about every vtol there is. just a matter of BP drops to keep a little control, doubt they will be too uncommon.
 
Welcome to Entropia, my friend.

Important Tip: When new items are released, especially (L) crafted items, just a few BPs drop in the beginning. Those who are crafting those items in the beginning then know that scarcity is their friend, and placing them for ENORMOUS markups on the market will usually sell them quickly as the ped-flush players step in to buy.

Over time this price drops. Sometimes it keeps dropping, and newly introduced items cause even more downward pressure.

I bought several vehicles at 800.00 peds and I could probably barely sell them for 140.00 peds each right now. It's just the name of the game. If you want to buy early, you're going to pay for it. It wasn't MindArk's fault. I chose to pay that much above markup. MindArk set the value at the TT value, and from there on out it was out of their hands.

When I bought my thruster, I paid 415.00 peds for it, and knew it was expensive, and overpriced, so I started running passenger flights to help defray the cost.

Buying (L) crafted products early in the production cycle so that you can hold onto them and sell them later for a profit is one of the most unwise tactics I can think of. And we all lose out (other than for the opportunity cost) when we buy early in the production cycle. You are not alone in this situation...
Other than for the opportunity cost?

Here're some of my speculations...

Space Thrusters:
1) Crafters make a profit at first by setting a high MU in response to the scarcity (+)
2) People looking for fun buy em because they like to do things first (-)
3) Hunters buy them so they can get items in space
4) Pilots get em to transport players and set a high MU in response to scarcity (+)
5) People want to figure out space and the costs involved so they can capitalize on the newness factor (-/+)

It's debatable what's more profitable than 1), but I would think that being the first to do something isn't just about losing, it might also be about getting the items first so you can set a very high MU. How is that different than being one of hte first crafters so that you can set a very high MU? The only difference is that you're a hunter or a pilot and you're one of the first to do a line of work or to sell a piece of loot.

I'm sure there's an upfront cost for everyone as they're new to everything. They have to figure out how it works. But once they figure out the costs and methods then they can set a MU to profit from it.

This reminds me of my grandfather(s) when they immigrated to america on a ocean going ship and landed in the harbor I think at New York. Not too long before land was given away free in many parts of the country. This land at that time wasn't worth much but there were trees and access to rivers and so on. They came here because there wasn't good work in their home countries. There was a lot here by comparison. Nothing is guaranteed, though. Many of the people in the frontier would abandon properties to go elsewhere for work. But if they managed ot hold onto that land then its value would increase substantially. That land after 50 to 100 years had a lot of value. They benefited by being one of hte first peoples on this virgin land. I wonder if something similar happens in EU. It's not a surprise that people go after new things and (even) make profits.

I'd be interested to sometime look at the real world and see how people profit from virgin things.

I mean, people love shiny new things that look interesting...

And hte best time to exploit someone is when they have that gleeful glint in their eye...

I mean, the last thing you exploit is a man that has just been exploited or is examining you carefully.
 
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just to reiterate what everyone else has said.... i still haven't bought a thruster, and probably won't until they are about 25ped, which is still 500% mu, a lot compared to most everything else L. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop even lower than that in a month or so.

that is just how it works here... for example

when the first vehicles came out, i was one of the lucky ones who got a free valk.... i ended up selling it for 500ped on the first day, now they are closer to 50ped.

i also made a killing selling blazars for 1ped and then 50pec each, now they are 1000 for 3ped, or something like that.

when vu10.0 came out, i sold my vast store of sweat for 10ped per 1k, now it is like 2ped/1k.

to avoid feeling like you got jipped in the future, just be patient when new things come out, or jump on the bandwagon and craft/acquire them yourself for some easy profits.
 
psst, as a shopowner I don't have to pay an auction fee when I sell stuff when I'm not online since I just sell through my shop. If you hate paying auction fees like it seems you do, perhaps you should save up enough ped to buy a booth, a shop, or a shopkeeper and an apartment to put it in...

;) :)
 
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